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essentialsaltes · Aug 30, 2025

ozso said:
Founder of Haystack Investigations: A professional investigations and auditing consulting firm.

Right, she's a gumshoe. Not an elections expert.

Platte · Aug 30, 2025

Jipsah said:
He still didn't define the length, in human terms, of those "days", did He?

I'm not keen on majoring in the minors in any case. You tell me that God's "days" are 86,400 seconds long. But they St. Peter s "day" is as a 1000 years, and 1,000 years as a day. You gonna take him to task for saying that?

The thing is, unless God is a trickster and has made the universe He created "look" quite a few millenia older than 6k years, it is in fact just that. And the real downsides to beating the tub for 86,400 second creation, or a flat earth, or a global flood, or any such thing, is that: A) you can't prove it, B) it makes Christians, and Christianity, look goofy, and C) are completely irrelevant to the Christian Faith.

Our Faith is based on God having intervened directly in human history to reconcile sinful human beings to JHimself. To steal a line from William Jennings Bryan, it's about the Rock of Ages, not the Age of Rocks. How long it took, by human reckoning, for God to create the universe has no real bearing on or anything to do with the altogether unarguable facts that:

10 [Christ] was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

It ain't about how long it took God to create the universe, or whether the earth is flat or not. St. Paul said it best: For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. The old saint understood how things work; don't clutter your message with irrelevant stuff. The message is Jesus Christ.

Good luck

essentialsaltes · Aug 30, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
DOGE put Social Security numbers and other data on a risky server, whistleblower alleges
The Social Security Administration said it is "not aware of any compromise" to the server and "remains dedicated to protecting sensitive personal data."

The report, filed by the chief data officer for the Social Security Administration (SSA), Charles Borges, alleges that the actions of multiple DOGE staffers “constitute violations of laws, rules, and regulations, abuse of authority, gross mismanagement and creation of a substantial and specific threat to public health and safety.”

His resignation letter

essentialsaltes · Aug 30, 2025

A New Dawn said:
Is there a reason they shouldn’t face justice in their own country?

For Abrego Garcia, neither Uganda nor El Salvador have jurisdiction over a crime that allegedly took place in the United States.
The same goes for all of these others.

But at least you've backed off your propaganda that this is not happening. It is.

Amo2 · Aug 30, 2025

stevevw said:
It seems everything is based on language meanings which in itself is a dubious basis to determine what someone meant as it changes so often. Especially considering how meanings are changing today in a postmodernist world where the narrative itself is considered the true meaning.

In my debates on this some have defined language such as the word 'submission' itself to mean control and abuse no matter what context based on a egalitarian worldview. So language and word meanings can be conflated to mean something entirely different to the original meaning.

There is much language in the new testament that would appear to the modern ear to mean controlling and abusive and yet I don't think this was at all the meaning in context. For example

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
1 Peter 2:13
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme,

It seems Paul is teaching the church to be subject to a lot of things that today many would say is controlling. It seems submission was a central aspect of being a Christian. Peter even suggests that we should be subject like Christ even when the master is unjust. This would be regarded as promoting abuse today.

All of the above of course being subject to the word of God as over and above any of the positions of authority mentioned by Paul. This is the key to the issue at hand.

Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All of the Apostles including Paul disobeyed all and any declared authorities, when said authorities commanded them to do anything which contradicted a direct command from God and or the teachings of His Word. Unto the punishments or death which they all experienced by command of said usurped authorities. This in and of itself being the major problem of church leaders demanding that they be viewed as our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, especially after and or since they had already in fact become divided by differing beliefs. As in which Bishop or church authority is one to submit to as though they were God himself, when they themselves had differing beliefs and or requirements. This is no doubt why our Lord and His Apostles established the authority of Holy Scripture over and above all others, that all those claiming such divine authority for themselves, might be judged by the Word of God for authenticity and therefore proper submission. Nevertheless, we know from the facts of history, that the wolves the Apostle Paul warned of did enter the church and demand submission to such usurped authority. Yet still, none of the above is the equivalent of a Bishop commanding for himself and those of like mind, to be viewed as though they themselves were Christ or God.

