Ophiolite said:

I think we can agree I am not your friend.
No. That is not at all what I am saying. I say the words should FIRST be read, then it should be decided whether or not they are literal, fictional, mythical, lies, rhetoric, etc., etc. You insist upon a literal reading. I consider that to be a foolish approach.

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I think we're struggling with semantics.

I know what it is to literally read the word "the". I don't know what it means to read it literally, objectively, subjectively, metaphorically, or allegorically.

When we read "Noah built an ark", or "Huck stole a raft", or "Tom went up to the house", we can begin to assess meaning.

(I'll reassert that the words objective and subjective are useless for this discussion. Let's just understanding what and how we understand what the author wrote.)

In the three sentences above, every one can/could agree that the sentences are to be read literally. That is, a person named Noah put some effort into transforming materials into something we'd call an ark; Huck took a raft without permission of the presumed owner; Tom went to a house whatever the and up means.

It's almost certain the authors meant us to understand the sentences literally. But, what to we take with us? Who was Noah? Huck? Tom?

Well, if we were raised in a culture steeped in the Abrahamic religions, we automatically assume Noah of the Bible. If we are American, we probably get Huck Finn. None of us probably can guess who Tom might be (cuz I made it up, without a conscious reference to anything.)

So now we discover that the reader brings something to the table. (Here, I find the phrase "death of the author" deliciously ironic, but let that go.) Our culture deeply influences our interpretation.

So, did the author want us to understand that Noah actually built an actual ark? What did the author believe about what he wrote? Just a story? An allegory? History? Why did he include the story at all? Whatever he thought he was writing, there was a reason to tell the story. Perhaps all he wanted to say was that it happened. I'd say then that that would be a useless thing for a religious text. Perhaps he wanted to convey something about the nature of the relationship between God and man.

If the latter, that meaning is conveyed regardless of the historicity of the story.

In contrast, Twain both meant you to understand his sentence literally and as fiction.

And Tom? Well, we'd need more context before we'd be able to assess that sentence.

To circle back, it's not clear that there is a correct default way to read anything. You get clues from where and how you came across the text (e.g., what section of the library). And you bring yourself to the text; that is, you interpret the text from your own cultural accumulations.

(This is a long way of saying that I agree with @Ophiolite .)

Landon Caeli said:

Please tell me what I can learn from Palestinian culture, that could enlighten me in any way at all.

If you can think of some things, then I might re-evaluate my position. But at this point in time, I don't see this as ethnocentrism, but rather as an obvious example of an inferior culture.

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Can you be more specific? Culture is generally defined as the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group. Which of those elements to you find to be inferior?

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

According to available information, Bolton’s investigation began during the Biden administration under then-FBI Director Christopher Wray. President Trump and the current FBI Director were not responsible for initiating this investigation.

However, your statement that no one is above the law may be misleading. There appear to be instances in America where individuals are seemingly not held accountable under the law. For example, how can one explain a person with 34 felony convictions receiving 312 electoral college votes?

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A little clarity:

Say it aint so said:

John Bolton is number 6 on now FBI Director Kash Patel's own stated enemy list:

