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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

But then how otherwise could we avoid responsibility for our actions?
When we are judged both good and bad is found, unavoidable, honestly speaking.

Every thought will be judged. Every word. Every deed.

The bad goes away, permanently. Burned up "like" wood, hay, stubble

Do you think wheat is produced with no disposable byproduct?
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Gibbons Decline & Fall & Christianity

Chapter 28

Final Destruction of Paganism.—Introduction of the Worship of Saints and Relics among the Christians.

Part I

The ruin of Paganism, in the age of Theodosius, is perhaps the only example of the total extirpation of any ancient and popular superstition; and may therefore deserve to be considered as a singular event in the history of the human mind. The Christians, more especially the clergy, had impatiently supported the prudent delays of Constantine, and the equal toleration of the elder Valentinian; nor could they deem their conquest perfect or secure, as long as their adversaries were permitted to exist. The influence which Ambrose and his brethren had acquired over the youth of Gratian, and the piety of Theodosius, was employed to infuse the maxims of persecution into the breasts of their Imperial proselytes. Two specious principles of religious jurisprudence were established, from whence they deduced a direct and rigorous conclusion, against the subjects of the empire who still adhered to the ceremonies of their ancestors: that the magistrate is, in some measure, guilty of the crimes which he neglects to prohibit, or to punish; and, that the idolatrous worship of fabulous deities, and real Dæmons, is the most abominable crime against the supreme majesty of the Creator. The laws of Moses, and the examples of Jewish history, were hastily, perhaps erroneously, applied, by the clergy, to the mild and universal reign of Christianity. The zeal of the emperors was excited to vindicate their own honor, and that of the Deity: and the temples of the Roman world were subverted, about sixty years after the conversion of Constantine.

From the age of Numa to the reign of Gratian, the Romans preserved the regular succession of the several colleges of the sacerdotal order. Fifteen Pontiffs exercised their supreme jurisdiction over all things, and persons, that were consecrated to the service of the gods; and the various questions which perpetually arose in a loose and traditionary system, were submitted to the judgment of their holy tribunal Fifteen grave and learned Augurs observed the face of the heavens, and prescribed the actions of heroes, according to the flight of birds. Fifteen keepers of the Sibylline books (their name of Quindecemvirs was derived from their number) occasionally consulted the history of future, and, as it should seem, of contingent, events. Six Vestals devoted their virginity to the guard of the sacred fire, and of the unknown pledges of the duration of Rome; which no mortal had been suffered to behold with impunity. Seven Epulos prepared the table of the gods, conducted the solemn procession, and regulated the ceremonies of the annual festival. The three Flamens of Jupiter, of Mars, and of Quirinus, were considered as the peculiar ministers of the three most powerful deities, who watched over the fate of Rome and of the universe. The King of the Sacrifices represented the person of Numa, and of his successors, in the religious functions, which could be performed only by royal hands. The confraternities of the Salians, the Lupercals, etc., practised such rites as might extort a smile of contempt from every reasonable man, with a lively confidence of recommending themselves to the favor of the immortal gods. The authority, which the Roman priests had formerly obtained in the counsels of the republic, was gradually abolished by the establishment of monarchy, and the removal of the seat of empire. But the dignity of their sacred character was still protected by the laws, and manners of their country; and they still continued, more especially the college of pontiffs, to exercise in the capital, and sometimes in the provinces, the rights of their ecclesiastical and civil jurisdiction. Their robes of purple, chariots of state, and sumptuous entertainments, attracted the admiration of the people; and they received, from the consecrated lands, and the public revenue, an ample stipend, which liberally supported the splendor of the priesthood, and all the expenses of the religious worship of the state. As the service of the altar was not incompatible with the command of armies, the Romans, after their consulships and triumphs, aspired to the place of pontiff, or of augur; the seats of Cicero and Pompey were filled, in the fourth century, by the most illustrious members of the senate; and the dignity of their birth reflected additional splendor on their sacerdotal character. The fifteen priests, who composed the college of pontiffs, enjoyed a more distinguished rank as the companions of their sovereign; and the Christian emperors condescended to accept the robe and ensigns, which were appropriated to the office of supreme pontiff. But when Gratian ascended the throne, more scrupulous or more enlightened, he sternly rejected those profane symbols; applied to the service of the state, or of the church, the revenues of the priests and vestals; abolished their honors and immunities; and dissolved the ancient fabric of Roman superstition, which was supported by the opinions and habits of eleven hundred years. Paganism was still the constitutional religion of the senate. The hall, or temple, in which they assembled, was adorned by the statue and altar of Victory; a majestic female standing on a globe, with flowing garments, expanded wings, and a crown of laurel in her outstretched hand. The senators were sworn on the altar of the goddess to observe the laws of the emperor and of the empire: and a solemn offering of wine and incense was the ordinary prelude of their public deliberations. The removal of this ancient monument was the only injury which Constantius had offered to the superstition of the Romans. The altar of Victory was again restored by Julian, tolerated by Valentinian, and once more banished from the senate by the zeal of Gratian. But the emperor yet spared the statues of the gods which were exposed to the public veneration: four hundred and twenty-four temples, or chapels, still remained to satisfy the devotion of the people; and in every quarter of Rome the delicacy of the Christians was offended by the fumes of idolatrous sacrifice.
(The History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 3, Chap. 28, pgs. 137 - 140 of the Everyman's Library edition)

