Masks Are Essentially Worthless

[LostMarbels]

In other words, this is 'murica, how dare you infringe on my perceived rights when it comes to a pandemic!

They are not 'perceived'. They are inalienable. As in: "unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor."

Seems many people do not understand that.

 

[Isilwen]

The cure is worse than the virus.

Apparently, only in 'murica!

 

[Isilwen]

They are not 'perceived'. They are inalienable. As in: "unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor."

Seems many people do not understand that.

What many don't understand is that during a pandemic that same constitution does gives the government the power to enforce things such as masks for the greater good.

 

[loveofourlord]

That isn't racist, we've been calling diseases from their orgins for decades. Spanish flu, German measels, West Nile virus, Ebola, Sars etc.

Spanish flu was not from spane, and caused massive racisim and problems for spane for identifying it, it was in many other countries, except they hid that fact due to the war effort.

German measels was first identified by a german doctor and as far as I can tell thats more likly the reason for being called it.

There is also swine flu from a few years ago that led to idiots killing pigs out of fear. They stopped calling diseases after their origins and such because A) not always actually where they originate and B) causes racism and other issues. Just have to look at the people who complain about pelosi saying you could go to china town.

 

[RaymondG]

Then don't believe me. Others will because they will do the research and see that what I am saying is true.

I can only lead a horse to water...

Yes, and the OPer is leading horses to waters as well. You just deem yourself a greater leader than him. And maybe you are....maybe you are not.

The smart will choose the side that makes the most sense and follow them.

The wise, will find their own way with the help of the one who sees and knows all things.

 

[DamianWarS]

You're ignoring the studies which clearly say cloth masks don't work. It doesn't matter if everyone is wearing a cloth mask, if they don't work then they don't work. The fact that numbers are rising throughout masked Europe suggests that the mask is nothing but a placebo.

Youre ignoring the studies that show the opposite. In the end the US is on the wrong end of the numbers to be offering any valuable advice. You said your self it's politicised... well doesn't that work both ways?

 

[paul1149]

Nice cherry pick of what I posted!

Thank you.

 

[Neostarwcc]

The notion that science has determined that masks are going to save us from Chinese Coronavirus (or any other disease) is utter tosh. Anyone telling you science is settled on any issue should raise a red flag. On masks, science isn't close to settled.

The British Journal of Medicine says cloth masks are 97% useless. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

A study of the more serious 1918 flu pandemic showed masks useless. The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

Another study shows cloth masks useless compared to surgical masks. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

Other studies show cloth masks useless compared to surgical masks, even the latter are questionable. They include:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bio/23/2/23_61/_pdf/-char/en

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/0195-6701(91)90148-2/pdf

Simple Respiratory Protection—Evaluation of the Filtration Performance of Cloth Masks and Common Fabric Materials Against 20–1000 nm Size Particles

Masks are associated with oxygen deprivation and increased rates of infection according to these studies:

[Effect of a surgical mask on six minute walking distance] - PubMed

"Exercise with facemask; Are we handling a devil's sword?" - A physiological hypothesis - PubMed

Healthcare personnel exposure in an emergency department during influenza season - PubMed

The physiological impact of wearing an N95 mask during hemodialysis as a precaution against SARS in patients with end-stage renal disease - PubMed

Respiratory consequences of N95-type Mask usage in pregnant healthcare workers-a controlled clinical study - PubMed

A 2015 British study on surgical masks revealed masks don't really protect patient or surgeon very much. And that's in sterile settings. Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery

Finally, one New England Journal of Medicine editorial acknowledged the uselessness of masks but demanded universal masking nonetheless less for its placebo effect. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

There is plenty of evidence out there that masks and mask mandates aren't working and in fact are causing harm. They're a placebo to make you think you're protected and to make politicians look like they're doing something when they're in reality doing nothing.

Do your own research.

Yet surgical masks have been preventing doctors and nurses from catching illnesses for several decades (about the 1960s). Long before the corona virus the swine flu or any other epidemic siince the 60s. I wonder why if surgical masks dont work...

Seriously, they work my mother was a nurse for over 40 years. They only will not work if 1 of 3 of the following scenarios happen.

1. The doctor or nurse puts them on wrong or disposes them wrong by touching the front of it and then make contact with their mouth.
2. The mask comes off.
3. They dont wear a mask.

Those are literally the only 3 scenarios where a surgical mask will not work. Theyve been working at preventing medical personel from getting every disease since before you were probably born...(just a guess could be wrong)

I know the general public are making their own cloth masks but they're literally the same thing. They're just cheaper to make.

