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NewLifeInChristJesus · Aug 16, 2025

Hoping2 said:
Ask away !

Are we ever instructed to do the impossible ?
Not at all !

Correct.
The old man, "flesh", prior affections, and lusts, have all been crucified.
Temptations can be resisted after rebirth from God's seed.
Further sin manifests one never truly repented of sin or was reborn of God's seed...as we can only bring forth the 'fruit' of our Progenitor.

Not at all.
The new life is constantly under assault, and the falsely repentant will fall.
It is our reactions to temptations that determine if we are reborn, or just faking it.
Those reborn of God will always resist.

Gotta remember that Paul is not only writing to truly converted men, but also to newbies, and to us in the future too.
Some of his writings have already been accomplished in the proven, but have not yet been heeded by the merely inquisitive.
They have yet to realize the "cost" of a true turn from sin and unto God.
Remember the parable about that tower builder on Luke 14:28-30; he didn't have what it took to complete his plan.
So too, some join the church only to find out they don't really want to commit ALL of their life to the effort.

I fail to see how that is different from your "first" guess.
Men are to turn to God...FROM sin!

The audience of all of scripture contains a mixture of the converted and the merely interested.
Some of the teachings have already been adopted by some, but not yet, by others.
For instance...Just because a scrip' says to stop committing adultery, that doesn't mean anyone is still committing adultery.
But when an adulterer does come along, he will see that he has to change his ways...or leave.

Hope that helps...

Yes, it helps. No other sinless perfection advocate has ever admitted to me strait out that they are sinleesly perfect nor has anyone taken the time to answer direct questions about it. So I appreciate that.

But I wonder if two things you mentioned are common sinless perfection beliefs or are they just localized views...

Speaking of sinners who claim to be Christians, you said, "They have yet to realize the 'cost' of a true turn from sin and unto God" and "some join the church only to find out they don't really want to commit ALL of their life to the effort." This sounds like salvation is seen as a reward for good behavior instead of a reward for contrition and humility before God.
Speaking of truly saved Christians, you said, "The new life is constantly under assault", "Temptations can be resisted after rebirth from God's seed" and "we can only bring forth the 'fruit' of our Progenitor". There seems to be an inconsistency here in that God can't be tempted by evil and you say the progeny only reflect the attributes of their Father yet you say directly that the new life is constantly under attack by evil. Furthermore, James' instruction on temptation makes it clear that a person is tempted when "he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed" (Jas 1:14). This certainly is not true of God, and presumably not His offspring.

Taken together, these two things make sinless perfection seem to be nothing more than another form of legalistism. Legalistic people work hard for their salvation, are deceived about their own faults, and condemn other people.

Benaiah468 · Aug 16, 2025

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. Isa 6:3

The word Holy appears 611 times in the King James Bible

611 is the gematria of the word Torah

torah
תּוֹרָה
22. ת תּ Tav/Sav 400
6. ו Vav 6
20. ר Resch 200
5. ה He 5
Σ 611!

The first 7 words of the Torah have a gematria of 2701.

The first 611 numbers of π, starting with the first decimal place,

1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 6939937510 5820974944 5923078164 0628620899 8628034825 3421170679 8214808651 3282306647 0938446095 5058223172 5359408128 4811174502 8410270193 8521105559 6446229489 5493038196 4428810975 6659334461 2847564823 3786783165 2712019091 4564856692 3460348610 4543266482 1339360726 0249141273 7245870066 0631558817 4881520920 9628292540 9171536436 7892590360 0113305305 4882046652 1384146951 9415116094 3305727036 5759591953 0921861173 8193261179 3105118548 0744623799 6274956735 1885752724 8912279381 8301194912 9833673362 4406566430 8602139494 6395224737 1907021798 6094370277 0539217176 2931767523 8467481846 7669405132 0005681271 4

add up to 2701!

The Hebrew word for Holy is qadosh

qadosh (Holy)
קָדוֹשׁ
19. ק Quph 100
4. ד Dalet 4
6. ו Vav 6
21. שׂ שׁ Shin/Sin 300
Σ 410

It has the gematria 410.

Holy, holy, holy
410, 410, 410

From the 410410410th digit in π, which is no less than four hundred and ten million four hundred and ten thousand four hundred and ten, the 3 following numbers are 611!

Irrational Numbers Search Engine

Up to this point, it is the 410552nd occurrence of the number 611. This result can be verified with y-chruncher, the software used in the
record-breaking π-search, and a text editor such as EmEditor. EmEditor has a search function that gives the number of occurrences within a string of numbers. It takes time and requires a lot of computer resources!

The number 410552 can be divided into the two factors 152! and 2701!

410552 = 152*2701!

In the Strongs directory, the Hebrew word #H410, el, is the designation for G-d. el is the generally accepted shortened form of elohim.

The word el has a gematria of 31

el (G-d)
אֵל
1. א Alef 1
12. ל Lamed 30
Σ 31!

The first 31 digits of π, from the first decimal place,

.14159265358979323846264338327950

add up to

1+4+1+5+9+2+6+5+3+5+8+9+7+9+3+2+3+8+4+6+2+6+4+3+3+8+3+2+7+9+5+0 = 152!

