d taylor said:

Ask this person "how does a person become a born again child of God". If this person answers any answer beside belief in Jesus, then they believe in a work based way to God.

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Agreed. It is by putting our trust in Him. But there are many who call Him Lord and continue in sin, and Jesus says that He never knew them. So, a believer will have actions that show he is a believer. The fruit will be that he loves righteousness. So, through belief we are saved but those who believe will be changed.

PloverWing said:

We mostly discussed whether a list of sins is the best way to draw people to Christ

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We do need to warn people about their sin. (Many Christians avoid this) When doing this, we need to do it with much wisdom and also, gentleness and respect.
Personally, I would not use a sign like this, but by seeing that sign, people may start to think about their sins.
Sometimes, true love is to point out people's faults in the hope that they will leave their sins.

rjs330 said:

Ain't rhat true. We have congresswoman stating they have more allegiance to order countries than they do this one.

The Democrats are giving in to the wild radicals.

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Do you speak Spanish?

Oompa Loompa said:

I stopped reading after "experts say." If we have learned anything over the last 10 years, the so called "experts" have no clue what they are talking about.

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You're right.

We don't need an expert to conclude she was granted a favor in return for ..........

Brightfame52 said:

Okay so you sound like you in the pitfalls.

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Well, yer welcome to yer opinion of course, but I’d classify this Fortner fellow as being in much deeper pitfalls, not to mention silliness.

Yogi Bear

Donald Trump is NOT a pedophile and he is NOT a rapist. To assume otherwise without real evidence is an example of not living in the actual real reality, in my opinion.

Spiritual Jew said:

It isn't confusing at all. Jesus couldn't have been more clear about it.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Jesus very clearly indicated that the gathering of the elect, which is the church (Romans 8:33), would occur "AFTER that tribulation". And what He said lines up with what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 because He talks about the elect being gathered both from heaven, which lines up with Paul saying that the dead in Christ (their souls) will be with Him when He comes from heaven, and from earth, which lines up with Paul saying that those who are alive and remain (on earth) will be caught up with the resurrected dead in Christ when Jesus comes.

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Not only that but the Olivet Discourse is based on a combination of Dan 7 and Dan 9. In Dan 7 the Son of Man comes with the clouds to destroy the Man of Sin and to set up God's Kingdom on the earth. That is pretty clearly Postrib.

Dan 9 talks about the destruction of the "city and the sanctuary" by the "Abomination of Desolation," which in Luke 21 identifies the AoD as the Roman Army destroying Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, and sees the Son of Man returning to gather up Jewish believers, while restoring the nation after an age-long Jewish Diaspora, also called a Jewish "Punishment." That also is clearly Postrib.

Paul adds to Jesus' scenario in the Olivet Discourse the inclusion of the international Church with the Jewish remnant of Christians. When Christ returns he will bring with him all those from all nations who have died in his faith. And he will establish on earth spiritual rule through glorified Christians from all nations. We do not have to agree on everything to agree on some of these other important points.

Montana bar shooting suspect taken into custody week after killing 4: Sheriff​

No real details, but he's been apprehended.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

draw = helkuō = draw or drag

come = erchomai = accompany, appear, grow

Salvation for the Jews had lain with keeping the law in the past. When Jesus appeared, this changed to faith in him as Messiah

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The sense I see here is that belief precedes the drawing and teaching.

Clare73 said:

So the Bible is allegorical in spots, and your're inspirted to spot the spots.

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We see thru a glass darkly. We need to pray and study, and to recognize when something seems revealed and consistent with the totality of the Scriptures and Christian experience.

It is *context* that determines if something is to be taken "allegorically" or "symbolically." If that doesn't appear to be the case, we should take things literally. Sometimes it's just a matter of common sense.

In the case of Israel and the Millennium I've had many arguments with good Christians who think other than the way I do. With them I've argued that the thousand years is not the essential element. The essential element for me is that the Prophets and the Abrahamic Promise seem to require a future era beyond the present era in which both Israel and the Christians nations can finally get their act together.

The fact that this period is given a time period of a thousand years is tangential to the main point of a future era of ultimate mortal fulfillment for the nations. If the end of mortality took place at Christ's Coming, then I don't think nations would exist as such any longer?

2404 said:

There is a difference between being saved and the Elect.
St. Paul talks about sitting in the judgement seat with Christ to judge men and angels.
You can't sit in the judgement seat and be judged at the same time.

