BCP1928 said:

Nor is it the view of anyone in this forum.

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"Perhaps Americans should stop taking illegal drugs. It's not as if the cartels were making them - they are seeking them out and paying good money."
Post #4

durangodawood said:

Trump didnt get where he's at by alienating his supporters. I think they like that sort of thing.

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Trump is still okay with his followers, which imho does note reflect well on them. His approval though, has really dropped with Independents and of course, is terrible with Democrats.

Rachel Maddow covered the protests and I was impressed by the volume and numbers of rallies that took place in all 50 states. There were 100 rallies in Michigan alone. Thousands turned out in a rally held in The Villages in Florida. There were multiple rallies held in Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Alabama, Iowa, Nebraska and other red states. I think she said there were 60 rallies in Arizona. Most of the rallies had a large number in attendance.

Here is the video about the protests:

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Here is an article about the rallies in Alaska:

Alaskans came out to protest the Trump administration as part of the nationwide No Kings protest on Saturday, with speeches, songs, and increasingly creative flair — signs, slogans, and costumes, some as inflatable animals like eagles and polar bears.

In downtown Anchorage, protesters filled Town Square Park, and the crowd spilled over to line W 5th and W 6th avenues, where they waved signs and passing cars honked in support.

“It’s a matter of we are losing our rights,” said Keri Lord of Anchorage, dressed in a long cape and crown for the no kings theme. “And we are headed towards fascism, and it needs to stop now.”

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About the protests in Idaho:



Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/article312557751.html#storylink=cpy

Life at 12,000 feet (6,000 PSI) at what pressure the OceanGate Titan submersible imploded in June of 2023. This new species of Jellyfish was found in the Marianas Trench at those depths. - New Species of Unusual Jellyfish Discovered 2.3 Miles Below the Ocean's Surface

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Our cat seems dumb.

DUMB

Dan1988 said:

I have studied the entire bible and I've never found anything to support your view that "you do indeed have to participate".
Jesus never said "you have to do something", to earn salvation. He said it was a gift, so your view is not based on any Bible doctrine.

Christianity 101 is ---

Ephesians 1:4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

As you can see from the verses above, your "saved by works" version of the gospel, falls down like the tower of Babel, when you shine the light of Gods Word on it.

Salvation is not by works, it is the gift of God and it was settled before the world was made. So you couldn't be further from the truth.

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The elect are chosen according to His foreknowledge, not just randomly or on a whim.

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

GoldenBoy89 said:

The no kings protests were great to see but if people are really serious we need a nationwide general strike now. Don’t let the momentum fizzle out or wait to see what happens in the midterms.

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A general strike would likely get the Congress’ and Senate’s attention…maybe March of 2026?

BPPLEE said:

So you can just tell them to stop taking drugs and that will solve the problem? That historically has not been the liberal view nor that users are to blame

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Nor is it the view of anyone in this forum.

The chili is too spicy.

CHILI

The ocean depths...

Sunlight Zone - Photosynthesis occurs above 200 meters (650')
Twilight Zone - Sunlight reaches the max depth of 1,000 meters (3,280')
Aphotic Zone - Sunlight does not penetrate below 1,000 meters (3,280')
Titanic - Rests at 3,800 meters (12,500')
Challenger Deep - In the Mariana's Trench- 11,000 meters (36,000') deep

The ocean pressures...

Sunlight Zone - 300 PSI
Twilight Zone - 1,500 PSI
Aphotic Zone - 1,500 PSI
Titanic - 6,000 PSI - 400x that of sea level
Challenger Deep - 16,000 PSI

Only 27 people have visited Challenger Deep, or about as many who have visited the moon.

childeye 2 said:

The tares like obscurity and darkness because they don't want to be found.
The wheat like clarity and Light because they want to be found.

Therefore, it's wrong to use unqualified terms that obscure rather than clarify.

