Does Science Agree With the Bible?

[Subduction Zone]

You don't know that...but I do know it for a fact. I'm not assuming.

I doubt it. Knowledge is demonstrable. Mere belief is not. So far all you have shown that you have is mere belief. You have not been able to support any of your claims with valid evidence. But I have been shown to be wrong in the past so I am always open to new ideas.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What's wrong with the Tyre prophecy now?

Nothing except for the fact that it is the most obviously failed prophecy in all of the Bible. It was supposed to be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and never found again. That never happened. We can still see it today. You can learn more here:

http://etb-biblical-errancy.blogspot.com/2012/04/ezekiels-prophecy-of-tyre-failed.html

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then it wouldn't bother you to get married at Walmart?

(And for the record, chief, I said "prefer to get married in a church.")

Walmart does not make their stores available for weddings. Where would people sit? You need to work on your analogy skills.

And I don't know of any atheists that prefer to get married in a church. They merely prefer to get married in a building that offers many of the amenities that a church does. But it is very difficult to rent out small gathering places aside form churches. As a result many atheists get married in churches. Show me buildings that are readily available and affordable to rent that fit the bill. Not failed analogies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Subduction,

You know what. I'm done. With talking about the flood that is and evolution. We aren't getting anywhere with it.
I've learned a lot. That much is true.
The main thing that I learned, is that I pity you and will be praying for you.
You say you have no faith. Maybe not in God, no. But you do have faith, in yourself. It's unfortunate but it's true.

Too bad. With a little honesty on your part you could have learned something. And watch the false accusations. That is against the rules of this forum. Again, I do not have the flaw of faith, or rather I try to minimalize it.

Your going to face God, one day. Doesn't matter how many times you say he doesn't exist or that he's been refuted.
Those are your opinions and your entitled to them. They're wrong in so many levels. But you believe that, and that my friend is also faith.

And how can I face that which does not exist? I have already shown that I will not be meeting your version of God. You are running away because you know that you are wrong but can't bring yourself to admit it. I even offered to break everything down for you and that was too much.

It's just getting boring, to be honest with you. Also, I learned a long time ago. You can't teach or show anyone, who thinks they know all, anything. It's like running into a wall.

But I know that I do not know it all. I simply know much more than you do. Your main flaw is that you will not let yourself learn because you are afraid. Knowledge is nothing to be afraid of.

I don't relent, I don't think your right. Until you get right with God, you never will be.

Who can say that I am "not with God". I am just not with your demonstrably wrong version of God.

Just remember this.

If you've transgress God's Law you have sin in your life.
If you've lied, your a liar
If you've stolen, your a thief
If you've look at someone with lust, you've committed adultery in you heart already.
If you hate someone, your a murderer and there is no eternal life in you at all.
When you sin, you dishonor your parents
Those are 6 of God's commandments, that He placed upon your heart and into your conscience. If you break just one you've broke them all.

And again the empty threats and bad logic. People only threaten when they know that they are wrong.

The bible tells us...wo to the man who is in the hands of an angry God. And believe me, he's angry. Every time you sin, you stack up wrath from God. Because you don't sin against people, you sin directly against God. Dangerous thing, yeah, you might go thru life and have a wonderful fulfilled life and not live for God. Many do. But in the end, when you face him and you will, none of that will matter.

But the Bible is not a valid source. We have been over this and you are merely picking and choosing from a failed book. That proves nothing.

You see, you say the things you say, and you try to tear down other peoples faith, not because you don't have any faith, you have plenty, just in the wrong things. But because you love your sins. You like them so much, you'd bet your eternal life on them. You'll lose.

But faith is a flaw. Your faith is only an irrational response to a rational fear. Yes, it is rational to be afraid of death. It is irrational to make up stories to allay those fears.

There's away out of going to Hell. But I'm not going to tell you. Not because I am being mean or don't care, no quite the opposite, I care and do want the fathers will for you to be saved. but because telling you of the cross would be foolishness. You wouldn't care what Christ did for you. So telling you would be a moot thing. Lord willing you will find out the truth before it's way to late to do so. Cause right now. Your headed to Hell. Doesn't matter what you believe..that's the direction you sins are going to take you.

This is the subject I really wanted to discuss with you. Got sidetracked by the flood stuff. Good and truthful story as it is.
Nothing's more important than your soul. Which the flood is about God's saving grace and a shadow of how he goes about it.
That's why I know it to be true.