That being said you are right in the sense that if God wants you to have an illness and the corona virus, you're going to get it. You're not right that surgical masks are worthless. They just would get the illness another way.

 

[LostMarbels]

What many don't understand is that during a pandemic that same constitution does gives the government the power to enforce things such as masks for the greater good.

The constitution limits the governments power. It does not afford the government powers. It is literally a list of what cannot be taken from the citizenry.

Power enumerated to congress:

• levy and collect taxes,
• coin money and regulate its value,
• provide punishment for counterfeiting,
• establish post offices and roads,
• promote progress of science by issuing patents,
• create federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court,
• combat piracies and felonies,
• declare war,
• raise and support armies,
• provide and maintain a navy,
• make rules for the regulation of land and naval forces,
• exercise exclusive legislation in the District of Columbia,
• make laws necessary to properly execute powers.

Which one are you saying masks fall under?

 

[Isilwen]

The constitution limits the governments power. It does not afford the government powers. It is literally a list of what cannot be taken from the citizenry.

Power enumerated to congress:

• levy and collect taxes,
• coin money and regulate its value,
• provide punishment for counterfeiting,
• establish post offices and roads,
• promote progress of science by issuing patents,
• create federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court,
• combat piracies and felonies,
• declare war,
• raise and support armies,
• provide and maintain a navy,
• make rules for the regulation of land and naval forces,
• exercise exclusive legislation in the District of Columbia,
• make laws necessary to properly execute powers.

Which one are you saying masks fall under?

But according to Lindsay Wiley, the director of the Health Law and Policy Program at American University, there is a legal basis for mandatory masks.

Q&A: Are Face Mask Requirements Legal?

At this point, I really really wish I could leave this country!

 

[loveofourlord]

Which brings up a greater issue. IMO the best way to deal with this disease is to make special accommodations for the vulnerable, to fortify the medical industry's response capability, and to let the disease run its course in the general population, which has high natural immunity to it. Then herd immunity will be built up quickly, and everyone will be the beneficiaries. Some epidemiologists have concluded are that only ~23% of the population has to attain Covid immunity in order to achieve herd immunity.

By making a super big deal of this, we have only empowered it. It feels like a Kafkaesque world when I go out, because 85% of it is pure nonsense. But then Democrats have noticed that Trump's popularity has been inversely proportional to the impact of Covid. Funny how well that comports with the totalitarian, destructive, and nonsensical decrees of many Democratic governors.

Immunity may not exist without vaccine, this also ignores the strain on the medical profession and hospitals that is very real. 1400 people died yesterday many of them preventable if people had done any modicum of effort to stop spreading the disease.

 

[RaymondG]

Why should 330 million people be forced by the barrel of a government gun to wear a mask that on its best day offers 3% protection?

Let's review this closely using your numbers.... 3% of 330,000,000 million, is 9,900,000 million lives.

You are asking us, Who serve a God who would leave HEAVEN to save ONE LOST life..... Why we would force people to wear a cloth on their face in public, when on its best day, it could potentially save (only) 10 million people?

You would not take this inconvenience because 10 million people is too small a number to warrant this inconvenience?

I have you say....you got me of this one....I do not know how to respond.

Let's look at this more broadly. Each year 30-100k Americans die of flu. Should we wear masks on the hope that they might stop 3% of flu cases? According to the CDC's own estimates, Coronavirus has a 99.4-99.85% survival rate. Should all of us be inconvenienced and have our good health put in jeopardy on the outside hope that maybe a couple thousand won't die? That strikes me as completely insane. Especially in light of the dire negative consequences that the governments actions have had on society, from enforced social distancing to economic shutdowns and school closures. The cure is worse than the virus.

Let just think about others for a second, if we can. I know of people who lost multiple family members in the same family...parents and siblings. Do you think that they would appreciate it more if we do what we can to save as many people as we can, no matter the percentage.....or if promote the idea that we should just let everyone get it who will get it and let just let death come to whom it will?

 

[Redwingfan9]

Yet surgical masks have been preventing doctors and nurses from catching illnesses for several decades (about the 1960s). Long before the corona virus the swine flu or any other epidemic siince the 60s. I wonder why if surgical masks dont work...

Seriously, they work my mother was a nurse for over 40 years. They only will not work if 1 of 3 of the following scenarios happen.