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i.e. tares like rules that protect their dark and wrong motives ? Yet want to be heard/ 'found'/ 'popular'/ 'accepted'/ 'listened to' / 'attention' ........ a real mix of mostly or all shellfish motives/intents/purposes easy to hide online ......
When tares are in power, in control, what becomes of the average 'normal' person who doesn't know this ?

SabbathBlessings said:

Dear friend,

You have not provided any Scripture to prove your points, your arguments are not with me, but with the Scriptures.

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My argument isn't with scripture but your interpretation of scripture. You ignore so much.

SabbathBlessings said:

God added no more Deut5:22 is not God kept adding to the Ten Commandments.

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If you read Deut. better you will see that the Mosaic laws, including the 10 Commandments were made with Israel in the wilderness, not before.

Deuteronomy 4 : 1-2

(1] And now, O Israel, hearken unto the statutes and unto the ordinances, which I teach you, to do them; that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which Jehovah, the God of your fathers, giveth you. [2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you...

Deuteronomy 4 : 13
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 4 : 40
And thou shalt keep his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days in the land, which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deuteronomy 5 : 1-3
[1] And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them. [2] Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. [3] Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

As you can see, the 10 Commandments did not predate Moses, though the Noahide laws contained most of the 10.

Scores is a naughty place.

Pommer said:

But meth is (mostly) a homegrown drug.

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We have cooks but a lot comes from Mexico
According to Google:
In North America, most methamphetamine is produced in large "superlabs" in Mexico by drug cartels, with precursor chemicals largely sourced from China
. Significant methamphetamine production hubs also exist in Southeast Asia and Afghanistan.
North American market

• Mexico: Mexican drug trafficking organizations (DTOs) dominate the wholesale methamphetamine trade in the United States. After the U.S. restricted access to precursor chemicals like pseudoephedrine in 2005, Mexican cartels began producing unprecedented quantities of high-purity, low-cost methamphetamine. The Sinaloa Cartel and the Jalisco New Generation Cartel (CJNG) are the dominant players.
• Precursor chemicals: While the finished product comes from Mexico, the precursor chemicals needed to manufacture methamphetamine are primarily sourced from China and India. These are shipped to Mexico, where the manufacturing takes place.
• Canada: Canada also has methamphetamine production, though on a smaller scale than in Mexico, with some of the drug being trafficked into the United States.
• U.S. domestic productionomestic production in the United States still occurs in smaller labs but has declined significantly since the rise of more cost-effective, high-purity Mexican methamphetamine.

Global market

• Southeast Asia: The production of methamphetamine for Asian and Oceanian markets is concentrated in Myanmar and the broader Lower Mekong Basin, including Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. These producers often manufacture both crystal methamphetamine and methamphetamine tablets (known as "yaba").
• Afghanistan: Traditionally known for heroin production, Afghanistan has become a significant source of methamphetamine, fueled in part by the availability of the ephedra plant as a local precursor.
• Europe: Methamphetamine manufacture is spreading across Europe at lower levels. Production methods vary by region, with some labs importing chemicals from Mexico and others operating closer to the consumer market.

Manufacturing trends
The global illicit methamphetamine market is constantly adapting to law enforcement efforts. When pseudoephedrine was restricted, traffickers switched to other precursor chemicals, such as P2P (phenyl-2-propanone). This has led to an increase in sophisticated, high-volume labs and fewer smaller, domestic labs, particularly in North America.

Dan1988 said:

No, the point is that it's impossible to continue in the faith, without backsliding and falling away. Every single Born again Christian, will backslide and fall away. But thank God He draws us back to Himself every single time, so if salvation was dependant on our efforts to remain faithful and steadfast in the faith, nobody would be saved.

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Stumbling in sin isn’t falling away. Falling away is turning away from faith in Christ and the gospel, not stumbling in sin. If failing to remain in Christ isn’t an option for believers then John 15:1-7 is a useless message that is describing an impossible scenario and Paul’s message to Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:12 is also a useless message. Both Jesus and Paul were warning their disciples of a real danger, not an impossible scenario.

