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Does Science Agree With the Bible?

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Joshua_Verum, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. Edmond Smith

    Edmond Smith Well-Known Member

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    You know what. Knowing whether or not the flood happened or didn't happen.

    I believe it did, you don't.

    We keep going into circles. Blame me if you want. Don't care about that.

    What I do care about and the most important message I have to give you. You wanted one subject, forget the flood, it's important for those of us who believe. Not to those who don't believe.

    What do you believe happens to you after you die?
     
  2. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    Where is your evidence that Noah spread this knowledge?
     
  3. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    We can present evidence demonstrating that the flood didn't happen.

    You are unable to present evidence demonstrate that a flood did happen.

    The reason we keep going in circles is because you can't present evidence to back your claims.

    We happen to think that reality trumps beliefs.
     
  4. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    I get them from the universe around me.

    Why? Because you believe it is true?

    What genome analysis? How can they swap genes if their progeny are not fertile?

    Are you now saying that a kind is a species? Where is your evidence for these claims?

    Evidence?
     
  5. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    Where is the evidence demonstrating that those fossils were put there in that fashion?

    Not evidence of a recent global flood since ancient local floods will produce the same evidence.

    The white cliffs at Dover were not rapidly deposited. Those cliffs are made up of microscopic organisms. There is simply no way that hundreds of feet of coccolithophores can reproduce, grow, die, and then settle over a few months. Those cliffs are some of the best evidence falsifying a recent global flood and all of your other claims.

    Never heard of rivers? Those processes are occurring right now, no global flood needed.

    The Coconino sandstones are wind blown desert sand dunes. Floods don't produce those deposits.

    Also occurring in the here and now, no need for a recent or global flood.
     
  6. dad

    dad Undefeated! Supporter

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    Correct. Science cannot learn about creation 7nless they know the creator, rather than shun Him from their fishbowl knowledge. Their growth has been severely stunted.
     
  7. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    I don't know. Either I'll find out one day, or I'll never know what hit me. Frankly, I'm in no hurry to find out just yet; I got things to do! :)
     
  8. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

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    You are assuming that there is a creator and a fishbowl.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Wrong, but since you have shown that you can't discuss science rationally there really is no point in discussing this with you. Sadly you deny all science but have no problem in hypocritically using the benefits of the science that you deny.
     
  10. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    I don't think he does that.

    He just puts science in its place -- that's all.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    And you are of course wrong again. This is not an opinion on my part but a conclusion based upon reading your posts. No matter how many times that you claim that you are not ignorant of science your posts shout much louder that you are.



    Don't be silly, of course I have. You believe bedtime stories that are refuted by the simple fact that ice floats. And we don't even know that there is one god. You don't seem to realize that there are many different Christian versions of God. Please try to keep up.




    Nope. This is an equivocation error on your part. You are using different definitions of faith and pretending that they are all the same. When I speak of faith I am talking of believing without evidence. That is something that you do that I don't.




    I see that you still do not understand simple English. That was a logical conclusion of what you stated. I can quote what you stated and explain how it is a logical conclusion. Stop the dishonest Gishing and I will do so.

    Wrong. You are projecting again.

    Of course it does. You either did not read or did not understand. You don't even know what a population bottleneck is. Again, if you want to go over this in detail start a separate post on this subject. When you keep Gishing I can only give you very light correction. Please don't claim that you understand what a population bottleneck is when you clearly don't.

    Wrong, there is no history of them. There is fantasy about them. You need to learn the difference between history and fairy tales.


    It would have been a huge problem. If you read about population bottlenecks you would have understood this. Thank you for confirming my earlier conclusion.


    Good. Then please quit strawmanning the theory of evolution. You share a common ancestor with other apes. That is why you are still an ape.


    Gladly, you know the rules. Start a separate post where you deal only with this topic. No Gishing allowed.




    Again wrong. The lack of a near extinction population bottleneck shows this. There were never only two human beings. Populations evolve, not individuals.




    And yet you cannot name one. There are false charges against your neighbor. Guess what Commandment that violates?

    You know that this is not true. I see that you are still afraid to debate properly and honestly even though I have offered to give you the evidence that you ask for if you do so.

    You are of course wrong about the "God" part but the fact that there are 40,000 different sects show that among Christians there are 40,000 different versions of God.

