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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Air Force to provide funeral honors to Ashli Babbitt

She did not threaten to hurt anyone. The "mob" did not hurt anyone. They protestors were allowed and guided into the building at other locations, so why assume Ashli Babbit was part of a criminal mob?
Come back to earth. The mob at the Capitol on Jan. 6th injured 140 police officers. AI overview:

Approximately 140 police officers were injured during the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol, with at least 15 requiring hospitalization, while the exact number of injured rioters is unknown. Among the officers' injuries were traumatic brain injuries, cracked ribs, and a loss of an eye. While the official number of reported police injuries was 140, some sources suggest this number may be an undercount of all physically injured officers.​
Some on the right need to get out of their conspiracies and ..untruths.
From an officer who was in the midst of it all:


Pingeon recalls his team being outnumbered and says he was punched in the face by rioters who had descended on the Capitol that day to protest the certification of the 2020 presidential election results, fueled by false claims about election fraud spread by Former President Donald Trump.​
"I was knocked on my back," Pingeon said. "My helmet came down and felt like someone was on top of me and I couldn't see anything. And I remember just thinking, I have to protect my gun, because they stole my baton."​
Pingeon wasn't injured as severely as other officers, but he has invisible scars that may never fully heal.​
From another officer:

A group of officers, mostly from the D.C. department, were holed up in the tunnel after they were overrun by rioters while in the Capitol itself. Injured cops had sequestered themselves in some adjacent tunnels, and fellow officers were trying to help them “because we couldn’t get paramedics or any type of medical assistance into the building, because it wasn’t secure at that point,” Fanone told the Wisconsin Examiner.​
Had the crowd of rioters swarming outside the tunnel managed to break through the defending line of cops, “we would have been trampled to death,” he said.​
Fanone told the committee that some in the crowd were “trying to grab hold of my gun.” He heard some shout “kill him with his own gun,” he testified. “I believe there were individuals in that crowd who intended to kill me.”​
Rioters seized Fanone, dragging him down the steps of the Capitol. They beat him with pipes, stunned him with a Taser and sprayed him with bear spray, he recalled. In the midst of the assault he had a heart attack, and he got a concussion from the blows to his head. In a broadcast months later CNN aired footage of the assault on Fanone from his own body camera.​


On Jan. 6, 2021, it was a crime scene - the site of a bloody, hourslong struggle between law enforcement and a mob of supporters of President-elect Donald Trump.​
"My fellow officers and I were punched, kicked, shoved, sprayed with chemical irritants by a violent mob," Capitol Police Sgt. Aquilino Gonell testified to Congress about his experience in the tunnel on Jan. 6. "I could feel myself losing oxygen and recall thinking to myself: 'this is how I'm going to die - defending this entrance.'"​


Ashli Babbitt and her fellow rioters broke windows to get in The police told them to stop and they did not stop. That is criminal. Ashli and her fellow mob members are criminals. Her own actions led to her death.

Stop with the false stories like in your post. They were not innocent little kids.
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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Well you certainly do not do it equally. I suppose i could go back to the threads where the Palestinians attacked Israel and see if you were as critical of them as you are with Israel. My guess is you weren't. And you most certainly are not in this thread.

I suppose you could waste all of our time doing that.

I supported Israel's right to defend itself and respond. It's how they have responded that I find obejctionable. From the 5000lb bombs dropped on apartement buidlings and hospitals to the current event of attacking an hosptal - not once, but twice -with the 2nd attack occuring 9 minutes after the intial attack. By then first responders and journalist were at the sight....and killled.

That is unacceptable targeting.

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New York Democratic Rep. Jerry Nadler says he won’t run for reelection in 2026

New York Democratic Rep. Jerry Nadler says he won’t run for reelection in 2026


WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic Rep. Jerry Nadler of New York says he will not run for reelection next year, according to an interview published Monday night by The New York Times.​
Nadler told the Times that watching then-President Joe Biden’s truncated reelection campaign last year “really said something about the necessity for generational change in the party, and I think I want to respect that.” He suggested a younger Democratic lawmaker in his seat “can maybe do better, can maybe help us more.”​

What's on your mind? Friendship Court edition.