It is no secret which institution of history took over the title of pontiff, in establishing as they believe the Supreme Pontiff, the Pope of Roman Catholicism. Who also historically incorporated the royal colors of purple within their institution, and has always and continues to enjoy great material and financial gains from their amalgamations with the various kings, states, and countries of the world. Many billions of dollars of tax payers money being handed over to said institution every year with or without the consent of the people of the various nations facilitating the same, to date.

While seventh day sabbath keepers are accused of being legalists today, for keeping a supposed law of Moses, it was early apostate Christianity that literally established and enforced laws more akin to those of Moses upon the subjects of a professed Christian empire. Neither is the seventh day sabbath called Moses’ sabbath anywhere in scripture, but always and only God’s sabbath. Neither did seventh day sabbath keeping Christians ever force its observance upon any that I know of. While the apostate form of Christianity which did enforce laws more similar to those of Moses upon all their subjects, also forced worship upon the day of their own choosing (Sunday), upon all. The ungodly consequences of uniting church and state.
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Question for my Catholic brothers and sisters

Of Marriage and Orthodox Priests - First Things Interesting point of view from an Orthodox. I can see both sides of it. I'm a confessional Lutheran, but respect the Catholic view. I realize it is a discipline not a doctrine, so it could be reversed. Remaining single and celibate certainly does allow for a pastor to be available 24/7 to his congregation but as the article points out having a wife and children can also be helpful. I mostly like the Orthodox view, but I can also understand the Catholic view.
I've been living in my area for 35 years and I've seen 2 (WELS) pastors that I know leave the ministry altogether. Not for doctrine as they and their families still attend WELS churches but for other personal (I assume- I don't know) problems. Maybe the ministry wasn't for them, or maybe it was too hard balancing family and being a pastor(both have special needs children) In our own church if our pastor can't be available to us for any reason, he finds a fill in.
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

Sure it was
There are those in Chist who do not enjoy political freedom.
in this case. Because it was all part of God's plan to get us to Christ, or get Him to us. None of it can or need be left out. He's the Planner, not us.
Freedom in Christ does not require political freedom.
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Trump calls Epstein disclosures battle ‘a Democrat hoax’

True - but then there is Maxwell's own testimony
Maxwell did not testify in her trial and was seen as a liar by authorities. Her recent claim that Trump did nothing is suspect as she was rewarded for it by moving into a low security prison where she can take Pilates classes and such. It is nicknamed 'Club Fed'.
That is not appropriate for a convicted sex trafficker.

that’s correct according to recently released transcripts. Ghislaine Maxwell, the convicted associate of Jeffrey Epstein, told the U.S. Department of Justice that she never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way” and described Donald Trump as “a gentleman in all respects during the times she interacted with him.

These statements came during two days of interviews in July 2025, which were later made public as part of the Justice Department’s release of the so-called “Epstein Files” to Congress. Maxwell also said she never saw Trump in any “massage setting,” a term prosecutors have linked to Epstein’s illicit activities.
Same comment. She is known as a liar by lawyers and authorities. She takes no responsibility for her crimes. The Trump administration rewarded her with the move to a much nicer prison.
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Evolution conflict and division

I do get what he was trying to say in his example. A lion and tiger can mate and produce offspring, a liger or tigon, depending on the genders of the individual parents involved. But the liger or tigon is always sterile because the two species, while similar enough to mate, are unable to produce viable offspring that can reproduce because of genetic incompatibilities. Horses and donkeys can also reproduce and create mules or hinnies, who, also because of genetic incompatibilities, are largely unable to reproduce.

