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Clare73 · Monday at 12:41 PM

The Barbarian said:
Evidence always comes to light, as it has this time. And Trump once again is caught lying about people he hates.

Which, of courses they do not do (Russia hoax) and, therefore, merit no criticism.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Studyman · Monday at 12:41 PM

ralliann said:
The issue seems to be how "they understood" these things.

Who is the "They", Mary and the Disciples who clearly understood the Sabbath Jesus was "Lord of", or the mainstream preachers of that time who had polluted God's sabbath, and were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men?

ralliann said:
The 1st day of unleavened bread as a 24 hour period was from the evening of the 14thy day until the evening of the 15th day of the calender month

Yes, Passover was "Preparation Day" for the First Day of Unleavened Bread. That is why it was important, to fulfill all Righteousness, that Jesus was placed in the grave before sundown, the end of Passover.

ralliann said:
How did they do this?

How did "who" do "what"?

ralliann said:
How are you counting days, how did they count days during the festivals?

They would have followed God's Instruction in the Torah.

ralliann said:
A friday according to a Roman day?

The day God created is 24 hours. There are 7 days in a week, according to the God "of the bible". Romans didn't create the "DAY" God did.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day". Each day has a "day" and a "night", and starts with the Night. I'm not sure why you would imply that the day and night Jesus referred to was a "Roman Day".

ralliann said:
Actually Judaism counts days according to the sacrifices offered on those days.

What exactly is "Judaism" in your religion? Was it living by the Spiritual Word of God as Jesus and the examples of Faithful men given us in scriptures did? Or is "Judaism" the "Jews religion" that taught for doctrines the commandments of men, not God, polluted God's Sabbaths, and persecuted the Church of God?.

You need to define the context of your use of this world, before we can have a honest discussion about it.

ralliann said:
Which sacrifices go from morning to Evening.

Of course they did, sacrifices were made in the day, not the night. By definition, morning comes after night. Darkness dwelled on the earth, before Light. Darkness first, then Light. ignorance first, and then wisdom. 6 days of work first, then Rest.

I'm OK with that.

ralliann said:
A day according to temple or liturgical time: DAILY SACRIFICES (day by day)

Look, I understand how important religious traditions are, and how far men will go to defend and preserve them. I know there is no Biblical instruction to turn away from God's Sabbath, to the Catholic Sabbath. I know that God knew the Day the Prophesied Messiah would be raised from the dead, from the foundation of the World.

I also know from experience, that "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, will never turn away from their religious traditions, which is shown to me in the scriptures over and over and over and over and over.

I am happy to discuss with you the spiritual meaning of the daily sacrifices, "made by fire" etc., in a different thread. But this thread is about God's sabbaths. let's stay focused on that.

ralliann said:
The days of the feasts were morn to evening day to day. A liturgical day.

In your religion, this might be true. But according to Moses and the Prophets, the Feast Day begins at evening.

Jesus ate the Last supper with His Disciples after sundown on the 13th of Nisan, which would be the 14th of Nisan. After the Passover meal, Jesus

went to Gethsemane, and prayed, "at night" before the morning of Passover. In the morning HE was betrayed by Judas, tried, beaten stripped and crucified, all in the same day, Passover, which had begun the night before. And He was placed in the Grave "Before" the High Sabbath of the First day of Unleavened bread.

So it's right there in your own Bible.

Read the story of the Passover in Moses Time.

Ex. 12: 9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof. 10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain "until the morning"; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

Passover begins at sundown, at least according to the Holy scriptures.

ralliann said:
Judaism actually considers the whole night of Passover to be an extension of the 14th day (15th by calendar date), because the sacrifice of the day were not to be left over until the morning.

Personally, I don't know what you mean by "Judaism". I understand Passover by reason of use. Not really interest in the Talmud, or the Jews religion, nor the Catholic religion and her Protestant daughters religious traditions and philosophies. I'm more interested in what the Scriptures actually teach and how they help me to "know the One True God" that Jesus wants me to know.

Vambram · Monday at 12:41 PM

FireDragon76 said:
Charlie Kirk embodied smug contempt for millions of his fellow Americans who couldn't emulate his tradfamily lifestyle, paid for of course by billionaire dark money. He was not a man of peace in any deeply biblical sense, he was out to demean and scapegroat through pseudo-intellectual sophistry.

