• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Ted Cruz torches Tim Kaine for describing God-given rights as 'very, very troubling'

Again, I’m not going to belabor the point because I realize the CO section is more a “Christianity is perfect” audience and less one who truly wants to talk about nuances of Christianity and other religions and their redeeming values, overlapping theological beliefs, and meeting followers of said religions via those avenues. I also realize there are some religions that no matter what they do well, a combination of fear and lack of information beyond stereotypes (like Islam), some Christians feel like acknowledging that is somehow a betrayal.

I’ll just say, after an extensive, multi-year deep dive into Islam, all the outs that Christian’s have to wash away the violent, unfavorable parts of the Bible exist for Muslims as well for their faith. Extremism is a problem for both faiths, then the masses who know no better judge the whole based on the few extremists. Again, Islam will be the predominate religion in only a decade or so. If Christianity/Christians don’t at least try to understand, build bridges, and drop the stereotypes and refusal to learn… We will go from being a prominent minority to just an average intolerant, obsolete minority.
There can be no harmony between Christ and Belial. Islam, at its core, is a violent religion. The only way to remove that element is to divorce it from the life of Muhammad and its historic interpretation by its most renowned scholars. Some Muslims are trying to do exactly that by adopting a Koran-only understanding, but doing so renders the Koran unintelligible because there is no context in it just a jumble of disjunctive statements.

As for your comments about Islam being the majority, what Christians need to prepare for in that case is not joining forces or understanding Islam but preparing for life as a dhimmi and preparing to engage in subterfuge.

You keep avoiding addressing my main point as if it isn't there, which is that the "correct" version of Islam is always going to be the one practiced by Muhammad, and anyone with knowledge of the hadith and sira knows that Muhammad was a very evil man who used Islam to satisfy his every evil desire.
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BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

The animal sacrifices are among the commandments of God; During the millennial period, Gods peoples will be keeping the commandments of God. Therefore, there will be animal sacrifices in the millennial kingdom.
In my view, during the Millennial kingdom they will make atonement sacrifices as commanded by Moses. You argue that atonement sacrifices are not necessary anymore, which is a problem for my view, in many peoples opinion.

To that, I made two arguments. First, as Paul said, it was never possible for atonement sacrifices to take away sins. It wasn't possible then, and so it won't be possible in the future. Therefore, any future atonement sacrifices will not be insulting to the cross or Jesus Christ. Second, while the original purpose of the atonement sacrifices was reconciliation with God, the atonement sacrifices will serve a different purpose in the millennial kingdom.
I do believe that the atonement sacrifices will be offered for atonement. In order to understand this, we need to abandon our erroneous view of the sacrifices. Christians tend to think of the sacrifices in economic terms, which is foreign to Moses. According to the penal-substitution theory of the atonement, if one commits a sin, which is understood as a debt to divine justice, one owes God a lamb, a goat, or a bull until the debt is paid. This model, this interpretation of the sacrifices is not Biblical.

What is the actual purpose of the atonement sacrifice? If one were to offer God a lamb as payment for sins, then it would no longer be called "a sacrifice." When we pay our electric bill, for instance, we are not making an offering to the power company; we are providing money to the power company in exchange for the delivery of electricity. The sacrifice of a lamb is an offering to God to signify contrition and to appeal for reconciliation, not a financial compensation. The Lord, through Moses, gave those living under the original covenant the means whereby the penitent might give expression to righteous sentiments.

The atonement sacrifice was offered to give outward expression to a (supposed) inward attitude toward the situation. The atonement sacrifice speaks to the issue of sin, in a visible way, agreeing with God's opinion of the situation. If a man wants to seek reconciliation with God, he must act as if he agrees with God's opinion on the matter. God doesn't need sacrifices, sometimes he doesn't want then, and he says he hates them. But he is willing to offer reconciliation to a man (or woman) who make an offering in genuine and sincere contrition.

The Lord didn't institute the sacrifices for his own sake, he instituted them for the sake of his people. His people need and want a means to give expression to righteous sentiment. A man doesn't need to offer a lamb to find reconciliation with God; but the man offers the lamb in order to give heart-felt expression to his opinion concerning his sin. He tells God, "I agree with you Lord. What I did was wrong, evil, and deserves your wrath. Please accept my apology and restore me to your favor."

