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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Another look at the moon landing.

Yes I know that. But the reality is that they are there. And they have played a prominent role in shaping our histories for the past 400 yrs
400 years goes way beyond NASA, which only came into being on 29 July 1958. The general influence of Freemasonry seems to me to be beyond the scope of this thread.
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Your zealous promotion of your adopted religious philosophy, and your judgements against me notwithstanding, you asked me a question.

"Can you please show me a single place where I claimed that man is born immortal, I would never make such a silly statement in the first place."

Therefore, I posted two of your statements where you clearly promote the popular religious philosophy that humans are immortal. Some spend immortality in heaven with God, and some spend eternity being tortured with the demons who deceived them. I posted your own words where you preach to others that humans are immortal. I posed the question, if they are not born with immortality, which you and I believe is "Silly", then where did this Immortality that your statements claim they have, come from?

You didn't address the question, which is the most relevant question there is to ask, concerning the teaching that humans are immortal. I wish you had.

For me, I believe Jesus when HE said to "fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell fire", but "many", who come in Christ's Name, have chosen not to believe Him. When Jesus says "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise "perish".", I believe Jesus, but "many" who promote the philosophies of this world's religious system don't believe Him.

The Scriptures teach, "The Soul that sins shall die", not the "soul that sins shall be granted immortality, then be tortured fort eternity with the immortal angels that deceived them.

I have considered Lazarus and the Rich man, but not as a verse to separate from the rest of the Bible, and then used to support the teaching that all humans are immortal. But I added this verse with all the other verses concerning the resurrection, and studied them.

A few things you didn't mention, is that the Rich man wasn't cognoscente of the time that had passed between Abraham's resurrection and his. He had remained dead for a 1000 years while Abraham and Lazarus were reigning with Christ after Christ's Return. That's a pretty large "Gulf" that existed between them. This means he didn't know his brothers were dead as well.

Luke 16 consists a group of Parables Jesus taught the people.

You have said in your statements "Death is being separated from God for all eternity, so they experience dying an d death forever while they are fully conscience with all of their feelings intact."

And yet in the Parable of Jesus you use to promote that all men are immortal, the Rich man was in the presence of God, and not only Him, but in the presence of Abraham and Lazarus as well. Surely you can see the contradiction.

Now understand that I believe I are free to adopt and promote whatever religious philosophy you want in my view, and I am only sharing the reasons why I don't believe in this popular religious philosophy, that all men are immortal.

And it is because of consideration of "ALL" Scriptures that I believe this. It is written in the Holy Scriptures:

Deut. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that "I have set before you" life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed "may live":

This popular religious philosophy that God lied to all these people who chose "Death", and chose instead to give them immortality, and torture them forever along with the immortal angels that deceived them, is an awful and wicked judgment against God, and is not supported by Scriptures, if all of God's Words are considered, in my view.

It would be helpful if you could show us when God granted these men immortality, since you believe it is Silly to suggest they were born with it.

Perhaps I missed it in my studies. If you could show me where God directed Moses and the Prophets to teach us that all men are immortal, I would greatly appreciate it. The way it stands right now in my understanding, "If a man doesn't believe Moses and the Prophets, that the soul that sins "shall die", then neither will they be persuaded by Jesus, who rose from the dead, when HE teaches, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
I have never made the silly claim that men are immortal, I have asked you to show me where I claimed this and you failed to do so.

My theology is in line with 2000 years of Church history, I don't have any private views or opinions, while your theology is entirely based on your private opinions. Not a single doctrine that you hold to is supported by any scripture, I have asked why you reject what God has said, but you simply refuse to answer the question.

If someone charged me with promoting false doctrines, I wouldn't rest until I either proved my case, or I would seek to be corrected and learn the truth of the matter. But it seems that you're not interested in the truth at all, since you won't reveal why you reject what God has said.

I have asked you to define the meaning of the words "life" and "death", but you have failed to state what you believe they mean. Yet you keep referring to the same few verses, which have these two words in them. But you refuse to state what you think these words actually mean.

