Desk trauma said:

Elections have not been held in Gaza for almost twenty years.

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We have seen clearly who the Palestinians support. We have seen plenty of protests continually all over. Elections? Who needs it to know they fully support Hamas.

bling said:

You say: "Jesus did not have the same ability to succumb to sins temptation", so how could Jesus be tempted in every way as we are tempted?
The idea is not to give Jesus certain powers over sin, we cannot have, making it God's fault for our sinning, since God did not provide those powers to us, but show even though Christ could, He did not, just as we could, but did because we lack His Love.
What does it matter where the "knowledge of Good and Evil" came from, since it is being equated in your definition with a sinful nature?
I am saying our knowledge changed with Adam and Eve's eating the fruit, but our "nature" remained the same. "Knowledge", itself is not bad, since we agree Christ had that same knowledge and did not sin. It is wrong to blame our sins on "Knowledge" and call it our nature.

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Having the ability to not sin, does not discount that even though Jesus could not sin. He was still tempted like we are. He was tempted like we are, because His temptation came from satan and in our case more than likely satan and fallen angels.

Why do you think satan is locked up during Jesus earthly rule. So Jesus can rule humanity and only have to rule against mans sinful nature, without satan adding to the problem.


Noticed the words in Italics they are not in the original Greek
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

The Greek reads
Not for we have a high priest not being able to sympathize with the weaknesses of us [one] having been tempted however in all things by the same way without sin

If Jesus had a sin nature or the ability to sin where did this come from. since He was begotten from God and not Adam.

https://faithalone.org/grace-in-foc...christ-makes-the-life-to-come-more-thrilling/

My gosh is that tough! Remembering the family in prayer. And... Our pets are family too!

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

If American citizens approve of federal agents wearing masks, accompanied by the military, and arresting people without a warrant, it would indicate a shift away from democratic practices toward more authoritarian governance.

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Holy smokes, when are you going to acknowledge your whole warrant shtick is just patently false? LE has ALWAYS been able to arrest without a warrant.

If American citizens are attacking and threatening agents and their families it would indicate a shift away from democratic practices toward a more anarchist state.

Thank you everyone for your prayers and kind comments. I try and stay busy and not think about it too much. It's gotten a lot better.

A poem based on Psalms 104, also shows how special all creatures are to our Lord.

All Things Bright and Beautiful
by Cecil Frances Alexander

All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

Each little flower that opens,
Each little bird that sings,
He made their glowing colors,
He made their tiny wings.

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.

The purple headed mountain,
The river running by,
The sunset and the morning,
That brightens up the sky;−

The cold wind in the winter,
The pleasant summer sun,
The ripe fruits in the garden,−
He made them every one.

The tall trees in the greenwood,
The meadows where we play,
The rushes by the water,
We gather every day;−

He gave us eyes to see them,
And lips that we might tell
How great is God Almighty,
Who hath made all things well.

Brightfame52 said:

Okay then start at the OP and then from there all of my other explanations

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I am asking for your take on man's objective while on earth?

For all the leftist rhetoric and hand wringing over immigration enforcement we are getting a lot of criminals.

Largest ever ICE operation results in nearly 1,500 illegals arrested in blue state

Sources at ICE told Fox News that 790 of those arrested had criminal convictions or charges and 277 had final removal or deportation orders. The sources said that all the targeted criminals were roaming the streets of Massachusetts cities freely before being apprehended.

Exclusive: ICE Agents Arrest 11 Illegal Alien Sex Offenders in Minneapolis

ICE officials said 70 percent of the agency’s arrests are criminal illegal aliens with convictions or pending charges against them at the time they are arrested. Officials noted that many illegal aliens classified as “non-criminals” may not have rap sheets in the United States, but they often do in their home countries.

ICE Arrests 11 Iranian Nationals Illegally in the U.S. Over the Weekend | Homeland Security


Is everyone being arrested a terrible criminal? No, but they are all criminals.

A New Dawn said:

So you have no evidence to suggest to you that doctors don’t, or shouldn't, take issues that might result in legal issues for them, into consideration when addressing care concerns for their patient?