So, his example here of a hybrid plant forming from two distinct species of the same genus is allegedly an example of speciation, since a new species of the same genus has emerged, and it is able to reproduce on its own, furthering its own species' existence.

However, I don't have the research in front of me to know whether they examined the base origins of the two separate species to determine if they were, in fact, two separate species, and not merely two micro-mutations of the same species that reproduced to create a hybrid species that is, in fact, the same base species with a complement of both sets of mutations, much like taking an African American and a Caucasian, whose offspring might be a darker skinned child with blue eyes, like Vanessa Williams, for example. It can be argued that African Americans and Caucasians are distinct species in the sense of the argument being made of these plants. An anthropologist can distinguish between the two ethnicities even by the bones. For that matter, they can tell you if the person was Oriental, African, Caucasian, or even Jewish. So, micro-evolved traits carried over from what would appear to be demonstrably different species of the same genus, while preserving the ability to reproduce and carry the combined traits forward, would only be considered speciation in a loose sense, which I would equate to be the same as the one suggested for the plants. Humans, despite their micro-evolved traits, all originate from the same source species, and I would wager that the plants did too.
Thanks for your input.

The evolutionists' arguments often reverses the order of logic which asserts that truth resides in a mind that conforms to reality. Not realizing that reality is singular and independent of the thinking mind, their arguments are based on a "reality must conform to their (fallible) minds".

This fundamental error begins with their ambiguous and amorphous definition of the word "species". This ambiguity allows many of their arguments to fail as they employ the fallacy of begging the question. They attempt to force reality to comply with their unproven notions.

This hybrid plant is a good example. As you point out, it is quite difficult to understand the sentence, " ... [Did] they examined the base origins of the two separate species to determine if they were, in fact (in realty), two separate species, and not merely two micro-mutations of the same species that reproduced to create a hybrid species" without a clear and concise definition of the word "species".

We must allow that posters who have invested and dedicated much of their lives to the failed theories of macro-evolution will resort to snarky responses.

I believe we all agree that God initiated life but disagree as to how the diversity of life came about. Was it entirely microbes to man absent God's hand or God's hand that brought about that diversity.

I recommend for serious, open-minded readers watch:
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

That would be set his people free from condemnation of sin (Jn 8:36).
Political freedom is not necessary for freedom in Christ.
Sure it was in this case. Because it was all part of God's plan to get us to Christ, or get Him to us. None of it can or need be left out. He's the Planner, not us.
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Trump calls Epstein disclosures battle ‘a Democrat hoax’

He does sound uncharacteristically desperate if not necessarily guilty. Like he might be protecting "important" people.

But his own little trail of evidence suggests he at least knew what was going on.
Yeah, but when has he ever take the heat for somebody other than himself? Unless maybe he’s protecting his son or sons.
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

Many relationship die between people, but the one with Jesus better stay fresh,... or else.
Yes, any relationship can be violated, dismissied, uncared for, rejected. And man's vital relationship with Jesus, with God, is what the Christian faith is all about.
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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

I believe that, from the foundations of the world, God's will would be to set His people free as part of His plan of salvation.
That would be set his people free from condemnation of sin (Jn 8:36).
Political freedom is not necessary for freedom in Christ.
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The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2

Your breaking it down word for word and adding the clause makes no cognitive sense in the fact that it is too much to address. - just post the verse in plain language and we can talk.

Acts 1:5 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

John's baptism was one of repentance - he baptized Jesus because it was an answer to prophesy

Matt 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”​
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.​
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is an event subsequent to being baptized in water.​
Acts 19:And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”​
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.​

Notice - they had already been baptized in water (John's baptism), then they were subsequently baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus, hands were laid on them and the Spirit came upon them.

Then look here also:

Acts 11:14 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

I would be happy to further discuss if you would extend the courtesy to do so in plain language and complete sentences.
And you. can not read what I write and not UPSET , but is best THAT I back away and I. use English and Greek

words with Case , Moods and Tenses to prove my points. !!

dan p
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What Does the Lord Jesus Mean by “Doing the Will of the Heavenly Father “?

I think you make some good points, but I do not believe we can separate the gospel message from the law of God.
The law of God in the NT is love of our neighbor, as distinct from the lesser law of God in the OT: do no harm to our neighbor.

