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What did they teach you in school , flat or round earth?

Well unmovable certainly isn't a spinning ball.
Why not? "Unmovable" says nothing about whether the earth is ball-shaped or flat, and as I said, if David was not moved, yet he walked around his palace and went into battle, why cannot passages which say that the earth shall not be moved be similar, meaning "not moved out of where God wants it to be"?
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Spanish Inquisiton

@The Liturgist is not Roman Catholic.

That’s correct, and insofar as the Eastern Orthodox Churches of which I have been a member, the OCA and the Antiochian Orthodox Church, and the Oriental Orthodox with which I have close ties as a result of my ecumenical work, the Syriac Orthodox Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church, have not persecuted anyone, but have been victims of Roman Catholic persecution in the case of the Syriac Orthodox in India and the Antiochians during the Crusades, and in the case of the OCA’s Alaskan Archdiocese of Sitka, one of the major Orthodox saints of North America is Saint Peter the Aleut, a 15 year old boy, martyred by the Franciscans in California after his party of twenty Aleutian fishermen, who had routinely sailed to California for centuries, were arrested due to their Orthodox faith, and St. Peter, out of all of them, who was not the leader but a mere 15 year old boy, was martyred for refusing to recant the Orthodox faith and convert to the Roman faith, and thus who could be regarded as a victim of violence connected to the Spanish Inquisition insofar as the Franciscans along with the Dominicans were involved in conducting the Inquisition, and the territory of Alta California, which corresponds to southern and central California in the US, was at the time under Spanish Colonial rule. Furthermore, our churches in the Middle East are under active persecution right now, with the abduction of the Syriac and Antiochian Metropolitans of Aleppo in 2013 (the incident that prompted me to join the Orthodox Church after my friend who was one of the last conservative priests in the ultra-liberal Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles (Anglican) retired, and since that time the persecution of Orthodox Christians in Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and Iraq has been incessant, most recently with the martyrdom of 90 men, women and children at an Antiochian Orthodox Church in Damascus that was attacked by an Islamist with automatic weapons, who on running out of ammo, threw a grenade at the Iconostasis, kyrie eleison.

My interest in this thread rather is twofold: insofar as some posts by @Amo2 have had an anti-Orthodox effect by implying that Orthodox ecumenical councils such as the Council of Nicaea were Roman Catholic conspiracies aimed at suppressing worship on Sunday, despite the fact that of the 318 bishops at Nicaea, only two were Roman Catholics, and the rest were Orthodox Christians of Greek and Syrian ethnicity, and the Pope of Rome was not involved with the council, and the council enacted two canons, 6 and 7, which have the effect of precluding Papal Supremacy by declaring in canon 6 that the churches of Antioch and Alexandria should have the same privileges as that of Rome, and in canon 7 that the church of Jerusalem, newly reinstated after the city, which was largely ruined and renamed Aeolia Capitolina in 130 AD following the failed revolt led by the false messiah Bar Kochba, was restored by Emperor Constainte’s mother St. Helena, should also have those privileges.

Later councils also clarified that the church of Cyprus had always had those privileges, and granted them officially to the Church in Constantinople. Given the severe persecution of Orthodox and Roman Catholic persecutions by Emperor Constantine’s son Constantius, who was persuaded to apostasize and join the Arian religion, which denied the Incarnation and the Trinity, and his successors up through Emperor Valens who were all Arians, except for Emperor Julian, who was a Neo-Platonist, and thus the persecution of the Nicene Christians by the Roman Empire, whether Roman Catholic or Greek, Coptic and Syrian Orthodox continued until 386 AD, when a vigil held by the great bishop St. Ambrose of Milan persuaded Emperor Theodosius, who was a Christian, not to yield to demands by Arians that a church in Milan be handed over to them (which Theodosius had intended to do fearing a riot).

Additionally insofar as the accusations made against Roman Catholics, for example, the claim they murdered 125 million people, are so egregious as to potentially lead to renewed persecution of Catholics, particularly by Muslims, who might be fearful of Catholics because Muslims worship on Friday, and the false accusation of a Roman Catholic conspiracy to prohibit worship on days other than Sunday (which is so untrue when one considers that in recent years, nearly all Roman Catholic parishes have begun scheduling Saturday afternoon worship services and attendance at these satisfies the obligation for Roman Catholics to attend weekly worship, and combined with existing masses on Saturday mornings, given the extremely large global population of Catholics and the fact that all Catholic priests are required to celebrate the Mass daily, and also the Divine Office (Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer etc), that the majority of Saturday worship services worldwide are held in Catholic churches. The Orthodox (specifically a combined total of Eastern and Oriental Orthodox) and Anglicans probably come in second and third place due to the normal practice of Saturday vespers, and also the Saturday morning divine liturgies which are normal in the Coptic, Ethiopian and Eritrean churches.

