BelieveItOarKnot said:

So maybe you can see it's never just "self." In fact it is entirely our adversary operating in our own sorry hides.

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We became just as capable on a fleshy level to be adversarial to the will of God. All it took was for Eve and Adam to put there will first. The Tempter does just that... temps but can no more control us that the amount we want to lead ourselves into temptation to put our will ahead of the will of God. People fail the will of God every time they refuse to let someone in ahead of them in traffic. They don't need the Adversary working through them. They are willingly selfish themselves.

The End by The Doors. I can't post a link to the video as some of the "lyrics" contain profanity and some of the images from Apocalypse Now are very violent.

fhansen said:

Love is a choice, or it cannot and will not be love. A gift of grace and a choice- to accept and live it, as is the case with faith and hope.

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Blah blah. No scripture. You went back to my post 49 so you wouldn’t have to address my last post. That’s rich.

It's worth noting that mandatory vaccination policies vary greatly all over the world. For instance, 16 of 28 European countries DO NOT have mandatory vaccination policies. Oddly, these places have not turned into mass graves for children despite not mandating vaccines.

Hentenza said:

But your opinion doesn’t count.

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I never said that was just my opinion; I said those were my words, while expressing the basics of the Christian faith in the only way it's ever been known. Yours. OTOH, is private interpretation based on the private intepretations of Reformers who preceded you and, BTW, didn't necessarily agree on the meaning of Scripture even as they all adopted it as their primary if not sole authority, as I once did. and who departed from the truth, some further from, some closer to, but all departing in some manner or another, to one degree or another.

Hentenza said:

I see that you once again ignored the verses I posted.

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Sure I did, and you ignored the verses I quoted. Check out posts 25, 28, 30, 38, 39, 45. Either way, I've been where you are. It takes time and an uncompromising openess to truth whereever it may lead in order to come out from under some of these half-truths and falsehoods.

public hermit said:

Is it wrong to believe/not-believe certain things?

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No I don't believe it is wrong. We all believe/not-believe in many things and we do so without perfect knowledge. I don't think it is possible to wait for "certainty" either in our beliefs or dis-beliefs. "Certainty" is for those who lack imagination. At least that's what I believe.

I suspect it's an easy intel problem to identify drug smugglers to within 90 percent of certainty. There may even be imagery of some of them within US waters...most boats even of the same class have unique features.

We can't tell from the information released whether the Navy ordered the ship to stop.

HolyArmor said:

So if a person rug pulled millions of people in a crypto scam do you think that is someone being used by God to do that? Do you think it pleases God to exploit, steal, and take advantage of people for self gain?

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Everything God does is for His own self gain.

Grafted In said:

That aint the position of a casual onlooker

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Of course not. We need to prove worthy to attend , especially to be in the Kingdom and governed by it, children of the Kingdom. It requires a change of heart from our self-serving selfish ways. Jesus is our lord and King, not our mate. We are not the Kingdom for that is the rule/governance/leadership of the Father.

Muhan said:

Do you actually believe all this you have posted?

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Believe? I Know it to be true.

A New Dawn said:

Water baptism has no magical properties. Baptism is an act of obedience and a statement of belief to testify to the world that you have been born again by Jesus.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

It is clear that belief is what saves, and that baptism is part of your walk of sanctification.

Baptism for the remission of sins is supposed to be a symbolic ritual for the forgiving of sins, but it is not what is taught throughout the NT. John the Baptist baptized his followers for the remission of sins to prepare the way for the One who was coming after him. It is based on Old Testament cleansing rituals so it is entwined with the old covenant. When Jesus started his ministry, and the New Covenant was introduced, baptism changed from the old covenant meaning to the New Covenant response to Jesus making us new, himself. HE cleanses us, not the baptism. The baptism is a response to our salvation, not what saves us.

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And all better see that it does NOT say WATER // HYDOR IN MARK 16:16. !!

Unless you ADD HYDOR to it. !!

dan p

Valletta said:

Saint Justin Martyr stated the following:
“We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

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This is a perfect example of the literary sin of presentism. In short presentism is the tendency to interpret past texts in terms of modern concepts. You are using this text to prove transubstantiation which is the literal change of the elements to Christ actual flesh and blood while retaining the appearance of bread and wine. Let’s examine your interpretation.

1. The Christians in the second century totally despised the thought of eating actual flesh and drinking actual blood. Justin Martyr writes in chapter 12 of his second apology:

“For I myself, too, when I was delighting in the doctrines of Plato, and heard the Christians slandered, and saw them fearless of death, and of all other things which are counted fearful, perceived that it was impossible that they could be living in wickedness and pleasure. For what sensual or intemperate man, or who that counts it good to feast on human flesh,[4] could welcome death that he might be deprived of his enjoyments, and would not rather continue always the present life, and attempt to escape the observation of the rulers; and much less would he denounce himself when the consequence would be death?”