Your leftist opinion could not be more wrong and incorrect, even if you tried harder.

Frozen yogurt joint 'receiving hate' and death threats following Charlie Kirk tribute

Grooveberries Frozen Yogurt in Idaho said it is facing death threats after placing memorial stickers honoring Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk on its product cups.

www.foxnews.com

RandyPNW · Monday at 12:41 PM

2PhiloVoid said:
No, what you seem to think was my "confusion" was a mere rhetorical flourish. You merely misinterpreted what I said and assumed that I must have meant what it is you think I meant. I assure you, I'm not confused and am not looking for 'teaching.' I already have more than ample teaching on the topic.

No, I'm not like "some others." Antichrist in my view is a more general term. This doesn't mean there can't be or won't be some singular extreme baddie to lead the nations some day, but in general, the spirit of anti-christ has been around for the last two millennia. And my rub with the assurance that so many of us Christians espouse about 'end-times' is that while I do think I've generally figured out a few bits of the book of Revelation, I don't think anyone, including me, or you, or anyone else on this entire forum, actually fully knows the Lord's overall gameplan and schedule.

If anything, I think "the Man of Lawlessness" is typological, referring to a movement or a type of philosophical mindset that crops up in various places at various times in various political arenas and attempts to wreak havoc upon Christians and the Gospel.

So again, brother, thank you for offering your viewpoint earlier, but I'm not asking for help in understanding anything here in this thread.

Actually, you just seemed to admit that you were doing what I thought you were doing, ie reducing "antichrist" down to some general, and not technical, use. In your case, it does seem to be a bit different, though, inasmuch as you see "antichrist" as some kind of typological construct, indicating a philosophy of a kind.

Often, with the THE attached to some previous designation we have a proper noun identified in the previous use. In this case, "Antichrist," not even needing a THE, would refer back to the Little Horn of Dan 7. I don't think it would hurt you one bit for somebody like me to remind you of something you "already know."
I think you wish to view your views as a unique view, but alas--there is nothing new under the sun.

Clare73 · Monday at 12:39 PM

The Barbarian said:
People still try to call it a hoax, even though numerous Trump underlings were convicted of felonies regarding collusion with Russia.

Factual demonstration of these felonies?

Trump's collusion with Russia?

FireDragon76 · Monday at 12:39 PM

iluvatar5150 said:
lol, as if your side wasn't doing exactly the same thing, with at least as much fervor?

Somebody in the law enforcement establishment even went so far as to try to pin the "TRN" marking on the shell casings to some sort of "trans" message.

That shell casing conspiracy theory proves one thing: transpeople are living rent free in alot of conservatives heads.

childeye 2 · Monday at 12:35 PM

timothyu said:
Simply put, it takes the focus away from self-interest , the original sin in the Garden

You are consistent in articulating the simplicity of Christ as being a selfless love. You're showing this dichotomy selfless/selfish. The truth is simple, it's the lies that are more complex because they can submit a hidden premise that being selfless is good yet attribute that goodness to the creature rather than to the Creator.

When evaluating Eve's actions, the scriptures show that Eve was beguiled into doing what was NOT in her best interests, by making her think she could improve her station under God by obtaining knowledge.

HIM · Monday at 12:35 PM

The Liturgist said:
Not at all. Rather, before I provide my rebuttal I wish for you to answer my question, in order to put things in their proper context.

Nonsense…take care

Chesterton · Monday at 12:33 PM

partinobodycular said:
I assume that you'd number yourself among the latter. In which case may I ask you a question... is it possible that Christ wasn't the Son of God at all, but just an ordinary man?

Hmm, is this some kind of trick question?

No I don't think it's possible that Christ wasn't the Son.

Clare73 · Monday at 12:32 PM

childeye 2 said:
I do believe Trump is trying to abuse his power to attack those he sees as political enemies because they don't agree with him.

I"m sure you'll understand if I am not yet able to see through the fog remaining from the Russia hoax of the left, whose outcry against such abuse is yet to materialize.

