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If God can replace Israel, He can replace the Church, too

If the sun still rises, God’s covenant with Israel still stands.

That’s the startling logic of Jeremiah 33where the fixed order of creation is offered as proof that God’s promises to the Jewish people are unbreakable. Yet in an age of rising theological confusion and mounting hostility toward Israel, many in the Church have begun to waver. Replacement Theology is back, often dressed in more “respectable” robes. But let’s be clear: if God can abandon Israel, then no one is safe. If He breaks that promise, why wouldn’t He break yours? Has God truly revoked His covenant? Has the Church replaced Israel in His plan? Or is the continued existence of Israel as certain as the sunrise?

The answer, resoundingly and unmistakably, is found in the mouth of the prophet Jeremiah:


These two verses are both a prophetic rebuke and a theological anchor. God Himself sets the terms: Only if the rhythm of day and night ceases — only if the laws that govern the cosmos unravel — then, and only then, would He cast off Israel.

Continued below.
Which covenant with Israel?

A covenant initiated by God cannot be changed, but it can be ended or fulfilled.

The only covenant God had/has with Israel the the Mosaic covenant and Christianity sees that covenant as fulfilled by Christ.

I do not partake of Covenant Theology, but there are several prophecies that require future fulfillment that require Israel’s participation. So even if the Mosaic covenant is fulfilled, Israel still has an important role to play.
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Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

It's all from the anti-Christian Eric (the idiot) Dubay, the same one @Apple Sky said she had sworn off.

He's not all that bad to have written this;

“The Bible, Koran, Srimad Bhagavatam, and many other holy books describe and purport the existence of a geocentric, stationary flat Earth. For example, 1 Chronicles 16:30 and Psalm 96:10 both read, “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.” And Psalm 93:1 says, “The world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.” The Bible also repeatedly affirms that the Earth is “outstretched” as a plane, with the outstretched heavens everywhere above (not all around) giving a scriptural proof the Earth is not a spinning ball.”

At least he reveals the truth.

“From Pythagoras to Copernicus, Galileo and Newton, to modern astronauts like Aldrin, Armstrong and Collins, to director of NASA and Grand Commander of the 33rd degree C. Fred Kleinknecht, the founding fathers of the spinning ball mythos have all been Freemasons! The fact that so many members of this, the largest and oldest secret society in existence have all been co-conspirators bringing about this literal “planetary revolution” is beyond the possibility of coincidence and provides proof of organized collusion in creating and maintaining this multi-generational deception.”
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Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Life in Christ, makes "interesting" look like a dead possum on the side of the road.
Not sure what that means, :scratch: , but it’s interesting that you think you manifest only good fruit. I mean, more power to you if you do, but ISTM that that would be quite the feat, even with the Holy Spirit guiding you.
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WHY WATER BAPTISM WILL DISAPPEAR AND THEN REAPPEAR !!

And will have to come to say , why. Jesus was Water Baptized as I am closing where I work .

AND you are correct that the Greek word BAPTIZED /. BAPTIZO. , is in the Aorist Tense. , Active Voice ,

in. the Indicative Mood , in the Singular .

AND if I have it right , Rom 6:4 , The Greek here is Not Baptized into the Death , is the Greek word BAPTISMA

into the Death , is in the Genitive Case. in the Signular. and in the Neuter .

See you Thursday as we are closed Wednesday.

dan p
And do you mean BAPTIZED into Christ. Jesus were Baptized into his DEATH , how did that happen. ?? Was it WATER BAPTISM

Baptism is one of the. the BIGGEST Dividers in. the Body of Christ .

Ever READ , Mark 16:16-18 , and he that BELIEVETH. and is BAPTIZED shall be Saved and these Signs. shall follow

want signs ? And where is the WATER /. HYDOR. ??

dan p
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The Harm Caused by Excessive Criticism of the Roman Catholic Church and Other Denominations

Then why are you posting here?
Is this in jest?