Even Tatian, Justin Martyr’s own student, decries the thought of eating human flesh. This is an excerpt from his “Address to the Greeks” chapter 25.

“Why do you hate those who follow the word of God, as if they were the vilest of mankind? It is not we who eat human flesh --they among you who assert such a thing have been suborned as false witnesses; it is among you that Pelops is made a supper for the gods, although beloved by Poseidon, and Kronos devours his children, and Zeus swallows Metis.”

2. Justin Marty is not describing an ontological change in the elements but a spiritual change of those receiving it. In “Dialogue with Trypho” chapter 41 Justin states the following.

“And the offering of fine flour, sirs," I said, "which was prescribed to be presented on behalf of those purified from leprosy, was a type of the bread of the Eucharist, the celebration of which our Lord Jesus Christ prescribed, in remembrance of the suffering which He endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul from all iniquity, in order that we may at the same time thank God for having created the world, with all things therein, for the sake of man, and for delivering us from the evil in which we were, and for utterly overthrowing principalities and powers by Him who suffered according to His will.”

Here Justin describes the celebration of the Eucharist as a remembrance of the suffering which Christ endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul. Here there is no change in elements and the reason is one of remembrance of Jesus suffering.

In chapter 70 of the same book he states:

“Now it is evident, that in this prophecy[allusion is made] to the bread which our Christ gave us to eat, in remembrance of His being made flesh for the sake of His believers, for whom also He suffered; and to the cup which He gave us to drink, in remembrance of His own blood, with giving of thanks.”

Here he plainly states that both the bread and the cup are given in remembrance of His own blood and the bread in remembrance of His being made flesh for the sake of His believers. There is nothing here about transubstantiation. In fact he is not even talking about real presence. You would think that if Justin was teaching transubstantiation or even real presence that his own student would teach the same.

3. Let’s examine the context of the portion that you posted. You posted chapter 66 but let’s set the scene right before the giving of the Eucharist in chapter 65.

“But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to genoito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.”

Here the elements are brought out and prayers by all present are given finishing with amen. The elements are bread and wine mixed with water. There is nothing about a consecration of the elements to change ontologically to the real flesh and blood of Christ. Even here the emphasis is on a meal of thanksgiving and praise. The food is said to be bread and wine mixed with water and after the prayers and blessings the meal is said to still be bread and wine mixed with water.

Your conclusion drawn from chapter 66 to show transubstantiation or even real presence is clouded by you assigning today’s beliefs to an antique text. There is zero evidence that Justin Martyr was teaching transubstantiation or even real presence. In fact, his own words proves the opposite.

johansen said:

like you're saying the original sin is self awareness. i don't believe that.

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The original sin was putting our will ahead of the will of God, thus learning self-awareness as a result. Sin to this day is the result of putting our will ahead of God and others.

Another one went off the deep end in Maine quite recently----I think it must be something in the hormone treatments that causes some kind of violent reaction in their brains.

Grafted In said:

Can you provide more Scripture. I believe you are wrong.

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This scripture talks directly. How many ways does it need be said? Jesus died to bring about the Kingdom. It's about them. We are secondary, but in out arrogance like to make everything about us.

What we believe shapes what we believe to be moral, and what we believe to be trustworthy. But Truth doesn't need to be sought, it's tautological. It's when we stop trying to find it on our own that we are able to accept it for what it is. Which is where those who don't believe become culpable, since their supposed efforts sto find what is true is in fact attempts to deny the undeniable.

Ridiculous and inane hyperbole aside, I will be interested to see how this affects vaccine uptake.

Florida isn't ending vaccination. They're ending vaccination mandates. I guess the people making these apoplectic predictions must believe that the majority of people are vaccinating their children simply because they MUST. I tend to believe that most people vaccinate their children because they think it's in their best interest to do so, not because they're being forced to do so.

Sure, there are those who refuse vaccines, but that happens now with exemptions for all kinds of reasons. I will be curious to see how the removal of mandates affects vaccine uptake.

ozso said:

Oh please, some on the left claim conservative republican pro-trump Christians are a cult who literally worship him as a christ-like being.

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Some do.

Isn't it odd how all those businesses (bakeries, caterers, venue vendors) who wanted to opt out of having anything to do with "gay weddings" had the full force of the law come down on them hard?

And here all this time I thought those businesses were privately owned. Private. Businesses.

Hence, the government had no business meddling in their affairs.

Sorry about that.

I thought the GOP claimed to be concerned about the lives of children?