The first 31 numbers of π, Φ (Phi, Golden Ratio) and e (Euler's number), starting with the first decimal place, add up to

π = .1415926535897932384626433832795
Φ = .6180339887498948482045868343656
e = .7182818284590452353602874713526

pi digit generator
phi digit generator
e digit generator

1+4+1+5+9+2+6+5+3+5+8+9+7+9+3+2+3+8+4+6+2+6+4+3+3+8+3+2+7+9+5+6+1+8+0+3+3+9+8+8+7+4+9+8+9+4+8+4+8+2+0+4+5+8+6+8+3+4+3+6+5+6+7+1+8+2+8+1+8+2+84+5+9+0+4+5+2+3+5+3+6+0+2+8+7+4+7+1+3+5+2+6 = 455!

455 is the gematria of the second half of the sentence in Isaiah

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. Isa 6:3
וְקָרָ֨א זֶ֤ה אֶל־זֶה֙ וְאָמַ֔ר קָדֹ֧ושׁ׀ קָדֹ֛ושׁ קָדֹ֖ושׁ יְהוָ֣ה צְבָאֹ֑ות מְלֹ֥א כָל־הָאָ֖רֶץ כְּבֹודֹֽו

the whole earth is full of his glory
m'lo chol ha'aretz kevodo
מלא כל הארץ כבודו
13. מ Mem 40
12. ל Lamed 30
1. א Alef 1
11. כ כּ Kaf/Khaf 20
12. ל Lamed 30
5. ה He 5
1. א Alef 1
20. ר Resch 200
18. צ Tsadik 90
11. כ כּ Kaf/Khaf 20
2. ב בּ Bet/Vet 2
6. ו Vav 6
4. ד Dalet 4
6. ו Vav 6
Σ 455!

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Mt.11:25

CoreyD · Aug 16, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
You are right that there are a few verses that if read a certain way say that a person's livened spirit can end because they do not endure. But given the many Scriptures that explicity say that the spiritual lives we inherited from God last forever, wouldn't it be important for the Bible to include at least one verse that says clearly and directly without any ambiguity that there are instances where it may not be eternal?

Are nine verses too few?
How many would make it valid, and why do you say, if read a certain way?
Can you please explain how else they should be read, to say otherwise, and can you please provide those scriptures that "explicitly say that the spiritual lives we inherited from God last forever"? Since a person might say you are reading those scriptures "a certain way".
Would you accept that, since context can make a difference in how a scripture is to be understood?

Akita Suggagaki · Aug 16, 2025

seeking.IAM said:
"People who identified as Christians described Christians as:

1. Giving — 57 percent
2. Compassionate — 56 percent
3. Loving — 55 percent
4. Respectful — 50 percent
5. Friendly — 49 percent
6. Honest — 45 percent
7. Humble — 42 percent
8. Sharing — 42 percent
9. Truthful — 40 percent
10. Judgemental — 19 percent

Humble? Truthful? Loving? Compassionate? Of course there are many such Christian but my experience, even as one of them, is pretty light on at least these four.

Unqualified · Aug 16, 2025

What is your idea of the end coming? When does God judge the earth…. Soon?

Hvizsgyak · Aug 16, 2025

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
... what? That's such a nonsensical argument. Scientists can't imagine they're right next to an object in deep space because it's in deep space and we can only view them from earth so... scientists shouldn't make statements they've gathered from investigating and studying these objects?

Forget River Jordan's midset, I'm wondering about your mindset since it's so... so strange.

Scientists can investigate and study and comment on them all they want but when writing them down for the general public place them under Science Fiction.

Tropical Wilds · Aug 16, 2025

A2SG said:
Heck, I even used to live in Southie!!

-- A2SG, just don't wear Yankees merch, and you'll have no problem...

LoL! Speaking of women who could level most men in a physical fight… Southie women are next level. Even men don’t want to fight with them, lol!

prodromos · Aug 16, 2025

Hentenza said:
The “rock” was given by the U.S. Ambassador J. William Middendorf not by Aldrin. This was an error and in no way representative of the 842 lbs of actual moon rocks. Your story here is getting old.

She has been told this before, but she keeps posting these false claims like a dog returning to its vomit (Proverbs 26:11)

Tropical Wilds · Aug 16, 2025

RDKirk said:
I've already pointed out that the draft issue is just a political football. Whenever it's brought up by either side, they're just moving a goalpost...as you did here.

What do you mean by "disrespectful" in this particular argument? I don't think any socially mature individual in modern society should respond to, say, a crass remark, with physical violence...male or female. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is how I was taught to respond to basic "disrespect" on the street.

Or are you arguing that physical violence initiated by one party should never be responded to with physical violence?

The physical violence thing was brought up by that other guy… “Equal rights means equal lefts” was I believe his phrase. That invented scenario was “if women really want equal rights, does that mean they’re OK with/should expect being punched in the face by a man they’ve disrespected,” or the general belief that feminists don’t truly want equal rights because they expect to not be punched in the face if they’re disrespectful to the wrong man. That’s where the whole face punching thing started.