Apart from that stated regarding the submission of wives to their husbands, which had been established immediately after the fall by God himself.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

stevevw said:
I agree there were disputes and all sorts of ideologies surrounding the early church. Even moreso for some sort of authority above all the white noise of competing doctrines to guide the Christian community. Did Christ not establish this from the start. Or did he leave His church unprotected.

I think this goes back to the hermeneutics. As mentioned today some see just the word 'submission or obeying' someone as control. To the early church this was actually a sign or being meek and Christlike and was following the pattern Christ had infused into Christianity.

So at least for the early church before it was corrupted to the point it was overtaken these church fathers like Clement and Ignatius were carrying on what their contemproraries had taught them and witnessed being lived out in the community. They were already like Peter and Paul and John and were not the wolves.

This would be more or less laying the blame for such blasphemy on the laps of the apostles as these fathers were taught by them. That they actually installed wolves instead of overseers. Or that they were decieved while on their watch and they said nothing. That the apostles even promoted this themselves in the Didache.

Yes I agree and this came later. In fact the further the church got away from the realness of the events around Christ and the disciples afterwards the more it drifted away. As though like how nations forget the horrors of war and lose their resolve.

In some ways this was inevitable due to our fallen nature.

I don't this negates that the church needs some sort of leaders with an authority t be able to overseer the church. I think this was the original intention. Paul tells Timothy and Titus to teach, correct and even rebuke for the deification of the church.

Otherwise what is the use of the overseers.

That is one fact we know is true today that there is much division over what these scriptures mean. Which seems a long way from a unified church in mind and spirit.

But I think for the most part everyone wants the same thing. I think there is some sort of need for overseers so long as they are properly qualified in the first place. As it seems almost anyone can fill the role today.

All churches have certain chosen leaders, which is of course necessary, which I do not contest. I do however strongly disagree with your last statement above, which is the main cause of our different views no doubt. Our Lord and Savior, His chosen Apostles, and the prophets all warned of future immense and powerful organizations that would usurp the power and authority which belongs to God alone. Who would be followed by the greater majority of humanity unto persecution of God's authentic followers as has been experienced by God's people and Christ Himself on this earth throughout its history. True and false worship of God and the persecution of those of the former by the latter, began and has continued throughout the entire history of this fallen planet. The majority of even professed believers, have most often been believers in profession only.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Both Cain and Abel professed belief in, and brought their sacrifices before the Lord. Only one though, brought the sacrifice which God required according to the obedience of faith in the Lamb of God alone. Cain's refusal to do so in thinking that the best he had to offer was a better sacrifice than the one the Lord commanded, created enmity between these two professed believers. Which resulted as always, in the persecution of the authentic believer, by the one who merely professed belief while denying the actual authority of God. And so it has been since that time, and will be unto the end. The authentic believer will never be found persecuting those who disagree of differ from themselves, as it is most obvious our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ disapproves of such.

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It is for the above reasons, that I see a danger in the claims and wording we are discussing. Which very real dangers have in fact already played themselves out several times over throughout history in large scale persecutions of bible believing Christians by other professed bible believing "Christians". And what claim and or terms are we discussing, but that certain individuals should be looked upon as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and or God himself? The very claim and issue addressed by Paul himself in the scriptures above. Therefore do I see and determine the danger in an increased call for a supposed laity, viewing their supposed clergy, as though they were God themselves. Which again, none of the apostles ever asked anyone to do regarding themselves, but which our Lord and they all warned against. The very problem of which, being already played out several times throughout the course of history, has been confirmed exactly by such to date. None of which nevertheless, have reached the biblically prophetic global proportions which the books Daniel and Revelation foretell.

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

stevevw said:
There seems a need like in the early church for there to be some authority to sort out disputes. Though also with the consent and agreement of the church.

There also is the need to to not assume authority is automatic and have checks and balances. Paul says that even an overseer can be corrupted but also that there needs to be two or more witnesses as some may bring false accusations.

I think there can be such an authority that is both able to overseer the church and yet be like a servant of the church and people. In fact this is the prime qualification.

I think everything we need to know for the church community is in the scriptures. Christ would not have given part teachings or unclear teachings and entrusted to the apostles to continue to establish the foundation for the church.