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I never said that.

A New Dawn said:

That is patently ridiculous.

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Your trying to put words in my mouth is ridiculous.

A New Dawn said:

I have cared for a multitude of patients with a multitude of legal/ethical issues where treatment was delayed till the lawyers could either go to court or resolve things privately with the family before treatment progressed. You are just naive or too biased to think that something like this doesn’t fall into that category.

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I'm still waiting for an example that was a result of protesters. You keep trying to change the subject.

Desk trauma said:

Because once in power Hamas didn’t allow any more to take place. Bit inaccurate to call those in power elected representatives when elections haven’t happened in 20 years.

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Especially when you consider that well over half of the current voting-age population of Gaza was either too young to have voted in that election or not even born yet.

Clare73 said:

God doesn't fail at anything. . .all serves his purpose (Ro 9:22-23, 11:32).

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Good point. So the Reformers reformed nothing, doctrinally.

Clare73 said:

You've got it backwards. . .

If your faith is the gift of God (Ph 1:29, 2Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3), then you will walk as a child of God, for his arm is not too short,
if you do not walk as a child of God, then your faith is counterfeit and does not save (Mt 7:22-23).
By their fruits, you shall know the saved from the unsaved.

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As I've maintained over and over again: FAITH IS A GIFT- but also a choice- to accept and act upon that gift, and to continue to do so. Your misunderstanding is in your belief that God produces Christian automatons, completely regenerated, and saved, all at once even before they can muster, with the help of grace, the real first step- of faith.

RDKirk said:

My daughter just a few weeks ago went through a scary experience here in Texas of an emergency room being hesitant to treat her for an incident severely bleeding uterine polyps because they were afraid it was a miscarriage.

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I’m sorry to hear that. I hope she is doing ok now.

chevyontheriver said:

Eusebius the historian listed succession of bishops for multiple patriarchates. It's not just the Roman diocese.

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Indeed, also for multiple regional dioceses with the Western church. And these lines have been traced since then.

There was an obscure group of Old Catholics who set out to obtain as many lines of succession as possible, usually from Episcopi Vagantes who had been sacked by their denomination for going off the reservation in one way or another. I think they were called “the Organization for Catholic Reunification” or something of that nature. Of course this depended on a purely Augustinian concept of succession rather than that of St. Cyprian of Carthage, who argued in the second century that a lack of orthodoxy invalidated Apostolic succession.

Now with regards to Donatism, St. Augustine was not wrong to insist on ex opere operanto, since the Donatists went too far in insisting only a righteous priest could confect the sacraments, and that sacramental efficacy was connected to the righteousness of the clergy; St. Augustine’s statements on apostolic succession need not be read in opposition to those of St. Cyprian but rather should be seen as responses to the excesses of Donatism, in that the problem with Donatism is the lack of inherent righteousness among the human race in general, so that it is only through God that we can be righteous, but we can also fall away, but everyone has enough skeletons in their closet that anyone boasting of being anything other than the chief of sinners, which Eastern Orthodox and other Byzantine Rite priests confess to (usually together with the congregation) during every Divine Liturgy, in the confiteor ante communionem, is difficult to regard with credulity, at least from an Eastern perspective.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have mercy on me, a Sinner.

Mark overate Napoli tacos

LTBH

BNR32FAN said:

Well the whole premise of this particular thread is refraining from excessive criticism of other denominations. So in this particular thread I would refrain from such criticism whereas in other threads I would feel more inclined to engage more freely in discussions without refraining. Anybody who knows me here in CF knows I have absolutely no problems speaking my mind.

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I’ve never known you to engage in excessive criticism. The key word here is excessive.

I would define excessive criticism as criticism of a denomination that is continual, incessant, repeats arguments previously refuted, ignores contrary evidence, relies upon logical fallacies or historical inaccuracies, depends on a false dichotomy such as Protestant vs. Catholic*, to the extent that harm is caused as a result.