Chesterton · Monday at 12:32 PM

Uriah S said:
Can AI still be trained by users, or have the owners locked that down already?

My suspicion is that it's probably locked down.

If you ever want to entertain yourself, try asking interesting questions about Islam. I've found AI is incapable of telling the truth most of the time. I asked "Did Abraham build the Kaaba"? It said "No". I then immediately asked "Who built the Kaaba?", and it said "Abraham and Isaac".

o_mlly · Monday at 12:29 PM

childeye 2 said:
To me you have expressed your sentiments above which reveal a predilection that feelings and emotions, sentiments, are primarily subjective opinion and unreliable as a source for truth.

Does the truth (God) change? No. Do our sentiments change? Yes. The latter's mutability makes it unsuited to discover that which is immutable.

childeye 2 said:
I would point out the 1+1=2 is an expressed sentiment of fact.

What is invented by one human mind can be wholly possessed by other human minds. One may, I suppose, "feel" a statement of fact is true but that feeling does not make it so.

As to God's mind, we can only know with certainty that which He deemed to reveal to us. We may be able to derive other truths via right reason based on those revelations but all else remains in the cloud of unknowing.

childeye 2 said:
Furthermore, I would contend that emotions like say kindness and compassion or the spirit of hope, or the spirit of joy are objectively real, and I don't think you would disagree.

Our affections (or sentiments) determine our attitudes, and our attitudes determine our behaviors. Behaviors can be moral or immoral. Therefore, our sentiments (passions) can be ordered to God's or disordered.

Say it aint so · Monday at 12:28 PM

....or what the Swamp that needs draining actually looks like:

This summer, Steve Witkoff, President Trump’s Middle East envoy, paid a visit to the coast of Sardinia, a stretch of the Mediterranean Sea crowded with super yachts.

On one of those extravagant vessels, Mr. Witkoff sat down with a member of the ultra rich ruling family of the United Arab Emirates. He was meeting Sheikh Tahnoon bin Zayed Al Nahyan, a trim figure in dark glasses who controls $1.5 trillion of the Emiratis’ sovereign wealth.

It was the latest engagement in a consequential alliance.

Over the past few months, Mr. Witkoff and Sheikh Tahnoon had become both diplomatic allies and business partners, testing the limits of ethics rules while enriching the president, his family and his inner circle, according to an investigation by The New York Times.

At the heart of their relationship are two multibillion-dollar deals. One involved a crypto company founded by the Witkoff and the Trump families that benefited both financially. The other involved a sale of valuable computer chips that benefited the Emirates economically.

In May, Mr. Witkoff’s son Zach announced the first of the deals at a conference in Dubai. One of Sheikh Tahnoon’s investment firms would deposit $2 billion into World Liberty Financial, a cryptocurrency start-up founded by the Witkoffs and Trumps.

Two weeks later, the White House agreed to allow the U.A.E. access to hundreds of thousands of the world’s most advanced and scarce computer chips, a crucial tool in the high-stakes race to dominate artificial intelligence. Many of the chips would go to G42, a sprawling technology firm controlled by Sheikh Tahnoon, despite national security concerns that the chips could be shared with China.

Those negotiations involved another key White House official with ties to the tech industry and to the Middle East: David Sacks. A longtime venture capitalist, Mr. Sacks serves as the administration’s A.I. and crypto czar, a newly created position that has allowed him to shape tech policy even as he continues to work in Silicon Valley. NYT

One would think given Jim Comer's instance that Joe Biden loaning Hunter $3,000 and Hunter paying him back was a crime, he would be all over this. I mean you can't get more quid pro quo than that.

iluvatar5150 · Monday at 12:27 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Rich considering how before we knew anything about the shooter, liberal news networks were trying to pin MAGA.

lol, as if your side wasn't doing exactly the same thing, with at least as much fervor?

Somebody in the law enforcement establishment even went so far as to try to pin the "TRN" marking on the shell casings to some sort of "trans" message.

FireDragon76 · Monday at 12:27 PM

Valletta said:
His partner was transitioning from male to female, what is further left than that?

That doesn't mean a person is a leftist, much less on the "further left".

DaisyDay · Monday at 12:27 PM

probinson said:
Another way to say that is, study shows 25 children died as a result of the COVID vaccine.