(Post 231)

tturt · Aug 16, 2025

Dave Watchman · Aug 16, 2025

keras said:
Christian believers are at odds with one another. We all read the Bible and keep the Commandments. Why do we understand the Prophesies so differently?
My approach is to read the prophesies literally, unless they are obviously metaphorical; describing something not known in ancient times, but what is possible to figure out from our modern knowledge.
I am also a studier of history, so I fairly well know what has happened and what is yet to be fulfilled.

We are at odds of understanding the Bible Prophecies because some people have been brainwashed by what Hal Lindsey, Herbert Armstrong, Dave Pack, and whoever else the latest other prophecy expositor is now. Once people get locked into an erroneous mindset, or fabricate a humorous graphic, or write a set of pamphlets, they are trapped. They become trapped in their own eschatology. Their eschatology becomes bigger to them than the truth itself, a strange form of self righteousness, a cult of one. That's why I usually avoid talking on their threads.

keras said:
s for the Jewish State of Israel, the whole concept and realization of that entity is a Satanic construct. Jesus said it would happen, Matthew 24:32, but He never said it was from God.
The Zionist Congress, headed by Theodore Hertzel, were mostly all atheists and their Jewish State of Israel was founded on communist principals. Today it is a secular state, run just as every other democracy, with many beliefs having a say in State politics. Judaism; with its denial of Jesus is no better than Islam.

The only reason that the Jewish State of Israel is over there now is to hold up a sign that has to do with Jerusalem. Once in 1535, and again in 1969. Jesus is not coming back to start up Old Time Israel again, He's just using them as tools to hold up a sign. And to the end, desolations are decreed. We, on the other hand, have a brand New Jerusalem on the way.

keras said:
But what really astounds me, is how people ignore the many prophesies that clearly state the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Which will happen at the Sixth Seal, the next prophesied event. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Hosea 4:3, ++
Isaiah 22:1-14; is one of the best prophesies about this forthcoming Day. It describes how they rush about, terrified; as they see their doom approaching. Ezekiel 7:14-20 & 22:1-8, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 25:30-38
What will trigger the Lord to act on His terrible Day of fiery wrath, is told us in Isaiah 22:6, where Iran and all the Islamic entities will commence an attack onto the holy Land, something that is only possible now, using nuke missiles, as Zechariah 5:1-11, Psalms 7:12-16 and Psalms 83 tell us, and with the result of their surprise attack.
This scenario will happen; it is what the Bible says. If we reject it, then what else of the Bible is wrong and can we trust it for anything?

There are five different types of Bible Prophecy. Here again you are mixing up the Judaic Prophecies, which were conditional in nature, with the Day of the Lord style Prophecies, which are abstract in their timing. As usual, you are ignoring, and thereby excluding the Apocalyptic Prophecies as found in Daniel and Revelation. The Old Time Judaic Prophecies will not harmonize with Apocalyptic Prophecy.

I remember talking to you about this before, and I remember you didn't like it. I'll put it in a SPOILER this time so you don't need to expand on it if you don't want.

Five Types of Bible Prophecy

1) Local Prophecy

Prophecies applicable to a specific place and time. These would include Noah's flood, or Jonah's visit to the people of Nineveh. Maybe that King who saw his shadow moving backwards.

2) Messianic Prophecy

These had to do with Jesus' first Visitation. Like Isaiah 52

He Was Pierced for Our Transgressions
Behold, my servant shall act wisely
he shall be high and lifted up,
and shall be exalted.

As many were astonished at you—
his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
and his form beyond that of the children of mankind—
So shall he sprinkle many nations.
Kings shall shut their mouths because of him,
for that which has not been told them they see,
and that which they have not heard they understand.

3) Day of the Lord Prophecy

Very peculiar in their structure. Like Isaiah 13. John MacArthur called them near/far prophecies. In a Day of the Lord Prophecy the Prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event to do with the Babylonians, and then can seem to peer down through the millennia to the final and ultimate Day of the Lord that will include all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

4) Judaic Prophecy

These are conditional prophecies that pertained to Ancient Israel. If you obey the Lord your God. If you do this, then He will do that. If they put away the bodies of their dead kings, THEN show them the plan of the Temple.

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

5) Apocalyptic Prophecy

Apocalyptic Prophesy have unique characteristics. They are separated by chronological order. Each of these have a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. When the chronological order is broken, and the subject matter changes, a new prophecy usually begins. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods, in the Books of Daniel and Revelation. What also makes these unique from the OT Judaic end time prophecies are the prophetic time periods connected with the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation.

There are certainly parallels in Ezekiel and Zechariah, to the Day of the Lord event which will occur at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20, (Gog Magog), but it can't happen exactly that way anymore.

Everything in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, and the Judaic Prophecies, hinged on what the Israelite's did during the first half of the 70th week of Daniel 9. Because they were conditional Prophecies. "If they do all that they are instructed, then show them the plan of the temple. According to Ezekiel 43, if Old Time Jews are ashamed of all they have done, they should be shown the design of the temple, including its arrangement, exits, entrances, and all its statutes, forms, and laws, so that they may keep its complete design and carry out its ordinances.