Dan1988 said:

God is the author and finisher of salvation, He chose to save His elect before He created the earth. God wrote the name of every single one of His elect in His book, before He created the world. You simply can't get around that fact, so it was a done deal before time began, and you are wrong to suggest that it's not.

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The elect were chosen according to God’s foreknowledge. He foresaw those who would choose to believe of their own free will and who would abide in Christ and endure to the end.

Dan1988 said:

As mentioned earlier, the bible is crystal clear that "you can do nothing without God". He must do it all for you, or you will remain dead in your sin forever. And the fact that born again Christians, strive to live in obedience to God, is not a testimony of their strength or ability or determination or faith or anything else of theirs. It's actually evidence that God is working in their lives to conform us, to sanctify us and ultimately transform us into the image of His Son.

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You’re misquoting John 15:4 “without Me you can do nothing”. In what context did Jesus say those words? He said that when He was warning His 11 faithful apostles about the importance of abiding in Him and warning them about the consequences of failing to abide in Him. So the way you’re using that statement here doesn’t make any sense at all. Why is Jesus telling His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him and bear fruit if it’s not up to them and they have no control over whether or not they abide in Christ or whether they bear fruit or not? And why is He telling them the consequences of failing to abiding in Him in verse 6 if they can’t fail to abide in Him? In Matthew 10:28 Jesus tells His apostles “do not fear those who are able to kill the body but are unable to kill the soul but fear Him who is able to kill both body and soul in hell”. What is the point of that statement?

Dan1988 said:

Nobody come willingly, we all go kicking and screaming as it contrary to what we want to do. We love our sin by nature, God Word confirms that there are none who seek after Him, and all have gone astray. There is none righteous, no not one.

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Romans 3:10-12 is not a literal statement, it’s a proverbial statement. It’s like if I were to say no one writes letters anymore because of email and social media. It’s not intended to be taken literally that not a single person on the planet writes letters anymore, it’s intended to imply that very few people write letters anymore because Paul also wrote that none are righteous, and yet the scriptures specifically state that many people are in fact righteous. Able, Noah, Job, Lot, Abraham, Zachariah, and a few others were specifically said to be righteous men, not to mention Jesus Christ Himself.

dune buggy

Hentenza said:

n your opinion and interpretation. Tell me do the wicked cease to exist in the following verse?

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Yes, as I've stated when we take the bible as a whole we can see very clearly what will happen to the wicked. That verse just means that fire is unquenchable by our human standards. But as God states there will be neither root or branch left. They will consume away to ashes. That's what a fire does.

But believe what you will, we shall see....

A New Dawn said:

One can only be ignorant of sin if we don’t know what sin is, which could have only happened prior to eating of the tree of knowledge. Once we know what sin is, we can no longer be ignorant. We are blind.

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Jesus said:


We are in a state of blindness or spiritual ignorance until God reveals Himself to us. In blindness, Jesus said "we would have no sin".

It is after Jesus reveals His word and grace that we become accountable for our sins. We then have a choice to make:



Once our ears are open, we become accountable for our actions. Some people love their sin too much to come to Jesus, others are willing to forsake it.


This is not a one-time event, God often softens the heart of the sinner to His word. We see this process in:


Which shows that salvation can go either way, based upon the person's choices. God seeks fruit in the person, if He does not find it initially, He keeps trying, then only gives up after time.

Postvieww said:

Somebody has been fooled! There are bank records that contradict that.

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When were these bank records proven to show bribes?

Guojing said:

Galatians 3 says nothing about us being the elect.

It says we are righteous by faith without works.

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Faith is a gift to the chosen.

durangodawood said:

"Shall not be infringed".

I do understand the need to infringe upon the right in various circumstances. But we have to disregard the constitution to an extent.

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Personally I don't think every convicted felon deserves to have the right to own taken away, only the violent who use weapons. If a guy is convicted for something like stealing a car, then pays his debt to society, I think he ought to retain the right to defend himself and/or his family.

mark46 said:

1) Do you even know what a jihad is?

