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Apple Sky · Jul 19, 2025

Strong in Him said:
Any thing not to be proved wrong.

Nonsense -If there is or isn't a 24 hour sun the earth is still level as that's the way God created it.

Pommer · Jul 19, 2025

Careyap87 said:
A lot better than Joe Biden who nearly destroyed our country.

I must have been asleep, when did this (nearly) happen?

ViaCrucis · Jul 19, 2025

Clare73 said:
Church and state are separate in this country. . .the state is not governed by any church.

I'm sorry, that's a horse manure of a response. This has nothing to do with the wall of separation, which frankly I'm getting tired of being a convenient excuse for why Christians shouldn't expect their government to do what is right in respect to the poor and needy. That wall seems to be pretty thin when it comes to having the 10 Commandments in classrooms or on government buildings, but suddenly when there are working single mothers trying to feed her kids, or when there is a serious problem of homelessness in our communities, that wall goes up and gets thick real fast.

This kind of blatant hypocrisy, double-talk, and imitating Pontius Pilate by symbolically washing our hands so we can pretend like they aren't covered in the blood of innocents as we engage in widespread complicity toward injustice and social evil is just not tolerable. It's dressing up on Sunday morning to praise God with all the enthusiasm we can muster, patting ourselves on the back, and then Sunday afternoon cursing out our neighbor and calling them every bad name in the book--and then having the audacity to say "I follow Jesus".

There are things Jesus says about people like us that do that. And it's not good.

Clare73 said:
There's no one keeping anyone from sending their own help, or forming Christian organizations to do so.
And with that kind of money, I say you have a special obligation to do just that.

As though it was ever mutually exclusive.

Either Christians are for their neighbors, or they aren't. Jesus doesn't give us middle ground.

The Church in America should be ashamed of herself. She's a harlot.

-CryptoLutheran

Pommer · Jul 19, 2025

U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi on Saturday announced that charges against a doctor accused of destroying COVID-19 vaccines and giving children fake shots at their parents’ direction have been dropped.
Prosecutors say Moore and his three co-defendants ran a scheme out of Plastic Surgery Institute of Utah Inc. to "defraud the United States and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."

Law and…order, or something

Fervent · Jul 19, 2025

If the Bible doesn't tell us, why fill the gap?

DaisyDay · Jul 19, 2025

ozso said:
There's been one devastating case of the century against Trump after another, that was going to ruin him and put him behind bars for sure.

Teflon Don.

ozso said:
None of which went anywhere. They've all been nothing burgers.

That's not actually factual. He's been arrested four times and tried and convicted criminally once. He has sued for fraud successfully several times.

ozso said:
I've been saying that along with many others for nearly 10 years. "But he was convicted of 34 felonies!" But he was never sentenced.

Another alternate "fact". He was sentenced to no consequences, but sentenced nonetheless.

ozso said:
Therefore that had zero effect. How could anyone be surprised that many dismissed "he's totally guilty, but we're going to let him walk" as a nothing burger?

Winking at corruption is an honored tradition.

ozso said:
All of the other detrimental cases that surely would've ruined him and put him behind bars, were dropped.

They were dropped not for lack of merit, but because our judicial system won't/can't prosecute a sitting president. He managed to draw things out until it had to be dropped.

ozso said:
Since the judicial system lets him slide, why shouldn't the public?

Seriously? The public should care about blatant corruption even if some members of the judiciary are corrupt, imo.

ozso said:
Donald Trump is going to finish out his term as President, for a second time, and then retire in luxury.

That's unlikely as his health, mental and physical, is not good at all. As for his wealth, he has made more, far more, in the last six months than the accumulated pre-2025 total. It's a disgrace.

ozso said:
And none of this sort of stuff is going to change that in any way whatsoever.

Probably not, but some Magadonians might draw the line if he participated with Epstein in sex trafficking, even as they did not seem to mind his sex assaulting. It is a mystery to me.

Unqualified · Jul 19, 2025

Is she saved? Don’t be unequally yoked with an unbeliever. That’s scripture. You can’t do it all.