*Or indeed Eastern vs. Western; insofar as I am guilty of this I apologize, for there is indeed a blurry line which we find in places like Cyprus or Corinth or Venice, where the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholics and Catholics co-existed, and there are also degrees of Easternness, in that the Oriental Orthodoxy of the Coptic Church and the Ethiopian church and the Eastern Orthodoxy of Georgia and Serbia represent particular extremes, while that of the Armenians and Syrians or of the Antiochians of America and Carpatho-Rusyns reflect Western influences, and there is also Western Rite Orthodoxy, which is opposed by the Ecumenical Patriarchate (despite His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew having under his omophorion one of the most Western influenced churches in the form of the Church of Finland), but supported, correctly, by St. John Maximovitch and by the Antiochian and ROCOR jurisdictions.

Of course, when I’ve stressed the difference between Eastern vs. Western I have meant primarily the use of some church fathers more than others, so relying on St. Cyprian of Carthage and St. John Cassian as guides for an understanding of original sin and apostolic succession, for instance, and pursuing the Patristic model embraced by the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East, and to a large extent by most of the Eastern Catholics, but also, to be fair, by many Anglicans (of course there are connections between Anglicanism and Methodism and Eastern Orthodoxy and other Eastern churches, and there also exists a curious indirect connection between traditional confessional Lutheranism and Oriental Orthodoxy).

Indeed the similarity of belief between the Continuing Anglo Catholics in the US and the Orthodox makes me hopeful that the much-desired admission of the Episcopal Church to communion with the Russian Orthodox Church, which was thwarted by the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and later by liberal theology taking root in much of the Episcopal Church, with some exceptions and in a paradoxical manner and with the remarkable survival of one traditionalist seminary that caters to both Episcopalians and other Anglicans, Nashotah House, which also used to provide education on the Bible to Orthodox seminarians at St. Vladimir’s and other Orthodox seminaries before they were able to afford an expanded faculty that addressed these subjects, could be realized in the form of the admission of a Continuing Anglican Church to the Orthodox Communion (in the same manner as some Continuing Anglican groups became part of Anglican Ordinariates in the RCC).

I think it comes back to the idea that morality is about the best way to behave morally in any given situation. That means lying may be the wrong in one situation but the right thing in another.

I don't think moral truths (objective morality) are absolute because we can reason out each situation and come to a moral truth just for that situation only. The same for each and every situation determined separately according to its context. But against a set of moral truths that are grounded beyond human ideas and rationalisations or justifications.

We know lying is wrong according to Gods laws. But Christ updated the law in that it was the state of our heart and intentions that were what led to sin and what was sin. I don't think a heart and intention that is wanting to preserve Gods ultimate law of upholding and protecting human life from unjustified killing is sinful.

The protection of life is also seen as the top moral good in secular society. If your lies managed to save everyone from a crazy gunman you would be a hero. This is because God put in everyones heart His laws and 'do unto others' is the 2nd greatest commandment and all commandements are ultimately about upholding and protecting life.

rjs330 said:

Around 2014-2915 ICE arrested a lot of illegals.

ICE Arrests 2,000 'Worst Of The Worst Criminals'

The latest sweep of fugitive immigrants was the fifth major operation by U.S. authorities since 2011.

www.ibtimes.com

They conducted raids at businesses. They arrested people who were violent criminals, gang members and over half arrested were simply here illegally. The photo in the paper sh I we'd them without masks. There were not riots, there were no attacks on tge agents. There was no one shooting at them. Their families were not threatened.

In just January 2025 ICE conducted raids. The vast majority of agents weren't wearing masks and weren't threatened, attacked neither were their families. Here is an article showing a number of photos of of them.

ICE arrests over 20 during NYC raids, including suspected gang leader: Details

Now fast forward. ICE agents have been attacked, threatened, assaulted, and their families have also been threatened.

Todd Lyons, the acting Director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), clarified on Monday that ICE agents and officers routinely wear face due to the recently announced increase in threats to federal immigration officials, including to their spouses and family members.

ICE Director Confirms Agents Now Wearing Masks amid 400 Percent Increase in Threats - Tennessee Star

So now you know. If the anarchists, leftists and illegals would have left them and their families alone like they used to, masks would not be needed.