But what if they're not ashamed? What if they do not put away the dead bodies of their kings? Do we still wait for a rebuilt temple?

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. - Jesus

What if the Old Time Jews were willing? What if they did let their Messiah, our Messiah, gather them like a hen gathers it's chicks? Something different could have taken place with the OT conditional Judaic Prophecies. If they would have just let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks, Ezekiel's temple would have been built already. But they missed the time of their Visitation. Jesus had to stick with the Script, so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Let me put this in another SPOILER. You won't need to expand on it, if you'd rather not.

God had three prophets in operation at the same time. Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets prophesying, but He was giving them two different end time narratives, Everything would hinge on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks, and especially the first half of the 70th week.. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks were "chawthak" or cut off. It really was Old Israel's one last and final chance:

to finish the transgression,
to put an end to sin,
and to atone for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal both vision and prophet,
and to anoint a most holy place.

It was in their midst. All that they would have had to do was to accept their Messiah. It's why John the Baptist was always saying that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Because it really was at hand right then and there. If the Old Time Jews would have cooperated and accepted their Messiah it would have been a completely different world right now. Daniel would have remained forever sealed, Revelation would have never been written. We would have built Ezekiel's Temple sometime in the middle ages.

The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come and live there in the Kingdom of God in the 1st century. The good news of the Kingdom of God would have travelled far and fast. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.

Then, after some time, Satan in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

But now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT and Revelation gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, we get an end time Babylon, an end time Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000, Jesus makes His second Visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog.

Does this describe how the Crucifixion occurred?:

Him Whom They Have Pierced

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.

Is this how it happened after the Crucifixion? Or is this describing the original method of how Jesus would have been sacrificed as the Lamb if humanity had not turned Him over to the enemy? I don't remember too many of those tribes weeping very hard. Just mostly His family and close friends.

Even though I myself doubt Zechariah is happening exactly as it is written, there are certain parallels I find awesome.

"On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.

I imagine this as how it will be at Judgement Day at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20. A Day like no other. Where God is in control of the light, the temperature, the wind and everything else. That's going to be spooky. A day like no other.

What I think gives me the knack, or a bit of an edge, an advantage, in understanding the end time Prophecies, is my focus on Daniel and Revelation. With these it's not just the Scripture, or the text of the Scripture alone, but there are also 18 Prophetic periods of time that can be used for direction.

I would actually rather be talking about where I think we really are right now in the Apocalyptic Prophecy timeline. But because I think we are much closer to the actual second coming of Messiah, it's probably just better to sit back, be silent, and wait and see what happens next. Let the Son of Man surprise us now on a day that we do not expect.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Lukaris · Aug 16, 2025

Bishops are basically watchmen or overseers and, I believe, the concept of their duty is to warn the faithful of sin & need for repentance. Ezekiel was appointed by God in such a capacity ( Ezekiel 3:16-21). The Lord appointed the Apostles in, I believe, the same manner in John 20:19-23.

A2SG · Aug 16, 2025

Tropical Wilds said:
If you’ve grown up in Boston and not been punched in the face, that truly is saying something. Living in NH and visiting Boston frequently, the incidence of random face-punching between people there seems to be higher than anywhere else in the country.

Heck, I even used to live in Southie!!

-- A2SG, just don't wear Yankees merch, and you'll have no problem...

Tuur · Aug 16, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
The science is from primarily non-government sources.

First, since you said you never heard of the Schon scandal, here's what Wikipedia has to say:

Schön scandal - Wikipedia

Second, saying the science comes primarily from non-science sources overlooks how propaganda usually involves cherry-picking. Take only that which promotes the policy you desire and overlook the rest.

So it is that odds are good that you never heard of a study back in 2011 found climate models had an accuracy of less than a random walk. Models have likely changed in the last 14 years so the study may well no longer be valid. The point is that, at the time, the study essentially flew under radar. If someone is wanting to implement a change based on climate predictions, the last thing they want to hear, especially if they've invested a lot of time and money, is those predictions may well have been less accurate than guessing. Climate models are science; the study that in 2011 the models were less accurate than a random walk is science, but telling one and not the other to promote a particular view, and that (with apologies to political science majors) isn't science.

Did I mention that study was 14 years old? Did I mention climate models have (hopefully) changed? I did? Good. Wouldn't want anyone to get upset.

Assuming one party does it while another party doesn't strikes me like Art Buchwald's comment that when he poked fun an one party the other thought he was hilarious, but when their party was in office and he poked fun at them, they thought he's lost his sense of humor. All of them do it. Thinking that it's one and not the other creates a blind spot.

Just some advice from an old cynic who'll read "those" journals if they come up under science news.

The Barbarian · Aug 16, 2025

Almost like the MAGA insurrection on Jan 6. Without the attacks on police officers, that is.

Postvieww said:
There was no insurrection!!!!

The insurrectionists say that there was.

Postvieww said:
A protest that was out of control yes

A mob attacked the Capitol seeking to hang the Vice President and overturn the election.

Postvieww said:
Tell us who was offered and refused help from the the national guard,

It would have been counter-productive for Trump to accept the offer of National Guard troops by the Governor of Maryland; The whole point of the insurrection was a desperate attempt by Trump to remain president. Finally, they went around Trump and got permission from the acting Secretary of the Army, and the troops moved in, ending the insurrection.