You claim that death means "Annihilation" or "cessation of existence", but the Bible never ever describes death in those terms. I asked you to find a singe verse to support your opinion, but you ignore my request and simply refer to the same old verse which say noting of the sort. So I assume you have nothing apart from your private opinion, (which appears to be based on your emotions) rather than Gods Word.
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Programming Club

If we're to start a club project, what would you want to build ??

Well, since you’re Catholic and I’m Orthodox, and a lot of members of the site are liturgical Christians, or are Christians who attend churches that use a lectionary such as the Revised Common Lectionary, I think a generic framework for managing the variable portions of worship services, ranging from appointed scripture lessons to the more sophisticated and elaborate propers of the Catholic, Orthodox and Lutheran liturgies (and also those of some Anglican churches and Ordinariate chruches which in addition to the Collect and the appointed scripture lessons, also use additional liturgical resources, some of which work with the Book of Common Prayer or the Book of Divine Worship, such as the 19th century classics Ritual Notes or the Directorum Anglicanorum, and some of which are used with the Anglican Missal, which is basically an English translation of the old Latin missal with some minor variations.

The key word here is generic - a basic building block type system which could be used by existing projects such as DivinumOfficium.com, CopticReader, the Liturgical Resources Department of the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, which currently has a primtive app that only displays PDFs, and the Ponomar Project which has done some automation (of these, divinumofficium.com probably has the most impressive tech, although lately they’ve also had a number of bugs, for example, the system failing to display the text of a mass on an arbitrary date in any format other than the basic low mass (so no text for a solemn mass for dates other than the present, for instance).

A basic text processing system built around managing variable text portions of a worship service, which could be changed in systems using the library either automatically based on the calendar date, or manually based on the preferences of the congregation or celebrant, since for example, the ordinary form of the Roman Missal provides four Eucharistic Prayers (plus a few additional ones for special purposes if I recall) and has several other variable portions, and the 1979 Episcopal Book of Common Prayer is the same (indeed, the 1979 BCP even followed the same sequence as the the Roman Missal in terms of the Eucharistic prayers, so the first one is the traditional Anglican Holy Communion service, the second one is, like the Roman Missal, based on the Anaphora of the Apostolic Tradition of St. Hippolytus, the third one is a variant of the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, and the fourth one is Eucharistic Prayer no. 4 from the Roman Missal, which was intended for ecumenical celebrations of the liturgy); among more ancient liturgies, Coptic Orthodox liturgy allows for three Anaphoras (Eucharistic Prayers) to be used at the discretion of the celebrant and a large number of Fraction Prayers which are said while the priest breaks the bread, the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church likewise provides a choice of around 14 Anaphoras, including one which is a complete, unabbreviated version of the Anaphora of the Apostolic Tradition of St. Hippolytus (documented in the third century by St. Hippolytus of Rome, but we know it was the ancient liturgy of Antioch, which later underwent revisions in wording, and the revised version is still used by the Syriac Orthodox and Maronite Catholics, but is also the basis for the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, however, since the Ethiopians use the unrevised version and have done so since the fourth century, it is probably the oldest liturgical text in use in the world in substantially its original form); speaking of which the Syriac Orthodox Divine Liturgy has 86 Anaphoras of which decent English translations exist of around 16 of them.

Conversely, most Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Rite Catholic (such as the Ukrainian Catholics, Ruthenian Greek Catholics, Melkite Catholics, Italo-Albanian Greek Catholics, the actual Greek Catholics of Greece, among many others) churches only use two Divine Liturgies, plus the Presanctified Liturgy, and when they use them is based on a highly prescriptive liturgical calendar which specifies absolutely everything such as the hymns to be sung at each service, what to do when two feasts such as a movable feast connected to the date of Easter and a fixed feast coincide, for example, if the Annunciation falls on the same day as Palm Sunday or even Pascha (Easter Sunday) - the latter event resulting in a particularly beautiful celebratory liturgy). There are other Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic anaphoras, such as the Divine Liturgy of St. James, which several Eastern Orthodox churches will celebrate this Thursday, the feast of St. James on the Revised Julian and Gregorian calendars, and the much less commonly used Divine Liturgy of St. Mark, a version of the ancient liturgy of Alexandria (which the Copts also celebrate) and the Divine Liturgy of St. Peter, which uses the Roman Canon, or Eucharistic Prayer 1 as its called in the Novus Ordo Missae.

