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Featured WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Briefcase, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Briefcase

    Briefcase New Member

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    In Revelation 17:5, the Harlot appears as “Babylon the Great.”

    She is repeatedly called “The Great City.”

    We then encounter the phrase “the great city” in

    Revelation 11:8And their dead bodies will lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY which is mystically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.”

    Two things to consider.

    1. There is only one city throughout the Bible which is referred to as Sodom and Egypt and guess which city IT IS NOT? IT IS NOT ROME.

    But the Bible does refer metaphorically to on multiple occasions Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt.

    2. Notice the last 6 words of Revelation 11:8 “WHERE ALSO THEIR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.”

    Jesus was NOT crucified in Rome.

    Jesus WAS crucified in Jerusalem.

    Therefore, The Harlot, and Babylon can be none other than Jerusalem NOT Rome.

    Revelation 18:24 says “In her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and saints.”

    This same language appears in Revelation 16:6, 17:6, and 18:21 and 18:24. John is making the same statements as Jesus made in Luke 11:50-51.

    Luke 11:50-51:In order that the blood of all the prophets, she’d since the foundation of the world may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.”

    Rome never killed an Old Testament prophet as per Revelation 18:24, but Jerusalem certainly did.

    The New Testament shows over and over the Jewish persecution of the prophets (Matt. 23:29-37; Luke 6:23-26; Luke 11:47-50; Luke 13:34; Romans 11:3; 1Thessalonians 2:15; and Hebrews 11:32-38.)

    The Harlot being drunk on the blood of the saints and prophets ONLY fits Jerusalem.

    Last thing: Even the Harlot’s attire provides evidence of Jerusalem.

    Revelation 17:4 The woman was clothed in "PURPLE AND SCARLET...”

    Revelation 18:6 “Woe, woe, the great city clothed in fine linen and PURPLE and SCARLET...”

    Notice the clothing of the Harlot is the exact clothing required of the priests who served in the Temple in Jerusalem (Exodus 28:4-5 and also verses 8-9.)

    This attire of the harlot also matches the decor of the Temple (Exodus 26:1).

    Lastly notice the harlot has headgear (Revelation 17:5)

    And so did the High Priest who served in the Old Testament Temple (Exodus 28:36 -38).

    The Harlot and Babylon again only fits Jerusalem and NOT ROME!


    Most that identify Rome as Babylon do so because of the phrase “the city on 7 hills” and Rome certainly was known as the city on 7 hills, but what most don’t know or either forget is that Jerusalem was known first as the city on 7 hills.
    1. The Mount of Olives
    2. Mount Scopus
    3. Mount of Corruption
    4. Original Mount Zion/called Temple Mount
    5. The New Mount Zion/called Western Hill
    6. Mount Ophel
    7. Antonia Fortress Hill
     
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  2. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    start over in your study

    first identify the "HARLOT" then go on from there
     
  3. Briefcase

    Briefcase New Member

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    Did you not read my post? I let the scripture identify the harlot. DONE!
     
  4. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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  5. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Yes I did that is why I responded

    Let the bible explain the symbols used in prophecy not your interpertation
     
  6. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The harlot rides the beast. It is Jerusalem. She was once the Bride then turned from The Messiah and was left desolate.
     
  7. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    scripture to prove your statement please
     
  8. Briefcase

    Briefcase New Member

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  9. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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  10. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "How is the faithful city become a harlot!" (Isaiah 1:21)
    Once a faithful city, she (Jerusalem) has fornicated herself with the Kings of the earth. Three apostate descriptions are used for Jerusalem; woman,harlot and whore, when she commits spiritual fornication. Fornication and adultery are used in the Bible in both the physical and the spiritual sense as God considered the chosen people as His Bride.
    God said of the city, "How is the faithful city become a harlot!" (Isaiah 1:21). Israel, was set apart from all other peoples to be holy for His purpose of bring in the Messiah. They had entered into unholy, adulterous alliances with idols while aligning herself with such nations. She had "committed adultery with stones and with stocks [idols]" (Jeremiah 3:9); "and with their idols have they committed adultery" (Ezekiel 23:37).The entire chapter of Ezekiel 16 explains Israel's spiritual adultery in detail, both with heathen nations and with their false gods.

