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1Tonne · Sep 15, 2025

Gregory Thompson said:
Back in the day, saying "Jesus is Lord" was compared to the contemporary imperative statement "Caesar is Lord"

By stating "Jesus is Lord" boldly, you were basically asking to be executed.

So cowardice today, might look different than what it did for the original audience .. depending on where you share it.

Yes, in the Roman Empire, saying ‘Jesus is Lord’ could mean execution. But that only underscores the point: if the early church was bold under the threat of death, how much more should we be bold today, when the most we usually face is rejection or mockery? We aren’t risking our lives to share Christ, so there’s even less excuse for staying silent. Cowardice doesn’t vanish just because the danger is smaller; in fact, it exposes our lack of love for souls if we won’t speak even when the cost is so low.

Pommer · Sep 15, 2025

Servus said:
When Jesus said love your neighbor, he didn't mean to put up with, condone or support wickedness and the wicked.

I generally don’t get involved in cross-Christian doctrinal disputes, but this will be a fun thread to watch (should any other people sharing your faith, notices and cares to comment).

Carl Emerson · Sep 15, 2025

1Tonne said:
If someone angers people because they are being deliberately rude or provocative, that is indeed wrong. But let’s be honest, the Gospel itself provokes anger. Jesus enraged people to the point of wanting to stone Him (John 8:59) and kill Him (Luke 4:28–29), and Paul was constantly accused of causing riots simply by preaching Christ (Acts 17:6). The cross is called an offense for a reason (Gal. 5:11). If we think a faithful presentation of the Gospel will never upset anyone, then we are preaching a different gospel; one that avoids confronting sin. The issue is not whether someone gets angry, but why. If it is because of the truth, then we stand in good company with Christ and His apostles.

Scripture never presents evangelism as only an ‘inside the church’ matter. Jesus sent His disciples out into the world, not merely to invite people to watch their services. Romans 10:14 asks: ‘How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?’ That’s not limited to clergy, the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18–20 is addressed to all disciples.
The idea that only laity inside the church or clergy are responsible for speaking directly about Christ does not match the New Testament pattern, where ordinary believers went everywhere preaching the Word (Acts 8:4). Yes, we must not be rude or presumptuous, but silence is not faithfulness. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:20 that we are all ‘ambassadors for Christ,’ meaning each of us represents Him wherever we go.

As for offence, Jesus Himself offended many by simply speaking truth (John 6:61–66). Asking someone if they know Christ personally is not a violation of the Golden Rule if done with love; it’s an act of care. To not ask, to not share, is to risk leaving people in darkness. Friendship, beauty, and worship are good, but the power of salvation is in the Gospel message itself (Romans 1:16).

I’d also add, wearing a cross or attending church, while good things, do not in themselves mean someone is saved. Jesus warned that many will say ‘Lord, Lord’ but not truly know Him (Matthew 7:21–23). Salvation is not in symbols or attendance but in repentance and faith in Christ. That’s why asking ‘Are you saved?’ is not an insult, it’s an invitation to reflect on where we stand with God. - I share the Gospel with believers and non-believers alike.

I agree that the Church should be welcoming and authentic, but Scripture shows that it is the Gospel itself, not ambience, that changes hearts (Romans 1:16). Beauty may attract, but only the Word of God brings life. If we replace proclamation with atmosphere, we risk leaving people impressed but still lost.
In Acts, they met in simple homes made of clay. They did not rely on architecture, icons, music, or ambience to bring people to Christ. If people come and stay only for the warmth of the community, the beauty of the building, or the quality of the liturgy, then those people may be impressed outwardly but have not truly had the inward heart change that only the Gospel produces. A church that relies on these to save people is in big trouble.
Paul himself avoided relying on style, eloquence, or atmosphere, because only Christ crucified saves. "And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified... that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God."