Hentenza · Jul 19, 2025

Lord please place your hand on our brother and help him to remove all habitual sin. Lord we are only perfect in your eyes by your grace and Jesus sacrifice but we are all still in this flesh where we fight daily our natural human sinful tendencies. Thank you Lord and we pray this in Jesus name.

SavedByGrace3 · Jul 19, 2025

Hentenza said:
A couple of verses to ponder.

“Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

bible.com

“For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭139‬:‭13‬, ‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Psalms 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame | New American Standard Bible -

For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame

bible.com

God knew us before we were formed in the womb so it seems that the spirit (soul) was already there.

Wow... this one is pretty definitive:

“For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭139‬:‭13‬, ‭16‬ ‭NASB1995
‬‬
Thanks so much.

Leaf473 · Jul 19, 2025

Another example from 1 Corinthians 9

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law

How do you pretend to be under the condemnation of the law?

Closing with Psalm 119 I will delight in Your statutes

I will not forget Your word

Hentenza · Jul 19, 2025

Pommer said:
Aye, am seeing this as well.
What a great deal we got though, 500 tons of food for a measly $800,000, it’d be a shame to have to burn it, but priorities, one supposes.

Here we do agree.

Fervent · Jul 19, 2025

I don't think either Orthodox or Catholics teach that any individual Church Father's writing is on par with Scripture, it is the consensus patronum as a whole that is of central importance. And even that is as a means of clarifying Scripture rather than being its equivolent.

SavedByGrace3 · Jul 19, 2025

Lord, we know from 1 Corinthians 10:13 that there is no temptation that takes us but is common to all mankind. We also know that you are faithful and not willing that we be tempted beyond what we are able, but will provide an escape. Help us to see that escape and help us to endure the period of temptation.

1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

We pray as the Lord instructed: that we not be led into temptation, but rather that we be delivered from all evil.

Matthew 6:13 KJV
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

We pray these things in accordance with your Word and instructions. We know this is your will, and therefore, because we pray according to your will, we have confidence that we have received the things we request.

1 John 5:14-15 KJV
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Therefore, our precious Lord and Savior, we believe that we have received the things we ask for, in the name of Jesus, the shepherd of our souls.

Mark 11:24 RV
24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye have received them, and ye shall have them.

We confess that we are freed from temptation, and if temptation comes our way, we will see the way of escape that you have faithfully provided, and we will endure. We are delivered from evil according to your will!

Hentenza · Jul 19, 2025

SavedByGrace3 said:
Here is a question along the same line. Not wanting to start any argument. Just looking for ideas.
A woman has a miscarriage 24 hours after conception.
Does the "POC" (sic) possess a spirit and live on after death?
Any scripture to support your idea?

A couple of verses to ponder.

“Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

bible.com

“For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭139‬:‭13‬, ‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Psalms 139:13-16 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame | New American Standard Bible -

For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame

bible.com

God knew us before we were formed in the womb so it seems that the spirit (soul) was already there.

timothyu · Jul 19, 2025

AV1611VET said:
A lot of people can be born in that time.

Couple thousand for sure.
Has anyone considered the Garden was separate from the world of man for a time and the Torah perhaps refers to a 'special' race that lived there?

Leaf473 · Jul 19, 2025

For whoever is interested, Romans 3:19 uses a different construction for "under the law" than what we see in Galatians or Corinthians

Trying to build a doctrine that "under the law" in Galatians means "under the condemnation of the law" based on Romans 3:19 leads to error, imo

Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand what the law says... Galatians 4

Who in their right mind would want to be under the condemnation of the law?

Always in His Presence · Jul 19, 2025

Pommer said:
The world’s richest nation decided to burn $0.8 trillion of food rather than it go to people who’d just waste it (by eating it).

And there’s folks here applauding this move.

$800,000 is $0.0008 of a trillion

Just sayin ‘

Amo2 · Jul 19, 2025

Having just finished reading Clement of Rome, apart from his reference to the Phoenix, the work seems to be very biblically based. Somewhat generic though, in that it did not address any of the specifics of the contentions it was addressing. Focussed upon salvation in Christ alone, our High Priest. The importance of faith, right living, the commandments of God and Jesus, and unity of course. As the holy scriptures admonish us to keep the commandments of God, without any reference to the changing of the fourth commandment, so also does this address by Clement. Unless of course a contention regarding such a change was one of the issues he was addressing, which we do not know. Seems like there would have been some debate about such a change, if it were occurring at the time. So probably not. I suppose I will move on to the Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus next.