I certainly agree that the scriptures are the final word and authority regarding all issues. I also agree that churches need structural authority and discipline. I do not think that there should be only one recognized man or institution of authority apart from Christ and His Word, over and above the many different denominations of this day or any other. I do think that all authentic Christians in any case, need to be tolerant of the differing views of others, and other professed Christians especially. Trying to mold all of Christianity into one fashion, under the authority of one mere man and or human institution, has proved to be very dangerous.

A New Dawn · Aug 30, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
The Trump Administration has charged Kilmar Abrego Garcia with human trafficking, but is seeking to deport him to Uganda (after having already deported him accidentally to El Salvador).

That's just one high profile case, but contrary to rightwing propaganda, ICE has been deporting suspects and witnesses in criminal cases, leading to the suspects escaping justice.

ICE adopts new tactic: Deport before court, removing people facing criminal charges
Suspects and witnesses are being deported without justice being served, prosecutors and legal experts say.
Some suspects in violent assaults and sex crimes are escaping American justice because they're being deported before they can stand trial, according to a number of prosecutors and legal experts across the country.

Across the country, prosecutors, defense attorneys and legal observers say they've seen an uptick in ICE agents choosing to deport criminal suspects, instead of keeping them in custody and producing them for local court proceedings.

"It's not only undermining to the justice system but also impacting community safety," said Adams County District Attorney Brian Mason, who serves a suburban area northeast of Denver.

Kilmer Garcia had previous deportation orders that said he could be deported to any place except El Salvador because his life was in danger from a rival gang. That rival gang is now defunct and so there was no practical reason he couldn’t be deported back to El Salvador anymore. The original deportation order wasn’t withdrawn, so there is no reason he can’t be sent somewhere.

Is there a reason they shouldn’t face justice in their own country? I, personally, don’t care where they face justice, as long as they face justice. How is deporting a violent criminal impacting community safety? That’s just a ridiculous statement. Keeping them here and refusing to prosecute them is what is impacting community safety.

essentialsaltes · Aug 30, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
You really want to go down this road?

These are some individuals, but not the "100% tribe". Nor do even these individuals indicate Biden is the "sharpest ever". "On his feet" is hardly a ringing endorsement.

timothyu · Aug 30, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
Are we following the same path of disobedience of those who came before us Heb 4:11

Psa 119: 126 It is time for You to act, O LORD, For they have regarded Your law as void.

We do it every time we put our will ahead of the will of the Father. The foundation of mankind's world we have made in our own image, is built upon the concept of 'self' and self-interest. Our will ahead of His.

Always in His Presence · Aug 30, 2025

A2SG said:
I don't know who these rapists and murderers you're referring to are, but at least Democrats aren't electing convicted felons who have committed fraud over and over again.

-- A2SG, so at least there is that....

That is the best defense of the actions of Democratic leaderships action?

durangodawood · Aug 30, 2025

o_mlly said:
A poisoned mind is an unhealthy mind, ie., mentally disordered.

Believing wrong things is different from having mental/emotional deficiencies. For instance there were plenty of Nazis or even Bolsheviks who had fully functioning mental and emotional apparatus. The problem was bad understanding of who is the enemy, and wildly misplaced optimism about the possibilities for glory.

Lots of healthy people get caught up in a culture of believing wrong things to the point that they commit what in hindsight are atrocities. History has shown this over and over.

Always in His Presence · Aug 30, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
You're imagining things.

You really want to go down this road?

• Anita Dunn, a senior adviser to Biden, stated that despite physical aging, he remained “fully engaged and clear in his directions and supervision” throughout her interactions.
• Steve Ricchetti, a longtime counselor to Biden, testified that he wanted to “forcefully rebut this false narrative” about Biden’s mental decline.
• Senator Elizabeth Warren defended Biden in multiple interviews, saying he was “sharp” and “knows what he’s talking about,” emphasizing his pointedness and clarity in pursuing policy goals.
• Ian Sams, a former White House spokesman, said in a 2024 MSNBC interview: “When I deal with him, he’s sharp. He’s asking tough questions”.
• Warren also noted in a podcast that Biden was “on his feet” and capable of delivering clear messaging, though she acknowledged that voters have every right to ask questions about age.

Mike Johnson Marks Anniversary Of Biden Dropping Out With 14-Minute Montage Of Dems Insisting He Was Fit As A Fiddle

essentialsaltes · Aug 30, 2025

A New Dawn said:
Contrary to leftist propaganda, nobody is deported prior to receiving due process and just punishment.