Even Christians, who already know that reconciliation with God came through the blood of Christ, get on their knees and pray for forgiveness when they sin. Some Christians seek a tangible way to give expression to their heart-felt contrition, perhaps confessing sins to a priest, or perhaps giving to charity, or what-have-you. The point is, those who are weak in faith both need and want ritualistic forms of heart-felt attitudes toward God. Mankind invented religion for that purpose. The Lord, through Moses, gave his people certain religious forms, done properly, so that his people might have a tangible way to express righteous sentiments.

The essential and highest purpose of the Millennial kingdom is to bring about the sanctification of God's name on earth. In order to understand the form of that period, we must first understand the problem.

To begin, let's review Paul's argument in Romans chapter 2, where he brings the Jews under condemnation of sin. In chapter one, he brings the entire world under sin, but Paul knows the opinion of his fellow Jews, especially those who teach the people. Such men wrongly believe that teaching the Bible is impressive to God and worthy of his favor. Paul will argue against that perspective, that teaching the Bible does not give anyone special favor with God.
But, without explaining the entire chapter I want to focus on this section, particularly the last verse.

Romans 2:17-24
But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.
How was God's name blasphemed among the Gentiles? Paul asserts that one can find this doctrine in the prophets somewhere. Here are two -examples. -
Ezekiel 36:20-38
Ezekiel briefly recounts Israel's history and why her exile is the basis for Gentile blaspheme. And to this end, I want to focus on the first half of that argument here.

Ezekiel 36:16-21
Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Son of man, when the house of Israel was living in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds; their way before Me was like the uncleanness of a woman in her impurity. Therefore I poured out My wrath on them for the blood which they had shed on the land, because they had defiled it with their idols. Also I scattered them among the nations and they were dispersed throughout the lands. According to their ways and their deeds I judged them. When they came to the nations where they went, they profaned My holy name, because it was said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord; yet they have come out of His land.’ But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went.
From the Lord's point of view, he exiled his people for the cause of disobedience and especially for idolatry. He scattered his people among the nations on purpose. But from the Gentile's point of view, God was weak and ineffective as a leader and unable to keep a people for himself. Other Gods conquered Yahweh, defeated him and took his people away from him. As they say, "These are the people of the Lord; yet they have come out of His land."

The ancient peoples did not believe in a monotheistic, single God. They were polytheists, believing that many gods exist and that the gods fight with each other for supremacy. The victor was known as "god almighty." According to the ancients, the god who ruled supreme was "god almighty," the god who ruled over all the others.
But no one god ruled the entire world. Each god had his own area of influence; each god had his own land. The first god may fight with a second god and take the people of the second god has spoil. From this perspective, the ancient peoples concluded that Yahweh, who had control over "his land", defeated the gods of Egypt and took a people for himself and brought them to his land. But later, another god defeated Yahweh and took them away from his land to other lands. In the mind of the Gentiles, this was proof that Yahweh was not god almighty. He can be defeated.

The Lord tells Ezekiel that he allowed his people to be taken. It wasn't that another, stronger god defeated Yahweh and took his people away. He allowed the other nations to take his people away because they defiled his land. He sent them into exile because of disobedience and idolatry.

But the nations where they went understood history quite differently. They believed that another, stronger god defeated Yahweh, who was not able to keep a people, not able to protect a people, not able to teach a people, not able to provide a place where people can live peacefully in service to Yahweh.
While this was NOT true, this blaspheme was always left unchallenged. This lie persists because God has not yet proven otherwise. And this lie will remain unchallenged until God proves himself. It isn't enough to destroy the earth with a big whoosh and bring about the NHNE, because the lie must be proved in history while this world still exists.

Jesus taught his disciples to pray "Our father, make your name holy . . ." As Christians, We await the day when Yahweh proves himself among the nations. And he will offer proof while history is running its course.

The Lord tells Ezekiel that he intends to prove himself among the nations, demonstrating the truth and giving evidence, by experience, that Yahweh is truly God Almighty. In order to prove himself among the nations, he will bring his people back from exile, circumcise their hearts, have them keep and obey his commandments, and protect them from their enemies. And that last part is very important. In order to sanctify his name, vindicate himself from the charge that he is weak and ineffective against the other gods, he will bring the chief of all the so-called gods, Satan, against his people one last time, and this time Yahweh will defeat him.