Amo2 · Jul 19, 2025

While the American Revolution was not specifically a Christian movement, without the battles for Christian liberty being already fought for centuries prior, and the overwhelming support of those who believed in and sought the same on our shores, the revolution would likely have never occurred. Their support in both the war, and formation of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution, were paramount to the successes of either. Representing the maturation of truly Protestant and or biblically based New Covenant inspired government. Government of and by the people, with individual rights and liberties guaranteed, even and especially concerning religious matters. Since the abuse of citizens in accord with and or alliances with religion, were a major cause of such abuses, observed in recent histories which the forefathers of these United States wished to avoid.

Far from a perfect development though it was, our unique situation of being composed of many different and varied populations with as varied religious, political, cultural, and social views, contributed heavily to the formation of a very tolerant and freedom loving form of government and legislative enactment. Though many of the people themselves, all seeking freedom for themselves, took longer than their written laws to actually embrace and or put into practice the freedoms and tolerance towards others they so eagerly embraced for themselves. Such as is, human nature, apparently.

Time once was, when we were proud of our unity among great diversity. When an ever increasing number of legal and or illegal immigrants came to our country truly seeking freedom, and not just a free ride. This is not to ignore the attitude of many natural born citizens as well, who have come to view our nation and government as a free ride as well, as though such had or has anything to doing with with true freedom. Which above all else, is based upon taking personal responsibility for one's self, family, church or religion, neighbors, towns, states, and country. Contributing to the liberality of all of the same. Not living off of such liberality, as though such blessings of freedom, productivity, and the material blessings resulting from such, simply grows on trees all around us. For the taking. An attitude which never has been, is not now, and never will be sustainable.

As a famous President once said with a small addition from me, "ask not what your or our country can do for you - ask what you can do for our country". Personally, I chalk the greater part of an increasing lack of personal responsibility and cry for what amounts to more government dependence, up to a lack of the knowledge of the high moral teachings and standards of holy scripture.

2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. 13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Pro 6:6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, 8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. 9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? 10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: 11 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.

This is not to say that we should not be liberal, as we most certainly should. Only to say and point out the unsustainable effects of an ever increasing number intending to live off of, and or continually take advantage of others liberality. Which is to eventually create the exact conditions of national poverty, so many come here to escape. There is no such a thing as a free ride. Someone, somewhere, is paying for all those who seek and practice such. Opportunity for success, and successful nations which produce such for multitudes do not grow on trees. Plucking all of the fruit from them, unto financial collapse, hurts everyone and destroys countless future opportunities for prosperous living. Enough said, as I am wondering off topic.

Leaf473 · Jul 19, 2025

HIM said:
He was Born of the Spirit. Being born under is not the same as being under. Being of the Spirit he bore the fruits of the Spirit, of which there is no Law.

He was born under, then immediately stopped being under?

the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

Pommer · Jul 19, 2025

Hentenza said:
Interesting that the article fromMSN in the OP states $800 million while the article in The Rolling Stones, Esquire, and Reason have it at $800,000. Quite a difference.

Aye, am seeing this as well.
What a great deal we got though, 500 tons of food for a measly $800,000, it’d be a shame to have to burn it, but priorities, one supposes.

Hentenza · Jul 19, 2025

The Liturgist said:
I assume not, from an Orthodox perspective, since catechumens are not regarded as condemned if they die before baptism, but if one strictly followed St. Augustine the answer would probably be yes.

You hit it on the head. Paedobaptism became the norm of the church at the time of Augustine but I think there is credible evidence from the second century. The Bible does not include examples of infant baptisms unless you assume that family baptisms necessarily included children but that would be an assumption.