I am posting because the thread's topic and ecumenical outreach is reassuring to me, but I don't feel the need to defend myself or my own viewpoints from folks who seek to pigeon hole the reach of Christ to a limited basis. I have my Master I will answer to, and don't feel allowing myself to be interrogated and chastised would be of much profit.
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I Unfriended My Nieces' "Wife" on Facebook. How do you support without condoning something?

This is tough. What I have done is unfollow certain people on FB(usually friends or family members) without unfriending them.
This way I can't see their posts.
When you unfollow someone, their posts will no longer show up in your feed, but they are still on your friends list, and they can still see your posts(unless they unfollow you) If you want to see their posts you have to go to their profile directly.
This is what I have done in the case of a family member whose posts were offensive to me, but I didn't want to unfriend them.
Thanks for the information!
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Canon law expert Edward Peters is third faculty member fired by Detroit archbishop

You think? I mean, how obvious can you get? I’d like to hear @Chrystal-J ‘s thoughts on this. She lives in the area.
I heard that the bishop was very against the traditional Latin mass and forbade it's practice in the diocese. But, that's all I've heard at that level in the Church. I mainly just go to Mass and do the rosary, read the bible and pray at home.
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Watch: CNN Cuts Tulsi Gabbard Off as She Lays Out the Inconvenient Facts of the Russia Hoax

The quotation is indented and italicized, which is another acceptable way to indicate a quote.

Additionally, the post makes a claim: "Naw, it's the other way around. Trump hasn't shut up about Biden this time or Obama last time and again since the Epstein debacle."

Then a link to a source is provided. Then a quote from the source, formatted in a way to indicate that it is a quote, is given to back up the claim.

Simply copying and pasting an article does not constitute real "discussion" in a discussion forum. It's good form to at least provide some of your own thoughts, since you are the person participating in the discussion, not the author you're quoting.
People often post a link and then a quote from it or vice versa, I have done it myself.
Sometimes the excerpt speaks for itself and there's no need to comment
The only problem I have with the post that you and Hans have singled out is the length of it.
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Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Sure.
God has the power to guide us, and protect us from temptation, which would be a requirement for a sin to be committed. (James 1:14-15)
in fact, this is written for us..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1Cor 10:13)

A seed, no matter what kind it is, can only bring forth after its own progenitor.
Christians have been reborn from God's seed, so can no longer bring forth Adam's fruit.
Do you do it?
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Democrats Get Lowest Rating From Voters in 35 Years, WSJ Poll Finds

I don't know why working class voters support the GOP. It's been called "voting against their own interests" for as long as I remember.

I think its because the working class has realized their support for Democrats have gotten them nowhere. Their values are no longer the values of the Democratic party who have forsaken them for radical leftist ideology and elitism. Whereas the Republicans have cut their taxes, provided better economies and lower inflation. Combine that with a support of working class values the Republicans have given them a better way.

Your statement is rather elitist and provides another reason why Democrats have lost them.

Who is really responsible for Salvation?

I did provide some scripture for you earlier, but you mentioned that "you would not read it" because "you disagreed with my statements about predestination and blindness". So I will repost here. WIth a slightly modified statement on blindness.

Calvinism states that God premits blindness for a portion of humanity, not giving them sight. But that is not how the Bible describes blindness. Here are a few scriptures:

Rom 1:18-21 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

2Th 2:11-12 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​


In both of these cases God gives a “reason” for blindness, a love of sin, and lack of thankfulness. These things occur "before" a person is made blind. These passages must be taken into account whenever you hear blindness used in scripture. This blindness can occur at different times in a persons life, Judas as an example, was already perceived as a “Devil” at the time Jesus met him. God then used him (Judas) for a negative plan.

You mentioned there are no verses in the Bible that support the idea of free will. But that is untrue. There are many scriptures that give an “IF”, even Cain was given an if moment:

Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."​

God was not lying to Cain, if Cain did well he could be accepted. This is the same with cities, and nations.

Jer 18:7-10 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.​

But this “IF” this choice is all throughout scripture in the OT. Now let’s look at a few scriptures regarding salvation:

Job 36:10-12 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity. If they obey and serve Him, They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures. But if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge.​

Job 36:10-12 above clearly shows how God give two “Salvation” choices to people, one of life one of death.