Now all this complexity need not concern us, since what I propose is not an implementation but rather a toolkit designed to simplify the process of writing automated systems to handle all of the above. Indeed I have a complete set of specifications for this and was working on one before I fell ill; I’m a member of a group called LiturgyWorks which consists of various scholars, clergy and others interested in liturgies, and who have produced a number of texts which will be released into the public domain or in some cases under an open source license such as a creative commons license, but we made the decision to delay releasing them until we had an open source system which could allow for them to be used dynamically. I’ve been working on implementing that with AI, but got sidetracked with research into improving the AI system itself, for example, with biomimetic reproduction like I described above.

The difficulty level for the project is low, since its basically just a content management system adapted for handling liturgical texts, and using AI, we can make the development of it even easier by automating some of the more boring bits of code. What makes it interesting however would be in getting it to work ideally based on using an AI to generate the automation instructions from existing liturgical text books, by reading the rubrics, which would involve interfacing with an AI system (by making API calls to openAI or another provider, or alternately using an open source AI, which I would prefer - and interestingly, chatGPT will let you use it to develop training data for an open source special purpose AI such as one optimized to read rubrics and generate the appropriate text. Doing this using AI makes sense to me, because LLMs are the ultimate pattern-matching software; it’s like having a version of grep, sed, awk, m5, and all the other classic UNIX text processing tools, or equivalent tools some GNU, Linux and other developers use with GNU Emacs, but that one can converse with, in the English language or any number of other languages, even extinct languages such as Akkadian or Sumerian.

By the way my openAi Business account allows me to add people to my team which I would do for any serious contributor to this project, which would provide access to openAI’s Codex system for software development as well as the possibility of working on some of the advanced AI projects I have in mind. I’m presently already planning on adding a third seat to my account, since for various reasons I wound up using both of the two seats my business account requires as a minimum, and a third seat would allow me to let people who I’ve promised to allow see my AIs, such as my friend @Xeno.of.athens , access, and it could also be used periodically by people involved in this liturgical toolkit project.
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

You have not even established your point that we the Body of Christ can now take the covenants and promises of Israel, and Paul in Romans 9:4 clearly said that all those BELONG to Israel.

If you are no longer making that point, we can move on.
The Gentile Ministers of the New Covenant haven't partook of the New Covenant promised to Israel? Try reading the post again and again, "Do we still sin? Then be not deceived, the Law is for sinners. For by the Law is the knowledge of sin. The Righteous, the Just live out of Faith, This Faith establishes the Law. This Faith is a gift from God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. His Word, His Law is in our hearts and in our mouths through His Spirit that we do it. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For in Him we are to be living, moving and have our being. If not, then we are not all that He would have us be. The New Covenant ministers ministering, letters with the engrafted word in our hearts. Written by the Spirit of the Living God. Not on tables of stone, or parchment but the fleshly tables of the heart by His Spirit. A new creature of His kind, begotten by the Word of truth. Not that our sufficiency is in of ourselves. It is of God. Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
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Smartmatic indicted in foreign bribery case, possibly endangering its lawsuits against Fox News and Giuliani

That was a 180 day review period. The review period is over, the deadline has passed.
Good catch in correcting me. You are right but the focus is still changed. Corruption which is the case with smartomatic, is being allowed for others and in its place the DOJ is tageting cartels and things of national security interest. Here is from google ai when I asked about the status of the FC Bribery Act and the DOJ. Yes, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) is still prosecuting under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), but with a new, more focused enforcement strategy. The DOJ will now prioritize cases that involve national security, Transnational Criminal Organizations (TCOs) and cartels, and serious bribery schemes, rather than all cases of corruption.
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Criminal Illegal Alien Who Offered $10,000 Bounties to Murder ICE Agents Arrested in Dallas, TX

Go back and read what he says. His message is for black and brown Americans, not people here illegally. Non citizens and the undocumented are already barred from legally purchasing a firearm so this doesn’t apply to them. This government isn’t being tyrannical towards people breaking the law here. It hasn’t sent its military and federal forces into foreign countries, they’re being deployed to American cities, to intimidate American citizens.
Do you honestly believe they're being sent to intimidate law-abiding citizens?
They’re just lucky to be picking on people who aren’t really the militia “don’t tread on me” Gadsden flag types.
Now that is a good second amendment argument.
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram
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How can we save America from the radicals?