And back to the empty threats. The simple fact is that your version of God has been shown to be wrong, just as the version of God of the Flat Earthers has been shown to be wrong. I do not claim that all versions of God have been refuted. But your personal view can be shown to be wrong. Do you understand that when I say there are "40,000 different versions of God" I am including those that you call "false". But just as science shows that the version of God that the Flat Earthers have is "false" science shows that your version of God is "false".

You don't have to drop Christianity to accept science and reality. These Christians have not done so:

http://biologos.org/

 

[Subduction Zone]

You lie. You do not know what I know, nor could you.

Again, knowledge is demonstrable. You have only posted opinion at best. You have never supported your claims. You have not demonstrated any knowledge. To us all we can see is unjustified belief.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nothing except for the fact that it is the most obviously failed prophecy in all of the Bible.

It is!?

It was supposed to be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar ...

Yes ... how's come it wasn't?

Do you suppose Tyre repented and the prophecy was left for someone else to carry it out?

Like Alexander T. Great?

Remember Nineveh?

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Jonah was all for its destruction, but something happened.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

This didn't set well with Jonah.

Jonah 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jonah 4: 2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

But it was Jonah's problem -- not God's.

... and never found again.

I don't know about that.

QV please:

Was Tyre Ever Rebuilt?

"The modern city of Tyre is of modest size and is near the ancient site, though not identical to it. Archaeological photographs of the ancient site show ruins from ancient Tyre scattered over many acres of land. No city has been rebuilt over these ruins, however, in fulfillment of this prophecy." (Dennis and Grudem, “Tyre,” The ESV Study Bible)

"In point of fact, the mainland city of Tyre later was rebuilt and assumed some of its former importance during the Hellenistic period. But as for the island city, it apparently sank below the surface of the Mediterranean…All that remains of it is a series of black reefs offshore from Tyre, which surely could not have been there in the first and second millennia b.c., since they pose such a threat to navigation. The promontory that now juts out from the coastline probably was washed up along the barrier of Alexander’s causeway, but the island itself broke off and sank away when the subsidence took place; and we have no evidence at all that it ever was built up again after Alexander’s terrible act of vengeance. In the light of these data, then, the predictions of chapter 26, improbable though they must have seemed in Ezekiel’s time, were duly fulfilled to the letter—first by Nebuchadnezzar in the sixth century, and then by Alexander in the fourth."

SOURCE

In any case, New Tyre may exist.

But not Tyre.

 

[AV1611VET]

Walmart does not make their stores available for weddings.

Maybe they know something you don't?

And I don't know of any atheists that prefer to get married in a church.

Keep looking.

 

[ScottA]

Your claim however of some secret "knowledge" about science based upon your experience with the Holy Spirit within you isn't justified by the majority of the experiences of other Christians. You're still in the minority viewpoint no matter how you slice it or dice it with respect to your Biblical interpretation, and you've got nothing to work with in terms of any external reference points and nothing to show in terms of empirical physics in general.

I'm not sure where you are going with this. If there is a point you would like me to clarify, I would be happy to do so. But what you just described sounds like an attempt to disqualify, when those very points are common among the prophets, in spite of their being rejected.

 

[ScottA]

We do know that you can't produce one iota of evidence to back your claims.

What is evident, is that you are ill equipped to receive evidence of an on-topic, spiritual nature...and it limits your intellect. You can't go there, so we can't go there. And that means we either play by your sandlot rules, or we don't play. Which, actually, just means...you get left behind.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is!?Yes ... how's come it wasn't?

Do you suppose Tyre repented and the prophecy was left for someone else to carry it out?

Like Alexander T. Great?

Remember Nineveh?

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Jonah was all for its destruction, but something happened.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

This didn't set well with Jonah.

Jonah 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jonah 4: 2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

But it was Jonah's problem -- not God's.I don't know about that.

QV please:

Was Tyre Ever Rebuilt?