    This is why Jerusalem fits in the Revelation narrative as the woman who rides the beast. As far as Babylon, this is Israel, hence "the whore of Babylon". The Beast is the nation that Jerusalem fornicates with.

    By the way, I am a partial Preterist so I believe most of this has been fulfilled in the first century.
     
  11. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    If the harlot is Jerusalem then what city does this represent
    Revelation 12:1
    And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
     
  12. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    As my avatar says I am a Historicist
     
  13. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is the same woman, Jerusalem, before she fornicated. If you follow her through Revelation you see she was once with God but when you get to Revelation 17 she becomes apostate. Here is the progression: (note the key word "wilderness" same woman)

    Revelation 12:6

    And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore
    Revelation 12:14
    And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
    Revelation 17:3
    So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
     
  14. Briefcase

    Briefcase New Member

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    He carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, and upon her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth.” I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. (Rev. 17:3-6)

    The Great Harlot that John sees riding the Beast is first century Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, the home of the Temple of God. Let me show you the evidence.

    The first line of evidence that Jerusalem is the Harlot is the perfect correspondence with Revelation’s theme. John writes Revelation as a prophecy of Christ’s judgment against those who “pierced him” (Rev. 1:7) The New Testament repeatedly emphasizes Israel’s covenantal culpability in Christ’s death. Paul, a Hebrew of the Hebrews (Phil. 3:5), observes regarding the Jews: they “Both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men” (1Thess. 2:15). Consequently, he notes “the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost” (1 Thess. 2:16).

    We must understand that this theme of judgment on Israel is limited to first century Israel. Revelation specifically mentions the Treading down of her Temple---which no longer exists (it was destroyed in AD 70) and has not existed for 2000 plus years (Rev. 11:1-2; Luke 21:20-24).

    Since the Harlot represents first century Jerusalem, this fits perfectly with John’s “must shortly come to pass” time statements (Rev. 1:1-3; 22:6, 10). This also perfectly fits Jesus’ denunciation of the first century Jews, when he calls them an “adulterous generation” (Matt. 12:39; 16:4; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29).

    He repeatedly rebukes the first century Jews in “this generation” (Matt. 11:16-19) as an “evil generation” (Matt. 12:41-45), an “unbelieving and perverted generation” (Matt. 17:17), and “a wicked generation” (Luke 11:29).

    He emphatically prophesies that “all the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God: yes I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation” (Luke 11:50-51).


    In Revelation, the Harlot appears as “Babylon the Great” (Rev. 17:5). She is repeatedly called “the great city” (Rev. 16:19; 17:18; 18:10, 16, 18, 21).

    Revelation 11:8: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Here, “the great city” is specifically tied to the place “where also their Lord was crucified.” This must refer to Jerusalem, for that is the historical site of Christ’s crucifixion (Luke 13:33; Matt. 23:34-37).


    How lonely sits the city that was full of people! She has become like a widow who was once great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces has become a forced laborer! (Lam. 1:1)

    John even uses Jeremiah’s widow imagery from Lamentations in his description of the Harlot:

    To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning, for she says in her heart, “I sit as queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.” (Rev. 18:7)

    Jerusalem fits the concept of a “great city” covenentally and historically. In Revelation, she appears as the “great city” and the “Great Harlot.”

    John frequently presents the Harlot to his reader as “filled with the blood of the saints.”

    In her was found the blood of prophets and saints and all who have been slain on the earth. (Rev. 18:24)

    This same language appears in Revelation 16:6; 17:6, and 18:21, 24. John is apparently reflecting on a statement made by Christ to the leaders of Israel:

    In order that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation. (Luke 11:50-51)

    Not only is the language strikingly similar, but the time frames match: John speaks of events that “must shortly take place,” while Jesus speaks of this judgment occurring in “this generation.”

    Israel’s persecution against Christians recurs throughout the Bible.

    I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and putting both men and women into prisons, as also the high priest and all the Council of the elders can testify. From them I also received letters to the brethren, and started off for Damascus in order to bring even those who were there to Jerusalem as prisoners to be punished. (Acts 22:4-5; see also the following chapters in Acts: 4-9; 11-14; 17-26).