My concern is these allegations of violence and of a conspiracy to suppress worship on days other than Sunday could lead to persecution or individual misconduct towards the Roman Catholic Church, whose clergy in places such as Northern Ireland, Scotland and parts of England routinely experience violence both from Muslims and other persons not of Roman Catholic ethnicity, and whose churches in the US, Canada and other countries frequently fall victim to arson attacks, and whose laity in the Middle East, particularly the Melkite Catholics, Maronite Catholics and Syriac Catholics in Syria, the Coptic Catholics in Egypt, and the Chaldean Catholics in Iraq, have experienced violent persecution alongside their Orthodox and Anglican brethren.

In addition, in Pakistan, where Christians are severely persecuted, nearly all of the violence has been encountered by Anglicans, Catholics and other Protestants, for the Orthodox do not have a significant presence in that country (and have not since the genocide of Tamerlane in the 12th century AD, which killed all Aramaic-speaking Christians of the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Antiochian Orthodox Church and the Assyrian Church of the East outside of Mesopotamia and the Malabar Coast of India, including all of those living on the island of Socotra in Yemen, and the very large number living in Central Asia, China, Mongolia and Tibet. Today, only ruins exist where there were once beautiful churches in these lands.

Because of this, and because we are Christians, we have a duty to seek historical truth, even if it disagrees with our assumptions. At present, the facts of history as agreed upon by all academic sources do not support the narrative about the Spanish Inquisition and the Roman Catholic Church presented in this thread. Additionally, claiming the Catholics murdered a population equal in size to that of Western Europe is a historical impossibility.
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Spanish Inquisiton

So, you have nothing to say? You already have your conclusions and will not be moved? So why post ?

You can mischaracterize my intentions all you wish. The devil will give you no lack of accusations to use against me. But how does that serve God and follow his commands?
Exalt yourself over me if it makes you feel better, but as of yet, you added nothing to the conversation. Is that your intention?

I just said: that you are trying to justify torture and murder.

So who is really in league with the Devil? The one who tries to justify this past crimes or the one who notices the crimes?
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Spanish Inquisiton

I would like to contribute to your thread. First let me thank you for your threads. For me, they're therapeutic.

For I have already indicated to you in another thread that the inquisition obviously brings into question the validity of apostolic succession, and it actually felt good in my soul to get that off my chest. And that's all I wanted to say about that.

But here I would like to comment on God displaying His Power, God's Spirit as an incorruptible Love, and your application of the sentiment 'free will' above.

When people reference the will, the terms volition and/or desire come to mind as pertains to the term "Will". The term 'Free' is actually an adjective if it is meant to imply an uncoerced will. My immediate point here is that the term "free" must be qualified so as to comprehend what the will is free from, so as not to be redundant when describing the "will", and also so that the term 'free' doesn't become fluid and morph through subjective meanings when saying it and hearing it.

Having said that, the greater point I wish to make is that I would NOT agree that God giving us of His Spirit so as to bestow upon us His Characteristics of kindness, graciousness, caring compassion, or charitableness, would qualify as coercion since these attributes are qualities that are Light to the soul. I would even say that the only coherent meaning of a freewill in the moral/immoral context, would be a will free from the disability of sin.

Moreover, sin is corruption of that which was once pure. The first commandment is Love God with all your heart mind and soul. I therefore surmise that if I had no Love in my heart, mind and soul, I could not even care that I had no Love in my heart mind and soul.

So, as pertains to God displaying His Power, scripture speaks of the power of the cross preached through the Gospel and I interpret that as the displaying of the Incorruptible Love crucified on a cross by a wicked world. And that without this Image of God in my heart, I would probably remain subjugated under the image of the god of this world, and I would be without The Holy Spirit to convict me of sin that I would otherwise not even see.