The Trump Administration has charged Kilmar Abrego Garcia with human trafficking, but is seeking to deport him to Uganda (after having already deported him accidentally to El Salvador).

That's just one high profile case, but contrary to rightwing propaganda, ICE has been deporting suspects and witnesses in criminal cases, leading to the suspects escaping justice.

ICE adopts new tactic: Deport before court, removing people facing criminal charges

Suspects and witnesses are being deported without justice being served, prosecutors and legal experts say.

Some suspects in violent assaults and sex crimes are escaping American justice because they're being deported before they can stand trial, according to a number of prosecutors and legal experts across the country.

Across the country, prosecutors, defense attorneys and legal observers say they've seen an uptick in ICE agents choosing to deport criminal suspects, instead of keeping them in custody and producing them for local court proceedings.

"It's not only undermining to the justice system but also impacting community safety," said Adams County District Attorney Brian Mason, who serves a suburban area northeast of Denver.

A New Dawn · Aug 30, 2025

Jerry N. said:
The link is very good and explains total depravity doctrine well. Here is a refuting article: REFUTING TOTAL DEPRAVITY

I still contend that both are true and that we can’t or are not intended to understand it. One must act with all the freedom of will we have to seek God and His righteousness, and we must recognize the mercy of God to bring us to Himself through the power of His Spirit. If a man is drowning, and he calls out for help. Then someone hears him and saves him, would he say that he saved himself?

The argument in that article is based on a secular definition of depravity rather than a biblical definition of it. Total depravity, biblically, means total inability. You can’t speak about biblical doctrine using secular definitions because they are part of fallen society, under the same influences as the rest of the fallen world.

As far as your example, the scripture in the article you quoted is a good example of what the answer is. One has to recognize that they are drowning and in need of help before they can call out. An unregenerated person doesn’t recognize that they are drowning to know they need to call out. They are more like the person who thinks they can swim to shore and save themselves.

Konnie King · Aug 30, 2025

Yogi's Ark Lark

PloverWing · Aug 30, 2025

I think a chat thread is a great idea. Thanks for starting it!

I don't know what your church had in mind when they forbade the Singles Bible Study group. Was it something they couldn't directly control, perhaps, since all the leaders were married? I'd have to see the atmosphere of that particular church.

The Southern Baptist church I attended while I was in grad school (and while I was still figuring out which denomination should be my home) had a Singles Sunday School class, and I think they wanted us to pair up with each other and become nice Baptist married couples. Not sure why your church didn't have the same goal.

DragonFox91 · Aug 30, 2025

peaceful-forest said:
I do not know if he has been cursed, but I think God could be allowing it in his life to repent and turn to Jesus for salvation.

That's a good attitude!

rjs330 · Aug 30, 2025

FireDragon76 said:
Jesus pronounced woes on the rich. As a Christian, I follow Jesus, not Abraham.

Yes and Jesus never said to take from the ruch and give to the poor.
Jesus was dealing with heart matters and his kingdom. He was not dealing with government policy regarding taking money from one group and giving to another.

Latest activity

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DOGE put Social Security numbers and other data on a risky server, whistleblower alleges​

ICE adopts new tactic: Deport before court, removing people facing criminal charges​

Suspects and witnesses are being deported without justice being served, prosecutors and legal experts say.​

Mike Johnson Marks Anniversary Of Biden Dropping Out With 14-Minute Montage Of Dems Insisting He Was Fit As A Fiddle​

ICE adopts new tactic: Deport before court, removing people facing criminal charges​

Suspects and witnesses are being deported without justice being served, prosecutors and legal experts say.​

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DOGE put Social Security numbers and other data on a risky server, whistleblower alleges

ICE adopts new tactic: Deport before court, removing people facing criminal charges

Suspects and witnesses are being deported without justice being served, prosecutors and legal experts say.

Mike Johnson Marks Anniversary Of Biden Dropping Out With 14-Minute Montage Of Dems Insisting He Was Fit As A Fiddle

ICE adopts new tactic: Deport before court, removing people facing criminal charges

Suspects and witnesses are being deported without justice being served, prosecutors and legal experts say.