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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Teens Who Savagely Attacked Well-Known DOGE Staffer Avoid Jail Time

possibly first timers in court (don't remember this one and no one answered before, but not a sticking point). Therefore, jail time was deemed excessive for this case.
Disagree, you have no idea if these kids had previous record or not. With this kind of beating, jail time was appropriate. A punch in the nose or just a black eye, no. Probation completely appropriate. A concussion beat down? No, that deserves jail time.

Guess we'll just have to disagree. But your approval for rhe sentence is juat more evidence how the left is soft on crime.
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

How much is this costing our government? While we our in a shutdown.
I'm sure its costing a lot. But it wouldn't have to cost anything if the protestors weren't obstructing and being violent toward ICE. If they quit trying to obstruct and act violent we wouldn't have to worry about cost because the agents would just do their jobs.
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Trump is right to clamp down on Portland’s Jacobins

President Donald Trump ordered the National Guard to “war ravaged Portland” last week in a move that has been a long time in coming.

Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities have been besieged for months in the Oregon city with little indication that local authorities will do anything to get control of the situation.

In early September, after a serious anti-ICE riot in which protesters violently clashed with police, Portland Mayor Keith Wilson said that he would do nothing to help the federal government enforce the law and would protect the city’s “sanctuary” status for illegal aliens.

“We will not engage with the federal immigration enforcement that goes on,” Wilson said, according to KOIN 6 News. “That is our sanctuary city goals; that is what the governor’s goals are. So you can rest assured we won’t be engaging with or working with ICE in any circumstances.”

That came after Portland’s city council plotted earlier in the year not to stop the violence but to eject ICE from the city.

It couldn’t be clearer that Portland’s leaders have little interest in getting the rioters under control outside of pressure from the Trump administration.

Now, Oregon Democrats and their legacy media defenders are doing their best to spin a tale that Portland has no problems at all, and this is just the Trump administration being real mean.

Continued below.
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The Reality of Free Will

Did God create his intelligent children with free will?
Though many whether religious or non religious claim not, and argue against this, the answer is clearly yes.

What is the proof?
There are a number of scriptures, but let's start with John 8:44


Starting with God's heavenly children - the spirit creation, called angels, the Bible says of the one called Devil and Satan... When he lies, he speaks out of his own character. That is... pertaining to self, or of his own.
The disciple James uses this term in this way...

James 1:14

Jesus thus makes clear that the angel that became Satan the Devil, acts according to his own will, or desire.
Jesus further states in the same verse, John 8:44... "your will is to do your father’s desires".
Humans too, have their own will, which is in opposition to the father.

Can sin be blamed for the will of intelligent creatures?
Jesus said, the one called Devil and Satan, "was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him".
So, no, this was a deliberate opposing of the truth. Hence, the name Satan.

It's also important to note that this angel .... in fact all of the angels... none are born in sin and shaped in iniquity.
So, sin cannot be claimed as a hinderance to free will. Nor can it be claimed that they have to give in to wrong desires.
The angels make their own decisions to do what the want. Genesis 6:2
Proof that the angels - God's heavenly children, do have free will.

Regarding humans, the same apply.
In saying that their will is to do Satan's desire, what was Jesus pointing out? They were acting on their own will. Not anyone else's.
That humans have free will is made clear in other scriptures.

1 Timothy 2:14

The Bible says Adam was not deceived.
Thus Adam acted on his own free will.
The verse says, Eve became a sinner, only after acting on her desire.
Adam and Eve were free willed agents... not driven by sin, but making free willed decisions.
Proof that humans... God's earthly children were created with free will.

Did sin somehow cancel out free will.
In the imagination of many, that is the case.
However, the Bible does not say that after sin came into the world through one man, that free will became obsolete.
Rather, the scriptures refer to man's free will, repeatedly.
Leviticus 1:3; 1 Corinthians 9:16-18 Deuteronomy 30:19; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Philemon 1:14

The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).
Please keep in mind that my comments about the "Will" are strictly in the moral/immoral context.

