prudent_commenter said:

I rarely see someone that "goes deep" and isn't changed by that which it went in depth.

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And you wont, it is rarely obvious.

Say it aint so said:

White Evangelical Christians. The Moral Majority. And yes, Trump does see it as a power bloc where he shares nothing come that faith.

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That's actually funny. White. Evangelical. Christians. Where's the emphasis in this label? White, evangelical, or Christian? "Progressives" tend to think all three are bad. Yeah, that's really going to get "Progressives" the "Whites," "evangelicals," and Christian votes.

Somehow I don't think "White Evangelical Christians" are the only ones who're hoping to eventually go to Heaven, or reach Nirvana, or whatever you want to think comes later. I really don't. Atheists, who look forward to a dreamless sleep of non-existence, are excepted. And no, that's not a slur. Isaac Asimov said as much in an essay. And yet when we have a public figure express the same thing most are hoping for, in the exact same way, by "good works," then it's immediately labeled as appealing to an imaginary "voting block," even though Christians immediately pick up on how it's trusting in one's own works and not Christ.

Taken at face value, Trump's statement is no different than an average American saying "I'm a good person. I hope I make it to Heaven." None.

Apple Sky said:

Neither do I, going deep into a subject is gift from God.

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Only if it doesn't affect you.

Going deep can have two possible outcomes: A) it changes you; or B) or has no effect on you.

It's only a blessing if can't get inside you. Otherwise, it's just a "passion" that you have.

I rarely see someone that "goes deep" and isn't changed by that which it went in depth.

David Lamb said:

Yet you repeatedly expect those of us who do believe that the moon landings happened to provide you with evidence that they did.

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Not at all............ Evidence proves they didn't go to the moon.

David Lamb said:

Not so, in my view. Psalm 148 has the psalmist saying "praise Him" to angels, sun, moon and stars:

“2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts! 3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!” (Ps 148:2-3 NKJV)

Valetta had said that the psalmist was praying to angels. If that is so, he seems also to have been praying to sun, moon and stars, and of course he wasn't.

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The Psalm is calling all the works of creation to praise God. It is as Jesus rode on a donkey into Jerusalem to cries of Hosana and the scribes told Him to quiet the crowd. If they were quieted, the rocks and stones themselves would sing
I do not know how you interpret this as praying to the Sun, moon and stars

The Liturgist said:

Psalm 148 is not the only Psalm which exhorts angels to praise God.

Of course there is plenty of other Scriptural support for seeking the intercession of the saints including the angels. In the Eastern Orthodox Church we venerate all the bodiless powers on the feast known as the Synaxis of the Holy Archangels and Other Bodiless Powers on November 8th, which is directly comparable to Michaelmas, which the Antiochian Western Rite Vicarate celebrates on September 29th along with the other three traditional angelic feasts, of the Guardian Angels, of St. Gabriel and of St. Raphael.

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I know that there are other psalms mentioning angels praising God. But that doesn't affect the matter, because there are psalms other than Psalm 148 which make mention of natural phenomena praising God. For example:

“Let heaven and earth praise Him, The seas and everything that moves in them.” (Ps 69:34 NKJV)

But the psalmist wasn't asking the angels or the seas to pray for him. Where is the "plenty of other Scriptural support for seeking the intercession of the saints including the angels?" I cannot think of a single verse where somebody requests prayer of an angel or a Christian already in heaven. There are plenty of examples of Christians on earth requesting prayer of other Christians on earth.

Robban said:

Remember this song from a juke box in Kingston Jamaica like it was yesterday

Login to view embedded media
I think it was my first hearing of doo wop

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Mind readers or what?

not so dramatic but still ..... Just come across this vid without searching for it.

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Massive sowing, Small yield

SOMA

I’ve had a few jobs that I absolutely despised. Retail and manufacturing. Awful. The people, the tasks. So petty and banal.

Luckily my foreverjob has folks I consider friends, great working conditions with a varied tasks and duties.

David Lamb said:

Not so, in my view. Psalm 148 has the psalmist saying "praise Him" to angels, sun, moon and stars:

“2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts! 3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!” (Ps 148:2-3 NKJV)

Valetta had said that the psalmist was praying to angels. If that is so, he seems also to have been praying to sun, moon and stars, and of course he wasn't.

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Psalm 148 is not the only Psalm which exhorts angels to praise God.

Of course there is plenty of other Scriptural support for seeking the intercession of the saints including the angels. In the Eastern Orthodox Church we venerate all the bodiless powers on the feast known as the Synaxis of the Holy Archangels and Other Bodiless Powers on November 8th, which is directly comparable to Michaelmas, which the Antiochian Western Rite Vicarate celebrates on September 29th along with the other three traditional angelic feasts, of the Guardian Angels, of St. Gabriel and of St. Raphael.