    Stephen denounces Israel with these words:

    You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit. You are doing just as your fathers did. Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become. (Acts 7:51-52)

    In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus mentions Israel’s persecution of the prophets:

    Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matt. 5:12)

    The New Testament returns over and over to the theme of Jewish persecution of the prophets. (Matt. 23:29-37; Luke 6:23-26; 11:47-50; 13:34; Romans 11:3; 1Thess. 2:15; and Heb11:32-38) The Harlot’s being drunk on the blood of the saints and prophets well fits Israel’s history.


    Stephen charged Israel with breach of covenantal Law: You “received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it” (Acts 7:53) In all of this, we must remember Jesus came to his own and his own did not receive him (John 1:11). This is Jesus’ message in Matthew 23:37-38:

    Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! (Matt. 23:37-38)

    The whole book of Hebrews lays out the heightened failure of the Jewish rejection of Christ.

    Anyone who has set the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, Vengeance is Mine, I will repay. The Lord will judge His people. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Heb. 10:28-31)

    Israel’s failure is so great that John presents her as the Great Harlot drunk on the blood of God’s people! So not only is she guilty of “piercing” the Messiah (Rev. 1:7), she is unrepentant and even exacerbates her rebellion by attacking His followers.

    John provides two short, but revealing statements about the harlot’s garments.

    The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality. (Rev. 17:4)

    Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls. (Rev 18:16)

    Her dress reflects her covenantal status as a kingdom of priests, particularly reminding the first century reader of Jerusalem’s central Temple and its prominent High Priest (note his great authority in Acts 23:4). In Exodous 28 we read of the High Priest’s ritual attire:

    These are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a tunic of checkered work, a turban, a sash, and holy garments for Aaron your brother and his sons, that he may minister as priest to me. They shall take the blue and purple and scarlet material and the fine linen…the skillfully woven band, which is on it, shall be like its workmanship, of the same material: of gold, blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen. (Exo. 28:4-5; 8-9)

    This attire also matches the décor of the Temple.

    You shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twisted linen and blue and purple and scarlet material, you shall make them with the cherubim, the work of a skillful workman. (Exo. 26:1)

    The Old Testament descrition of the Temple points out that the altar (which received the blood of sacrifices, Exo 24:6; 29:12; Lev. 1:5) was gold---like the cup from which the Harlot drank the blood of the saints:

    The whole altar which was by the inner sanctuary he overlaid with gold (1 Kgs. 6:22)

    In fact, the Temple contained numerous gold utensils:

    Let the gold and silver utensils of the temple of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be returned and brought to their places in the temple in Jerusalem, and you shall put them and them in the house of God. (Ezra 6:5)

    The historian Josephus gives us an eyewitness description of the first century Temple, which parallels the Harlot’s dress.

    The temple’s tapestry was Babylonian tapestry in which blue, purple, scarlet, and linen were mingled. (War 5:5:4)

    The greatest part of the vessels that were put in them was of silver and gold. (War 5:4:5)

    An interesting detail regarding the Harlot’s attire regards her headgear:

    Upon her forehead a name was written, a mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlot’s and of the Abominations of the Earth. (Rev. 17:5)

    John’s focus on her forehead is significant. In the description of the High Priest in the Old Testament, we read:

    You shall make a plate of pure gold and shall engrave “Holy to the Lord”…It shall be on Aaron’s forehead, and Aaron shall take away the iniquity of the holy things which the sons of Israel consecrate, with regard to all their holy gifts, and it shall always be on his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord. (Exo. 28:36, 38)

    John dresses the Harlot in a way that draws out attention to her forehead. When we look there we see the opposite of what appears on the forehead of the High Priest, showing John’s estimation of what the Holy City, Temple of God, and priesthood have become. Interestingly, Jeremiah also mentions the harlotrous forehead of Jerusalem in Jeremiah 3:3.

    Among the prophets of Jerusalem, I have seen a horrible thing. The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood. They strengthen the hands of evildoers so that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, and her inhabitants like Gomorrah. (Jer. 23:14)

    John applies to Jerusalem names involving evil biblical associations:

    Their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified (Rev. 11:8).

    Note that he calls this city “mystically” Sodom and Egypt, but that he actually locates it at the place, “where also their Lord was crucified,” which we know is Jerusalem (Luke 9:31; 13:33; 18:31; 24:18).