Gov. Hogan recounts harrowing call from lawmakers in basement of Capitol on Jan. 6

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan on Friday recounted his role in assisting law enforcement to quell rioters at the Capitol building.

www.cbsnews.com

Postvieww said:
tell about the bombs placed at the DNC and RNC

It is yet to be proven that "Oath Keepers" were responsible for that. They certainly had the means there that day:

Oath Keeper members brought explosives to DC area around January 6 and had a ‘death list,’ prosecutors say

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/08/politics/oath-keepers-explosives-death-list-january-6

It's a reasonable suspicion; they had the motive, the means, and the opportunity. But it's not proven.

You are still stuck in the MAGA mud on this issue and you seem too indoctrinated to ever find the truth. But pressure continues on Trump to come clean on the Epstein issue as more and more people become convinced he's hiding things from us. The hunted are now the hunters.

Enjoy.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Aug 16, 2025

AV1611VET said:
The answer I'm looking for starts with the letter w.

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey?

Tropical Wilds · Aug 16, 2025

A2SG said:
Obvious to you, perhaps. For my part, I see politeness instead of gender stereotypes. I've opened doors for other people (men and women), and I've had doors opened for me (by men and women), I don't see how gender makes any difference.

I know many women who can, and have, changed tires. Me, I'm hopeless at it. I call AAA.

They might be better off calling a plumber. I know one who's good, her name's Cheryl.

You sure live in a violent world, my friend. Up here in Boston, I've managed to live to my 60s, and I've yet to face even a single uppercut.

Despite actual modern feminists saying otherwise. Have you even listened to them when they've spoken? One particular poster in this thread had been very vocal about her views on the matter.

Other than the prices, I can't say I find as much benefit from living in the 1950s as you do.

-- A2SG, boy, that new episode of I Love Lucy on last night was a hoot, wasn't it?

If you’ve grown up in Boston and not been punched in the face, that truly is saying something. Living in NH and visiting Boston frequently, the incidence of random face-punching between people there seems to be higher than anywhere else in the country.

RDKirk · Aug 16, 2025

BCP1928 said:
That's all very well, but how does it address the proposition at hand? That women should have the vote, but the feminists (vaguely defined) among them should not have the vote unless they register for the draft?

I've already pointed out that the draft issue is just a political football. Whenever it's brought up by either side, they're just moving a goalpost...as you did here.

BCP1928 said:
Or that a feminist (again, vaguely defined) who is disrepectful to a man should expect a violent physical response?

What do you mean by "disrespectful" in this particular argument? I don't think any socially mature individual in modern society should respond to, say, a crass remark, with physical violence...male or female. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is how I was taught to respond to basic "disrespect" on the street.

Or are you arguing that physical violence initiated by one party should never be responded to with physical violence?

Tropical Wilds · Aug 16, 2025

Oompa Loompa said:
The obvious answer is no. No. She should not be surprised nor offended because she should understand that she is getting the equality that she so desperately desired. In fact, I would expect her to be offended if a man offered her a seat just like how so many modern male hating feminist activist would respond if a man opened a door for her.

Feminists get mad when people hold open the doors for them? lol, what?

Oompa Loompa said:
These are the same feminist who will choose the bear over a man.

My dude, I have never, ever felt more confident about choosing the bear in my entire life than I do right now, having read this thread. I’m on the brink of choosing a bear riding on a lion while leading a T. rex on a leash before choosing the man. No woman in the history of women would ever read this thread and rethink choosing the bear because despite the men who are not being problems, the ones who are carrying the reddest of red flags are more unsafe.

Oompa Loompa said:
That is the obvious answer. Ironically, these are the same exact women who will be sitting on the side of the road begging for a man's help when they have a flat tire. These are the same women who will be begging for a man's help when their faucet is leaking. These are the same women who will mock, insult, and even physically threaten men and cry for men to help her when she finds herself on the wrong side of an uppercut. I keep asking the question, do modern feminist want equality? The obvious answer is heck no. They dont want to be treated equal to men. They want to be treated better than men, because they think they are better than men. That is modern feminism. Not how I emphasize "modern" feminism. Because modern feminism is a toxic and corrupt movement that almost has nothing to do with the first wave sufferigists who wanted equality with men and the right to vote. Nor does it have anything to do with the 2nd wave feminism that taught young women that they dont need men. Now, it is a movement that teaches women that they are better than men. Ironic because they cannot even define what a man is! And these same feminist are trashing traditional biblical gender roles as outlined in Ephesians 5 when those instructions have proven themselves to be true for hundreds of years. Then people sit around and wonder why divorce rates are so high, women are prostituting themselves on OnlyFans, boys who think they are men are impregnating young women and abandoning them to be raised and provided by the State welfare system. The obvious answer is because men allowed it. The family is the most basic building block of a civilization, and men sat back and made compromises with the world and watched apathetically as society begins to collapse for the sake of "equality."

That’s a lot of words when “I don’t like modern women” would have done just fine.