1. Michael Atkinson - Former Inspector General of the Intelligence Community
2. Lloyd Austin - Defense Secretary under President Joe Biden
3. Brian Auten - Supervisory Intelligence Analyst, FBI
4. James Baker - Former FBI General Counsel and Twitter Deputy General Counsel
5. Bill Barr - Former Attorney General under Trump
6. John Bolton - Former National Security Adviser under Trump
7. Stephen Boyd - Former Chief of Legislative Affairs, FBI
8. Joe Biden - President of the United States
9. John Brennan - Former CIA Director under Obama
10. John Carlin - Former DOJ National Security Division Head under Trump
11. Eric Ciaramella - Former National Security Council Staffer
12. Pat Cipollone - Former White House Counsel under Trump
13. James Clapper - Former Director of National Intelligence under Obama
14. Hillary Clinton - Former Secretary of State and Presidential Candidate
15. James Comey - Former FBI Director
16. Elizabeth Dibble - Former Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy, London
17. Mark Esper - Former Secretary of Defense under Trump
18. Alyssa Farah - Former Trump Director of Strategic Communications
19. Evelyn Farkas - Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under Obama
20. Sarah Isgur Flores - Former DOJ Communications Head under Trump
21. Merrick Garland - Attorney General under Biden
22. Stephanie Grisham - Former Trump Press Secretary
23. Kamala Harris - Vice President under Biden
24. Gina Haspel - CIA Director under Trump
25. Fiona Hill - Former National Security Council Staffer
26. Curtis Heide - FBI Agent
27. Eric Holder - Former Attorney General under Obama
28. Robert Hur - Special Counsel for Biden Classified Documents Investigation
29. Cassidy Hutchinson - Former Aide to Trump’s Chief of Staff
30. Nina Jankowicz - Former Director, Disinformation Governance Board under Biden
31. Lois Lerner - Former IRS Director under Obama
32. Loretta Lynch - Former Attorney General under Obama
33. Charles Kupperman - Former Trump Deputy National Security Adviser
34. Gen. Kenneth Mackenzie - Former CENTCOM Commander
35. Andrew McCabe - Former FBI Deputy Director
36. Ryan McCarthy - Former Secretary of the Army under Trump
37. Mary McCord - Former DOJ National Security Official under Obama
38. Denis McDonough - Secretary of Veterans Affairs under Biden
39. Gen. Mark Milley - Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff
40. Lisa Monaco - Deputy Attorney General under Biden
41. Sally Myer - Former FBI Supervisory Attorney
42. Robert Mueller - Former FBI Director and Special Counsel
43. Bruce Ohr - Former DOJ Official
44. Nellie Ohr - Former CIA Employee
45. Lisa Page - Former FBI Counsel
46. Pat Philbin - Former Trump Deputy White House Counsel
47. John Podesta - Former Counselor to Obama and Biden Climate Adviser
48. Samantha Power - Former U.N. Ambassador under Obama
49. Bill Priestap - Former FBI Counterintelligence Official
50. Susan Rice - Former National Security Adviser under Obama
51. Rod Rosenstein - Former Deputy Attorney General under Trump
52. Peter Strzok - Former FBI Official
53. Jake Sullivan - National Security Adviser under Biden
54. Michael Sussman - Former Lawyer for the Democratic National Committee
55. Miles Taylor - Former DHS Official under Trump
56. Timothy Thibault - Former FBI Agent
57. Andrew Weissman - Former Mueller Investigation Deputy
58. Alexander Vindman - Former National Security Council Director
59. Christopher Wray - FBI Director under Trump and Biden
60. Sally Yates - Former Acting Attorney General

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What kind of vindictive child writes down an enemies list? I bet it's in a GIJoe diary too.

What kinda dysfunction?

essentialsaltes said:

Stepping up the review of the Smithsonian.

White House orders review of Smithsonian museums and exhibits to ensure alignment with Trump directive​

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White House lists 20 objectionable Smithsonian exhibits, artworks​

The decision to highlight more than a dozen exhibits and artworks as “woke” comes after Trump criticized the history museum for its depiction of slavery and its impact on Black Americans.

Many items featured on the White House list coincide with an articlepublished by The Federalist last week that called out the Smithsonian for “anti-American propaganda.”

The list itself

--

One item on it:

• The National Museum of the American Latino describes the post-Mexican-American War California describes a “Californio” family losing their land to American “squatters.”

This is absolutely a thing that happened. Spanish land grants were not necessarily recognized and many Californios had their land stolen. Also, the description here is not very adequate. Squatter was the term used at the time, and comes from a title of a book published in the 19th century that is part of the exhibit on the printing press in the 1800s.