    And yet you have no evidence to support that claim.


    Again, it depends upon what version of God one believes in. I see that you could not honestly answer the question on flat Earth believers. Has there version of God been refuted?


    Nope, God does not answer prayers. The few times that this has been tested the claim has been shown to be false. To claim that he answers prayers puts the burden of proof upon you. All you have are anecdotes at best. Worse yet your personal prejudice will give God credit when he does not earn it and you absolve him when he could be blamed for wrongs. You have a very distorted view of the world.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Nope, if that were the case he would walk the walk, all dad does is to talk the talk. He reminds me of someone else here.
     
  13. Edmond Smith

    Edmond Smith Well-Known Member

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    It's a pretty long article On the Scientific America web site:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-prevents-similar-animals-from-interbreeding/

    That is what a kind is. Its a species. It's also in Webster. 1a.

    Full Definition of species
    plural species

    1. 1a : kind, sortb : a class of individuals having common attributes and designated by a common name; specifically : a logical division of a genus or more comprehensive class <confessing sins in species and in number>c : the human race : human beings —often used with the <survival of the species in the nuclear age>d (1) : a category of biological classification ranking immediately below the genus or subgenus, comprising related organisms or populations potentially capable of interbreeding, and being designated by a binomial that consists of the name of a genus followed by a Latin or latinized uncapitalized noun or adjective agreeing grammatically with the genus name (2) : an individual or kind belonging to a biological speciese : a particular kind of atomic nucleus, atom, molecule, or ion

    2. 2 : the consecrated eucharistic elements of the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Eucharist

    3. 3a : a mental image; also : a sensible objectb : an object of thought correlative with a natural object

    No, the Bible is true, because it's proves itself to be true. It stands on it's own. It does something that no other so called religious book does and does it quite accrual. Prophecies for one, Every prophecy written in the Word of God, has happened, except of course those that are in the future.
    there are over 300 prophecies of Jesus Christ written well over 400 years before His birth, that was satisfied and fulfilled.
    the odds of hitting every single prophecy is quite astronomical.

    To begin with, did you know that the Old Testament prophet Micah, writing circa 700 B.C., out of the hundreds and hundreds of cities in the scores and scores of nations in existence all over the world even in those days, designated Bethlehem of Judea as the birthplace of the Messiah (Micah 5:2)?

    And that at about the same time, Isaiah (7:14) said that the Christ would be born of a virgin?

    Or that a prophecy made in 1012 B.C. specified that the Messiah's hands and feet would eventually be pierced--a clear reference to death by crucifixion--800 years before the Romans ever even instituted crucifixion as a form of capital punishment!

    Malachi 3:1, penned in about 425 B.C., specified that the Messiah would be contemporary with the temple in Jerusalem--a temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D. and has never been rebuilt.

    Well, if all this impresses you even a little bit, you ought to go compare Zechariah 11:11-13 (written over 500 years before Christ) to Matthew 27:3-10 (written some 25-30 years after Christ). Only coincidence?

    A number of years ago, Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman wrote a book entitled Science Speaks. The book was based on the science of probability and vouched for by the American Scientific Affiliation. It set out the odds of any one man in all of history fulfilling even only eight of the 60 major prophecies (and 270 ramifications) fulfilled by the life of Christ.

    The probability that Jesus of Nazareth could have fulfilled even eight such prophecies would be only 1 in 1017. That's 1 in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000.

    Stoner claims that that many silver dollars would be enough to cover the face of the entire state of Texas two feet deep. Now I've been to Texas. I've driven for days to get across Texas. Texas is a very big state. Who in his right mind would suppose that a blindfolded man, heading out of Dallas by foot in any direction, would be able, on his very first attempt, to pick up one specifically marked silver dollar out of 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000?

    a paper from United States Senate Chaplain Richard Halverson. In it he wrote:

    “The fact is, the birth, crucifixion, and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ are celebrated worldwide by folk of every race, language, and color, every year. And believing in Jesus, they have been delivered from the most evil, disastrous, frustrating, debilitating habits and life forms possible. The real problem with Jesus Christ is not that folk can't believe in Him—but that they won't believe in Him.”

