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The Path to Salvation

Not the proof I was asking for. This is just the opinion of Ignatius about the role of bishops.

I was clearly asking you where is the proof that the RCC has the complete oral teaching of Christ/apostles.

I am losing interest/patience in waiting for your answers. You take 14 weeks pause and then come with non-answers. So I am logging out of this thread.
I will answer this for whoever is still reading this thread. I have many other things going on in my life. I can't read these threads as often as I would like to.

Jesus Christ founded his church upon the foundation of the prophets and the apostles with himself as the capstone (Ephesians 2:19-21). Jesus Christ authorized his apostles, as his personally appointed leaders of his church, to preach/teach his gospel. (Matthew 28:19-20) He promised that he would send his Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth and that he would be with them always. (John 16:12-14) He also said that his church on earth would prevail until he returned bodily to earth at the end of time. (Matthew 16:17-19, 2 Timothy 4:8) His church is hierarchal. Acts 1:24-26, 2 Timothy 2:2, 1 Timothy 3:1-5

Jesus also said to beware of the wolves (evil bishops, priests, and deacons) in sheep's clothing who will work within his church like Judases to destroy it. (Acts 20:28-30) There are many of these wicked men in his church right now, and only prayer and fasting will remove them.
Acts 14:23


In about the 300s-400s AD, Catholic Church leaders compiled their "Bible" from their early leaders' writings to supplement their oral teachings. Jesus did not command any of them to write a Bible. He commanded them to preach/teach his gospel to his disciples in person.
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Do you agree with the President on border enforcement and illegal aliens?

That's what thieves and those that support thievery say.
It is enshrined in the laws. If the law supports thievery, then thieves flourish.
If one can prove ownership, then if someone refuses to leave they are nothing g more than a thief and a felon.
Wait, you aren't one of those who require an actual conviction before labeling? In any case, not all, by a long shot, thefts arise to being felonious.
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Would Trump defend Australia if we were attacked? We HAD a big purchase deal worked out... but....

You're right - how could I squander these amazing opportunities for Australia! o_O;):D

PS: there's a biodiesel sub that runs a catalytic converter that converts the biodiesel to hydrogen to propel their electric engine quietly for about a month. So that's better than diesel - and yet still has the thermal invisibility of a battery engine. This is new to me - I once was pro-nuclear subs for Australia - but didn't realise about the tactical disadvantages. Sure - nukes have strategic advantages if you're running a global empire. Australia isn't - and I think now that Trumpism has completely unhinged America from the reliable trustworthy partner we've had for the last 75 years - Australia should not even LOOK like it might side with America in this global-empire business.
In other words - biodiesel home-built subs all the way.
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How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

I also appreciate your sincerity in studying scripture. Confession to a priest is taught in scripture. We read in the gospel that after the resurrection and before His ascension, Christ breathed on the Apostles and gave them the power to forgive and retain sins. Also, every Christian is not given apostolic authority as the word of God says, He gave some Apostles…

So if an Apostle has the authority to forgive sins, and I know that I am not an apostle, I go to one that has Apostolic authority
But nowhere do read that the apostles were priests, or that each local church should have a priest.
Prayers for the dead are not taught in the Bible that you read because Martin Luther removed the books that speak of it. We also have evidence of early Christian practice of praying for the dead
But the Old Testament that the Jews used did not include the apocryphal books like Wisdom, 1 & 2 Esdras, etc. Most of the 39 books of the OT are quoted or referred to in the New Testament, but not the pocryphal books.
What or who gave Luther the authority to do what he did? If we rely on Luther’s authority, then do we really have and submit to the scriptures?

All authority must come from legitimate sources, it cannot be claimed for oneself. The Anglicans lost their apostolic authority when they followed Henry VIII in rebellion against the Church and allowed Henry to proclaim himself head of the church. I can understand a distaste for that. Those that remain outside apostolic authority have none. We do have an Anglican rite in the Catholic Church whose priests have submitted to the Pope and have regained their apostolic authority.

God loves all of His children and people of all nations tribes and tongues come to worship Him
Thanks again for a thoughtful and thought-provoking post.
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How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

Thank you for your courteous reply.