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If American citizens approve of federal agents wearing masks, accompanied by the military, and arresting people without a warrant, it would indicate a shift away from democratic practices toward more authoritarian governance.

fhansen said:

No, you're just re-covering the same old ground that's already been trod. For Scriptural support from me go back and do yer due diligence, reading posts #13, 17, 53, 66, 65, 68, 95, 180, 194, 197, 199, 201. There, I've already done part of it for you.

Go for it. But it doesn't sound like you've read a great deal of the history for yourself TBH. Anyway, God didn't fail at having His revelation correctly received, preserved, and proclaimed for 1500 years until the Reformers came along.

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God doesn't fail at anything. . .all serves his purpose (Ro 9:22-23, 11:32).

fhansen said:

If that faith has resulted in your walikng as a child of God should-and you persevere in that, then you'll be saved. That's the purpose of faith. That's why we must believe. Faith is the beginning, the foundation, not the end.

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You've got it backwards. . .

If your faith is the gift of God (Ph 1:29, 2Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3), then you will walk as a child of God, for his arm is not too short,
if you do not walk as a child of God, then your faith is counterfeit and does not save (Mt 7:22-23).
By their fruits, you shall know saving faith from counterfeit faith.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

Palestinians knew Hamas is a terrorist reputation but still elected them; what outcome did they expect?

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Hamas only received 44.45% of the vote in 2006, but it did give them a majority 74 seats in the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council at that time.

Hamas' control of Gaza came by force, not the will of the people.

Hamas gunmen seized military control of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, executing Fatah rivals and provoking the collapse of their power-sharing Palestinian Authority government.

As Fatah’s last security command centers fell after four days of fighting, Hamas military men in black masks moved unchallenged across Gaza City, hunting down foes, blowing up homes and dragging the body of a top Fatah militant through the streets.

Firing mortars, grenade launchers and automatic weapons, Hamas fighters captured the Gaza City headquarters of the Preventive Security, Intelligence and National Security agencies Thursday afternoon, and executed some of their captives. The Presidential Guard compound fell late in the evening. All were controlled by Fatah.

Earlier in the day, Hamas overran the main Fatah compound in the southern city of Rafah, giving it full control of the border with Egypt, a source of the smuggled weapons that have expanded the movement’s arsenal in recent months.

Hamas fighters overran the headquarters amid mortar rounds and gunfire. They raised green Hamas flags over the shattered two-story compound, kneeled to the ground in prayer and marched handcuffed Fatah gunmen into the streets, some shirtless or in their underwear.

Hamas wins the battle for Gaza control

With his Fatah forces driven from the strip, Abbas dissolves the Cabinet but the Islamist premier vows to stay.

www.latimes.com

bling said:

It is not that hard to explain.

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Okay then start at the OP and then from there all of my other explanations

Gnarwhal said:

Whether that's accurate or not, there are things that the Church has explicitly co-opted and has acknowledged their pagan roots but then also how those things have been transformed for Christian use. Informed Christians are usually aware that Christmas trees were originally use for pagan celebrations of Saturnalia, but we understand now their purpose in the celebration of Advent and Christmas.

Something like centering prayer, perhaps because it's a bit newer to western civilization, doesn't have that same pedigree. The Church already has an abundance of prayer practices that are hers, built on the foundation of Christianity and reflecting the nature and purpose of prayer within the faith. There's really no need to co-opt another religions prayer practices and the Church hasn't formally done so - which would indicate that it's ironed the Buddhism out of centering prayer and made sure only Catholic concepts remain. Better to stick with practices that are known commodities in the Church, like the aforementioned Lectio Divina.

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Centering Prayer was originally called Quiet Prayer, or Prayer of Quiet. It is in the 1917 version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church;

The name was changed after Fr Keating and Fr Pennington gave a retreat to religious. The text of
"The Living Flame of Love" by St John of the Cross was used. In the text the word, "center," was often
used and the discussions around it at the retreat spoke of "centering prayer." As a result, the term, Quiet
Prayer, started to be called, "Centering Prayer."