    Yep, It's true and it isn't cause I say so.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Sorry but this is evidence against the flood. There are far too many fossils for the flood. If there was a flood there would have been only one very thin layer of fossils. Look at how much life there is today. In only one formation, a rather fossil rich one, but still it is only a small part of the total of land based fossil life but there would have to be over 20 animals per acres from chicken sized to cow sized to account for just these fossils:

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/oldearth2.htm

    If you include all of the known fossil beds Noah would not have been able to move due to all of the life, much less find any for his boat. Fossils high up on mountains support geology, a major branch of science that you have just shown that you are totally ignorant of.

    And if you include the fossilized sea life you would have tons of corals that could not have ever grown in your short lived Earth. Fish so thick you could have walked on water. You do realize that land based fossils are only one twentieth of all of the fossils. You would make life over twenty times as heavy in he ocean as you want to make it on Earth. Sorry, you lose on fossils.

    Yes, there are some fossil graveyards. But that does not mean all fossils are from rapid burial. Usually when scientists say fossils are buried "rapidly" they are speaking of geologic time, and not the sort of time you are. That some fossils were buried rapidly does not support the flood myth.

    Yes, there are widespread formations. None of the were rapidly deposited. Especially not limestone we know how limestone forms. It is a very slow process. And chalk is even slower. Please. You are just shooting yourself in the foot.

    Please stop listening to idiots. First where is the evidence that supports your claim that the Coconino had to come from the northeastern parts of the U.S. and Canada? Worse yet, the Coconino sandstone is an aeolian deposit. It was wind blown, not water born. The grains of the sand tell us that, the cross bedding tells us that, and aeolian cross bedding is quite different from cross bedding in rivers, deltas and beaches. The fossilized footprints in the sandstone tell us that.

    You might want to read this article:

    http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Helble.pdf

    But that is just a lie on the part of flood "geologists". Yes, there are areas where erosional surfaces are quite flat. I can take you to many areas where there is active erosion and you can see that ultimately the surfaces are flat. Flat surfaces between strata is not evidence for a flood. One has to look close up to see evidence of erosion, or check a wide area. There are many areas where a stream or other change in elevation is not clear. Your last one was so weak I don't even no why you included it. What one will find with uncomformities is that they may be flat in some areas, but not in all, or they will peter out as the land may have tipped a bit in between deposits. This last argument only shows more ignorance on your part.


    Did that, even though you did not exactly follow the rules. You still Gished. One bit of "evidence" at a time. You also need to learn what evidence is.

    Now I can show you a photograph that refutes your version of the flood. Would you like to see it? We can discuss it and why it tells us that there never was a worldwide flood. And I see that you still have not dealt with the simple fact that ice floats.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  15. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    What do you think of atheists who:
    1. Prefer to get married in a church?
    2. Enjoy a Christian holiday off work?
    3. Has a cross put on a loved-one's tombstone?
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Nope. I can refute that claim with two words:

    Tyre Prophecy.


    there are over 300 prophecies of Jesus Christ written well over 400 years before His birth, that was satisfied and fulfilled.
    the odds of hitting every single prophecy is quite astronomical.[/quote]

    Actually there aren't. Most of those are simply quote mines. They are not prophecies at all.
    But he probably was not born in Bethlehem. It looks like Matthew and Luke cooked the books to make it look that way. The problem is that their claims are refuted by history.

    But that was not the prophecy. That was a mistranslation from Hebrew to Greek. The Septuagint has a translation error that was picked up by the authors of Luke and Matthew. To make the Jesus story more appealing they fudged the record and used that error to claim he was born of a virgin. Rather than supporting the Jesus story that hurts it.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    People get married all over the place. Churches are handy sites for that. Many churches do not care about the beliefs of people that rent their buildings. If anyone is showing hypocrisy it would be the churches since they are doing it for the money. A church is just a building for atheists.

    What "Christian holiday"s?

    If a loved one of mine was a Christian I see no harm in honoring their beliefs. That is not hypocrisy. But what dad does is obviously hypocrisy. Using computers, which uses the same science that tells us that the Earth is old is hypocrisy. In fact he has to deny all of science to support his beliefs so he should not be using the benefits of science at all.

    That I do not believe in gods does not change the fact that a building is just a building.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Sorry, but teachers cannot force students to learn. There are going to be some students that won't let the teacher help him or her. Also you contradicted yourself. Now if you want to learn people here will help you. But if you keep claiming silly nonsense as being true you will not learn anything.
     