It greatly depends on the individual.

The scripture enforces the idea of not being alone, and getting married. But that is because of what happens if you cannot handle it. Being alone, requires a full control of your mind and body. If you have no disciple, and if you don't take the scripture to heart, it will cause you to sin.
In a world where everywhere you go, you see temptation, it is harder to abstain from it alone than with someone. Sin always comes when you think no one is watching, and that's what singleness is. When God said that man shouldn't be alone, this is what He meant.

Now, if you can handle it, it is to be considered a blessing. You are saved from sin. And why? Chances of divorce are high (because people have no idea what to look for in a marriage). Per the scripture, you are not allowed to divorce unless someone commits adultery. Adultery isn't done, there's no reason to divorce. And, in a marriage, you took vows to your spouse and to God. You don't respect those vows to both your wife and God, it is sin.
Which is the bigger sin; breaking your vows to God, or remaining single?

Guojing said:

It has nothing to do with science.

It is about the logic of his reasoning.

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According to Christ, who is Reason personified, the divine Logos (the word Logos is a Greek word from which we get the word Logic, and to be for Reason is to be prologoi, and to be unreasonable is to be alogoi - St. Epiphanios of Cyprus in an amusing pun referred to an obscure heretical sect which rejected the Gospel of John, which is noteworthy for beginning a declaration of the deity of Christ and His incarnation, starting with “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” the logic of my friend @MarkRohfrietsch is sound.

According to the the Gospel of John chapter 6:47-58 1 Corinthians 11:17-26 and the corresponding institution narratives in the three synoptic Gospels, at the Last Supper Christ our True God caused the bread and wine to be His Body, broken for many, and Blood, the Blood of the New Covenant, and instructed us to partake of His Precious Body and Blood for the remission of sins and life everlasting, and warned that those who refuse to partake of His Body and Blood that they would not inherit eternal life.

St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 further warned that those who partake unworthily, not discerning the Body and Blood of our Lord, put themselves at risk of sickness and death.

However for those who partake worthily, and the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, like @MarkRohfrietsch ’s church the Lutheran Church of Canada, and its North American communion partners the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and the American Association of Lutheran Churches (which was formed of conservative parishes of the American Lutheran Church which did not want to join ELCA, and entered into altar and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS in 1989) are extremely careful to ensure that members who partake do so in a manner that is safe according to 1 Corinthians 11:27-34.

Thus, while not all Orthodox churches in the US used a shared spoon during the pandemic (I recall GoArch making use of individual spoons, which was extremely controversial and caused many people to leave either for another canonical church or for one of the many Greek Old Calendarist jurisdictions), among those that did there were no reports of any problems as a result

MarkRohfrietsch said:

In my own parish, those who got it seem to have gotten it elsewhere; it was (is) a virulent virus, and in the secular world, spread by many means. Those in my parish that did get it (almost everyone) stayed away out of courtesy and respect for others. I worked in Automotive as an engineer, I had it (with positive tests) 4 times despite the vaccines and boosters I got... although, maybe they diminished the effect of Covid.

Pastor and I (served as Deacon) wore masks, as did our parishioners, and these were removed only during reception of the Eucharist. We were not careless. but we were 100% ready to reopen when we were legally allowed to.

Interestingly, when we (at work) stopped being so careful, it seems we got it less frequently. Timing? None of us got sick at Church.

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In the US the illegal restrictions on worship were lifted by the Supreme Court in April of 2021 but some liberal denominations continued to impose restrictions on worship into 2022.

Guojing said:

In case you were not following, the point he was trying to explain was

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In my own parish, those who got it seem to have gotten it elsewhere; it was (is) a virulent virus, and in the secular world, spread by many means. Those in my parish that did get it (almost everyone) stayed away out of courtesy and respect for others. I worked in Automotive as an engineer, I had it (with positive tests) 4 times despite the vaccines and boosters I got... although, maybe they diminished the effect of Covid.

Pastor and I (served as Deacon) wore masks, as did our parishioners, and these were removed only during reception of the Eucharist. We were not careless. but we were 100% ready to reopen when we were legally allowed to.

Interestingly, when we (at work) stopped being so careful, it seems we got it less frequently. Timing? None of us got sick at Church.

"How do you know that to be true?"

Answer: We lived Covid out, in the world, in an informed way; and we did so without having our heads up our butts.

Spiritual Jew said:

Yet another childish response from you.

Why are you not willing to even think about the difference between someone being dead in sins and being spiritually sick? Why would you draw conclusions about what it means for someone to be dead in sins without taking into consideration that they are also sick in another sense?