I grew up with a calico. She wasn't mean per say but she was ornery.

Whenever she was placed outside, in just a few minutes, she would be standing at the glass door meowing to be let back in. Her meowing would get lower and sadder sounding as time went on. I remember playing around with her by coming up to her from the other side of the door and she'd reset her meowing pattern.

She didn't like being pet on the stomach. Don't remember if it was because of medical reasons or she just outright hated it. She did however love being pet on the head and back and would occasionally do little hops as I rubbed her back.

As for current pets, while my folks technically own them, I have two long haired chihuahuas I love to visit. They're absolutely precious, but they're also both real jerks.

One of them likes to kill birds that fly into the backyard windows and get dazed. According to my dad, she played around with the bird at first by pulling out its tailfeathers so it couldn't fly off before eventually snapping its neck. I remember being shocked to hear that, as she was very timid around other animals for the longest time. She's also on a diet and whenever she wants food she would just bark at my dad for a long time demanding food while he does his best to ignore her.

The other one has a strong bond with her sitter who looks after dogs for a living to the point of being possessive and bullying the other dogs. She doesn't seem to know how to play properly as whenever a dog who isn't her sister tries to play with her she just bites at them.
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How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

Universal is also merely an encompassing like term.

One can believe mankind is "universally" atoned for and still believe for example that devils are also "universally" condemned and not atoned for, which answers to your positions. You just left out that other party to the equations.

For the record many universalists do not believe there is Satanic salvation, but some, like the thread opening author do promote that.

I don't think it's feasible or necessary.
Interesting.

I see nowhere in Scripture where any atonement is ever provided for the angelic host.

Closest that I’ve ever seen is the phrase “elect angels” in 1 Timothy 5:21; but that says nothing about atonement related to angels.

Then we have Hebrews 2:16 which explains why there is no atonement for angels; because “For verily he (Christ) took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.” And this is why humanity is provided redemption but angels are not.

Also, personally I’m not a proponent of universal human atonement either.

Scripture speaks of the elect being the ones Christ died for. Those being predestined to election from the foundation of the world. None of us know who they are; other than we can know if we ourselves are elect. The only other thing that is stated about the elect is that they are represented of every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation.

As far as universal atonement goes though; the major question it raises is if no one is condemned then what anyone believes is irrelevant, thus the preaching of the gospel becomes a moot point. Also with universal atonement, no one is required to repent either. (Which isn’t supported by Scripture either.) “…. Repent and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15)
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We Don’t Need Gun Control, We Need To Classify Gender Dysphoria As A Mental Illness Again

The transgender population is only a tiny percentage of the overall population yet within the tiny transgender population the number of mass shootings is indeed high. This was not an isolated incident:
You do not have data for that so you are spreading an ...untruth, or a purely biased opinion that is unsupported. The article you posted speaks of 5 shooters in 7 years. It does NOT show that within the trans community that the number of shootings is high. You should back that up with a study or admit your statement is wrong.

Data from research does show that transgender individuals are four times as likely to suffer violent victimization than cisgender people. Plus families with a transgender member are more likely to suffer from property violence.


Screenshot 2025-09-02 103022.png


Your attempt to make out that transpeople commit a high percentage of shootings is just bigotry and hate.
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The Day of the Lord

People struggle to watch 3 minute videos. I think you went a little over.