"The modern city of Tyre is of modest size and is near the ancient site, though not identical to it. Archaeological photographs of the ancient site show ruins from ancient Tyre scattered over many acres of land. No city has been rebuilt over these ruins, however, in fulfillment of this prophecy." (Dennis and Grudem, “Tyre,” The ESV Study Bible)

"In point of fact, the mainland city of Tyre later was rebuilt and assumed some of its former importance during the Hellenistic period. But as for the island city, it apparently sank below the surface of the Mediterranean…All that remains of it is a series of black reefs offshore from Tyre, which surely could not have been there in the first and second millennia b.c., since they pose such a threat to navigation. The promontory that now juts out from the coastline probably was washed up along the barrier of Alexander’s causeway, but the island itself broke off and sank away when the subsidence took place; and we have no evidence at all that it ever was built up again after Alexander’s terrible act of vengeance. In the light of these data, then, the predictions of chapter 26, improbable though they must have seemed in Ezekiel’s time, were duly fulfilled to the letter—first by Nebuchadnezzar in the sixth century, and then by Alexander in the fourth."

SOURCE

In any case, New Tyre may exist.

But not Tyre.

Wrong. Tyre still exists, it always has existed. Even your quote supports that. Cities change over the years. That does not mean that they do not exist. Do you want to go over the prophesy? No speculation on your part allowed. It either came true or it failed. The problem is to make it "come true" you have to lower Biblical prophecy to the point that it is worthless. My prediction that "Next time you drive your car you will see a red vehicle" is a "Biblical prophesy" by those standards.

The simple fact is that the prophesy failed, and you and I both know it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Maybe they know something you don't?

No, they know something that I know. You failed again.

Keep looking.

And wrong again. It is your claim, you need to support it.

 

[Davian]

I'm not sure where you are going with this. If there is a point you would like me to clarify, I would be happy to do so. But what you just described sounds like an attempt to disqualify, when those very points are common among the prophets, in spite of their being rejected.

"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

 

[ScottA]

I doubt it. Knowledge is demonstrable. Mere belief is not. So far all you have shown that you have is mere belief. You have not been able to support any of your claims with valid evidence. But I have been shown to be wrong in the past so I am always open to new ideas.

Sandlot rules. Ours, not yours. Sorry, that doesn't work here. Empirical evidence is too archaic.

 

[HitchSlap]

What is evident, is that you are ill equipped to receive evidence of an on-topic, spiritual nature...and it limits your intellect. You can't go there, so we can't go there. And that means we either play by your sandlot rules, or we don't play. Which, actually, just means...you get left behind.

This approach may work on five year olds, but not adults. I suggest you rethink your efforts, as they're not remotely effective.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is evident, is that you are ill equipped to receive evidence of an on-topic, spiritual nature...and it limits your intellect. You can't go there, so we can't go there. And that means we either play by your sandlot rules, or we don't play. Which, actually, just means...you get left behind.

Actually the rules here tell us that we cannot argue for general atheism. In this part of the forum science holds sway. But we still can't say "this disproves God". We can show how someone is wrong in their interpretation of the Bible but we can't claim that means God does not exist, nor would we want to.

So don't blame us about the rules here. If we could we would gladly debate outside of the box of science, but as I said that can't be done here by atheists.

 

[Davian]

Sandlot rules. Ours, not yours. Sorry, that doesn't work here. Empirical evidence is too archaic.

Empirical evidence would be suitable for the Physical & Life Sciences forum in which you are posting. Preaching would be better suited for the Exploring Christianity forum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sandlot rules. Ours, not yours. Sorry, that doesn't work here. Empirical evidence is too archaic.

And once again the rules of this forum say that essentially science can hold sway here. We are not even allowed to discuss the existence of God here except under very limited circumstances. But since you claimed that empirical evidence is "too archaic" the burden of proof for that falls upon you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Tyre still exists, it always has existed.

Thou hast spoken?

 

[ScottA]

This approach may work on five year olds, but not adults. I suggest you rethink your efforts, as they're not remotely effective.

You are wrong. It's perfect:

"Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

 

[ScottA]

Actually the rules here tell us that we cannot argue for general atheism. In this part of the forum science holds sway. But we still can't say "this disproves God". We can show how someone is wrong in their interpretation of the Bible but we can't claim that means God does not exist, nor would we want to.

So don't blame us about the rules here. If we could we would gladly debate outside of the box of science, but as I said that can't be done here by atheists.

You think too small. I wasn't talking about the rules here, as in here, but as in the subject of which we are speaking. What would the point be of comparing science with the bible, if it were only done according to science?