I fully agree that we must show love in deed, and our lives should reflect Christ’s love. But Scripture is clear that love in action alone is not enough. The most powerful form of evangelism is speaking the Gospel, because “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ” (Romans 10:17).
The apostles did not “live the Gospel” into existence; they preached it. Paul said he “did not shrink from declaring… anything that was profitable” but went about “testifying… repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:20–21). He even said, “Woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel!” (1 Corinthians 9:16).
Good works shine as evidence of our faith (Matthew 5:16), but they cannot replace proclamation. If we only love in deed, people may see kindness but never hear the saving message. The highest form of love is to risk rejection for the sake of their soul by speaking the truth about Christ crucified and risen.
Scripture never commands us to 'live the Gospel' as a replacement for proclaiming it. While our actions and love can demonstrate the reality of Christ in our lives, the Bible repeatedly calls us to speak the message of salvation. Deeds and words go hand in hand, but it is the spoken (or written) Gospel that brings salvation.

I agree that Revelation 21:8 primarily addresses denying Christ under threat, but it also condemns the cowardly, those who fail to obey Him out of fear. Scripture calls us to take up our cross daily (Luke 9:23), which includes giving up our lives for Jesus’ sake and for the Gospel (Mark 8:34-35). This daily surrender is a form of living martyrdom; faithful obedience in both deed and proclamation. Martyrdom may be rare in the ultimate sense, but daily obedience and boldly speaking the Gospel are expected of all believers. Fear is not an excuse to remain silent.

Still a little lost as to what you mean. You may need to explain.

Absolutely, following Jesus’ example is vital; we are called to do what we see the Father doing (John 5:19). At the same time, Scripture makes it clear that the Father works through our obedience, including proclaiming the Gospel. Even when we see obstacles or fear rejection, stepping out in faith and speaking the message God has entrusted to us is part of cooperating with Him. Trusting the Father doesn’t mean inaction; it means acting in line with His Word and Spirit, even when it’s uncomfortable.

The seed who's fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

That is not uncomfortable - if anything it is exhilarating.

Pommer · Sep 15, 2025

FireDragon76 said:
This is exactly what authoritarian regimes do, heavy-handed policing of the law against ones political opponents.

And wavers (or pardons) for ”friends”, yes.

Herman Hedning · Sep 15, 2025

NSH said:
There is a book I read online a while back called "wagging the moon doggy" and it shows a timeline of how all the big NASA and moon events are tied to specific political moments. So the news of the moon landings and the various space missions were all used the distract the public from other news and events. It was pretty eye opening when I read it.

The idea that we have never been to the moon is hard for many people to imagine: but those are the people who saw it on the news in real time, not realizing it was a political campaign created in the same style / agency as the covid misinformation.

I think the reason covid become so pervasive was because of the years of experience they already had testing the 'media takeover' with various fake news events about space.

I always find it strange that all focus is put on NASA and the hoaxes they are accused of, totally disregarding that lots of other countries have space agencies and have performed lunar missions successfully. Currently nine countries have landed on the moon and two more have orbited the moon.

Carl Emerson · Sep 15, 2025

Mmmmm... I just shifted to another house today and looking at the conversation it seems to have taken a direction away from the matter raised in the OP...

Have I provoked fruitful discussion or should we return to the topic ?

Pommer · Sep 15, 2025

Servus said:
I would not be the least bit surprised to find out they were made by leftists trying to frame the right. They'll probably all get traced and caught, just like Robinson.

It may behoove your to move away from the “it’s got to be ’the left’s fault’ somehow!” mindset.

Pommer · Sep 15, 2025

rambot said:
It seems like there are a LOT of instances of racialized threats and calls to violence.

It was a white guy who shot him. Super white.
Why are they fighting back and against whom? They don't even know if they can be angry at a leftist about this yet.

Edit:
Here's one
“White men fight back” Protests erupt in Huntington Beach in wake of Charlie Kirk murder - BeachGrit

Other examples exist.

Are we to believe there isn't racism going on here?