Since disobedience of his commandments was one of two reasons why God allowed his people to be taken, then obedience of his commandments will mark the time when God is proving himself among the nations. Not only will his people keep all of his commandments, they will do so willingly because he has circumcised their hearts.
And number. one there is other will be any more atonement for SINS,

#1 THERE will be. be the Burnt offering

# 2 A SINNING OFFERING

# 3. The Trespass offering

# 4 The Peace Offering

#5 THE. Mealing gfferingb

# 6 The drink offering. and are all found in. Eze 40 :39 - Eze 45:17

dan p
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This is the scariest verse in the bible for believers

I do wish there was an easier way. I’ve tried many times in many ways to encourage believers to share the Gospel.

The trick is to use an indirect approach, one that relies on attracting people to church rather than trying to push the Gospel on them, because decades of annoying and intrusive attempts by Mormon, J/W and other heretics to push their false religions on people have made it very difficult and in many cases impossible to spread the gospel simply by talking about it, since the devil has, through heretical cults, trained many people to not want to discuss religion. This is obviously bad, so what we have to do is show them the Gospel by actually loving our neighbors as we love ourselves. Also concerts, weddings and funerals are a great way to introduce people to a particular church; no Christian should have a wedding anywhere other than their church and clergy should refuse to perform weddings in country clubs and other inappropriate locations, since these events, weddings and funerals, are an opportunity for us to welcome our neighbor with hospitality.

Orthodox Christians have also been blessed with one other tool, that being many of our churches were founded by ethnic minorities with delicious food and beautiful cultures that people are either actively drawn to, the Greek Orthodox have this, or are unfamiliar with and might attend for reasons of curiosity, for example, Georgians, Armenians, Copts, Serbians, Romanians, Bulgarians and Assyrians, to name a few of the many ethnicities. Likewise Lutheran churches were typically associated with German or Scandinavian or Baltic immigrants, and people will attend those festivals (California Lutheran University has a Lutheran festival), and I could see Presbyterian churches or Episcopalian and other American Anglican churches, which are of Scottish origin, having Scottish festivals or Anglo-Scottish festivals. And during Christmas, the popular service known as 9 Lessons and Carols, among Anglican and other Western churches, if church has a good choir and organist, should be on the menu, as well as caroling.* ( Any excuse for a public celebration at the church is good, because it will attract people.)

*Chrisrmas Caroling is still accepted in parts of the US and is the last form of religious approach to people’s doors that is likely to be received. Also, the Salvation Army and the Moravians have a good thing with their brass choirs that perform in public locations.
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Trump says suspect in custody in killing of Charlie Kirk

If true, then it was Charlie Kirk's own words and attitude towards the transgender community, and not rhetoric from the left, that angered Tyler Robinson and led to his decision to assassinate him.
Yeah, like the girl who wore a short skirt deserved to get raped. Another disgusting post from you.
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Prayer requests post here!

Pray for me to be able to pray today, as I'm struggling and unidentified demons are distracting me from my attempts to pray, my ineptitude will not allow me to pray other than surely by intercession of the Lord

Demons don’t like us praying. Please talk to your priest, be sure to make the sign of the Cross as demons really dislike that, and please be at liturgy tomorrow for the Exaltation of the Cross or the beginning of the Ecclesiastical Year depending on your jurisdiction, and if you can, if its not too late where you live, get to Vespers or Vigils tonight as well..
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Man tossed bomb into California courthouse, injuring six, authorities say. “Liberty or death”

Unless you're going to ban everything that can cause death, then gun control becomes obsolete. Take away guns, then it's replaced with bombs, arson, stabbings, etc. It's moral decay that people should be worried about.
I was thinking earlier. Instead of just banning things that can kill, like...I dunno...pointy sticks and cricket bats and socks full of rocks, why don't we look at things that are really dangerous, like a ton of steel barreling down the road at 80mph, inches from other lumps of motorised death on wheels heading in the other direction and license them and make people take tests on how to use them and do random stops to check if they're under the influence and limit the types that can be driven? Like that idea? Yeah, me too.

And then when we've done that we can look at things that are specifically designed and made to kill people and do something similar.

What do you think?
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GOP, Democratic leaders react to Charlie Kirk shooting

Do you honestly think that they let people fly "jumbo jets" with "NO experience?"
Seriously?