Oompa Loompa said:
Now dont hear me wrong. I AM NOT SAYING MEN ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN. I am saying men and women are not the same or equal other than in an ontological sense that both are created in the image of God. But I almost guarantee that the marriage between the husband and the spouse provided in the OP would yield much better fruit than any alternative in spite the fact that the husband had the audacity to say he is the head of his household, and that after careful discussion and a consensus with the entire family, his vote alone is sufficient to represent the voice of his home. Again, if a feminist activist doesnt like it, I dont care. They can change their own tire and stand on the subway train the entire day while I sit in my seat. But Christians above all shouldn't criticize the biblically based decisions of a husband who is trying to be faithful to the Word of God in the best way they know how. To them, I say the issue is between them and God, not me, Pete Hegseth, the Pastor, or the married couple.

Again, so because women want equality and to vote, that means you are allowed punch them, not help them, and generally be a pill towards them? Because that’s what equality is to you? Indiscriminate violence and causing problems where you don’t need to?

My dude. Wow.

CoreyD · Aug 16, 2025

linux.poet said:
The memorial service for my mother is tomorrow. Please pray that it goes well. I finished my speech write-up on time, but I have a friend who is fighting to get transportation to the service, and we have an uncertain flower delivery that is supposed to arrive tomorrow, so please pray that it arrives in time for the service at 4 PM. I have speech practice tomorrow for all involved before the service and I still have to decide what to wear.

We're also going to have a livestream for those who can't attend in person (a lot of people) so please pray that goes without incident. It's going to be a very long day tomorrow. Time for sleep.

May you be comforted in your moments of grief... you and your relatives.
Romans 15:4 says, For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

So, the scriptures give quite a lot of comfort, and if the paster presiding over the service uses these scriptures, all things will go well for all present.
If you share with us what scriptures the presiding one uses, I would really appreciate that.

If you remember that your mom is not in that box, but is asleep... resting in God's memorial John 5:27, 28, that too will help, rather than like most people who want to grabble the box, or some other thing like that.
Paul said, But we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those having fallen asleep, so that you should not be grieved, just as also the rest, those having no hope. 1 Thessalonians 4:13

We certainly don't want to be like those having no hope.
We miss our loved ones as God surely does, but just as God longs to see his dead loved ones, we too, keep our mind on that future hope. Job 14:13-15

May you have peace on that most difficult day.

bbbbbbb · Aug 16, 2025

HIM said:
That is Heb 10:26 not Heb 6.

Thanks for finally getting around to providing your citation. As is typical in these sorts of discussions, it is a proof verse without its context. Here is the complete context of the entire chapter -

Hebrews 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”
8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,

“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”
38 And,

“But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

As you can see, there are multiple verses in this chapter providing assurance to the readers that their sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus Christ and they have boldness to enter into His very presence. The chapter ends on a high note of great encouragement where he tells them that they are not those he has been describing, but those who have faith and are saved.

This is, of course, is closely related to the previous passage in chapter six where he explicitly makes it clear that his audience is not at all those he described as never being able to repent again.

Maria Billingsley · Aug 16, 2025

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Is this not a nation that supports Israel? Would it not be anti-semetic to teach practicing Jewish children about Jesus Christ of Nazareth? I wish people would recognize the hypocrisy of it all.
As far as being sacked, I don't know but there will certainly be complaints from parents who are not agreeable to Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

Tropical Wilds · Aug 16, 2025

Oompa Loompa said:
Respectfully. I dont care about what you would do. I am asking about what she should expect if you had not. Frankly, I feel like everyone knows the obvious answer to the question but are trying to tiptoe around it because they refuse to concede to the obvious reality.

So we are clear…

You don’t want to hear what actual people would do in those scenarios… You want to hear what we think the person you invented out of thin air is thinking when placed in a scenario concocted by you, then you are wanting us to hold this fake persons imaginary narrative up to be indicative of what real people would do in a similar situation?

Amo2 · Aug 16, 2025

stevevw said:
I don't think the church fathers meant that the bishop was like God but rather were ambassadors who stood in the church on Christs behalf.

Paul mentions this in 2 Corinthians 5:20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Then we see the Didache which is around 70AD say something similar again.
The Didache
Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turn and teach another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not; but if he teach so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord.

But concerning the apostles and prophets, according to the decree of the Gospel, thus do. Let every apostle that comes to you be received as the Lord.

Ignatius says something similar

Chapter 6. Have respect to the bishop as to Christ Himself
For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, Matthew 24:45 as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself.

Look upon as though we would Christ, making an appeal as though Christ is making the appeal or appealing on Christs behalf or recieving the one the Master sends as though it is the Master.

This is not saying the apostles or bishops are God or Christ themselves or are to be regarded as such. But that they are representing the authority of Christs words and teachings to being overseers of the church. They have been specially appointed as ambassadors to continue Christs Ministry.

Ignatius further expands on this.

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father" “Let all things therefore be done by you with good order in Christ. Let the laity be subject to the deacons; the deacons to the presbyters; the presbyters to the bishop; the bishop to Christ, even as He is to the Father.” (St. Ignatius: Letter to the Smyrnaeans; Ch 9)

I don't think all these independent sources got this wrong and were promoted disciples or overseers as gods. This seems to have been a universal understanding and one that was around when some disiples were still around and many witnesses.