That was the very point I was making. The Bereans did not go to some ecclesiastical authority to check the truth of the preaching; they read the bible. As for starting a local church, we are not told that they did so, but once they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, they would have wanted to join a local company of Christians. If there wasn't already such a church in Berea, they would have met together to worship God, and formed a local church there.

I have not ever been a Roman Catholic, but I was brought up in what became a very "high" Anglican church, and believed at that time in things like confession to a "priest", praying for the dead, praying to Christians who had died, bowing my head every time I mentioned the name "Jesus," and so on. When I began to understand that such things are not taught in the bible, I joined a church which taught bible truths.

Thanks again for your considerate post. It is good that we can discuss, and sometimes disagree, without becoming unpleasant or rude to one another.
I also appreciate your sincerity in studying scripture. Confession to a priest is taught in scripture. We read in the gospel that after the resurrection and before His ascension, Christ breathed on the Apostles and gave them the power to forgive and retain sins. Also, every Christian is not given apostolic authority as the word of God says, He gave some Apostles…

So if an Apostle has the authority to forgive sins, and I know that I am not an apostle, I go to one that has Apostolic authority

Prayers for the dead are not taught in the Bible that you read because Martin Luther removed the books that speak of it. We also have evidence of early Christian practice of praying for the dead

What or who gave Luther the authority to do what he did? If we rely on Luther’s authority, then do we really have and submit to the scriptures?

All authority must come from legitimate sources, it cannot be claimed for oneself. The Anglicans lost their apostolic authority when they followed Henry VIII in rebellion against the Church and allowed Henry to proclaim himself head of the church. I can understand a distaste for that. Those that remain outside apostolic authority have none. We do have an Anglican rite in the Catholic Church whose priests have submitted to the Pope and have regained their apostolic authority.

God loves all of His children and people of all nations tribes and tongues come to worship Him
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Normandt' meditations

168. Life and faith in Jesus





May we recognize that Jesus is Lord and saves us from evil and sin.

Jesus sends his disciples to learn at the mission school. He sends us there too. He tells us, “Go and learn the meaning of the words, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”



It’s reassuring. We are all called to him. Here and now, he asks us to be merciful. It’s difficult for us to become “righteous”, but it’s to become righteous that we are called to be. We are sinners and yet we are asked to offer to others what God offers us.



God’s justice is what he transmits to us through Love; joy, peace, mercy, hope, etc. Let’s offer them too. In this way, we will always be searching, standing, walking.



The school of life and faith in Jesus is just beginning. Let’s remain in the mission and stay awake to seek the Doctor. Here we’re on the road to follow Jesus and we want to enter salvation, freely.



The new American Bible, 2011-2014

Book: Watch with faith, Normand Thomas
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What is Church teaching on yoga and reiki?

So you think we should never relax? I don't get that point of view. What about when we sleep? We are totally unguarded then.

If that is true then we should follow the advice of St John of the Cross:
"And finally all the worst deceptions which are caused by the devil, and the evils that he brings to the soul, enter by way of knowledge and reflections of the memory, Thus if the memory enter into darkness with respect to them all, and be annihilated in its oblivion to them, it shuts the door altogether upon this evil which proceeds from the devil, and frees itself from all these things, which is a great blessing. For the devil has no power over the soul unless it be through the operations of its faculties, principally by means of knowledge, whereupon depend almost all the other operations of the other faculties. Wherefore, if the memory be annihilated with respect to them, the devil can do naught; for he finds no foothold, and without a foothold he is powerless.

If that is a concern there are very many postures and gestures we share with Hinduism.
View attachment 367401
The devil is an immitator. So what if we share postures with Hinduism? Should we study Hinduism to imitate more of their postures and worship of their false gods?