I would argue that crony capitalism is worse than some forms of Marxism. The former uses the power of government to pass on benefits to only certain businesses through regulation and subsidies. Trump has added a bit of Marxism also by having the U.S. government buy stakes in companies like Intel with more purchases on the way. Trump also has been cheerleading USA investment by the hundreds of billions. Many might think this is great. The problem is that there are limited investment dollars and if investment is wasted it will certainly hurt the future. That is why capitalists prefer the market drives investment rather than government. Trump too has propelled crypto forward. Sometimes I make money trading. various kinds of stocks, currencies and commodities. But other than enahnce or subtract from my pocketbook, what is that creating? So many poeple making money off those who are essentially bagholders, left with the bills while another is left with the prize. In real estate Trump often created. His crypto and media ventures though are not creating much except the transfer of wealth to himself and those who funded his campaign. He has essentially rigged the system that way. Trump and sons' stake in crypto firm worth $5bn
America needs free from all sorts of bondages, including big government, debt, too much meddling, and self serving politicians. Trump rid the USA from some of the leftist extremes, but instead of draining the swamp he just changed the water. To me Sen Rand is one of the few that offer the USA the way out. Sure some, don't like that the idea of following international law as they prefer vigliante justice on the high seas. But just as Ron Paul his father voted against the war in Iraq, his son is raising principled objections to the blowing up of alleged drug dealer boats. From the two survivors, a Columbian and a man from Ecuador, can't people see that Trump has widened his war, widened the justification and created mission creep that is making the USA the drug police of all South America.
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Programming Club

Yes, but if you do systems programming, you won't need JS and Python.
Do you use C for systems programming?

For systems programming, primarily C with some use of D, which is a rather nice systems programming language that is underrated; Rust gets a lot of the attention I think D properly deserves (and before Rust stole D’s limelight, that attention was going to Go, a programming language written by Rob Pike’s group at Google, which is a good language, but among the people who tried getting into it when it was very much hyped up, it seems like most of them weren’t clever enough to take advantage of its unique features, which was also the case with the Plan 9 operating system and the conceptually related Inferno OS (which interestingly can run in a web browser as well as on bare metal, and which was intended for the Internet of Things before anyone knew what the Internet of Things was; for example, to justify its development to Bell Labs*, the Inferno developers suggested it could run on advanced desktop office phones allowing for a variety of sophisticated features, and such a phone running Inferno was sold; basically it was a landline smartphone (or technically, a wired smartphone - since IIRC it was not a PSTN phone but rather one that would either be behind a PBX or perhaps connected via some posh Centrex style service, perhaps using ISDN). Go at least has seen some use inside Google if memory serves. Also when doing actual development of embedded operating systems, which usually entails porting an existing open source operating system to a new device (although I do work with Wind River and QNX among other proprietary systems) there is often a need to work with assembler code for the platform, and when developing device drivers, sometimes one has to talk directly to the hardware in question (and since a lot of embedded real time OSes are by design, very simple, frequently they lack the facilities to help you do this that you get with a more fully featured OS like FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, Illumos (formerly known as Solaris) or Microsoft Windows; indeed Windows has a highly developed driver framework which has become more restrictive because the massive crash that happened recently due to a buggy enterprise antivirus product, as documented in this article on ArsTechnica: Microsoft changes Windows in attempt to prevent next CrowdStrike-style catastrophe

Of course, with an embedded RTOS like eCos, there are fewer people trying to hack it, but given what such OSes are used for, security can be very high-stakes; indeed recall how the STUXNet OS was designed to infect Windows workstations in order to upload code to a Siemens industrial computer called a SCADA system that is used in many industries, but the code was specifically intended to change the RPMs in centrifuges being used by Iran’s nuclear project in such a way as to damage the centrifuges and slow down the project; many people regard the US-Israeli design to be the world’s first cyberweapon, but I rather doubt this; rather’ it was the first highly sophisticated attack of its sort which happened to be exposed, probably because getting it onto the computers in question involved, among other things, releasing the Windows malware component of it into the wild, which resulted in security professionals analyzing it and scrutinizing it and eventually the world learned of its true purpose.