There wuld have been objections to such an obvious falsehood. But we hear nothing as though this was understood as representing Christs authority rather than any human being a god. The other factor is that all these men died defending the teachings. They actually lived Christs example.

What Paul said was nothing like the statement we are discussing. Neither Paul or any other apostle or prophet admonished anyone ever, to look up to them as though they were God or Christ, who is Himself God. This is blasphemy, plain and simple. It reeks of what Paul warned the Thessalonians about concerning the man of sin, who would set himself up in the temple of God as though he was God. What else could telling members of Christ's church which is the New Covenant temple of God, to be subject to presbyters and deacons as unto God be, but setting these individuals up in the church or temple of God as though they were God? This principle being continually built upon over time, was the forerunner of the man of sin and antichrist.

I am well aware of Ignatius' exaltation of the bishops as unto God as I see it, having read his writings and addressed this issue many years ago already. Which was part of that which I have just stated, as I understand it. Emphasis in the following quotes is mine.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE EPHESIANS

CHAPTER 2 CONGRATULATIONS AND ENTREATIES

May I always have joy of you, if indeed I be worthy of it. It is therefore befitting that you should in every way glorify Jesus Christ, who hath glorified you, that by a unanimous obedience “ye may be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment, and may all speak the same thing concerning the same thing,” and that, being subject to the bishop and the presbytery, ye may in all respects be sanctified.

CHAPTER 4

Wherefore it is fitting that ye also should run together in accordance with the will of the bishop who by God’s appointment rules over you. Which thing ye indeed of yourselves do, being instructed by the Spirit. For your justly-renowned presbytery, being worthy of God, is fitted as exactly to the bishop as the strings are to the harp. Thus, being joined together in concord and harmonious love, of which Jesus Christ is the Captain and Guardian, do ye, man by man, become but one choir; so that, agreeing together in concord, and obtaining a perfect unity with God, ye may indeed be one in harmonious feeling with God the Father, and His beloved Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

CHAPTER 5 THE PRAISE OF UNITY

Let no man deceive himself: if any one be not within the altar, he is deprived of the bread of God. For if the prayer of one or two possesses such power, how much more that of the bishop and the whole Church! He, therefore, that does not assemble with the Church, has even by this manifested his pride, and condemned himself. For it is written, “God resisteth the proud.” Let us be careful, then, not to set ourselves in opposition to the bishop, in order that we may be subject to God.

CHAPTER 6 HAVE RESPECT TO THE BISHOP AS TO CHRIST HIMSELF

Now the more any one sees the bishop keeping silence, the more ought he to revere him. For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself. And indeed Onesimus himself greatly commends your good order in God, that ye all live according to the truth, and that no sect has any dwelling-place among you. Nor, indeed, do ye hearken to any one rather than to Jesus Christ speaking in truth.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE MAGNESIANS

CHAPTER 3 HONOR YOUR YOUTHFUL BISHOP

Now it becomes you also not to treat your bishop too familiarly on account of his youth, but to yield him all reverence, having respect to the power of God the Father, as I have known even holy presbyters do, not judging rashly, from the manifest youthful appearance [of their bishop], but as being themselves prudent in God, submitting to him, or rather not to him, but to the Father of Jesus Christ, the bishop of us all. It is therefore fitting that you should, after no hypocritical fashion, obey [your bishop], in honor of Him who has willed us [so to do], since he that does not so deceives not [by such conduct] the bishop that is visible, but seeks to mock Him that is invisible. And all such conduct has reference not to man, but to God, who knows all secrets.

CHAPTER 4 SOME WICKEDLY ACT INDEPENDENTLY OF THE BISHOP

It is fitting, then, not only to be called Christians, but to be so in reality. For it is not the being called so, but the being really so, that renders a man blessed. To those who indeed talk of the bishop, but do all things without him, will He who is the true and first Bishop, and the only High Priest by nature, declare, “Why call ye Me Lord, and do not the things which I say?” For such persons seem to me not possessed of a good conscience, but to be simply dissemblers and hypocrites.

CHAPTER 7 DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE BISHOP AND PRESBYTERS

As therefore the Lord did nothing without the Father, being united to Him, neither by Himself nor by the apostles, so neither do ye anything without the bishop and presbyters. Neither endeavor that anything appear reasonable and proper to yourselves apart; but being come together into the same place, let there be one prayer, one supplication, one mind, one hope, in love and in joy undefiled. There is one Jesus Christ, than whom nothing is more excellent. Do ye therefore all run together as into one temple of God, as to one altar, as to one Jesus Christ, who came forth from one Father, and is with and has gone to one.