  19. ScottA

    ScottA Author: Walking Like Einstein Supporter

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    What [you] believe is not what is important here. What is important, is [knowing] what and who it is that we are dealing with.

    If you came into a king's palace or a president's office, you would (or should) not question their authority, and you might not understand their way of doing things. But it is not for you to say, nor are you likely to understand. Yet, here you are, not even perceiving that you are in a king's domain, doing just that. It's even worse than that: You make yourself out to be a mouse in a palace, and instead of fearing for your life and your next meal, you expect to have a say.

    You...do not have a say, nor are you even remotely correct in your assumption.
     
  20. Edmond Smith

    Edmond Smith Well-Known Member

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    Ice floating, refutes nothing, it does admit that the flood did happen.

    There are many different versions of Christianity and god, yes....you notice not capitalized....just because someone says they are Christian doesn't' mean they are. If they believe in a god, who wouldn't send them to hell for sin...false god.
    If they believe in a god, that loves and has no wrath...false god.
    if they believe in a god, that didn't create....false god.
    if they believe in a god, who didn't come down in the form of man and died for our sins....false god.
    And yes, these gods are man made and have been refuted by the True God of the Bible. Jehovah.

    Yeah, there are many different, false gods. But there is only one True God. The God that is love, who is also just, who is also wrathful, who is also a judge, who is also angry, who is also sinless and so much more. Most especially a God who came to down to earth in the form of a man, called a hypostatic union. He was fully God and fully Man, and He showed that.
    That same God's son Christ, came so that we may be saved. Even you, so that you can have your sins cleansed by the blood He shed, because He paid our price for salvation by His Death.






    What evidence do you have that you will wake up tomorrow?...you don't have any...yet you expect to get up...that's called faith.
    You see, your under the delusion that you know everything. Not so. If you did, you wouldn't be here talking to me, because you would already know what I was going to say before I said it.
    I say that because you say you have no faith. For you to have no faith, would mean that you know what's going to happen before it happens. that you already have the evidence before you that it will happen. Not possible.






    Never claimed to be the best at grammar. suck at it really. but the logic of the flood and ice floating...solid.



    Wrong. You are projecting again.



    population bottleneck is a sharp reduction in the size of a population due to environmental events (such as earthquakes, floods, fires, disease, or droughts) or human activities (such as genocide).

    Other words, there was a population bottleneck after the flood, because the population of the earth was destroyed during the flood, only leaving Noah and his family left to populate the earth. Exactly as I explained earlier.




    There is written history. Plenty of it. and it being a fairy tale is your really bad opinion.




    Again, your conclusion was incorrect as this statement is also. PB is understood quite easily.




    Everyone, including creation scientists agree that species change over time. The fundamental difference is that evolutionists believe that all the diversity of life we see today arose from a single common ancestor and creation scientists believe that all the diversity of life arose from the originally created kinds. This variation includes speciation, but only within the created kinds. Science bears this out as one kind of creature has never been observed to change into another kind despite literally billions of generations that have been scrutinized

    Wrong again. Apes are not of the human species. Yes, they are mammals, so are dolphins, why didn't we evolve from them, so are whales and cows anything that has a vertebrae and produces milk for it's young fall under the categorie of mammals. but just because they do, doesn't mean we evolved from them. What it does show though is a Common Creator, God.
    So therefore we couldn't have come from them. Why? interbreeding wouldn't have been able to happen. Also, there is no transitional fossils to show the change from ape to man.

    You want an honest question. here ya go....Where did the first mammal come from?




    Gladly, you know the rules. Start a separate post where you deal only with this topic. No Gishing allowed.






    individuals change over time. As do populations. They also adapt. They just don't change kind, from one species to another. that we agree.
    No Adam and Eve, what evidence do you have that shows otherwise? Opinion on your part.

    .






    That man is good enough.....we're not




    Then quit saying things have been refuted without showing the evidence that it has.



    Wrong and answered earlier.






    Yep...called God's Word.




    straw man
    I'm not talking about the god the flat earth believers believe in. I'm talking of the one from the Bible God Jehovah




    God does answer prayers....sometime is answer is ....NO
    Opinion on your part.
    And there a much more who believe than who don't. That really doesn't make any difference really. God's still there, you'll see one day.
     
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