The Liturgist said:
That said, there are no benefits in not baptizing, chrismating and providing the Eucharist to infants. We do all three usually on the same Sunday, by baptizing before the Divine Liturgy, so from the font to the chalice takes about two and a half to three hours, maybe a bit more if a bishop is present.

I believe in credobaptism. Children can’t freely accept the Lord as babies. Maybe here is were we diverge in our opinion of salvation of children.

SavedByGrace3 · Jul 19, 2025

Here is a question along the same line. Not wanting to start any argument. Just looking for ideas.
A woman has a miscarriage 24 hours after conception.
Does the "POC" (sic) possess a spirit and live on after death?
Any scripture to support your idea?

Hoping2 · Jul 19, 2025

stevevw said:
Yes and especially pride or envy I think.

Yes which makes it harder to tell the truth from the counterfeit. That is why Christ said that the wolves would come in sheeps clothing.

Yes and I think it is by being Christs church, achieving that disposition as a whole is what shines Christ through the church to the world. Like a lighthouse on a cliff in a stormy see at night.

Though of course we go out into the world to preach the gospel we as a church are suppose to represent the group of Christians that can live together showing a better way. That is ultimately as a church being like Christ. So that when people look to His church they see Christ and not the denomination.

That can only happen with unity under the same church and teachings which go into making the church look like Christ to the world. People already know God and so this Christlike example will being them seeking God when seen from the pagan world.

In fact as you say the pagan world is once again surrounding the church. So I think another sign of Christs church just like in the early church will be Christs church, His leaders and evn members being persecuted even untill death. Because while Christs church will be like a lighthouse to those who will believe when they see it. It will be a trigger to those who defy God.

The more Christs church looks like Christ the more it will stand out to those lost and those who hate God. At present in the west I don't think we see this. But we are beginning to as the west moves away from Christ. Then Christians will be more destinguished and called to stand in the face of persecution and great leaders will arise.

Nero was the emporer and a tyrant against Christians. He executed many Christians including Peter and Paul. He had mass killings at the Colosseum feeding the Christians to the beasts.

But generally there was hatred for the Christians who were percieved as trouble makers with some new religious sect. Especially from the other Jewish sects like the Pharisees who were the real ones behind getting leaders like Paul arrested by the Romans.

There are several archeological finds of hiudden churches. The true story of the fish sign which was a secret symbol denoting Christian to let other Christians know meeting places. Often in back lanes in a house. Otherwise in synagous where the Pharisees would hassle them.

I am not sure what you mean.

Thats the point. That people imagine the bad fruit to be like a criminal and obvious. That wasnot what Christ and the disciples meant by the wolves. They meant that they would come from the very leaders that were already in the church. They were creating different doctrines within the church.

So thats why Paul was always reminding them of the teachings and instructions he gave them and rebuking them when they stopped. It had to be constantly reminded because Christ and especially Paul knew it would be a constant possibility because of human fallen nature within such a large body or believers.

I think for Paul he had a vision in his mind of the church and he was everyday trying to achieve this. He knew that it was only by the teachings Christ had given the diciples that had to be installed over and over again so that it stuck and lasted. That was his mission.

I would think as Peter was the Rock and head of Christs church and that Rome was regarded as the capital of thChristian church mainly because it was the largest city that would have had the largest church with many gentiles coming in.

Also we know that Paul was executed in Rome by Nero. We know Peter was executed also by Nero. Nero also executed Ignatius and in each occassion Nero demanded that the leaders come to Rome and worship at the pagan Temple to renounce their belief.

Both Paul and Ignatius were escorted by guards to Rome and both wrote letters along the way to the churches. It was likely if Peter was in Jerusalem that he was not executed in Jerusalem as we don;t have any evidence for this. Peter would have travelled being the head of the church.

But the verse I linked is recognised as Peter speaking from Rome with Mark when he refers to Rome as Babylon. Not that it matters as e know Peter was still the Rock and would have had wide influence over the church. Along with Paul. Thats why I say Peter may have been the Rock of Christs church overall but Paul was the Rock on which the Gentiles came into the church.

The "rock" the church was built on, was the fact that Jesus was the Son of God.
Just as it is written..."And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt 16:16)

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