Likewise, the claim that the exhibit frames the "Mexican-American War as “the North American invasion” that was “unprovoked and motivated by pro-slavery politicians.”" leaves out the crucial context in the actual exhibit.

the Mexican-American War (1846–1848)—known by Mexicans as the North American Invasion. U.S. public opinion was divided over the war, with many considering it unprovoked and motivated to by pro-slavery politicians.

durangodawood said:

Does the Kash Patel FBI represent the law.... or the vindictive impulses of the boss?

Patels own testimony indicates the latter.

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NBC reports that the investigation on Bolton began under Christopher Wray.

Oompa Loompa said:

Well, no one is above the law. So we are told.

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According to available information, Bolton’s investigation began during the Biden administration under then-FBI Director Christopher Wray. President Trump and the current FBI Director were not responsible for initiating this investigation.

However, your statement that no one is above the law may be misleading. There appear to be instances in America where individuals are seemingly not held accountable under the law. For example, how can one explain a person with 34 felony convictions receiving 312 electoral college votes?

Oompa Loompa said:

Apparently the same laws that resulted in FBI raids on Trump and Biden. So is Bolton above the law.

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Biden wasn't raided. Neither was Pence. Only Trump was raided because of the three, only he thought he was above the law.

Freth said:

Scripture confirms that the law of God is eternal. See Isaiah 66:23, Psalms 19:7-14, and Psalms 119:160 for statements of fact.

The Bible shows us that God has an eternal standard for all of His creation. It is found in the war in heaven where Lucifer and a third of the angels fell because of sin, but two thirds did not. It is found in Eden where Adam and Eve lived in harmony with God before falling into sin. It is found in thousands of years of God's efforts to save man, even going so far as to send His only Son to die on the cross. It is found in the everlasting gospel. It is found in the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God. It is found in Isaiah's description of the new heaven and new earth.

If you think about it, if God was going to change His standard, he could have done so at the very beginning, when there was war in heaven. He could have done so when Adam and Eve sinned. He could have done so any time in the thousands of years of sinful man, but He did not, He instead wrote His law in stone with His own hand.

God goes to great lengths in the Bible to call man to obedience unto righteousness. If God were to change His standard, the goal post moves forward or backward, and the whole of salvation and the cross are rendered moot.

The point of salvation is reconciliation with God, according to His standard. Sin is and always will be transgression of the eternal law of God. It has to be an unchanging standard, otherwise it's not a standard at all.

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I don't know but the text gives a condition for change, that heaven and earth pass away, which they do.

Some laws are already not considered applicable to the gentiles, or the counsel of Jerusalem would have included a lot more laws that had to be spread to gentiles aside from avoid fornication, and don't eat meat that was strangled or eat blood.

BTW, I'm going to strongly disagree with the war in heaven being a past event.
as when discussing Revelation 12, Satan knows he has a short time, and the woman is protected from Satan for 1260 days (3.5 years) that's eschatology, not history.
I don't care what popes and priests and mislead Greek Philosophers (who converted and tried to wed their Platonic world view to the bible and come up with concepts like Allegorizing scripture to make it all fit as past events) said. The bible gives it in a period of 42 months, not all of human history.

The final defense from facts; "They are lying!! All of them are lying!!" It's extremely hard to hide homicides, since the recording is not under the control of the police. Even if police officers were covering up homicides, civilian authorities would still be involved and keep records.

And given the history of lies from the Trump administration, why should anyone believe them? After they first claimed the Epstein files were in their possession, and then declared the files never existed, no one with any sense believes anything they say without external confirmation.

Postvieww said:

Great Job! Simple defense .

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Sadly, that's the best they can do. When all the facts are against them, all they have left is to call the facts "lies."

Postvieww said:

They are all lying , great investigative work.

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For Trump and his followers no facts needed.

Bobthebomb said:

Hi. I have been directed here and it does seem to be an appropriate place.
My question is "What makes you certain that what you believe is true?

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Hello again, Bob

The resurrection of Jesus is the only thing that makes sense
Otherwise, it's death that'd get the final say, and this, for me, woudn't make sense.
Life is truly existing, being, etc, whatever form it may take, and whatever blows death bears on life.