*This was during an era when AT&T and then Lucent were increasingly demanding the research be aligned with immediate corporate objectives as the Labs continued their decline from an intellectual powerhouse like a combination of the RAND Corporation with MIT, a place where researchers could focus on research without needing to serve as professors. This decline is a shame, as it left the universities with a monopoly on that sort of innovation, and at its peak Bell Labs gave us much of the vital technology that enables our modern civilization, not just brilliant operating systems like UNIX or brilliant application software for various purposes, but transistors, and also many advances outside the field of telecom and computer science.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

That hardly answers my question...
A lot following this that serves no purpose in me trying to forumate an answer.
What is the pertinent difference?
I don't get this. I specifically said more than once that it was the lack of context. I'll repeat that:
IT'S THE LACK OF CONTEXT.
What context is missing that is present in the first question?
So you DO understand that it's a lack of context. And I literally listed many examples of it. I literally wrote them out for you. They are there so you can understand what was missing. Why on earth are you asking what they are when in the specific post to which you are replying it exp,ains what some of them are.

This conversation is going to end soon. We've done this dance before. I'll post something and you'll completely ignore it. It's getting to the point where I'll be asking a specific question and you can answer it or it will end.

Not to anyone but myself, and frankly what better justification is there than "God said it, so it must be true."?
If that's your argument for believing in absolute morality then so be it. The single question that requires a simple answer is on the horizon.
The only thing I've been debating is to point out that absent some objective basis there's no such thing as morality.
Then that is debating morality. You have a position on it and you are trying to put it forward. And failing, it must be said.
Bradskii, king of the strawman. No where did I say an act can be absent, simply that the moral character need not be inherent in the act to be objective.
No, it needs context. The question will arrive soon regarding this...
Nope, you seem to not realize I have answered your question by presenting Singer's thought experiment because there is no pertinent difference. The question is, why do you think these situations are different? What is the supposed missing context?
Again, it was explained in a lot of detail. This discussion will be ending soon if you continue this farce.
You think too highly of yourself.
Gosh, was that a judgement of me that you just made? I think it was. It was trying to explain that you have made no judgements of me? You need to take a day or two and regroup I think.
"Context" is not an answer, its a vague general statement that doesn't identify what's supposed to be the difference maker.
The difference is the context. I think I see that question approaching quite quickly...
Ah...so if I determine that it's right to kill infidels, then it is right to kill infidels? Seems to rob the concept of any meaning.
If you decide it's right then you have decided it's right. That's it. I just hope that you have some good arguments to back up your position. To, you know, debate it. 'Because my source says it's ok' is, as we have agreed, not acceptable.
Yours aren't? So what is your non-arbitrary way of determining the validity of a moral position? Is it purely your decision what is right or wrong, or is there some moral reality independent of what anyone believes to be right or wrong?
Again, I gave a list of means whereby we might determine it. And you have simply ignored them and asked the same question again.

This stops now. I'm up to the back teeth of me explaining my position and then have you asking me to explain my position. I've had enough of giving you my reasons and then you again asking me what my reasons are. There'll be no more of me telling you how I come to my decisions and then you asking me how I come to my decisions.

All you have offered (and as I said, we've done the dance before) is negativity. Nothing more that 'you are wrong' and you've presented nothing whatsoever to back up your own position (whatever it exactly might be).

There may be that one question arriving soon. I may post it later. I won't be interested in anything else you say unless you specifically answer it.
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Trump's reputation will age like fine wine

Wait, if the concept of a King is abhorrent... remind me again, who's technically the sovereign over Australia?

If ONLY Trump were "King" over America in the modern, nerfed Westminster sense of the word - your country might have a chance.

But he's a President who wants to be "King" or is that Emperor? With the power creep of the last 50 years has access to various 'emergency powers' that have not all been tested, some of them potentially combining in unanticipated and concerning ways.

I hope your courts can stand up to him. Otherwise, America might lose her way, as Rome did after Julius as it abandoned the old Senate and became an Empire with an Emperor.
  • Wow
Reactions: Vambram
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How do we set aside the grace of God?