    Later in Revelation, John calls Jerusalem, “Babylon.” He appears to do this because of the soon coming destruction of the Second Temple, the Temple of Jesus’ day. The first Temple had been destroyed by historical Babylon in the Old Testament (2 Kings 25:8-9; 2 Chr. 36:17-20; Ezra 5:12; Jer. 52:13). Now Jerusalem is aligned with Babylon as a Temple destroyer for causing the final destruction of the house of God.

    John structures two major female images in Revelation as positive and negative images. He names the Harlot as “Babylon the Great” and presents her evil character in Revelation 17. John also presents her destruction in chapters 18 and 19.

    He cried out in a mighty voice saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. (Rev. 18:2)

    Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come. (Rev. 18:10)

    A strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it in the sea, saying, Thus will be Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer. (Rev. 18:21)

    John now introduces a new woman. She is called the holy city, the new Jerusalem.

    I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev. 21:2)

    Elsewhere the New Testament we have the same contrast of old and new Jerusalem:

    This Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. The Jerusalem from above is free. She is our mother. (Gal. 4:25-26)

    The writer of Hebrews encourages the professing Jews to remain faithful to the Christian conversion:

    You have come to Mount Zion to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels. (Heb. 12:22)

    John records for us his experience in witnessing both the Great Harlot and the Bride from heaven. One becomes the negative image of the other:

    One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters. (Rev. 17:1)

    One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said come here and said, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. (Rev. 21:9)

    The positive-negative contrast continues with the old and new Jerusalem. The angel in both instances carries John, but to radically different environments:

    He carried me away in the spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. (Rev. 17:3)

    He carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. (Rev. 21:9)
     
  15. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    I disagree

    If the harlot is Jerusalem then who is the "mother of harlots"?
    Revelation 17:5
    And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
     
  16. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jerusalem. She was given direct access to GOD and she fornicated! She is the first and greatest apostate. OK to disagree.
    Blessings
     
  17. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Are you saying that Jerusalem is the mother of harlots? Then what other cities are harlots?
     
  18. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is a symbolic and hyperbolic representation of Jerusalem , on earth, vs the New Jerusalem above who is known as the "mother of us all".

    "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
    Galatians 4:26
     
  19. Deus Vult!

    Deus Vult! Member

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    I do not have the text in front of me, so forgive me if I paraphrase. But I do believe the text is rather clear that Babylon=Rome.
    That the pagan polytheistic culture of Rome would again subjugate the masses in the future is what I believe the text is prophetically stating.
    Rome is the city of 7 hills. You sited that this could be Jerusalem however you did not reference 7 hills in Jerusalem. The Antonia Fortress shares the Temple mount along with Solomon's Temple, correct me if I am wrong - but if I were to guess - the Fortress is only about 200 yards away from the Temple.
    The text obviously ought not to be interpreted as the actual physical city of Rome though.
    The Harlot then is:
    -Polytheism.
    -Idolatry.
    -Forced worship of created things rather than the Creator.
    -Forced worship and sacrifice to the emperor.
    -Forced apostasy of Christ.
    -Drug Abuse. Drug usage that is unlawful. Big Pharma.
    -Child Sacrifice. Abortion Industry.
    -Sexual Depravity. Sex trafficking, porn industry.

    I am Roman Catholic. A convert from Lutheranism. I do agree that in a sense you are correct it is not Rome the city itself, but it is Rome in the sense of cultural Rome.
    Furthermore, St. Peter signs off his first epistle I believe as writing from "Babylon", most Theologians and Scholars agree that this is a reference to Rome. Not Jerusalem. That said, you make great arguments about the decor of the Harlot and how it perhaps matches up with features present in Jerusalem; more accurate though is to simply understand that the Holy Spirit was impressing upon St. John the depravity of the Pharisees in that they were largely responsible for crucifying the Lord. It is the Holy Spirit adamantly expressing its displeasure with the leaders and cultures of these two cities Jerusalem and Rome. Because it is essentially these two cultures that conspired against Christ. The High Priest Caiaphas and Pilate.
     
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  20. Briefcase

    Briefcase New Member

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    The time statements of Revelation of "things which must take place soon" and "for the time is near" does not fit a future Rome, but fits 1st century Jerusalem.
     
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