You can tell us that. Substantiating it with checkable links is quite another issue. Show us what you have.

Yes. And I know because I know people who are pilots for the airlines and read the communiques.
But you can't show us any evidence at all?

Truth is truth no matter who believes it.
Evidence shows truth. Do you understand how implausible it is, to claim that airlines let people fly "Jumbo jets" with "No experience?"
And now you can't show any evidence for it.
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Prayer requests post here!

Pray for me to be able to pray today, as I'm struggling and unidentified demons are distracting me from my attempts to pray, my ineptitude will not allow me to pray other than surely by intercession of the Lord

Kyrie eleison.

O Lord, who art everywhere present and fillest all things, we ask that, through the intercession of the Theotokos, St. Michael the Archangel, St. Anthony the Great, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, St. Seraphim of Sarov and all the saints, Thou would vouchsafe to protect Thy servant Seraphim from demonic interference in his prayer, that He may worship our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who reigns with Thee, our Helper and Paraclete, in the unity of the unoriginate Father, ever one God, amen. +
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

It is not a statement of fact for some given some people have excused him of it.
Nor is a statement of fact changed by accusation.
Maybe. But you also went straight into "defend Trump mode" instead of just answering, what SHOULD be a very simple question.
Was it meant to be only a simple question?
Or was it meant to be an implied accusation?

You don' have to be a rocket scientist to know the difference.
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Trump says suspect in custody in killing of Charlie Kirk

If true, then it was Charlie Kirk's own words and attitude towards the transgender community, and not that of the left, that angered Tyler Robinson and led to his decision to assassinate him.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

There is no additional language allowing you to kill someone over words or if you're angry.

This was premeditated. He engraved the bullets. He drove the three to four hours to the site. He arrived hours early. He changed clothes. He climbed up on the roof. He aimed through the scope. Plenty of chances to get that anger under control.

He shot Charlie, and then he ran. He climbed down off the roof, dumped the rifle in the nearby woods, and drove the three to four hours home. He didn't turn himself in, at least not until he was identified, and his father got involved.

No, this was more than anger. Anger is fleeting. Hate is ongoing. It had to have been hate. Hate fed his anger, I think. Even his own family member(s) called it hate.

AI: Hate can be seen as a deeper, more sustained form of anger where the object of hatred feels like a threat and is seen as an obstacle to be eliminated rather than a situation to be changed, according to Psychology Today and After Psychotherapy. Both emotions are powerful and can be fuelled by fear, insecurity, and a desire for revenge, often leading to aggression and negative actions.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
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Ted Cruz torches Tim Kaine for describing God-given rights as 'very, very troubling'

It's not simply about being able to explain it, as I said it's not just that violence exists within the Koran. It's that the "best of people" according to Islam embraced the violence when he had the power to, and that the context and proper interpretive framework(where ayah conflict the later ayat abrogates the earlier one) renders the violent verses the final word on the matter. You seem to ignorantly assume that the verses of violence are aberant to the core message of Islam, when in fact outside of groups that add another messianic figure to the mix in the Ahmadiya Islam is consistently interpreted by Muslim authorities to embrace violence.

No, I'm not simply taking verses out of context, but looking at what historic Islamic authorities have said on the matter. It's not just about extremists, when I say "fundamentalist" that is quite different from extremist, it is saying that they are practicing the religion most in keeping with the historic and consistent manner.

Except there's no reason to make such a switch.

No, I'm pointing out that the central figure of Islam, Muhammad, acted far more in line with the terrorists than with those who don't wage war.

The issue is, when a Muslim beheads an infidel they are acting as Muhammad acted. Did Jesus go around shooting people?
Again, I’m not going to belabor the point because I realize the CO section is more a “Christianity is perfect” audience and less one who truly wants to talk about nuances of Christianity and other religions and their redeeming values, overlapping theological beliefs, and meeting followers of said religions via those avenues. I also realize there are some religions that no matter what they do well, a combination of fear and lack of information beyond stereotypes (like Islam), some Christians feel like acknowledging that is somehow a betrayal.