(SOme versions of) Calvinism forces salvation on given individuals, stating that God gifts the Holy Spirit to people not based upon any obedience, choice, etc. Just because God desires it. This is the same as Fatalism which was fought by the Early Church.

The reality of receiving the Holy Spirit is much different.

Joh 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—​

Joh 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.​

The above scriptures which “are” talking about the Holy Spirit show that our response to God’s word, our obedience, leads to receiving the Holy Spirit. Judas who asked how blindness and sight works, was told by Jesus that obedience to God was the key. Those who obey “first” then receive the love of the Father. "First" meaning after God reaches out with His saving word. This is the same as the other passages I shared on blindness, blindness only occurs to those who “had pleasure in unrighteousness”.

Note I do not believe we are saved by our deeds, but that these scripture show there is a choice made by us. To explain this a little better. When we marry a person, we don't just put on a ring and say "I am married". We date, investigate the persons character, this is the same with salvation. When a person chooses to follow Christ, they "see" His character of forgiveness, and love, but also HIs desire for obedience. Although being married to Jesus (figuratively) is what saves, we also "choose" based upon knowing His character. A part of that is "knowing" that in order to be married to Christ, we will have to obey Him.

That's why the scripture states:

Joh 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

People who see the character of Jesus but wish to remain in their sin, are not eventually, saved.
I notice that you cut out my scriptures regarding the meaning of “predestined”. You don’t have anything to say about it?

I read your scriptures about the “IF” passages, and one thing I note is that God’s talking to people or nations that are evil, or have hardened hearts. And while God may have been sincere in saying He would have blessed them if they turned from evil and put their faith in Him, he knew they wouldn’t. It’s like Jesus saying that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven, or when He says he hasn’t come to call the righteous but the sinners to repentance. He is talking about hardened hearts and the fact that someone who is rich or who sees himself as righteous, isn’t going to respond to the call.

I’ll have to respond to the others tomorrow. It’s late here.
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Who is really responsible for Salvation?

These are just a few quotes. All of them support my argument that the ECF’s did teach the elect and predestination.
They use the term "elect" but that does not mean God selected some for salvation, and some for damnation, with no foresight to good works or deeds. I will do some more research into Clement, because he does appear to believe in "foreknowledge" (from your quote), but foreknowledge is different to choosing a person for salvation, it just means that God "somehow" knew.

I am being honest with you, and investigating his views on "foreknowledge", you be honest with me when I quote their beliefs regarding Free Will (below).

1. This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” (Mat 23:37) set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. (Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202], Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 37)​

But lest some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever happens, happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain. We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Since if it be not so, but all things happen by fate, neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it be fated that this man, e.g., be good, and this other evil, neither is the former meritorious nor the latter to be blamed. And again, unless the human race have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be. But that it is by free choice they both walk uprightly and stumble, we thus demonstrate. We see the same man making a transition to opposite things. Now, if it had been fated that he were to be either good or bad, he could never have been capable of both the opposites, nor of so many transitions. But not even would some be good and others bad, since we thus make fate the cause of evil, and exhibit her as acting in opposition to herself; or that which has been already stated would seem to be true, that neither virtue nor vice is anything, but that things are only reckoned good or evil by opinion; which, as the true word shows, is the greatest impiety and wickedness. But this we assert is inevitable fate, that they who choose the good have worthy rewards, and they who choose the opposite have their merited awards. For not like other things, as trees and quadrupeds, which cannot act by choice, did God make man: for neither would he be worthy of reward or praise did he not of himself choose the good, but were created for this end; nor, if he were evil, would he be worthy of punishment, not being evil of himself, but being able to be nothing else than what he was made (Justin Martyr 110-165 - First Apology - Ch 43)​
With further investigation I will see what they believed fully. But Clement is a massive big book, so it may take a while for me to respond.

If you want to see arguments for and against Free Will from the ECF (that I have read) see The Way and Free Will it summarises both.
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