Do you understand that death is separation such as when people physically die their soul and spirit separates from their body? Being dead in sins means your sins separate you from a relationship with God. It has nothing to do with what someone is capable of doing. Being spiritually sick, as Jesus described sinners, does not makes someone incapable of repenting and believing. A sick person is capable of recognizing and acknowledging that they are sick and can't heal themselves and need the physician to heal them instead.

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But the person dead in trespasses and sins is elsewhere described by Paul as "the natural man," about whom he wrote:

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1Co 2:14 NKJV)

That surely speaks of inability. He does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, and he cannot know them.

Hvizsgyak said:

I meant that as a practicing Christian I would not even dream of placing my elected candidate in the same phrase with God.

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Nor would I, but I get the feeling some people would mainly object to that phrase because it's Trump. How do you feel about the Guns part? Or for that matter, the Country part? Both "God, Family, and Country", and "God, Family, and Guns" are expressions in their own right. Some people just added in Trump.

Apple Sky said:

Does Jesus ?

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The catholic (small c) church just means the world-wide, universal church, the church that Jesus said He would build and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That is the church mentioned in the creeds. The creeds don't say, "I believe in the Roman Catholic Church."

CerebralCherub said:

Yes, I hated working for other people. I started my own business a few years ago.

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So did I, I used to have my own business & yes the workplace is a monotonous road which I hated & gets one nowhere.

Apple Sky said:

You asked me what evidence I have, I have none as the astronauts are not going to jeopardize these reasons are they ?
And NASA certainly wont as per.

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So with no evidence, as you yourself admit, you accuse fellow Christians of lying to make money, and accuse somebody of threatening astronauts' families. Yet you repeatedly expect those of us who do believe that the moon landings happened to provide you with evidence that they did.

Oh yes, for all you who are less than friendly with the possibility of your Pastor, Priest, Spiritual mentor's bringing a message of tongues to the pulpit or any gathering in His name due to your 'Oh no no, we can't invite that type of indecent activity, for even the Apostle advised against everyone speaking in tongues at one time in the Church.' But that is for those who are already exercising speaking in tongues, not for those who are about to have hands laid upon them with petitions to God to bless. For if you take the time to look in Acts, whenever they receive the gift as a group, they do so collectively as one, at the same time. This is the exception, Hallelujah!

Aaron112 said:

It seems on the internet/in life/media/ it is "easy" to say "fruit(/s) of the spirit" and use that as an argument for or against something/anything.
It seems it is rare though, to see and understand the fruit of the spirit in truth. Something else is wrongly used instead, to seem to represent something good or right without actually even knowing what is good or right with God.

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Rare perhaps but the truth can be clearly known even if we cannot fully explain this sometimes. Sometimes its a matter of faith and we cannot fully know the reason for such teachings. Like a child does not understand their parents reasons for teaching them how to be responsible when they growup.

Sometimes it is first submitting in faith that we then know God and His way before we understand.

So really faith and obedience and submission to Gods Will is a big part. That we know we are incapable ourselves and that God is. The embodiment of Christ truth is living the words. This is the good fruit.

In that way no one can have a charge against you as to a falsehood. Just like Jesus and even though there were many accusations Pilot could find no wrong.

Spiritual Jew said:

Yet another childish response from you.

Why are you not willing to even think about the difference between someone being dead in sins and being spiritually sick? Why would you draw conclusions about what it means for someone to be dead in sins without taking into consideration that they are also sick in another sense?

Do you understand that death is separation such as when people physically die their soul and spirit separates from their body? Being dead in sins means your sins separate you from a relationship with God. It has nothing to do with what someone is capable of doing. Being spiritually sick, as Jesus described sinners, does not makes someone incapable of repenting and believing. A sick person is capable of recognizing and acknowledging that they are sick and can't heal themselves and need the physician to heal them instead.

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So some are called sick, and to be sure its an incurable disease as far as the one sick is concerned, they dont have freewill in the matter, and some are called dead because they are dead, and they dont have freewill in the matter, either way they are totally dependent on a power outside of themselves.

Isaiah says about the natural heart of man Isa 1:4-6

4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

ViaCrucis said:

No.

See: The Second Council of Nicea.

Iconoclasm is heretical for a reason.

-CryptoLutheran

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8th century is not early Christianity.

What late councils believed is not my concern as false beliefs had entered some churches and were separated from the truth.

Remember, kids.

Doing whatever it takes to win is a-okay.

Protesting it is a "stunt".

RileyG said:

Keep reading and researching:

Council of Constantinople (843) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

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9th century is not early Christianity. By that time all types of false beliefs had crept into some churches.