The definition of freewill in Greek that you have given above is an adjective, not a noun. It describes a certain type of action or choice that is uncoerced/voluntary.

Elsewhere, you identify a free will as a free agent. That term is describing a will in a state of equivocation between two masters and therefore is for all intents and purposes depicting an undecided soul in a state of equivocation ---> See doublemindedness, also understand why Jesus would say this ---> "You can't serve two masters".

Neither of these meanings are applicable to any description consistent with Adam being made with a free will. I can't actually comment on the scriptures you provided as 'proof' of a free will since the definitions of free will you provided are inconsistent. For the sake of clarity, you need to specify what the will is free from when you claim a free will.

The only coherent meaning of the term free will as a noun that I can see in scripture is a will qualified as free from sin. That would also be consistent with the free will that God gave Adam when he was created.
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Can man, without the light of faith, by his reason alone, know that God exists?

But enough that we are condemned for refusing to acknowledge it.
It looks like this whole topic/thread is not only distracting away from knowing Jesus, but may actually be preventing some souls from being saved, or trying to anyway.
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Can man, without the light of faith, by his reason alone, know that God exists?

I don't think we can come to a conclusion on the question without bringing our conclusion to it. What Paul says on the matter is not necessarily that we can, without prior understanding, reason ourselves to anything approaching God.
But enough that we are condemned for refusing to acknowledge it.
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Advice on inquiring at my local parish with four young children

Hello all,

It's been a long time since I've posted anything on CF. The last time I was active on the site, I was a member of a Baptist church. Since then, things have changed for me in my faith and the Lord has led me in a new direction. That direction is to search out Orthodoxy. I want to visit my local parish with my family as an inquirer of the Church, which has been a couple years in the making if I'm being honest. A couple years ago, I made a friend from work that is Orthodox and had converted from a protestant denomination several years prior and when he invited me and my family, I visited the Parish he's apart of with my wife and three young children. For me, the Liturgy very much stood out and the way the worship occurred and was performed, it was very apparent to me that it is distinct and different from anything I had ever experienced before. There was a certain holiness to it that I had never before witnessed in my life, if that makes sense. The problem I had during that visit was that my children (which were four years old at the time), were very difficult to keep under control without disturbing the others during the service. It was one of the reasons my wife and I were ever hesitant to return, because we felt embarrassed and overwhelmed by that dynamic. The thing is that now I can't resist the fact that I've been called to return and inquire about the Church and having looked into the faith on my own since then, I've come to the conclusion that I have to pursue it - there are so many tenants and doctrines of the faith that have come to make complete sense to me. There are still a couple things I wrestle with doctrine wise, but ultimately, my wife and I have to visit and then meet with the father of the local parish where I live and start this path. The only problem is I'm anxious about visiting with my family. The last time we had only the three kids, but now we have four. The eldest three are 7, 6, and 6 years old, and the youngest is about 10 months. What are the common strategies for families such as mine that attend Liturgy? I don't ever want to be a disruption to the others during the service, and the strategy of coming late is not something that I would really prefer, especially being inquirers of the Church with the intention of starting down this path. Also, to be fair, now that the eldest three are older, they may behave better and more naturally, but I'm not sure since Liturgy tends to be way longer than any of the protestant services we have attended in the past. The parish I will be attending has a service that is about two and a half hours long.

From what I can tell the one that I will be attending is a smaller mission and so I'm not sure if they have a room dedicated for children that become angsty and bored or disruptive. Any advice, strategies or tips? My children will behave when we correct them, but only for so long since their attention spans are so short at that age. Having to continually correct them during the service is the part I'm particularly concerned about, even if I try to do it as quietly as possible.

Thank you in advance for your time and responses. :)

There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

But how does it support the claims of ancient technology and lost knowledge? Which other GT have been named?

We know that modern humans have existed for perhaps 300k years. People's existence by itself is not strange.

Let's excavate it before it is used as evidence of anything.

But not evidence for ancient technology or lost knowledge.

Which most believe it's a natural formation.

How is volcanic glass hinting at a metallurgical precursor?

Expertly balanced? What is the meaning of that? View attachment 371822

Are you sure about the timeframe?