We are called to the NT greater standard, love of our neighbor, not the lesser OT standard, do no harm to our neightobr.
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Trump calls Epstein disclosures battle ‘a Democrat hoax’

Trump didn't have to go to the island, and that he did not go there does not mean it didn't happen elsewhere.
True - but then there is Maxwell's own testimony

that’s correct according to recently released transcripts. Ghislaine Maxwell, the convicted associate of Jeffrey Epstein, told the U.S. Department of Justice that she never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way” and described Donald Trump as “a gentleman in all respects during the times she interacted with him.

These statements came during two days of interviews in July 2025, which were later made public as part of the Justice Department’s release of the so-called “Epstein Files” to Congress. Maxwell also said she never saw Trump in any “massage setting,” a term prosecutors have linked to Epstein’s illicit activities.
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Trump's plan is working.

I appreciate that Democratic governors in traditionally blue states are taking measures to address this issue. It is possible that this is a direct result of President Trump's involvement. If President Trump's threat to deploy the National Guard prompted these governors to take action, it raises the question of why similar threats have not been made toward red states. Notably, seven out of ten cities with the highest crime rates in the United States are located in red states.
Run by democrats who drag up the overall rate for otherwise red states.
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Trump's plan is working.

I appreciate that Democratic governors in traditionally blue states are taking measures to address this issue. It is possible that this is a direct result of President Trump's involvement. If President Trump's threat to deploy the National Guard prompted these governors to take action, it raises the question of why similar threats have not been made toward red states. Notably, seven out of ten cities with the highest crime rates in the United States are located in red states.
  • Agree
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Is belief/non-belief a morally culpable state?

Hum…. That’s a fascinating testament to the fact that truth is a real “thing”!
Or Real Person/consciousness. It's therefore regarded as an epiphany.

Truth=information=knowledge

This is an objectively true dichotomy ---> Knowledge/ignorance. <--- Objectively, Knowledge precedes ignorance
This is a subjectively true dichotomy ---> ignorance/Knowledge. <--- Subjectively, ignorance precedes Knowledge

Darkness was on the face of the deep and the creation is learning/turning to reflect the Creator.
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Gibbons Decline & Fall & Christianity

The laws of the empire, some of which were inscribed with the name of Valentinian, still condemned the Arian heresy, and seemed to excuse the resistance of the Catholics. By the influence of Justina, an edict of toleration was promulgated in all the provinces which were subject to the court of Milan; the free exercise of their religion was granted to those who professed the faith of Rimini; and the emperor declared, that all persons who should infringe this sacred and salutary constitution, should be capitally punished, as the enemies of the public peace. The character and language of the archbishop of Milan may justify the suspicion, that his conduct soon afforded a reasonable ground, or at least a specious pretence, to the Arian ministers; who watched the opportunity of surprising him in some act of disobedience to a law which he strangely represents as a law of blood and tyranny. A sentence of easy and honorable banishment was pronounced, which enjoined Ambrose to depart from Milan without delay; whilst it permitted him to choose the place of his exile, and the number of his companions. But the authority of the saints, who have preached and practised the maxims of passive loyalty, appeared to Ambrose of less moment than the extreme and pressing danger of the church. He boldly refused to obey; and his refusal was supported by the unanimous consent of his faithful people. They guarded by turns the person of their archbishop; the gates of the cathedral and the episcopal palace were strongly secured; and the Imperial troops, who had formed the blockade, were unwilling to risk the attack, of that impregnable fortress. The numerous poor, who had been relieved by the liberality of Ambrose, embraced the fair occasion of signalizing their zeal and gratitude; and as the patience of the multitude might have been exhausted by the length and uniformity of nocturnal vigils, he prudently introduced into the church of Milan the useful institution of a loud and regular psalmody. While he maintained this arduous contest, he was instructed, by a dream, to open the earth in a place where the remains of two martyrs, Gervasius and Protasius, had been deposited above three hundred years. Immediately under the pavement of the church two perfect skeletons were found, with the heads separated from their bodies, and a plentiful effusion of blood. The holy relics were presented, in solemn pomp, to the veneration of the people; and every circumstance of this fortunate discovery was admirably adapted to promote the designs of Ambrose. The bones of the martyrs, their blood, their garments, were supposed to contain a healing power; and the preternatural influence was communicated to the most distant objects, without losing any part of its original virtue. The extraordinary cure of a blind man, and the reluctant confessions of several Dæmoniacs, appeared to justify the faith and sanctity of Ambrose; and the truth of those miracles is attested by Ambrose himself, by his secretary Paulinus, and by his proselyte, the celebrated Augustin, who, at that time, professed the art of rhetoric in Milan. The reason of the present age may possibly approve the incredulity of Justina and her Arian court; who derided the theatrical representations which were exhibited by the contrivance, and at the expense, of the archbishop. Their effect, however, on the minds of the people, was rapid and irresistible; and the feeble sovereign of Italy found himself unable to contend with the favorite of Heaven. The powers likewise of the earth interposed in the defense of Ambrose: the disinterested advice of Theodosius was the genuine result of piety and friendship; and the mask of religious zeal concealed the hostile and ambitious designs of the tyrant of Gaul.
(The History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 3, Chap. 27, pgs. 106 - 108 of the Everyman's Library edition)