Admittedly, I've not read this study yet. But here's what I've read about it:

The reported deaths originated in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the government’s database for suspected vaccine harms. Unlike the raw entries often left unexamined, FDA officials say they’ve investigated the cases.

They contacted families, reviewed autopsy results and gathered medical records. It appears that, for the first time since the vaccine rollout, U.S. regulators have attempted a systematic, case-by-case review of paediatric deaths.

FDA to present review of 25 child deaths after Covid vaccination

Agency insiders leaked details of an FDA review linking 25 paediatric deaths to Covid vaccination, sparking controversy ahead of a key CDC panel meeting in the coming week.

blog.maryannedemasi.com

There were reports of pediatric deaths through VAERS, and the FDA followed up with them and verified them. That sounds pretty important, since ostensibly, the reason VAERS exists is to capture vaccine ADVERSE events. Hopefully we can all agree that DEATH after vaccination certainly would qualify as adverse event worthy of follow up to confirm. If that is what the FDA study shows, then you'd think people would want to know about it.

Even if this study provides concrete evidence that COVID vaccines killed 25 children, I think there is a segment of people who will absolutely refuse to believe it. I mean, when the media starts their reporting with "ardent anti-vaccine activist", it's pretty clear they've already made up their minds before examining the evidence.

Death after a vaccination does not mean that the vaccination caused the death - for instance, getting hit by a bus. VAERS is, as you know, primarily an early warning system that anyone can update. One person claimed the flu vaccine turned him into the Hulk.

Chesterton · Monday at 12:26 PM

Hans Blaster said:
Thanks Michie, but unfortunately it doesn't explain the title of the thread, so...

Hey @Chesterton what backfired? Even the text of the article doesn't explain what *you* meant by "backfired".

Tropical Wilds said:
I guess I'm not sure what backfired...? Are we saying the intent behind Charlie Kirk's murder was to stop his organization from expanding and because there are new requests, the killing was a failure? Or to stop funding, so people collecting huge amounts of money on behalf of his death is indicative of failure in that goal? I'm not 100% sure what "it" is that backfired by somebody doing or not doing something.

First ask yourself what the intended purpose of a political assassination like this is. Then watch just the first 60 seconds of the below video and ask yourself "is this what the murderer intended, or is this the opposite of what he intended?" I don't know if Kirk was a household name, there were probably lots of boomers and other people who didn't know of him, but everyone around the world knows now. And they will be looking into his message and spreading it. I saw video of a young lady at the Unite The Kingdom rally in London holding a hand-made sign that read "Charlie Kirk brought me here".

Login to view embedded media

Ophiolite · Monday at 12:25 PM

Hvizsgyak said:
My question now is, if these people did that 2000 to 3000 years ago did others possible do the same thing.

Did other peoples do so? The idea is hardly new. While Heyerdahl's notion of a substantial peopling of the South America from Asia was argued to have taken place after the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), it lacks supporting evidence. However, there is reasonable support for contact between the two around AD1000 to 1300. Obviously, we know the Vikings settled in the North East, though likely those did not last. The Solutrean hypothesis promoted the idea of European settlement during the LGM, but the genetic data is very weak.

Hvizsgyak said:
So, the Americas may not have been settled only by the people coming through the Bering straits.

This has long been understood to be plausible, to varying degrees, but certainly did not account for the vast majority of American ancestry. That remains best explained by peoples of Asian and specifically Siberian genetics entering via Beringia.

Hvizsgyak said:
Historians are going to have to really come up with some new theories now.

Archaeologists and antrhopologists might be more appropriate, were any new theories required. I don't think there are. Even if this hypothesis turns out to be true then what we have is an interesting refinement of, and footnote, to the current understanding, not a rewriting of "history".

FireDragon76 · Monday at 12:21 PM

Vambram said:
Plenty of blame for the divide of tribalism in America is also on the left wing liberals. Charlie Kirk believes in peaceful dialog. It's too bad that the radical leftists don't also believe in that.