What are the connections to ancient technology and lost knowledge? There are archeological traces of hominids predating modern humans. That is not enough.

Empirical, based on experience. It is the normal way to learn. What do you mean?
Don't you find it frustrating you have to proof read @stevevw links as he has a long history of butchering their true meaning.
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Former Trump Adviser John Bolton Criminally Indicted

Complete and utter lack of any evidence? People unfriendly to Trump have pointed out to various problems with it, including the left-wing Vox (which, while saying some of the conservative/Republican attacks on the conviction are excessive, acknowledges there are some legitimate things to take issue with).

I didn't vote for Trump, but I still think Bragg's prosecution against him appears highly questionable and fairly blatant lawfare. Given that, I'm not going to blame anyone for not finding those convictions a reason to not evote for him. The excesses of that case probably made a good number of people take the much more credible-looking Jack Smith prosecutions less seriously.
Yes, some do see problems with Trump's criminal fraud trial, but the fact remains: the jury found him guilty, and the judge did not vacate their decision. So it stands. If an appeals court in the future sees these legal issues as being significant enough to overturn the verdict, that, and only that, will indicate to me that these problems actually make a difference. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have anywhere near the experience or knowledge of NY financial law to make a determination myself.

As to the lack of evidence, I stand by that. Legal theories and arguments are all well and good, but no one has yet been able to prove, with evidence, any actual misconduct or malfeasance in the case. And any claims of bias on the part of the judge are weakened by the sentence he imposed: an unconditional discharge. No punishment, no jail time, nothing. Not exactly the actions of someone out to get him.

I'll leave legal arguments to the appeals court, as I'm not qualified to evaluate them, but arguments are not evidence. And anyone claiming "lawfare" with this, or with James' civil case against Trump, has yet to provide any actual evidence of misconduct or malfeasance.

-- A2SG, and both guilty verdicts continue to stand....
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Teens Who Savagely Attacked Well-Known DOGE Staffer Avoid Jail Time

No the charge would have been different. Permanent injury is a Felony. This was not a felony.
Therefore, the punishment too. I'm not sure what you're arguing as we both seem to agree that with different circumstances and results, the punishment would have been different. Now there wasn't permanent injury and the kids were underage, possibly first timers in court (don't remember this one and no one answered before, but not a sticking point). Therefore, jail time was deemed excessive for this case.
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Losing friendships and Matt 24:12

Of course I do not know the people you are talking about and I don't know your church. I have found that every person is unique. So, even if a few do the same thing, this does not mean they all have the same reason!!

So, each one can speak for oneself.

And I would say Jesus did not limit Himself to some group of ones who were like Him, but He shared with all kinds of people and loved any and all people enough to invest time in loving all different sorts of people.

His love is creative, for this.

So, I would say pray and be ready for love, however God has this go.

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma."

Of course I do not know the people you are talking about and I don't know your church. I have found that every person is unique. So, even if a few do the same thing, this does not mean they all have the same reason!!

So, each one can speak for oneself.

And I would say Jesus did not limit Himself to some group of ones who were like Him, but He shared with all kinds of people and loved any and all people enough to invest time in loving all different sorts of people.

His love is creative, for this.

So, I would say pray and be ready for love, however God has this go.

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)
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Losing friendships and Matt 24:12

You are correct. There is nothing in the Bible about a peer group. At our church we have lunch between services. I have been praying about who I sit by during that lunch. I have noticed that it has worked out for me to sit by younger and older people but not my peer group. I need to be good with that. Today I sat by a 70 year old and a person around early 30's so it was good to hear their perspectives. I appreciate the thoughts. Thanks.
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Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

not if Israel stays out of the way and the Arabs provide the security force to disarm Hamas.
I'd be amazed if that materialises. I can't see Israel tolerating a regular army presence of another arab country in Gaza any better than they tolerate hamas. Besides that, if the IDF couldn't take out hamas, what makes you think the arabic militaries can do it? Think Hamas will just roll over because now it's arabs coming at them? They have no problem killing muslims. For evidence, check the OP.
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