Priestcraft, superstition, holy relics, and veneration eventually leading to the worship of the saints.
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Moral anarchy.

You live in a culture increasingly shaped by moral relativism, where truth is no longer received from divine or natural law but constructed according to personal preference. From a Catholic standpoint, this is moral anarchy—a rejection of objective moral norms that undermines both spiritual integrity and social cohesion. The Catechism reminds you that “freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary” (CCC §1734), but this freedom must be ordered toward the good. Pope Benedict XVI warned against the “dictatorship of relativism,” which enthrones the self as the ultimate measure and corrodes the foundations of communion and justice.

It does seem that a relativistic viewpoint is necessary to some degree in order to make a judgement that some people exercise their freedom responsibly and others do not. This is because an absolutist point of view would uphold without compromise the command to be perfect (Matt 5:48), the instruction that breaking one commandment makes one guilty of all (Jas 2:10), and the conclusion that no one will be justified on the basis of his works (Ga 3:11).
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Is belief/non-belief a morally culpable state?

The way I see it, if I or someone else is questioning their beliefs, we're at least considering we could be wrong. And constantly questioning isn't exactly a productive exercise, since if someone truly engages with it they'll either end up paralyzed and unable to believe anything, or throw up their hands and become a nihliist.

I agree equivocating back and forth between absolutes is unproductive, but it doesn't mean there is no fixed point whereby we can navigate. On the contrary it denotes that there is. Thats why your statement is itself circular reasoning. For example, if it were true that we can't discern truth, that would still be the truth.

Light carries information, darkness doesn't. Therefore, if I am correct in believing that reality dictates what is factually meaningful, then it would be wrong to believe reality is meaningless.

I study semantics particular to psycholinguistics. There is an unproblematic solution. ---> Whatever is Eternal existed before whatever is false. See this below is from another post:

We project bias in the absence of proof. The question 'Why?' is eternally regressive. So, without axioms there can be no logic nor mathematics. This is an axiom ---> Something is true. Another axiom --->something is false. True/false is a fundamental dichotomy.

Fact --->What is True precedes a lie in existence because the lie only exists to undermine what is true.. Positive/negative is therefore a cycle of energy. <--- This is important for sound reasoning when discerning positive from negative.

We therefore can conduct "Subjective semantic analysis" applying objectively true dichotomies. ---> Positive prejudice vs. negative prejudice, Trust/distrust, Reasonable/unreasonable. ---> Hence, it's reasonable to presume someone is innocent until proven guilty and it's unreasonable to presume someone is guilty until proven innocent.
Hum…. That’s a fascinating testament to the fact that truth is a real “thing”!
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Trump calls Epstein disclosures battle ‘a Democrat hoax’

Why is there an assumption that the only place Epstein abused girls was on the island?

He had a mansion in New York, in Manhattan.

Here is an article about what was inside when he was arrested in 2019.


When asking google what happened at Epstein's New York house, this is what comes up:


Jeffrey Epstein used his New York townhouse, located on Manhattan's Upper East Side, to sexually abuse and traffic underage girls between at least 2002 and 2005. Authorities raided the mansion in July 2019, shortly after his arrest on federal charges, and found numerous incriminating items.​
Sexual abuse and sex trafficking​
  • Epstein and his associates, including Ghislaine Maxwell, lured vulnerable underage girls to the mansion with promises of money for massages.
  • The girls were frequently paid in cash and were pressured to recruit other underage girls, creating a "pyramid scheme of abuse".
  • In December 2021, a woman who only went by the name "Carolyn" testified that she was a teen when she met Maxwell at Epstein's mansion in 2001. Carolyn stated that she was paid to give Epstein more than 100 massages over the years, until she was "too old".
  • Jennifer Araoz, another victim, testified that she was repeatedly sexually assaulted by Epstein in the mansion starting when she was 14.
Trump didn't have to go to the island, and that he did not go there does not mean it didn't happen elsewhere.
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