2 Corinthians 4:3-5​

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:​

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

All we have is our ability to say yes or to say no, that is free will. We each are at different points in our life. We can cry out for help or continue on as we are. God has given us plenty of examples for us to consider.
The closest analogy that I can see is that sin is like a drug. We start small and use our will to say yes to sin, and the deeper we go, the harder it is to say no and break free. Studies have shown that the brains of addicts are so altered as to have almost no impulse control

The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The addict and the non addict do not have the same strength of will, but they do have a choice to make. Say I am fine I’ll be alright and continue on, or see that they are on the path of death and cry out for help.

The addict knows what he does is wrong. Sometimes instead of inducing fear enough to call for help, they turn it into a joke. As the song goes, “I messed up my entire life because I got high, I lost my kids and wife because I got high, now I’m sleeping on the sidewalk and I know why. Why man? Because I got high, because I got high, because I got high.” Some people think that song is funny and it would be if it were not true.
The other analogy is that the drunk person thinks he can dance. Satan wants us comfortable with sin. Look, you are not evil, you are doing just fine, go with it. He thinks he is dancing, but everyone else can see he is drunk.
We have the choice to keep dancing or stop and sober up.


Studies have shown that the part of the brain that governs impulse control can be restored by self denial. The choice is there. Continue drugs or start the path of recovery. The words of Jesus ring clear. If anyone come after me, let him deny his very self and begin to follow in my footsteps.
The more we practice self denial, the stronger we become spiritually

The drunk man is under the deception of riches either monetarily or socially. He had lots of money to help him think he is ok, or he has lots of friends to tell him he is ok. The enticement of riches makes it hard to him to see his need. Jesus says that it is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Why? Because the rich man does not think he needs it
Like those in the Church of Laodicea, he says I am rich, well fed and have need of nothing, but God says he is miserable, blind, poor, and naked.
He has a choice. Continue to dance drunk, even though Jesus says drunkards will not enter the kingdom of heaven, or repent and live soberly
We can listen to people that tell us we don’t have to do penance and keep dancing drunk thinking we will get a reward in heaven, or we can believe God and become poor in spirit. My behavior is deplorable, I need to stop dancing drunk and take the path of self denial that Jesus has laid before me.

Do we confess our sins or do we deny our need for repentance? The once saved always saved crowd tends to make people that continue to want to dance drunk. The sober take the path of self denial. The drunk accuse us of working our way to heaven, but we know it is us giving our will to Jesus and allowing Him to strengthen us on the way, as He says my yoke is easy and my burden light

Some addicts recover, some do not. It depends on the path we choose to take. Jesus says narrow is the way straight is the gate. Strive to enter by the straight gate
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Futurist Only Was the "Practice" Red Heifer ceremony actually the real deal?

On July 1, 2025, there was a "practice" red heifer ceremony/burning where it was claimed they used one of the disqualified heifers as a test run.
It seemed odd that they'd need practice to do this but at the time I thought the Talmudic Jews are very very specific about their rituals, even to a degree that God did not require in scripture.
However now the Evangelical Rancher in Texas who donated the red heifers said that this was the real deal a month after the fact so that everything has been taken care of and it didn't get interrupted. He posted it on his facebook including videos.

facebook.com/reel/782005944488473/?s=single_unit

So, the Temple Institute now has the Ashes they believe are necessary for ritual purification for temple service and to enter the Holy of Holies.

So this last month the Temple Institute has been saying "mourning is over, building has begun" etc.
They've been searching for years for the unblemished red heifer and if it was the real ceremony and the rebuilding has begun, then we should know we are closer to the rise of the Antichrist.

Reports I have read indicates that it was a practice run reports I read indicates it was a practice run. And I can find nothing that indicates they are beginning to rebuild the Temple.
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The 666 mark will be a tattoo

I had a friend ask if I traded in bitcoin. My reply was that I believe that an Elon Musk figure will be the Beast of Revelation, Bitcoin will be the currency, and the mark will be the credit card...

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelations 13

In the near future there will be no need for credit cards or personal id. There will be a mark on the hand or forehead that people will scan. This will be the way to do business. It will just be another tattoo for many. One will be able to travel without personal identification like drivers licenses, credit cards, or passports. The ID will include the numbers 666. All you will need to do is swipe your ID and you will be good to go... But scripture says...

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: - Revelation 14

The reason why this will be a scanable tattoo is because it will be placed on the hand or forehead... A place where no hair grows to interfere with the scan.

View attachment 367573
I personally believe the mark of the beast will be initiated through implantations of microchips in the hand or in the forehead.

People are already using this technology, simplifying their life.