Grok AI: Key Points from "The Day of the Lord: This Bible Message Changes Everything!"
  1. Three Distinct Days of the Lord in the Bible:
    • First Day of the Lord: Refers to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon, as warned by pre-exilic prophets (e.g., Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zephaniah) due to Israel’s rejection of God and failure to repent (Isaiah 13:6, Lamentations 2:21-22, Ezekiel 7:19, Zephaniah 1:7-8, 1:14-15).
    • Second Day of the Lord: Refers to the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome in 70 AD, as foretold by post-exilic prophets (e.g., Joel, Malachi, Zechariah) and linked to Israel’s rejection of the Messiah (Joel 1:15, 2:1-2, 2:31, Malachi 4:1, 4:5, Zechariah 14:1, Acts 2:14-21).
    • Third Day of the Lord: Refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ, a future global event involving the destruction of the heavens and earth (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 2:2, 2 Peter 3:10-13).
  2. Reasons for the Days of the Lord:
    • First Day: Caused by Israel’s rejection of the Sabbath, leading to Babylonian captivity (Leviticus 26:33-34, 2 Chronicles 36:20-21, Jeremiah 17:27, Ezekiel 20:12-20, Isaiah 58:1-2).
    • Second Day: Triggered by Israel’s creation of a counterfeit Sabbath with rigid, unbiblical rules, culminating in the rejection and crucifixion of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, for healing on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6, John 5:1-16, John 9:1-16).
    • Third Day: Suggested to result from a combination of forgetting God’s true Sabbath and enforcing a counterfeit Sabbath, potentially with deadly force, as prophesied in end-time scenarios (Revelation 14:12, 12:17, 14:6-7, Daniel 7:25).
  3. Sabbath as a Central Theme:
    • The Sabbath is a sign of God’s rest and covenant with His people, established at creation (Genesis 2:1-3) and reiterated to Israel (Exodus 20:8-11, Deuteronomy 5:12-15).
    • Israel’s failure to honor the Sabbath led to the first Day of the Lord (Babylonian destruction).
    • Misinterpreting and enforcing a counterfeit Sabbath led to the second Day of the Lord (Roman destruction).
    • The third Day of the Lord is linked to rejecting God’s true Sabbath and accepting a counterfeit, enforced by a power identified as “Mystery Babylon” (Revelation 17:5, Daniel 7:25).
  4. Rest vs. Wrath:
    • The Sabbath represents God’s rest, while rejecting it leads to God’s wrath (Hebrews 3:7-9, Revelation 6:17).
    • Israel faced wrath in the first two Days of the Lord because they rejected God’s rest by either neglecting or perverting the Sabbath.
    • At the end of time, accepting God’s rest (keeping His commandments, including the Sabbath) ensures entry into the New Jerusalem, while rejecting it leads to exclusion (Revelation 22:14-15, 21:27).
  5. End-Time Implications:
    • A remnant will keep God’s commandments and the faith of Jesus, facing persecution from a power seeking to enforce a counterfeit Sabbath (Revelation 12:17, 14:12).
    • The everlasting gospel in Revelation 14:6-7 emphasizes worshiping the Creator, echoing the fourth commandment, as a call to avoid the mistakes of the past.
    • Historical quotes (e.g., Priest Brady, 1903; Our Sunday Visitor, 1950) highlight the Roman Catholic Church’s role in establishing Sunday as a day of worship, seen as a counterfeit Sabbath.
  6. Call to Action:
    • Believers are urged to keep God’s commandments, particularly the Sabbath, to enter His rest and avoid His wrath.
    • The message warns against repeating Israel’s mistakes of forgetting or counterfeiting the Sabbath, emphasizing obedience to God’s word to prepare for the third Day of the Lord.
  7. Biblical Patterns and Warnings:
    • The Sabbath’s significance is reinforced across scriptures (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Nehemiah).
    • Nehemiah’s rebuke (Nehemiah 13:17-18) and Jesus’ healings on the Sabbath highlight the importance of correctly observing God’s commandments.
    • Revelation’s imagery of merchants outside Jerusalem (Revelation 18, Nehemiah 13) symbolizes those who prioritize worldly gain over God’s commandments, missing entry into the eternal city.
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Is This The New Normal?

Ah yes, that famously and blatantly liberal propaganda show… Law and Order.

What I think we have here is a breakdown in the fundamental definition of words. You don’t like liberals and therefore you use liberal as a synonym for “things I don’t like.” Unfortunately for you, that’s not how words work.

Nobody is saying you need to get your morality from Law and Order. I’m saying if you want to understand due process but the constitution is too big a read, start there.

Nobody is saying that people who cross the border were born here…? We are talking about protesters.

You seem confused.
We were talking about crime and leftists changing the definitions of words so it looks like things aren’t as bad as they really are.

And your condescension for anyone who doesn’t think like you is noted.
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Is This The New Normal?