We are to relax and rest in the peace of Christ

It serves no purpose for a Christian to learn Hinduism in order to bring its practices to Christianity. It is a distraction and takes our eyes off of Christ our redeemer. We have so little time in the world, it makes no sense to study or imitate the worship of false gods, unless we are called to understand them and bring the love of Christ to them.
I don’t need my Christian friends teaching me about Hinduism. Your quote from John of the Cross is interesting because it reveals the danger of yoga. If we do not practice idolatry, then the devil has no power over us, but if we imitate the motions of idolatry and try to claim it is not wrong, then the devil can use the memories of our actions against us
Claiming to do yoga without idolatry is the same as claiming to watch porn without lust. It serves no godly purpose
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Unless We Abide in Christ

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
“If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.” (John 15:1-11 ESV)

This is Jesus Christ speaking to his 11 disciples, for by this time Judas Iscariot had already departed to betray Jesus to the authorities. And Jesus was speaking during the time period when the Jews were still under the Old Covenant, for Jesus had not yet died and had not been resurrected and had not yet returned to the Father. And Jesus, who was also a Jew, but who was God, the second person of our triune God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – spoke of himself as the true vine with God the Father being the vinedresser.

Okay, so I am going to introduce a thought here that I had not thought of before in reading this passage of Scripture, and this is something that I will have to look into more thoroughly, but this is what struck me this time in reading about Jesus being the vine and the Father being the vinedresser. The first Scripture that came to mind is 1 Corinthians 10:4 where it says that the Israelites, in the wilderness in the time of Moses, drank from the spiritual Rock that followed (or accompanied) them, and the Rock was Christ.

Now, if you consider that the Scriptures teach that Jesus always existed with God and that he is God (as noted above), and that he is our creator God (see John 1:1-36), then Jesus, the Christ, was with the Israelites always, and he was the spiritual rock that they drank from, even back then. And this is not meaning physical water that they drank, but that they drew their livelihood, their existence, and their spiritual life and sustenance from him who is our rock, our fortress, our tower of strength.

And then I thought of Romans 11 where it also speaks of branches which were broken off from the root, which were the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ (the root), and how we Gentiles by physical birth were grafted into the root by faith in Jesus Christ. For it is Jesus Christ that we come into by faith and we become part of him. He is our root. He is our vine. He alone is our spiritual rock from which we drink (partake). He alone is the one in whom we abide and no other so only he can be that root we were grafted into.

So, the point here is that Jesus Christ was always the root. He was always the rock of our salvation from whom the Israelites who trusted in God had their life and their salvation. He was always the vine. And all who believe in him with God-persuaded faith are his branches. But once he died and was resurrected from the dead, which is when God’s people entered into a new covenant with God/Christ, then for all those who did not believe in him, they were cut off from the vine, like this talks about in John, chapter 15.

If you ever worked a puzzle before, or if you ever tried to solve a mystery, you may have gone through a process of logic and reason and deduction such as, if A=B and if C=B then there must be a connection between A and C. And I may not be explaining this well, but it has to do with associations and with connecting the dots. Like if by faith in Jesus Christ we are now joined with Christ, and he is our root/vine, then the root we were grafted into, which some Jews got cut out of, is Christ. For we are in Christ.

And this fits with this passage in John 15 where it speaks of branches being cut off from the vine due to unbelief (disobedience), which was evident by the fact that they did not bear spiritual fruit for the kingdom of God. There was no spiritual outgrowth or results in their lives that gave evidence to them being true branches. But they were once the Lord’s branches. They were once part of that root/vine, but Jesus had to cut them out because they did not believe in him, which is evidenced by the lack of fruit of obedience.

So, if we want to be “in Christ,” and to be his true branches, we must walk in the faith that we profess. We must, as his branches, leave our lives of sin behind us and now walk in obedience to his commands (New Covenant) in holy living, living separate (unlike, different) from the world because we are being conformed to the likeness of character of Jesus Christ. And we must continue in these walks of faith steadfast until the very end if we want to have salvation from sin and eternal life with God.

For, just like Jesus Christ/God cut out of him the natural branches who did not believe in Jesus Christ (once Jesus had given his life for us on that cross to save us from our sins) he will cut us out, too, if we don’t remain in him, and if we do not bear the kind of spiritual fruit that he requires of us, and if we do not continue in his grace. And his grace instructs us to renounce (say “NO!” to) ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives (see Romans 11:19-24; Titus 2:11-14).