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Do you mean the religious duty that glorifies martyrdom, and is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”.

That jihad? Because that is the one I am referring to - well..... the one they are referring to.

CoreyD said:

That's why I asked, Can I answer based on what you understand, because I wanted to see if you understood what you read in the OP. Evidently you don't.

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We need to qualify what the will is free from, when we assert a free will. Who can understand what it means if it's not qualified?

CoreyD said:

I am wondering how I can make it any clearer. I realize it cannot be made any simpler, so, I'll have to point out what you need to pay attention to.

Starting with John 8:44, with God's heavenly children - the spirit creation, called angels, the Bible says of the one called Devil and Satan... When he lies, he speaks out of his own character. That is... pertaining to self, or of his own
How can that be simplified? Of his own... Out of his own self....

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I understand what a self-will is. That is why I posted this:

Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Notice that there is no term "free" being used in Isaiah 53:6. Isaiah 53:6 is talking about being self-willed. You are using John 8:44 above to describe being self-willed.

Please note that 2 Peter 2:10 is saying that to be self-willed is to walk in servitude to the flesh.

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Self-willed = carnal-willed = the will of the flesh.
John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

CoreyD said:

Perhaps if you link what Jesus said to that. Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual immorality, thefts, false testimonies, slanders.
The heart pertains to the inner self... what a person is on the inside.

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This we can agree on --> the children born of the devil have the same character as their father --> evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual immorality, thefts, false testimonies, slanders.

The children born of the Spirit of God have the same Character as their Father. --> But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;

John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. <-- God is Spirit.

CoreyD said:

The angel that sinned... unlike Jesus, and the faithful angels, rebelled, even though he did not have sin... was not born in sin, but acted on his own - self - what is in him - his heart.
The disciple James uses this term in this way...

James 1:14
Jesus thus makes clear that the angel that became Satan the Devil, acts according to his own will, or desire.

What else can be meant by his own will, other than acting freely?

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The tares like obscurity and darkness because they don't want to be found.
The wheat like clarity and Light because they want to be found.

Therefore, it's wrong to use unqualified terms that obscure rather than clarify.

The devil will use semantics to obscure the truth. For example, below are two opposite meanings of free wills using this dichotomy Free/slave, but only one is truly free and the other is a lie.

(1) A will that is free from righteousness and is therefore a slave to unrighteousness.
(2) A will that is free from unrighteousness and is therefore a slave to righteousness.

CoreyD said:

The Greek term, which you said is an adjective, and not a noun, is hekousios - meaning free will - the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).

This is not talking about someone's will, in the sense of my will, your will - the noun, but as it says willing; unforced; deliberate action; voluntary; acting on one's own accord. Which seals the point that free will refers to something done freely.. without anyone or anything forcing it.

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Jesus said these words below so as to indicate that people will do/act according to the inner character of the soul which implies a pre-disposition. Hence the carnal will/self-will serves the desires of the flesh, and those desires are not voluntary.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You see the above underscored in bold? Now look at this -->
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

CoreyD said:

All intelligent beings have this ability to act freely of their own.
So, going back to angels and men... how can this be made simpler? Having the freedom to act on one's own accord, in harmony with one's own desires.

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People who are blinded by lies do not represent intelligence nor an ability to act freely of their own.

One's own desires are predicated upon one's image of God/god in their heart. The angel that became Satan had a corrupt image of god and so do his children.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

CoreyD said:

I referred to the scriptures which refer to man's free will, repeatedly.
Leviticus 1:3;

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This scripture is referring to a voluntary offering. It is an adverb, not a noun as in a man's will.

CoreyD said:

1 Corinthians 9:16-18

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I see Paul conveying that he does NOT volunteer to preach the Gospel.

He does NOT preach the Gospel willingly. He does it because he has to --> (a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me).

CoreyD said:

Deuteronomy 30:19;

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This is a choice/option to either do these commandments or die. It is the exact opposite of unforced.