I’ll just say, after an extensive, multi-year deep dive into Islam, all the outs that Christian’s have to wash away the violent, unfavorable parts of the Bible exist for Muslims as well for their faith. Extremism is a problem for both faiths, then the masses who know no better judge the whole based on the few extremists. Again, Islam will be the predominate religion in only a decade or so. If Christianity/Christians don’t at least try to understand, build bridges, and drop the stereotypes and refusal to learn… We will go from being a prominent minority to just an average intolerant, obsolete minority.
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Erika Kirk Delivers Powerful National Address, Says Movement Will Not Die

I have a political agenda - or I did. My agenda was to explain to people who didn't know or understand what myself and others generally on the right vote for and why.

Charlie thought we could convince people of our point of view but that was not my intention, I thought it was too far fetched a dream - I was just hoping for a sense of understanding, a place we could meet as Americans once again, a common ground.

I stopped talking about politics pretty much altogether in February (a full 6 months ago) because of the devolution of political dialogue even on websites like this because not even Christians could come together and have dialogue anymore, and trying to explain where the right was coming from seemed wholly unfruitful.

Charlie was martyred - murdered in cold blood - simply for trying to talk to others about his points of view and offering people the chance to debate with him about the topics of our day.

I quit talking because I don't know where we go from here, and now with Charlie Kirk dead months after I gave up, I still don't know where we go from here.

When it's not safe to speak, when evil people in positions of power celebrate the death of conservative speakers (doctors, teachers, etc), and or call for their assassination we have lost everything this country once stood for.
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Does spiritual growth increase emotional intelligence?

Christian spiritual growth involves psychological work regarding personal sins and out of control desires. The exercise of "taking thoughts captive" results in more "emotional intelligence." However, since this emotional intelligence results in an awareness of "sin" and it's role in the creation as it is now ... it won't at all conform to the worldly models found in self help literature.

Christian spiritual growth also involves a form of spiritual warfare. Since Christians are aware of the existence of demons, and God, and their worldly contemporaries are not .. this further increases the chasm of perception.
according to exorcist Fr Rippberger a large portion of the church do not want to know about the existence of spiritual warfare or demons despite christianity large part is about the spiritual. He say the church has become atheistic in those respects. It is largely rejected, not want to talk about, never heard about. say Rippberger. denying the supernatural.
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Who then can be saved?

In all the covenants is the underlying principle of “I will be their God and they will be my people”.
The new covenant specifies this union because it's the one major piece necessary in man finally coming to be justifed. Adam had "unjustified" us by his rejection of God as his God, as man wished to go it alone, and even the old covenant had not yet resolved the matter because the law only ended up being a tutor, convicting us of sin as it revealed our injustice, rather than giving us the ability to be free from and overcome it. "No one will be justifed by the law", IOW. They needed more.
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’”
Matt 15:8-9

There's only one way to be justifed and that is by God, by virtue of that very union with Him. And this is why reconciliation with God, something the old covenant sacrifices could never obtain, is at the center of the gospel. That's to become "My people" because reconciliation is not merely a declared status, but is the relationship that man was created for, a relationship that is meant to begin in this world and to grow unto eternal life. Through Adam man had lost "the knowledge of God", which is why we don't know Him from birth. And knowledge of God, as revealed accurately and fully by His Son, is directly related to this reconciled relationship, because to truly know God is to begin to believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, to love Him:
"No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord."
Jer 31:34

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3
But you still can’t place yourself in the situation of someone who turns his back on Christ and goes back to making animal sacrifices because YOU have never made animal sacrifices. THAT is the underlying crux of the part of the verse that says “since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.” Every time they sacrifice an animal for the same sins Christ died for, they are sacrificing the Son of God again.
But it doesn't say that; it just says this:
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. Heb 6:4-6

It's simply to turn back to the flesh, to man instead of God. And that, as well, applies to all as Paul warns the Galatian believers:
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." Gal 6:7-8

And to the Romans he says:
"If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." Rom 11:17-22
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I love deep thinking especially God/end times/bible/do something for God anyone that can think deep or INFJ introvert etc here?

Yet you seem to have a problem with people that socialize and chit chat for the pure joy of being in one another’s company. You even called them superficial. Not everything is a bottomless pit of deep discussion or navel gazing. As you said, we are all different and the true gift is in enjoying those differences. Not everyone is called to the same vocations, we all have different gifts but those vocations and gifts do not keep us prisoner and make us look down our noses at others as if we are setting our own personal caste system. Jesus is our foundation. Not us.
that is not what i am saying. what i am saying is, inclusiveness and acceptance
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