[Matt 7:21-23; Matt 24:9-14; Lu 9:23-26; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14,24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 15:1-2; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Heb 9:28; 1 Pet 1:5; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-17; 1 Pet 2:24; Tit 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6,24-25; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 3:6,14-15; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

My Sheep

Based off John 10:1-30 NIV
An Original Work / June 24, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love


My sheep hear me. They know me.
They listen to my voice and obey.
I call them and lead them.
They know my voice, so they follow me.
They will never follow strangers.
They will run away from them.
The voice of a stranger they know not;
They do not follow him.

So, I tell you the truth that
I am the gate, so you enter in.
Whoever does enter
Will find forgiveness and will be saved.
Nonetheless whoever enters
Not by the gate; other way,
He is the thief and a robber.
Listen not, the sheep to him.

Oh, I am the Good Shepherd,
Who laid his own life down for the sheep.
I know them. They know me.
They will live with me eternally.
The thief only comes to steal and
Kill and to destroy the church.
I have come to give you life that
You may have it to the full…

They know my voice, so they follow me.

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Unless We Abide in Christ
Originally written and posted on December 7, 2023
Reposted on December 9, 2024 and July 14, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Questions regarding The Sudden Death of Thomas Merton

There's an article here on what I presume is a CIA site. One of his "long term confidants" thought it was possible a lone CIA agent may have tipped the fan into the bath tub.


There wasn't much of an investigation so I suppose we won't know the definitive answer this side of glory.

I've got a couple of his books and I turn to them now and gain for a bit of spiritual insight. To me his main area of concern seemed to be how to make the religious life relevant to the modern world viz. "Contemplation in a World of Action".
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OUTDATED 1970’S APOLOGETICS AGAINST KNEELING TO RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION

I'm not very interested in all the kerfuffle about standing, kneeling at the altar, in the hand or on the tongue etc as the "correct" way to receive communion. It is a case of making a mountain out of a molehill in my opinion.

At the very first communion when Christ broke the bread and distributed the cup, the disciples were reclining at table in typical Jewish meal fashion.

Should we bring that back?

And I'll bet they received it in the hand.
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Why believing in a literal Adam and Eve matters

When I was a YEC I don't think I was able to really conceive of how the two could come together. Years later, and now looking at things; it's really not problematic at all. There are still complications that I don't pretend don't exist. But on this specific matter, it's hardly difficult to conceive of the possibility that at some point there is a clear distinction between the "mere animal" and the "rational creature". When this happened, exactly when--we might say--Adam and Eve lived is probably not the sort of thing we're going to know. But this isn't particularly difficult: from a purely evolutionary perspective at some point hominids became not only clever apes, but creatures capable of deep, complex self-reflective thought, creatures of reason, moral agency and moral reflection. That capacity for moral thinking, for deep complex self-reflection and contemplating one's own existence in the world is not something my dog has, it's not something even our weird cousins the chimpanzees have (who are, let's not pretend otherwise, incredibly clever and still incredibly intelligent).

I don't just have the capacity to do something wrong--I can recognize that what I did was, indeed, wrong. That my actions introduce something deeply problematic to the world--my actions actually wound, and I know they do--and I do them anyway.

There's clearly something very different about me--and all of us human beings--from all other animals. And I'm not convinced that science and a purely naturalistic methodology is capable of truly plumbing the depths of that. I am very clearly more than just the sum of my parts, I'm more than just an assemblage of atoms, more than bio-chemical machinery, I'm more than just the grey-matter between my ears, more than just a series of input-output responses to sensation and external stimuli. I have a soul. I'm me, I am myself. And I am a me that meets you, and you are you--you are yourself, another person. Personhood extends beyond material demonstration--but arises from something much deeper. And, as a Christian, I think the very clear answer, given to us by divine revelation, is that our own personhood is a gift from our Creator. He made us in His image.