They are trying to ban this in the US but it hasn't become a government issue. If we ever get to the point and I believe we will, that cryptocurrency or biocoins become the means to buy, sell, and trade, microchipping will be mandated by the government. After all it will be the government that will mandate digital currency.

Tattooing or barcoding in my opinion is a bit too fixed, how would it be upgraded on humans? Would they have to change the tattoo or barcode? Or do they just add new information the tattoo or barcode already in the system?

Either way the technology is here, the mark of the beast can NOW be implicated, so as Christians as we were warned be vigilant, alert, and watch.
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Questions and Answers

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

It is known only to God the Father what day and hour that He will send Jesus for the resurrection/rapture.
Total avoidance of the questions I asked.
Here is another question: If we won't know when Jesus will Return, then why does 1 Thess 4:16 and Rev 19:12-16, say that glorious Day will be heralded by Trumpets and shouts from heaven? Plus, He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

Do you really think that the Church will be raptured before any trials and testing? You contradict many scriptures if you do.
The forthcoming Day of fiery wrath, is the unknown Day. The foolish rapture believers will be terrified.
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Did The Fallen Angel 'Samyaza' Manipulate DNA ?

The book of Enoch tells us that the Watchers did exactly that, he was the leader of the Watchers.

I also tells us this in the book of Jasher ;

The book of Yashar (Jasher) chapter 4 further confirms this understanding of pre-flood hybridization.

18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.
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Believers being bullied by other brothers and sisters in Christ.

I know it's hard for many, and I know that it is impossible... I use the word impossible, not because each individual cannot observe it, but because the heart refuses to let the individual observe it... it is impossible for many to see what is clearly written - the truth, which states that only few find the narrow door that opens to the narrow path leading to life. While the masses flood through the broad road leading to destruction, because they have itching ears, for what the many false prophets who have turned away from the truth, tells them.

I said a mouthful there, but one who knows the scriptures well can pinpoint the five scriptures I referred to in my comment.
Can you connect the five verses?
Matthew 13:15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes - so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’
2 Corinthians 4:4 the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Matthew 7:13, 14 Enter through the narrow gate for wide is the gate and broad the way leading to destruction, and many are those entering through it. For small is the gate and narrow the way leading to life, and few are those finding it.
2 Timothy 4:3 For there will be a time when they will not endure sound teaching, but according to the own desires, having an itching ear, they will gather around them teachers to suit themselves,
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. (1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.)

While there are sincere people out their, whom have not hardened their heart, while turning their ears to what they want to hear, these will come to know the truth eventually, because their heart will lead them to it, due to humbling themselves.
I should rather say, God will lead them to the truth. John 6:44
Some who right now have itching ears for the watered down word of God, will also find the truth, because their heart will soften.

However, there are many, many, many... who will not soften their heart, and they will remain blind, because God knows their heart, and he lets them remain blind. The Bible says he gives them a strong delusion, so that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12

So, while there are many who cannot see that Satan has his own organized religion, made up of thousands of divisions, while Christ has one united body of organized worshippers.... not fighting among themselves, it is not something I am concerned about, and expect to change, or be "rectified", because I see what the scripture say... Not just I alone, because it is written clear for all to see... those who have eyes to see.
The Divisions will continue to grow, as more and more people.... or should I say, as Satan forms more churches to gather those who have itching ears, and refuse to believe the truth.
A good point. At the end of the day this will continue as prohpesised. It is the spirit of God who will reveal the truth to those with an open heart to recieve it.

That may mean like the individual that the church will experience further deception before some are awakened.

I think this is where we are at. The sorting out period. As the church is more divided than ever the more it moves away the more the truth will be revealed.

The more the opposite of Christs truth is allowed the more Christs truth will shine. The more the truth is revealed and the more people are convicted. The more darkness the more the light shines out in that darkness.

This is the nature of things and we have seen how defying God leads to chaos. But hopefully out of that chaos comes peace and order and God will allow every chance for all those who are to be saved for everything to work towards that end.

Paul says that we should obey our elders and rulers and pray they will be Godly and Christlike as it pleases God that everyone be saved.
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Trump Threatens Federal Takeover of Washington After Member of DOGE Is Assaulted

It doesn't make any difference on CF, so there's no reason to keep bring it up here all the time.
Some posters just can't help themselves from derailing threads. I think some thrive on doing so. Hatred of Trump is a driving force for so many on the left.
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Proof that The Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls of Revelation are Happening Concurrently

I believe we are close to the return of Christ, closer than we think.