So some works are more devastating than others.

Alright then, I understand better what you mean when you say "salvation is by faith alone without works".

You must have read Grace Evangelical Society in forming doctrines like that.
My doctrine comes from scripture and what God shows me.
If you read Romans 8, it explains about staying in the Spirit fulfills the law of sin and death. If one doesn't stay in the Spirit the law of sin and death is not fulfilled, and death is the result. That is God's doctrine.
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Who is on the Lords Side?

Verse 5 says ‘the Lord dwells on high’. So, before His Return, we see in verses 3-4 & 10-11, the nations as at present and in V14 Judah’s judgement. V15-16 say His faithful people will live prosperously in the Land, then V17-24 speaks of the Return of Jesus and His reign during the Millennium.
Technically Jesus never left, remember? "I will never leave or forsake you."

Point remains unaddressed by you is: Where in your timeline is the devil (and his messengers) sent to the fire?

Until that happens, there is nothing different than what it is today

I'll take it that you preferred to not address the fact of Rev. 5:13, all of creation praising God, and are sticking to the blood and guts destruction scenario for people only
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Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

First of all, the Jews having a state is not occupation - so we will end this here.

The Jews have a right to self rule. Israel exists, it's not "occupied Palestine"., it's the nation of Israel next to what people are calling Palestine.
It's a bit more complicated than that. While on paper, there exists Israel, and next to those are the Gaza strip and the west bank, which are Palestine, in reality a lot of the west bank is settled by israeli settlers, a process that has been going on for decades and is actively supported by the israeli government. The west bank looks more like a swiss cheese than a proper country.

It would be like US farmers starting to settle and farm on mexican land beyond the southern US border. In any real two state solution, those farms would have to be removed so that proper borders could be established.
  • Agree
Reactions: JosephZ
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Is Romans 3:25 in the Greek in ANY manuscript version the same? (Some who knows greek - help)

I’m trying to convince a brother in christ “Faith in the blood” is a real thing in the Bible. It’s not found in his translation esv but only in the kjv.
He said I’m not qualified to interpret these and he doesn't trust the chat gtp answer so I'm looking for someone who knows greek who can chime in here and small possibility of being willing to standby your response in case he wants to chime in - no pressure though.


Across ANY greek manuscript for any location/source - is it true, “faith in the blood” is the most literal “accurate” word for word translation in all manuscripts - there is 100% agreement and ZERO doubt. “Faith in the blood” is a phrase inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Is this correct?

Below is the chatgtp answer - is it reliable?



All ancient Greek manuscripts — Textus Receptus, Majority (Byzantine), Vaticanus (Alexandrian), and the modern Critical Text — say the same thing.
Every one of them contains the phrase ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ, which literally means “in His blood.”


1. Textus Receptus (1550 / Beza 1598)

Greek:
ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων ἐν τῇ ἀνοχῇ τοῦ θεοῦ.

Literal translation:
“Whom God set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.”

Plain meaning:
God presented Jesus as the mercy seat, and we receive forgiveness through faith in His blood.


2. Byzantine / Majority Text (2005 Robinson–Pierpont)

Greek:
ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων ἐν τῇ ἀνοχῇ τοῦ θεοῦ.

Literal translation:
“Whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, for a demonstration of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the sins that had been previously committed in the forbearance of God.”

Plain meaning:
The Byzantine manuscripts repeat the same words — faith in His blood.
No differences at all.


3. Codex Vaticanus (B, 4th century) / Alexandrian Family

Greek (transcribed from Vaticanus):
ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων ἐν τῇ ἀνοχῇ τοῦ θεοῦ.

Literal translation:
“Whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to show His righteousness because of the passing over of former sins in the forbearance of God.”

Plain meaning:
Even the oldest Alexandrian manuscript, Vaticanus, says faith in His blood.
There is no variant—every copy agrees.


4. Modern Critical Text (NA-28 / UBS-5)

Greek:
ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων ἐν τῇ ἀνοχῇ τοῦ θεοῦ.

Literal translation:
“Whom God put forward as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness because of the passing over of previous sins in the forbearance of God.”