So there was an Adam and an Eve, and we're all descended from them. And that doesn't negate the reality that, as we observe the fossil record, as we observe and study genetics and molecular biology, we see that all living things on this planet share common descent, that human beings share a very real genetic and biological common ancestor with chimpanzees, with all the other great apes, and that we see all manner of now extinct hominids who left behind their remains, fossils and even tools.

How all this works out to the jot and tiddle is, probably nothing we're going to figure out. But what we receive by Divine Revelation; and what we receive by natural disclosure are not two contradictory stories; they are both true stories. The Good Creator God, if we truly believe He is the Good Creator God, did not create a false universe, a lying universe, but a good and truthful universe. So if something is, indeed, objectively true about the universe in what the universe "tells" us through its own self-existent reality (e.g. I see a mountain, there really is a mountain, I see a river, there really is a river, etc) then it's true. To suggest otherwise indicates a willingness to believe the old Gnostic lie; that the material world is at best an illusion created by a false sub-god or at worst an evil prison created by an arrogant tyrant evil false god. But the Christian Confession is straight to the point:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, of all things seen and unseen.

-CryptoLutheran
This is very well written.
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Does the Bible command Christians to support the State of Israel?

During the Great Tribulation, supporting Israel will be a requirement for unbelieving gentiles to enter the kingdom (Matthew 25:31-46)

But now, no, because Israel has fallen, we have salvation direct and purely from grace (Romans 11:11)
The Kingdom was stripped from them and given to the Church, the only "Holy Nation". The "requirement" to enter the Kingdom is the same for all. Jesus.
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The Holy Peoples and the Treaty

I have no argument with Pauls statement in 1 Thess 4:14.
I just point out that he does not say 'all' Christians will be resurrected then. And the proof they won't be is in Revelation 20:4-5
The resurrection/rapture event of 1Thessalonians4:14-18 will be before the great tribulation begins. Thus, I agree that them resurrected in Revelation 20:4, the martyred great tribulation saints, will not be resurrected until after Jesus returns.
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The Holy Peoples and the Treaty

keras, the dead in Christ are Christians who have died. For them to rise, they will have to be resurrected.
I have no argument with Pauls statement in 1 Thess 4:14.
I just point out that he does not say 'all' Christians will be resurrected then. And the proof they won't be is in Revelation 20:4-5

The GT martyrs are special; they defied the 'beast', didn't take his mark and refused to worship his image. Their Promise is to be brought back to life when Jesus Returns. But not yet to immortality, as they and everyone else must stand before God on the Great White Throne, after the Millennium.
The two Witnesses: Rev 11:3-12, are included with them.
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What's the use of faith alone?

As the only sort of "works" written against in the bible, are the works of the Law; "works" is largely a moot point.
Are you sure of that? Self-styled works are not written against in the Bible? Works done apart from Christ's virtue aren't spoken against in the Bible?
Much is required of converts to get on the road to glory.

Yeah.
Their POVs on works are entirely different.
Paul, viewing it from the anti-"works of the Law for salvation" perspective, while James is looking at it from the perspective of "labors" being the fruit of the Spirit.
But I agree with you. True operation of Faith requires a demonstration of Works. Otherwise, it is Faith In Name Only.

Cain did what he thought were "good works" in making an offering to God, and it wasn't accepted. It wasn't the works of the Law.

In the Christian era mankind is busy trying to do good works as well--not works of the Law. And God will not accept those works on behalf of Salvation unless they are an expression of faith in Christ for Salvation.

However, even works of the Law were accepted by God in its own time, even if Salvation had not yet been worked. The faith that existed along with the works of the Law were an expression of Faith that leads to Salvation, not in and of itself, but only on connection with Christ who has endowed us with the ability to participate in his good virtue.

So though I agree that Paul spoke against the works of the Law as a substitute for Faith, he did not denigrate faith that had operated under the Law. And he certainly did not uphold good works in the NT era that do not operate together with Faith. I should think you agree?
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Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

-
This verse is addressing the earth (the land) water is not included in this.
As my belief during Jesus 1000 year rule on earth when satan is locked up. The earth will again be a single circular piece of land.
i) That doesn't answer my question.
ii) where in Scripture does it say that the earth won't be a circular piece of land until Satan is locked up?
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