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The "elect" are those who have received His Holy Spirit and do the will of the Father. This is when one is still alive. After death one is either present with the Lord or not. Judgment is on the last day. All the elect are with Jesus Christ of Nazareth where He has provided propitiation to the elect. There is no difference between the elect and the saved. They are one in the same.
Blessings

essentialsaltes said:

Trump administration fires McGruff the Crime Dog​

Now, the Trump administration has ended federal funding for a program that in recent years worked to bring McGruff into present-day efforts to protect young people from harm caused by fentanyl and counterfeit prescription pills. Advocates fear any cuts to public education drug programs threaten to reverse progress in the 21st century war on drugs.

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I used to play McGruff at schools, and during Red Ribbon Week did demos at all the schools with our dogs and talked about the dangers of drug use.

Dan Perez said:

And yo u believe that what John wrote is allegory ??

dan p

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No, it was the person who I was talking to that indicated all of Revelation is "allegorical." I agreed with Clare that the book overall is "Prophetic" in genre, and "Apocalyptic" in form. The book is literally filled with symbolism.

But she uses that to claim that the Millennium is to be taken in an "allegorical" fashion. I don't agree. I think it is to be taken quite literally because each prophetic section must be viewed in context. And nothing in the context indicates the Millennium must be viewed as an "allegory."

I'm a Premillennialist. I find the thousand years to be a literal time after Christ's Coming when Israel, as a nation, is fully restored in the political and spiritual sense. Mortal humanity continues on a thousand years past Christ's Coming before the final battle of Gog.

During the Millennium I believe current Christian nations will be restored spiritually along with Israel, who becomes a Christian nation for the 1st time. "The 1st (Israel) shall be last, ie during the Millennium, and the last (Christian nations) will be 1st, ie in the current NT era.

At that time, in the Millennium, Israel and many Christian nations will enjoy unimpeded Christian practice and freedom from international oppression. This is what God promised Abraham: the nation Israel and the nations of faith. They will achieve full expression in a literal Millennial period.

That's why the Prophets promised this time when Israel will finally achieve what she has failed at for so long. But we know now, in the NT era, that the rest of the nations will join Israel in this final glorious international Christianity. My view only....

essentialsaltes said:

I dunno, what was the cannabis industry wearing?

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idk, but it was probably made out of hemp and smelled like patchouli.

now that I think about it, maybe they did deserve it.

Dan Perez said:

And you need to. to read 2. Thess 2:3. , 4 , 5 , 6. 7. , 8 and verse 8 , notice the word COMING.

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I have read. And yes, it's a COMING -singular. There's nothing in the text to suggest that we need to split his "coming" into two separate events. And as I've noted in Revelation 2:10 which mirrors Revelation 12:11- the body of Christ will in fact be here.

iluvatar5150 said:

Is this just poor reading comprehension on your part or do you really prefer to blame victims?

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I dunno, what was the cannabis industry wearing?

PloverWing said:

He feels he needs to warn people about God, and I can see that as a caring act. I don't know if he came to any understanding of me or my point of view.

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What is your point of view and how does it differ from his?

Trump recently stated egg prices dropped 92% yet wholesale prices have clearly increased.
Yet some MAGA supporters accepted the assertion because of their blind faith in Trump.

This is an example of cognitive dissonance. When an individual has a strong faith which is brought into question by contradictory evidence, the individual experiences internal conflict and reacts negatively such as going into denial mode.

This type of behaviour has been observed in this thread.

rjs330 said:

Under the new covenant there remain morality laws.

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For sure. As I noted, evolving morality doesnt mean everything gets turned upside down. For instance, its completely reasonable that murder remains forbidden.

chevyontheriver said:

The naval Battle of Lepanto and the Siege of Vienna were two pivital events that kept us from all being Muslim.

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This would imply that a certain amount of martial spirit is required by Christians in order to preserve their societies. I agree completely, if not for the Reconquista, Siege of Malta, Battle of Tours or numerous other battles which defended Christian society from the encroachment of Islamic society we would not be Christians today.

I suppose the problem i have is with a certain subset of pacifist Christians who insist that we have no duty to defend one another or excercise power in our own interest. They seemingly would consider fighting against the Muslims as the worst thing Christians could have done and evidence that those who did fight against the Muslims as non Christians.

chevyontheriver said:

Islam was never not a military and political movement to take land and peoples by force.

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Absolutely. It successfully took over and repressed Christianity in the regions it conquered.

Always in His Presence said:

FYI - it is a show of respect to wear a Yarmulke in a synagogue or Jewish Holy Place

Biden used it to raise money -

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The image you showed is of a product sold (and I assume made) by a company called Judaica Place:

Do you have any evidence that Biden profited from this? Because they also sell Trump Vance yarmulkes:

Always in His Presence said:

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The yarmulke in your picture is not the campaign-branded one to which you linked. You can see the back of Biden's yarmulke when he takes and leaves the stage:
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Praying to God that he heals you from your trauma and make a full recovery.