CoreyD said:

2 Corinthians 9:7;

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This is exhorting us to be liberal concerning our being charitable. Charity is a fruit of the Holy Spirit of Truth, it is not self-willed.

CoreyD said:

Philemon 1:14

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This scripture is simply saying Paul doesn't want Philemon to feel forced about receiving Onesimus.

CoreyD said:

Deuteronomy 30:19, 20, is a key scripture which very simply makes clear that man has freedom of choice. That is what free will is...

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This is why we need to qualify what the will is free from when we assert free will. Here you're now saying it means we have two options to choose from Life or death which now means it's NOT voluntary --> Do these commandments or be cursed and die.

Below is the Merriam Webster definition for volition. If you will notice #1, the term WILL standing alone without the adjective "FREE" added, already denotes the ability to reason and make choices/decisions.

volition​

noun​

vo·li·tion vō-ˈli-shən
və-

Synonyms of volition
1
: the power of choosing or determining : will

2
: an act of making a choice or decision
also : a choice or decision made


will
2 of 3

noun​

ˈwil
1
: a legal declaration of a person's wishes regarding the disposal of his or her property or estate after death
especially : a written instrument legally executed by which a person makes disposition of his or her estate to take effect after death

2
: desire, wish: such as
a
: disposition, inclination
where there's a will there's a way

b
: appetite, passion
c
: choice, determination

3
: the act, process, or experience of willing : volition

4
a
: mental powers manifested as wishing, choosing, desiring, or intending
b
: a disposition to act according to principles or ends
c
: the collective desire of a group
the will of the people


5
: the power of control over one's own actions or emotions
a man of iron will


6
a
: something desired
especially : a choice or determination of one having authority or power.

CoreyD said:

The freedom to choose to act on one's own accord... voluntarily; willingly; unforced; deliberate... which is what Adam did, in accord with his desires.
Can this be made any simpler?

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I don't know why you would think Adam desired to disobey God. The scriptures actually show that Adam didn't volunteer to eat, he was persuaded by the woman who was deceived --> And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

CoreyD said:

Despite sin, which Adam did not have before making a free choice, man still has this ability, which is why God requires man worship him willingly; unforced; voluntarily; acting on one's own accord.

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No, this above is incorrect. God is Spirit. The True worship of God is drawn out by the object of worship, it's not a choice/decision. When we become fully convinced that God's Spirit is the Light of the soul and the only goodness in our soul that keeps us from becoming abominations, then we will worship Him in Truth.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

CoreyD said:

From conversing with persons on this subject, I find that most do not understand free will, and either philosophize it, confuse it with perfection, or over think it.
It's not complicated at all.

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In this post I'm responding to you've identified 4 different meanings of "free" will:

(1) Being "self"-willed (a carnal will, a noun).
(2) You've identified a "willingness" (an adverb) as proof of a "free" will, when in fact It only requires a will (noun) to have willingness (adverb).
(3) A "voluntary" or "freewill" choice (an adjective).
(4) The presence of a choice/option to either do these commandments or die was claimed as proof of a free will even though it's not voluntary. In fact, the presenting of a choice/option to either do these commandments or die is NOT even a product of man's will, it is a situation where a choice/decision must be made out of necessity.

Guojing said:

U keep talking about Abraham when I am talking about Jacob.

Being Abraham's seed does not imply you are Jacob's seed.

You need to be Jacob's seed to be part of the elect, part of believing Israel.

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The seed of Abraham is Jesus and we derive the spiritual blessings through His indwelling.

DaisyDay said:

The reason many European nations refuse to extradite US citizens back to the US is because we, the US, execute our own citizens. How is this such an outrage when we do it ourselves?

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If you are not able to see the difference between tried in a court of law - found guilty by a jury of your peers and meeting the special circumstances - which is in only 27 of 50 states - and dragging people out of their homes, blindfolding them and blowing their brains out in front of their neighbors. You will most likely have continued difficulty in telling the difference.