Edited for clarity

The link read (toward the end) like a bad film-noire script.
When “bad things happen”, people like to reassure themselves that their fears will be placated, if only [INSERT GRIEVANCES HERE] would [REMEDY SOUGHT].
Some white men are concerned that they’re about to be treated like they’ve been treating others for hundreds of years.

As if that’s something to be frightened about.

Pommer · Sep 15, 2025

Tyler52 said:
Why aren’t you Christian?

Tyler52 said:
why aren’t you a Christian?

I’m not a Christian either.
Do you think that if I became a Christian, that my political and scientific views would change?

FireDragon76 · Sep 15, 2025

I am an INFX. Which means I don't have a strong tendency towards either judging or perceiving.

At least you aren't in the US, you're in the UK, which has more of a cultural appreciation of introverted, reflective types of people.

You mentioned the Enneagram. It could be that your religious orientation or spirituality doesn't actually line up with who you are. Most people with that personality type that harness their gifts productively, do so through a religious community or spiritual practices that focuses on disciplined, often embodied practices that focus on being grounded in something bigger than the self. In the UK, you're more likely to find that in an Anglican or Catholic religious environment.

If you're hanging out in conventional Evangelical spaces, you are going to go against the grain. You have the capacity to inhabit mystery and paradox, whereas Evangelicalism as a whole considers mystery to be destabilizing or harmful, and favors clarity, even if it flattens complexity, nuance, or paradox.

Richard T · Sep 15, 2025

DaisyDay said:
According to them, many were not here on tourist visas, but limited work visas.

The B1 and combination B1/B2 visa — the kind held by several Georgia plant workers — is commonly used for business and tourism-related travel lasting less than six months, especially for consulting technical or scientific roles. A total of 4,906 B1/B2 visas were issued to South Koreans in the first five months of this year, according to government records, a small slice of the 2.86 million issued to all countries over the same period.

Robert Marton, an immigration lawyer with auto manufacturer clients other than Hyundai, said he had relied on B1 visas more in recent years as other programs for bringing in foreign workers had become more competitive.
(linkie)

They had already been chained and shackled. Since South Korea flew them home, there would be absolutely no reason for them to fly handcuffed, in humiliation.

I think the general feeling about the plight of the S. Koreans is outrage, not pity. Many do pity the plight of the poor Hispanic that works in the meat packing plant.

Yeah, I don't think that it will be only the S. Korean government reconsidering investing here.

Thanks for pointing out that some had short stay work visas but in researching I can't find the numbers. Here is one quote.
“We will discuss all measures, including creating a new visa category, establishing a new quota, and various steps to make obtaining a visa easier,” Cho told reporters as he returned home Friday. He said most of the detained workers had ESTAs, while others had short-term B-1 or B-2 visas and L-1 visas. South Korean workers return home after days in detention following US immigration raid

ESTA's are defined here "South Korean companies have been mostly relying on short-term visitor visas or Electronic System for Travel Authorization to send workers who are needed to launch manufacturing sites and handle other setup tasks, a practice that had been largely tolerated for years."
So most apparently had ESTA's a clear violation.

As to shackles going home, should the more wealthy S. Koreans get a break that many others do not get? Migrant deported in chains: 'No-one will go to US illegally now' Here we see Indian nationals going back on planes on handcuffs and leg shackles. perhaps though if they have their own plane this can be foregone?

I think we share similar views, it is not commonsense to export workers helping to build a factory. But I was using it as an example of the different tiers that immigrants face. Not only are their different tiers on how visas are processed or required, but here is an example of Trump giving S. Koreans illegals more mercy than he would most other nations. I would argue that all illegals that are contributing to the USA by working and not committing crimes be given mercy, even amnesty for some that have been here for years. And that if they are returned that shackles and chains for overstaying a visa is way over the top. Certainly we would not expect USA citizens to be treated that way, yet there are Americans that are illegally in countries all over the world.

Here is an example of a former sex offender being deported from Thailand. I would not care if he was in chains but I have yet to see any typical American that overstays their visitor visa treated poorly in Asian or EU nations. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailan...erican-teacher-with-child-sex-record-deported

Long overstays though can warrant detention. According to google's AI.