St Teresa of Avila wrote of "interior prayer" often and as a Discalced Carmelite myself, it was obvious
to me that "centering prayer," and "interior prayer," were the same thing. The OCD spiritual assistant
to my OCDS croup, confirmed it when I asked him about "centering prayer."

"Into The Silent Land," by Fr Martin Laird is a good read on "contemplative prayer."

David Lamb said:

I think the so-called "Five Solas" of the Reformation have it right, that salvation is:

sola scriptura (by Scripture alone), solus Christus (in Christ alone), sola fide (through faith alone), sola gratia (by grace alone), and soli Deo gloria (to the glory of God alone).

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The problem is of course twofold: the five Solas are innovative, lacking any Patristic backing, whether Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or of the Church of the East (sometimes erroneously called the Nestorians; while it is true they venerate Nestorius and were controlled by Nestorian bishops for a time, during the Catholicosate of Mar Babai the Great they embraced a Christology that was Chalcedonian-compatibile), and of those, the Oriental Orthodox and the Church of the East ceased to be in regular relations with the Roman church in the fifth century, due to Nestorius and the machinations of crypto-Nestorians such as Ibas against Pope Dioscorus of Alexandria, so one cannot declare them to be under Roman influence in rejecting these Solas (an argument I would not expect to see from a pious, learned and gentlemanly Baptist cleric such as yourself, but which I have encountered from Adventists).

Secondly, they have semantic problems in terms of reconciliation with certain portions of Scripture, such as the Epistle of St. James, and admittedly, solutions do exist for this, for example, the Calvinist idea that those who do not do good works are reprobates who lack a living faith.

However it seems to me that a Patristic model, which need not be non-monergistic* would be preferrable, and one could avoid all of the problems caused by the use of the word “Sola” by the use of the word “Prima.”

But there is also a difference between the Lutheran concept of Sola Scriptura, which permits the use of sacred tradition, for example, and the Solo Scriptura or Nuda Scriptura approach we see embraced by some Protestants (and ostensibly by some Adventists, although I would argue their absolutist interpretation of Sola Scriptura is compromised by their belief that the prophecies of Ellen G. White are divinely inspired and represent the only obvious interpretation of the New Testament).

*for there was monergism in parts of the early church even after it was rejected by the Fifth Ecumenical Council among Chalcedonian churches in the fifth century (for example, the Church of the East for several centuries believed in Apokatastasis; this view, as expressed by St. Isaac the Syrian and Mar Solomon of Basra in the Book of the Bee, which echoes the views of Origen and St. Gregory of Nyssa, which it has since moved beyond, was a more definitive theological distinctive for the Church of the East during that era than Nestorianism, and also perhaps explains why the Church of the East was suddenly able to get along so well with the Syriac Orthodox Church, which had been diametrically opposed to it from a Christological perspective, and one might indeed argue - still is.

Hentenza said:

not really. You stated that it was an isolated verse even though it is more than one verse stated in context and that YOUR interpretation in light of scripture including Paul’s own writings (which you dont cite) and then you go into your own rant with no additional proof. Even if it is one passage in scripture you still have to interpret it based on scripture. You did not do that.

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No, you're just re-covering the same old ground that's already been trod. For Scriptural support from me go back and do yer due diligence, reading posts #13, 17, 53, 66, 65, 68, 95, 180, 194, 197, 199, 201. There, I've already done part of it for you.

Hentenza said:

You are not interested in what scripture actually states but what the wrong teachings of the “ancient: churches actually teach. If you want to discuss the history I’ll be happy to.

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Go for it. But it doesn't sound like you've read a great deal of the history for yourself TBH. Anyway, God didn't fail at having His revelation correctly received, preserved, and proclaimed for 1500 years until the Reformers came along.

Hentenza said:

I walk in it but from salvation but FOR salvation. It’s called sanctification. I will see him in the next life because I believe in the Lord Jesus.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

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If that faith has resulted in your walikng as a child of God should-and you persevere in that, then you'll be saved. That's the purpose of faith. That's why we must believe. Faith is the beginning, the foundation, not the end, the beginning of a relationship, a communion that man was made for and that is intended to blossom into eternal life, including the fruits that lead to it.