CHAPTER 13 BE ESTABLISHED IN FAITH AND UNITY

Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever ye do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end; with your most admirable bishop, and the well-compacted spiritual crown of your presbytery, and the deacons who are according to God. Be ye subject to the bishop, and to one another, as Jesus Christ to the Father, according to the flesh, and the apostles to Christ, and to the Father, and to the Spirit; that so there may be a union both fleshly and spiritual.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE TRALLIANS

CHAPTER 2 BE SUBJECT TO THE BISHOP, ETC

For, since ye are subject to the bishop as to Jesus Christ, ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order, by believing in His death, ye may escape from death. It is therefore necessary that, as ye indeed do, so without the bishop ye should do nothing, but should also be subject to the presbytery, as to the apostle of Jesus Christ, who is our hope, in whom, if we live, we shall [at last] be found. It is fitting also that the deacons, as being [the ministers] of the mysteries of Jesus Christ, should in every respect be pleasing to all. For they are not ministers of meat and drink, but servants of the Church of God. They are bound, therefore, to avoid all grounds of accusation [against them], as they would do fire.

CHAPTER 3 HONOR THE DEACONS, ETC

In like manner, let all reverence the deacons as an appointment of Jesus Christ, and the bishop as Jesus Christ, who is the Son of the Father, and the presbyters as the sanhedrim of God, and assembly of the apostles. Apart from these, there is no Church. Concerning all this, I am persuaded that ye are of the same opinion. For I have received the manifestations of your love, and still have it with me, in your bishop, whose very appearance is highly instructive, and his meekness of itself a power; whom I imagine even the ungodly must reverence, seeing they are also pleased that I do not spare myself. But shall I, when permitted to write on this point, reach such a height of self-esteem, that though being a condemned man, I should issue commands to you as if I were an apostle?

CHAPTER 7 THE SAME CONTINUED

Be on your guard, [therefore, against such persons, that ye admit not of a snare for your own souls. And act so that your life shall be without offense to all men, lest ye become as “a snare upon a watch-tower, and as a net which is spread out.” For “he that does not heal himself in his own works, is the brother of him that destroys himself.” If, therefore, ye also put away conceit, arrogance, disdain, and haughtiness, it will be your privilege to be inseparably united to God, for “He is nigh unto those that fear Him.” And says He, “Upon whom will I look, but upon him that is humble and quiet, and that trembles at my words?” And do ye also reverence your bishop as Christ Himself, according as the blessed apostles have enjoined you. He that is within the altar is pure, wherefore also he is obedient to the bishop and presbyters: but he that is without is one that does anything apart from the bishop, the presbyters, and the deacons. Such a person is defiled in his conscience, and is worse than an infidel. For what is the bishop but one who beyond all others possesses all power and authority, so far as it is possible for a man to possess it, who according to his ability has been made an imitator of the Christ of God? And what is the presbytery but a sacred assembly, the counselors and assessors of the bishop? And what are the deacons but imitators of the angelic powers, fulfilling a pure and blameless ministry unto him, as the holy Stephen did to the blessed James, Timothy and Linus to Paul, Anencletus and Clement to Peter? He, therefore, that will not yield obedience to such, must needs be one utterly without God, an impious man who despises Christ, and depreciates His appointments.

CHAPTER 13 CONCLUSION

The love of the Smyrnaeans and Ephesians salutes you. Remember in your prayers the Church which is in Syria, from which also I am not worthy to receive my appellation, being the last of them. Fare ye well in Jesus Christ, while ye continue subject to the bishop, as to the command [of God], and in like manner to the presbytery. And do ye, every man, love one another with an undivided heart. Let my spirit be sanctified by yours, not only now, but also when I shall attain to God. For I am as yet exposed to danger. But the Father is faithful in Jesus Christ to fulfill both mine and your petitions: in whom may ye be found unblameable.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILADELPHIANS

CHAPTER 7 I HAVE EXHORTED YOU TO UNITY

For though some would have deceived me according to the flesh, yet the Spirit, as being from God, is not deceived. For it knows both whence it comes and whither it goes, and detects the secrets [of the heart]. For, when I was among you, I cried, I spoke with a loud voice: Give heed to the bishop, and to the presbytery and deacons. Now, some suspected me of having spoken thus, as knowing beforehand the division caused by some among you. But He is my witness, for whose sake I am in bonds, that I got no intelligence from any man. But the Spirit proclaimed these words: Do nothing without the bishop; keep your bodies as the temples of God; love unity; avoid divisions; be the followers of Jesus Christ, even as He is of His Father.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE SMYRNAEANS

CHAPTER 8 LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

CHAPTER 9 HONOR THE BISHOP

Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honors the bishop has been honored by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for ye are worthy. Ye have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. Ye have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while ye endure all things, ye shall attain unto Him.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO POLYCARP

CHAPTER 6 THE DUTIES OF THE CHRISTIAN FLOCK

Give ye heed to the bishop, that God also may give heed to you. My soul be for theirs that are submissive to the bishop, to the presbyters, and to the deacons, and may my portion be along with them in God! Labor together with one another; strive in company together; run together; suffer together; sleep together; and awake together, as the stewards, and associates, and servants of God. Please ye Him under whom ye fight, and from whom ye receive your wages. Let none of you be found a deserter. Let your baptism endure as your arms; your faith as your helmet; your love as your spear; your patience as a complete panoply. Let your works be the charge assigned to you, that ye may receive a worthy recompense. Be long-suffering-, therefore, with one another, in meekness, as God is towards you. May I have joy of you for ever!

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