Charlie Kirk embodied smug contempt for millions of his fellow Americans who couldn't emulate his tradfamily lifestyle, paid for of course by billionaire dark money. He was not a man of peace in any deeply biblical sense, he was out to demean and scapegroat through pseudo-intellectual sophistry.

Delvianna · Monday at 12:20 PM

Motive is everything. Since the nature of the argument is not disclosed, there's no way to tell if this was a theological reason, or for literally any other reason.

rambot · Monday at 12:20 PM

Servus said:
When Jesus said love your neighbor, he didn't mean to put up with, condone or support wickedness and the wicked.

He said to love.
At NO point does he EVER quality that or provide exceptions.

He tells us to love our enemy.
Who is more our enemy than people you think are "wicked" or "condone wickedness"?

He tells us "Big deal. YOu love your loved ones....EVERYONE does that" (hence the lack of creedence to a "good father" being a good person or a good christian)

ralliann · Monday at 12:20 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
And it could cause violence that they are trans and affiliated with the shooter.

I highly doubt that. But the far greater one is those that consented people even celbrating as if Charley deserved it. Especially any in thair circle of friends knew about it

FireDragon76 · Monday at 12:18 PM

The Barbarian said:
And ultimately, that is what killed him. A right-winger so indoctrinated that he put Goyper slogans on his bullets, to kill someone for not being extreme right enough. Nick Fuentes targeted Kirk for hatred, and one of them acted on it.

View attachment 370060

A MAGA Groyper? Charlie Kirk shooter Tyler Robinson's political leaning unclear; Nick Fuentes reacts to 'pure evil' - The Times of India

Robinson was not a Groyper in any meaningful sense. He's from the same generation, probably inhabits some of the same spaces, but just because some of the memes are similar doesn't mean he shares a coherent ideology with Nick Fuentes.

rambot · Monday at 12:17 PM

probinson said:
Another way to say that is, study shows 25 children died as a result of the COVID vaccine.

Admittedly, I've not read this study yet. But here's what I've read about it:

The reported deaths originated in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the government’s database for suspected vaccine harms. Unlike the raw entries often left unexamined, FDA officials say they’ve investigated the cases.

They contacted families, reviewed autopsy results and gathered medical records. It appears that, for the first time since the vaccine rollout, U.S. regulators have attempted a systematic, case-by-case review of paediatric deaths.

FDA to present review of 25 child deaths after Covid vaccination

Agency insiders leaked details of an FDA review linking 25 paediatric deaths to Covid vaccination, sparking controversy ahead of a key CDC panel meeting in the coming week.

blog.maryannedemasi.com

There were reports of pediatric deaths through VAERS, and the FDA followed up with them and verified them. That sounds pretty important, since ostensibly, the reason VAERS exists is to capture vaccine ADVERSE events. Hopefully we can all agree that DEATH after vaccination certainly would qualify as adverse event worthy of follow up to confirm. If that is what the FDA study shows, then you'd think people would want to know about it.

Even if this study provides concrete evidence that COVID vaccines killed 25 children, I think there is a segment of people who will absolutely refuse to believe it. I mean, when the media starts their reporting with "ardent anti-vaccine activist", it's pretty clear they've already made up their minds before examining the evidence.

Death after a vaccination WOULD qualify as an "Adverse event". Of course, it means absolutely butkiss to causation. THAT is what i'm more interested in.

I am having trouble seeing how many doses of the vaccines have been given to children but I have found that from Dec 2020-June 21 9million were dispensed. So is it fair to say that there have been 30,000,000 vaccine doses given to kids? I think that's likely a conservatives estimate but fine. Frankly, I cannotimagine it is that low given that by 2023 81% of the population was vaccinated (There are 57.6 million under 18 in the US....so that number is likely quite low but fine...)

25 in 30,000,000...given that causation hasn't even been proven I think a reasonable person would see that as a "low risk" activity. Odds of being struck by lightening WITHIN THE CALENDAR YEAR are about 1 in 1.2mil...

I'll tell you this: I would want to see the report and hear from doctors who will study that report to hear their opinion on the science located in it.
If there IS causation, I would want to read about the vector and how THIS particular mRNA vaccines actually CAUSED those deaths.

I mean, IF you wanna talk about a group of people who are working from a bias, it is this administration and the people they hired.

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