"South Korea addresses foreigner overstays through a system of fines, detention, and deportation, though it also offers voluntary departure acceleration programs that can mitigate consequences like re-entry bans for those with shorter overstays and no criminal records. Overstayers caught face immediate deportation and a ban, while those who voluntarily depart under amnesty programs may avoid penalties or receive shorter bans, depending on the length of their illegal stay."

It is good that Trump offers self deportation. However, I do think those illegals face re-entry bans. Of course the USA has some stiff requirements for obtaining a legal visa. Such requirements permanently shut America off to many, especially those from poor nations. Anyway, it is good that there is outrage because the US visa system is practically broken. I personally know Americans who suffer, or even refuse to return to the USA because of the treatment of the their foreign spouses. So it is not just businesses that should get improvements the whole system is clunky at best and severely handicapped or discriminatory at its worse.

Strong in Him · Sep 15, 2025

keras said:
7/ Jesus is the one and only Sacrifice for our sins:
True, but God does not change, Malachi 3:6, and He will require thank offerings and sacrifices for inadvertent sins, in the Temple. Ezekiel 43:18 to 46:24, Zechariah 14:16-21, and Daniel 9:27 proves that Temple sacrifices will be made again.

His nature does not change. The way he works definitely does.
Moses was told to build the Tabernacle. Centuries later, Solomon was told to build the Temple and the Tabernacle was not used, or heard of, again.
People were told, and believed, that if they looked at God they would die. In Jesus, everyone looked at God, 1 John 1:1-3.

Jesus is the one and only sacrifice for sin and he has fulfilled the law and the prophets.
All the verses you have quoted to "prove" that animal sacrifices will return, are OT. We are told the kind of sacrifices that God wants; Romans 12:1; Hebrews 13:15.

David Lamb · Sep 15, 2025

PrincetonGuy said:
We have today approximately 3,200,000 men and women who have earned one or more doctorates in one or more fields of science, who are currently employed as scientists, and who endorse the theory of evolution. On the other hand, we have fewer than five men and women who have earned one or more doctorates in one or more fields of science, who are currently employed as scientists, and who deny that the theory of evolution is true.

Fewer than five? What of all the scientists associated with Creationist organisations such as Answers in Genesis?

RabbiJames · Sep 15, 2025

WO CRIMINALS, TWO DECISIONS, ONE SOLUTION: (Luke 23:39-43)

It happened more than 2000 years ago; we all know the story. It was on one of the sadder Passover celebrations, yet the thousands of Passover lambs sacrificed years prior all led to this one sacrifice, the Lamb of God, who would take upon himself the sins of the world. He would accept the curse of sin and death, being "accursed," hanging from the cross, suspended between Heaven and Earth.

Between "God as man" were two criminals, two malefactors, who both received death sentences by Roman authority. Three men hanging on three crosses. Two were guilty as charged, and the other carried the guilt of the other two. Two were evil doers, and the other bore the evil of the other two. All three were suspended between Heaven and Earth. Those in Heaven looked down with heavy hearts, and those on Earth looked up with jeers and prideful hearts.

The Son of Man paying the ultimate price, the price of His own life, His life for ours. Our sin debt paid in full. Yet the scene was not over, not over yet. The criminals spoke, and the Son of Man listened.

"If you are the Messiah, save yourself and us too." Words of doubt, words of self-preservation, "IF" the word of doubt, words of "prove yourself to us." He decided on "IF"

The other spoke: "Are you not afraid of God? Because even you are in that judgment, and we are deserving justly, for as we have done. We are being repaid. But that which is hateful has not been done by this man. Remember me, my Master, when you come into your Kingdom. (Aramaic-English New Testament).

