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Featured Conditional salvation??

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Dorothy Mae, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    If the apostles did this, we would all be lost in our sin as would the rest of the world.
     
  2. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Does love dictate if you are really married? The answer is the same. Does a piece of paper make one really married? If one thinks one can be saved and has no oto love Christ, one has to ask if that is not a good description of "depart from me, I never knew you" that Jesus spoke about. Those who merely want out of hell with no desire to love God are on shakey ground at best. Might not be standing on any ground at worst. These who think they are saved but have no love for God or man need to examine themselves "to see if they are indeed in the faith" in the words of Paul, IMHO. Better now than when it is too late.
     
  3. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Does it matter what name we call it? If we do not forgive others, we will not be forgiven. Are those not forgiven of their sins admitting into the Father's house? This is the bigger question, not what name we decide to give it. God is not obligated to honor the names we assign to matters.
     
  4. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    The point i was making was the more we love Christ is not the same as the more we are saved.

    You either are saved or not saved. There is no 1/2 saved. Even if you 1/2 love.

    It is possible to be saved without love. Many get saved out of fear.

    You can get married without love.
     
  5. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Can you please not interrupt this thread by introducing Catholic problems. No one much seems to want to respond to it, by the way, not that they are unprepared to do so. (That, btw, is pretty haughty assuming that we cannot do so because we do not want to do so.)
     
  6. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    How do you know if they are possibly on shaky ground? Only God knows who is saved or not.
     
  7. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    When you really love Christ deeply as Paul and Peter and John did, you cease to think about your own salvation much at all. Did they ever write about how happy (or some other adjective) that they personally were saved? If they mentioned at all, it I recall it to be in a group designation, that is, WE are saved, not I am saved.

    Paul's heart desire was to know Christ, not how great it was that he is saved. Read the volume of what he wrote and his feelings for himself being saved have few references if any. And the guarantee of such or Christ doing it all or that he is going to Heaven for sure are not to be found. There are references to him "beating his body" lest he find himself to be "disqualified."
     
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  8. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    He also eats the meat and not the milk.

    Many new Christians drink the milk.
     
  9. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Did I name names? When preachers talk to those in the crowd who do not know Jesus, does anyone stand up and challenge him with "how do you know if they are possibly not saved" as though he shouldn't preach such things.

    What you do not see is that words are so that each man can evaluate himself. And I did not write that we are to check "to see if we are in the faith," Paul did. Has some authority for believers. No one wrote, "be glad that you are in the faith and will remain in t he faith no matter what you do or fail to do." No one.
     
  10. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Many old Christians drink the milk too. Sometimes they put chocolate in it for variety and make it taste even better.
     
  11. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    There's been a lot of water under the bridge since the Reformation, with many generations of people being raised within the Protestant fold. This in itself changes the way the RCC views Protestantism today. The Church actually accepts most Protestants as Christian, while Protestant commentators, confessions, theologians, individuals, or denominations may or may not hold the same sentiment towards the Catholic Church. Either way, to understand the Church's position on this matter now it would be best to read the Vat II docs for oneself:
    Unitatis redintegratio
     
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  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    This is a controversial theology forum and the title of the thread is "conditional salvation". My post is consistent with both the controversial nature of it and conditional salvation from a Catholic point of view. I guess that no one seems to want to respond to it because they know about the Catholic position already.

    It is always better to kick the ball rather than the player.
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes, although I understand that the Council of Trent was a very sharp response to Luther's increasing influence on the German Church, I agree that during and after Vatican II there certainly has been a softening toward other denominations and more of a willingness to concentrate on the things that unite us rather than those that divide us.

    As far as "conditional salvation", I believe that the only condition for salvation is a total trust and faith in Christ's redemptive and substitional work on the cross.
     
  14. Unnamed Guy

    Unnamed Guy Member

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    What are you talking about? I never heard the word before.
     
  15. worshipjunkie

    worshipjunkie Active Member

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    Technically, that's true, but Vatican II did not reaffirm them.
     
  16. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    Really? The Bible names specific sins. Unforgiveness results in no forgiveness.
     
  17. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    Then by all means look it up.
     
  18. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. But where does the Bible say unforgiveness is a sin?
     
  19. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Actually I asked a question, a particular question. Your post had nothing to do with the question. I did not start a discussion on conditional salvation. I asked about unforgiveness. Most Protestants I know do not like discussion anything Catholic with Catholics. There is a blindness and Devotion to the Pope that defys logical discussion, hence it is fruitless.
     
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've been meaning to ask Pastor on a Lutheran commentary on the Lord's Prayer, specifically "Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors", as we don't think of justification as conditioned on obedience. I suppose we would say, though, that somebody that is living with serious grudges should be talking to a pastor or counselor.
     
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