So, you see, the sensemaking has a great importance in my belief

But it's just a belief, it cannot be a certainty as well. (Where 's certainty, there's no more belief)

Oompa Loompa said:

And I am saying that it doesn't matter what Trump's motives are. Is Bolton above the law?

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As I noted I'm skeptical that this raid is in fact an application of law rather than personal revenge.

NxNW said:

What laws did he break?

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Apparently the same laws that resulted in FBI raids on Trump and Biden. So is Bolton above the law.

durangodawood said:

We dont know if your starting premise is correct.

We do have Patels promise to use his office for revenge purpose.

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And I am saying that it doesn't matter what Trump's motives are. Is Bolton above the law?

essentialsaltes said:

Judge temporarily blocks further construction of 'Alligator Alcatraz' detention center​

Any further construction must be halted for 14 days, the judge ruled.
While the hearing was set to resume on Tuesday, Judge Williams granted the temporary order to prevent possible harm to the sensitive Everglades ecosystem in the meantime.

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Judge rules 'Alligator Alcatraz' can stay open for now, but no further detainees or construction are allowed​

Within 60 days, the facility must also remove “all generators, gas, sewage, and other waste and waste receptacles,” which calls into question how it would operate.

U.S. District Judge Kathleen M. Williams entered a preliminary injunction to prevent the installation of any additional industrial-style lighting and any site expansion. Her ruling further prevents “bringing any additional persons ... who were not already being detained at the site at the time of this order.”

The ruling was filed late Thursday, allowing the injunction that was requested over National Environmental Policy Act violations.

Within 60 days, “and once the population attrition allows for safe implementation of this Order,” the facility must also remove “all generators, gas, sewage, and other waste and waste receptacles that were installed to support this project,” the 82-page ruling said.

Michie said:

Throughout the pages of Scripture, God often used pagan kings, not to lead revivals, but to wake His people up through judgment. Think about Nebuchadnezzar, who destroyed Jerusalem and carried Judah into exile. Or Assyria, the empire that crushed the northern kingdom of Israel. In Isaiah 10:5-6, God even calls Assyria “the rod of My anger.” These rulers were not godly men. But they were instruments in God's hand, used to discipline a people who had forgotten Him.

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I understand where you are coming from & I agree, God can use anyone to get his people back onto the right path.

The Barbarian said:

Like he did the WH?

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OUR NATION'S CAPITAL CANNOT SETTLE FOR AVERAGE MEDIANS. I ALONE CAN BRING YOU THE MOST EXTREME AND BEAUTIFUL MEDIANS.

John Bolton is number 6 on now FBI Director Kash Patel's own stated enemy list:

1. Michael Atkinson - Former Inspector General of the Intelligence Community
2. Lloyd Austin - Defense Secretary under President Joe Biden
3. Brian Auten - Supervisory Intelligence Analyst, FBI
4. James Baker - Former FBI General Counsel and Twitter Deputy General Counsel
5. Bill Barr - Former Attorney General under Trump
6. John Bolton - Former National Security Adviser under Trump
7. Stephen Boyd - Former Chief of Legislative Affairs, FBI
8. Joe Biden - President of the United States
9. John Brennan - Former CIA Director under Obama
10. John Carlin - Former DOJ National Security Division Head under Trump
11. Eric Ciaramella - Former National Security Council Staffer
12. Pat Cipollone - Former White House Counsel under Trump
13. James Clapper - Former Director of National Intelligence under Obama
14. Hillary Clinton - Former Secretary of State and Presidential Candidate
15. James Comey - Former FBI Director
16. Elizabeth Dibble - Former Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy, London
17. Mark Esper - Former Secretary of Defense under Trump
18. Alyssa Farah - Former Trump Director of Strategic Communications
19. Evelyn Farkas - Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under Obama
20. Sarah Isgur Flores - Former DOJ Communications Head under Trump
21. Merrick Garland - Attorney General under Biden
22. Stephanie Grisham - Former Trump Press Secretary
23. Kamala Harris - Vice President under Biden
24. Gina Haspel - CIA Director under Trump
25. Fiona Hill - Former National Security Council Staffer
26. Curtis Heide - FBI Agent
27. Eric Holder - Former Attorney General under Obama
28. Robert Hur - Special Counsel for Biden Classified Documents Investigation
29. Cassidy Hutchinson - Former Aide to Trump’s Chief of Staff
30. Nina Jankowicz - Former Director, Disinformation Governance Board under Biden
31. Lois Lerner - Former IRS Director under Obama
32. Loretta Lynch - Former Attorney General under Obama
33. Charles Kupperman - Former Trump Deputy National Security Adviser
34. Gen. Kenneth Mackenzie - Former CENTCOM Commander
35. Andrew McCabe - Former FBI Deputy Director
36. Ryan McCarthy - Former Secretary of the Army under Trump
37. Mary McCord - Former DOJ National Security Official under Obama
38. Denis McDonough - Secretary of Veterans Affairs under Biden
39. Gen. Mark Milley - Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff
40. Lisa Monaco - Deputy Attorney General under Biden
41. Sally Myer - Former FBI Supervisory Attorney
42. Robert Mueller - Former FBI Director and Special Counsel
43. Bruce Ohr - Former DOJ Official
44. Nellie Ohr - Former CIA Employee
45. Lisa Page - Former FBI Counsel
46. Pat Philbin - Former Trump Deputy White House Counsel
47. John Podesta - Former Counselor to Obama and Biden Climate Adviser
48. Samantha Power - Former U.N. Ambassador under Obama
49. Bill Priestap - Former FBI Counterintelligence Official
50. Susan Rice - Former National Security Adviser under Obama
51. Rod Rosenstein - Former Deputy Attorney General under Trump
52. Peter Strzok - Former FBI Official
53. Jake Sullivan - National Security Adviser under Biden
54. Michael Sussman - Former Lawyer for the Democratic National Committee
55. Miles Taylor - Former DHS Official under Trump
56. Timothy Thibault - Former FBI Agent
57. Andrew Weissman - Former Mueller Investigation Deputy
58. Alexander Vindman - Former National Security Council Director
59. Christopher Wray - FBI Director under Trump and Biden
60. Sally Yates - Former Acting Attorney General

Everyone is also aware that big balls was hitting on the 14 year old girl...then the boy and girl started beating him.


The judge has thrown the case out anyways. Something about how big balls story kept changing (wait....a liar? Nooooooo...) while the kids story and pokice report remain the same.


Hitched the victimhood wagon to the wrong star.

essentialsaltes said:

And now a little do-si-do

White House maneuver keeps Habba as top NJ prosecutor​

One day before Alina Habba’s tenure as the interim U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey was set to expire, the White House withdrew her nomination for the post.

Habba then announced on social media that she is now the acting United States Attorney, seemingly restarting the clock

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Judge says former Trump lawyer Alina Habba has been unlawfully serving as US attorney in New Jersey​

U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann held that Habba’s term as the interim U.S. attorney ended in July, and the Trump administration’s “novel series of legal and personnel moves” to keep her in the role without getting confirmation from the U.S. Senate didn’t follow procedures required by federal law.

essentialsaltes said:

“But let's say at the end of the year, this place will be maxed out in terms of beauty. You'll have all new surfaces. You'll have all new medians, everything's going to look beautiful,” he added.

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Like he did the WH?


Hmm.. actually, that's too tasteful to be Trump's doing.... ah, it's Liberache's house.

Oompa Loompa said:

So because Trump is giving lawful directives,

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That's a big assumption

Oompa Loompa said:

Bolton is then above the law and can keep and leak whatever classified information he desires?

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What laws did he break?

BPPLEE said:

Are you talking about The Guardian?

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Greg Pemberton

Ophiolite said:

I think we can agree I am not your friend.

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I guess if we can’t have a friendly, civil conversation then there is very little point in continuing. Have a nice day.