1. The doctor or nurse puts them on wrong or disposes them wrong by touching the front of it and then make contact with their mouth.
2. The mask comes off.
3. They dont wear a mask.

Those are literally the only 3 scenarios where a surgical mask will not work. Theyve been working at preventing medical personel from getting every disease since before you were probably born...(just a guess could be wrong)

I know the general public are making their own cloth masks but they're literally the same thing. They're just cheaper to make.

They aren't the same thing though which is why surgical masks are marginally better than cloth masks.

 

[LostMarbels]

But according to Lindsay Wiley, the director of the Health Law and Policy Program at American University, there is a legal basis for mandatory masks.

Q&A: Are Face Mask Requirements Legal?

That is not what I asked. What constitutional authority does the federal government have to infringe upon the citizenry's rights?

At this point, I really really wish I could leave this country!

You can. Here is the info on how to do so.

Renunciation of U.S. Nationality Abroad

 

[Isilwen]

That is not what I asked. What constitutional authority does the federal government have to infringe upon the citizenry's rights?

If you read the article, it will give you what you seek.

You can. Here is the info on how to do so.

Renunciation of U.S. Nationality Abroad

I really cannot as I have two little ones from a divorce here that I will not leave behind!

 

[Neostarwcc]

They aren't the same thing though which is why surgical masks are marginally better than cloth masks.

They are. Surgical masks work because instead of the virus or bacteria from said disease going into your mouth it goes onto the mask instead. That's why if you touch the front of the mask with your hand and then touch your mouth you will get the disease. But if you dispose of it properly (grab it by the sides and throw it away) then you wont get the disease.

Cloth masks are made the exact same way and fulfill that purpose the CV goes on the mask instead of in your mouth and you throw it away properly

My mother insists it's safe unlike with surgical masks to even wash the cloth masks in the washing machine afterwards and reuse them. But I don't agree with her on everything. Although, shes probably right. She was a highly educated nurse for many years. Half of the time my mom knows more than half of our doctors...

 

[LostMarbels]

If you read the article, it will give you what you seek.

Do you understand the difference between what is legislated, or mandated or even just a policy?

They cannot make wearing a mask in to a law, because that would be legislatively unconstitutional. Thusly, they attempt to enforce an unlegislated non-law, as law, by coercive means. It has no teeth. You cannot be prosecuted for an opinion or non legislated issues. There is no law to be broken, it is therefore unenforceable. Kind of like a 'mandatory' evacuation before a storm. It is not enforceable by law, cannot be legislatively enacted, and is nothing more that a stern warning.

 

[NotreDame]

Bingo. No one wants to confront the elephant in the room. There is not medical consensus on masks, despite what the media and government are peddling. People can't handle knowing that the mask isn't going to save them from Coronavirus.

So? Why does a consensus matter? What matters is the evidence.

Why do you continue with the false narrative "knowing that the mask isn't going to save them from Coronavirus." The mask is to reduce the transmission of the virus and the risk of spreading the virus.

 

[parousia70]

The constitution limits the governments power. It does not afford the government powers. It is literally a list of what cannot be taken from the citizenry.

Power enumerated to congress:

• levy and collect taxes,
• coin money and regulate its value,
• provide punishment for counterfeiting,
• establish post offices and roads,
• promote progress of science by issuing patents,
• create federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court,
• combat piracies and felonies,
• declare war,
• raise and support armies,
• provide and maintain a navy,
• make rules for the regulation of land and naval forces,
• exercise exclusive legislation in the District of Columbia,
• make laws necessary to properly execute powers.

Which one are you saying masks fall under?

Which one would you say the requirement to wear ANY Clothing at all falls under?

 

[Isilwen]

Do you understand the difference between what is legislated, or mandated or even just a policy?

They cannot make wearing a mask in to a law, because that would be legislatively unconstitutional. Thusly, they attempt to enforce an unlegislated non-law, as law, by coercive means. It has no teeth. You cannot be prosecuted for an opinion or non legislated issue. There is no law to be broken, it is therefore unenforceable. Kind of like a 'mandatory' evacuation before a storm. It is not enforceable by law, cannot be legislatively enacted, and is nothing more that a stern warning.

I disagree with you! If people cannot see that the government is trying to do what's best for the greater good, this country is so far gone that it may be past the point of no return.

This is why I want to leave. At least other countries, while they disliked being shutdown, the citizens did it because they care for their fellow countrymen. Their countries also supported the people while they were staying home, something our government is unwilling to really do.