This criminal expressed words of rebuke: "Are you not afraid of God?" words of recognition of sin; "We are deserving justly for what we have done." Words that recognized the Messiah as "innocent and just" (this man has not done that which is hateful (sinful)). Words asking for mercy; Remember me, my Master, when you come into your Kingdom." He recognized Yeshua as the Messiah, whose Kingdom was in Heaven. He decided on "faith," "confession," and "mercy. The Son of Man heard, forgave, and spoke the words of comfort and assurance;

"This very day, you will be with me in paradise."

These two criminals represent the whole world. There is a part of this world that holds on to rebellion and sin. There is another part of this world that cries for mercy, repents, turns back to God, and receives mercy and forgiveness. What a message for this time of year, for the time of "Elul", turning back to God, or turning to God for the first time.

Two criminals, two decisions (one made a wise choice, the other, very unwise). One recognized the only solution, the other ignored the solution. One would feel the love of God; the other would feel the fire from God's wrath. Messiah paid it all, but will you accept his payment in full?

How do YOU choose?

Christsfreeservant · Sep 15, 2025

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.” (1 John 4:1-6 NASB1995)

This is one of those passages of Scripture which must be read and understood in the larger context, in this case, in the context of the whole of 1 John, and in the context of the whole of the teachings of the New Testament writings. Why? Because by itself it can easily be misinterpreted to say something it does not teach in the correct biblical context. For a verbal confession of Christ can be done without any sincerity at all, and it can be faked for the purpose to deceive, to trick, and to lead people astray.

For in the Scriptures we learn of false apostles, deceitful workmen, who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. So they claim to be of Christ, but they are not. And we are to beware false prophets who come to us in sheep’s clothing (disguising themselves as believers in Jesus), but inwardly are ravenous wolves out to deceive the sheep. And Jesus said that not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one doing the will of God the Father. So lip service alone is not evidence.

See: [Matthew 7:15-23; Matthew 24:11-14; Luke 6:26; John 10:1-15; Romans 16:17-19; 2 Corinthians 11:3,13-15; Ephesians 4:11-16; Philippians 3:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22; 1 Timothy 1:3-7; 1 Timothy 6:3-10; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 1 John 4:1-6; Jude 1:1-25]

For we learn in 1 John 1:6-7: “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.” And in 1 John 2:4-5: “The one who says, ‘I have come to know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected.”

And in 1 John 3:7-8,10: “Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.” “By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.” So we need to take this to heart.

So, what we learn from this is that a verbal confession of belief in Jesus Christ, by itself, is not evidence that someone is from God and not from the devil. Especially in the times in which we now live, we must not assume they all are of genuine faith in the Lord, for many false believers and teachers exist among us today. And so many are claiming faith in Jesus, but their faith never results in death to sin and living for the Lord in walks of obedience to his commands, in surrender to his purpose for our lives.

So, this is why it teaches us here that we are not to believe every spirit, but we are to test the spirits (of human beings) to see whether they are from God. And this is where we check the Scriptures as a whole which teach us what to be on the lookout for, which we learn about in the whole of 1 John. For it lets us know that a verbal confession alone is not evidence. But the evidence is in us dying to sin, and in us walking in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, and in us living righteously, all in the power of God.

Gospel:[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

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The World Listens To Them
An Original Work / September 15, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Larniavc · Sep 15, 2025

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You obviously do not understand Islam

You seem to not understand what legal means in the context of the legal power of a court.

Larniavc · Sep 15, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
What facists are being murdered. Only the alleged ones who are branded that way. Like Charlie who was never a Fascist and like Donald Trump who went within a whisker of getting his brains blown out under the continuing slur and propaganda of being a facist

Okay so no fascists are being murdered?

David Lamb · Sep 15, 2025

Godcrazy said:
book of enoch comes in on it, and say it was the watchers that came down on the mountain and procreated. Regarding procreated it is most likely hybridisation genetics. The early church did adhere to the book of Enoch, despite it was not "in the bible" it was regularly referred to

Whatever the Book of Enoch says, it is not part of God's inspired and inerrant word. Some in the early church may have adhered to the book of Enoch, but to do so they would have needed to add to what the Old Testament already included.

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