Plain meaning:
Even the modern scholarly Greek text agrees word-for-word with the older manuscripts:
through faith in His blood.


Simple conclusion anyone can grasp​

All Greek manuscripts — old and new — say διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ,
which every translator in history knows literally means
“through faith in His blood.”

There are no textual differences here.
The only difference is how English translators choose to paraphrase it:

Greek phraseLiteral EnglishSome modern paraphrases
διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦthrough faith in His bloodby His blood to be received by faith (ESV); through the shedding of His blood to be received by faith (NIV)
So the Greek itself — in every manuscript — affirms faith in His blood.
The translation philosophy, not the manuscripts, causes newer Bibles to soften or re-word it.


Short summary​

Every Greek text of Romans 3 : 25 — Textus Receptus, Majority, Vaticanus, and Critical — contains the same words διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αἵματι αὐτοῦ, literally “through faith in His blood.”
The phrase is not a KJV addition; it’s the unanimous Greek reading.

Heating up down under

Nice! So what else does ChatGPT say?

What have YOU read about him? Johan himself started off in agricultural and soil science. Then the wiki explains: "He received his Ph.D. in 1997 from Stockholm University, where his research was on "Systems Ecology and Natural Resource Management.""
That is a huge, multi-disciplinary subject.

In 2009 he lead a team of academics - many of whom are world famous climate scientists and atmospheric physicists.
It's not the 2000+ scientists of the IPCC - but it's a respectable group. (See names below)
Do you recognise any of these names as climate scientists?

His TED talk is follow up work from his climate peers - analysing the Climate Sensitivity.

(That the "climate's changed before, ya know?" thing that helps them know just how serious this is!)

And here's the deal. They used to think the CLIMATE FEEDBACKS kicked in at 5 degrees. Time passed, more paleoclimate data came in - and then it was 4 degrees. Etc etc until now it's 1.5 degrees of warming and we start to enter danger zones where natural feedbacks can start to warm the planet even further than we have. There are 12 feedback systems that are getting primed. Some of them kick off earlier than others. The earlier ones might cook the planet up to the next stage when the next one fires - and like a series of dominoes - within a few generations we're on a planet we hardly recognise!

This is a point Christian climatologist Katharine Hayhoe says.

It's more likely that the conservative projections of the IPCC are UNDER representing the actual level of risk!

Johan Rockström
Will Steffen
Kevin Noone
Åsa Persson
Stuart III Chapin
Eric Lambin
Timothy M. Lenton
Marten Scheffer
Carl Folke
Hans Joachim Schellnhuber
Björn Nykvist
Cynthia A. de Wit
Terry Hughes
Sander van der Leeuw
Henning Rodhe
Sverker Sörlin
Peter K. Snyder
Robert Costanza
Uno Svedin
Malin Falkenmark
Louise Karlberg
Robert W. Corell
Victoria J. Fabry
James Hansen
Brian Walker
Diana Liverman
Katherine Richardson
Paul Crutzen
Jonathan Foley
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Another look at the moon landing.

Yes but Aaron who gives us the strength to endure and to not love our lives under such circumstances . It be the power of Christ up on a cross one Friday that loved his church to the very end and the comforter that keeps any of us. And without that we all still be mere mortals. As I said everyone has a price you probably just haven’t realised it yet. And hopefully you never will. Before the Ck crows thrice you will deny me 3 times
Your knowledge is far far less than Scriptural. While most people have been deluded for centuries about the crucifixion, if you start seeking truth, and keep seeking truth, trusting the Creator , trusting Jesus, then a whole new world, even God's Kingdom, may open up to you , as written, God Willing.
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Dual Booting a PC

WINE was always iffy for me. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. One year, when the kids got a game from grandparents, it wouldn't run on our old machine under Windows, but worked perfectly fine on the same machine in Linux under WINE. In those days was tinkering with Debian and Ubuntu, so don't recall which distro it was.
Maybe boot Linux and run Windows in a VM
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Another look at the moon landing.

She was most definitely trying her hardest for me to call Charles Duke a liar so she could report it. But @Strong in Him your little game didn't work.
She didn't need to try anything. You volunteered your opinion without any prompting at all and now you want to play the victim.
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