I believe the seven trumpets, the seven seals, the seven bowls, the seven veils, work together simultaneously.

I believe that in each, the six angel has sounded, and living on this planet is and will continue to go from bad to worse.

I see all the events written of unfolding. The Bible doesn't tell us the amount of time between the opening or soundings of the events, but it's been over 2,000 years to get to this point, so how long will we be living in the openings and soundings of the six angels?
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Did The Fallen Angel 'Samyaza' Manipulate DNA ?

The book of Enoch tells us that the Watchers did exactly that, he was the leader of the Watchers.

Experimenting with humans and animals creating monstrosities ,with an s. So most of, if not all that is considered mythological creatures may have existed before the flood. These creatures probably were not great in numbers but well known to mankind that lived then.
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Iran attacks Israel... then suffers crippling drought

The referral to Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8 means that it will be the same nations that made up the Ezekiel 38-39 Gog/Magog attack on Israel, 7 years before Jesus's return, a thousand years earlier.

Ezekiel 38-39, to take place 7 years before Jesus's return.

Revelation 20:8, to take place 1000 years after Jesus's return.

So, here's the thing. People assume that Revelation 20's Gog and Magog can't be the Ezekiel 38-39 war, because of the 7 years after the war, they assume Revelation 20 is exhaustive of all the details in the passage. But that's a big assumption. It doesn't say that it instantly goes from Gog/Magog being consumed by fire to the white throne of Judgement.

Let's look at the text:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
There's the battle, and it would fit from Ezekiel 38-39 in that this would be a time in which Israel lived at peace and had unwalled villages. It would also fit that the enemies, Gog and his confederation, would be using swords, bucklers and horses.. because for the Millennium weapons were destroyed, there is peace on Earth and nobody has modern weapons anymore. So Satan stirs up armies to war, and.. they fight with what they can make themselves, swords, shields, and horses. If you take it literally and don't start assuming it's a symbol.. you can have a literal fulfillment at the end of the Millennium.

But the 7 years after, the white throne of judgement is INSTANTLY after this right?
It doesn't say, it simply says that John had a vision of the great white throne. Nothing about timing.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

It doesn't use the connecting clause "and after these things". It simply starts a new vision. "And I saw" We can't assume this is any specific time Chronologically after the destruction of Gog's armies. It's just a new vision that John saw and wrote down.
That's the text.

So what do you do with this, where it's missing details?
Well, Gog and Magog is a reference, so you go to Ezekiel 38 and 39 where that reference is.

Now there are some things that are weird about this in that Ezekiel 38:17 seems to have God asking if Gog is Antichrist rhetorically, and Ezekiel 39's description seems to fit with Armageddon, and if Gog is Antichrist, well the beast was already said, in this passage, to already be in the lake of fire.
So do I understand it perfectly? Absolutely not.
But I will go with what the text says rather than what people teach, much less hollywood movies.
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AI learnt "something" from the Physical & Life Sciences Forum.

Is some garbage in, more garbage out really useful? Do you actually want a world where lie and truth are indistinguishable and can swap places? (I really don't think you do.)
I don't think anyone does despite the claims to the contrary. Well at least people act that way. Like its about getting at what is truth ultimately.

The point being information is good and it can help find the truth. But it can also be used to obscure or deny the truth. Depending on how it is used.
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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

The passage you quote about unbelief was Paul talking about the literal Israel in his present day … the all was not all of them; he being the prime example, but Abraham, the father of faith (or so one said) would do …

God doesn’t bind us no more than he would have confounded Jeremiah; it is our perception of God that binds us …

If the devil had no place in Jesus how can he be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; and in all points tempted like as we are … or why would Paul say not to give place to the devil (to those who seemed (by his writing) to be steeped in knowledge to the point where Paul had to explain where he saw from, or where he was at in this journey inwards) if the devil already had a place in us (not being possible that he would not have had this place already as a semi-permanent omnipotent residence from the foundation of the world) … or why would he turn one over to Satan seeing this was already the case before Paul was born, or how do you flee what is in you ... what you cannot …

Why would John have said that those born of God do not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God …

Jesus entered through the door even though he was this door he was speaking of …which is relative to every son …

The wall you speak of as something to be climbed over incloses me, and the heaven you refer to is where I am …

a knowledge that leads to death and a knowledge that leads to life ... two keys or two witnesses that speak as one ... which can be seen in mirror symmetry which permeates the entire natural world
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