Ah yes, that famously and blatantly liberal propaganda show… Law and Order.

What I think we have here is a breakdown in the fundamental definition of words. You don’t like liberals and therefore you use liberal as a synonym for “things I don’t like.” Unfortunately for you, that’s not how words work.

Nobody is saying you need to get your morality from Law and Order. I’m saying if you want to understand due process but the constitution is too big a read, start there.

Nobody is saying that people who cross the border were born here…? We are talking about protesters.

You seem confused.
Actually, I watched L&O:SVU faithfully through much of the wokeness till I could stomach it no more. From accusing religion of being fanaticism to the most liberal sexual agenda promoting storylines, I gave up on it.

I watch real life shows to understand due process. Shows like the arrested abroad shows, and Border Wars. ISTM, most leftists don’t understand due process. They claim that that means they can’t be questioned, they don’t seem to have the foggiest idea that they can be held for 24 hours for questioning, etc., without it violating due process rights. Maybe some here do know more, but I have posted several instances where I had to link information that should have been common knowledge.
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

And this relates to those pastors' sin, how?
Persistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom as it reveals and consitutes a heart turned away from God and love regardless of any talk to the contrary. And that pastor claimed to be in close contact with the HS. And perhaps he was...previously. And...perhaps he repented and returned to God later.
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Illinois Gov. Pritzker Says Chicago Is Safe As 35 Shot, 5 Dead Labor Day Weekend

Ok. If I have cocaine, it’s pretty obvious I’m breaking the law. If somebody has a gun that is illegal to own or with modifications that are illegal to have or are absent the control they need to have or in an area they’re clearly not allowed, when they are spotted, it’s obvious they’re breaking the law.
I have a splendid idea. Why not have areas that legally prohibit gun possession all together? We can call these areas "gun free zones." We can implement these "gun free zones" in any and all areas that we deem that guns have no purpose. Like public and private schools. Surly the very same criminals who disregard every gun law will obey this one and never take advantage of the fact that all the law abiding citizens will be completely unarmed in these "gun free zones."

I anyone things anything said was stupid, it is because it is stupid.
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Who then can be saved?

God saves people, through his gift (Php 1:29, 2 Peter 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3) of faith (Eph 2:8-9).
The gift of faith is the gift of salvation. . .no gift of faith, no gift of salvation.
The problem is that God has chosen to "save those who believe" (1 Cor 1:21). Believing comes first, then salvation. That they are not the same event and that faith comes first is obvious in other verses like Ephesians 2:8 which says "you have been saved through faith" and Romans 10:13-14 which says, "For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.' How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?" Believing preceeds salvation. I know this does not conform to reformed theology.
What is your explanation of Jn 3:6-8 in light of and connection to Jn 3:3-5 regarding the Holy Spirit?
God gives the right to become one of His children to everyone who receives Jesus and believes in His name (Jn 1:12). These are they who are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn 1:13). Again, God decides who He saves. And He has decided to save those who believe.
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Under RFK Jr.'s Leadership, CDC Launches Large Wasteful Study on Vaccines and Autism

I'm not sure why you're acting like this is new. The CDC long ago abandoned science and has been following a political agenda for quite some time.
Yes. They ignore science. Not too long ago the overall head of that agency was literally cooking up reports.
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Under RFK Jr.'s Leadership, CDC Launches Large Wasteful Study on Vaccines and Autism

The health america hasn't followed "actual science" in a long time. Instead, it followed profit.

Not that I'd expect that to change.
The use of science in healthcare is real and being followed. Is there a profit motive, yes. We're a capitalist country. Remove that profit motive and nationalize it, the science is still real and remains.
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Illinois Gov. Pritzker Says Chicago Is Safe As 35 Shot, 5 Dead Labor Day Weekend

What? They can obtain guns illegally, that’s the issue.
Ok. If I have cocaine, it’s pretty obvious I’m breaking the law. If somebody has a gun that is illegal to own or with modifications that are illegal to have or are absent the control they need to have or in an area they’re clearly not allowed, when they are spotted, it’s obvious they’re breaking the law.
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