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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Pardon For Ghislaine Maxwell?

I don't think there are people, even here in this forum, who do not think Trump won't pardon the child sexual predator.
Trump et al at every step has either helped or looked the other way not with just her, but Epstein and the Israelian official arrested for underage solicitation. ...but hey, there are pearl clutching drag queens reading books to children.
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Newsome pushed back against Democracy to achieve his political goals

Ikr?

In the red zone LOW QUALITY for accuracy - like FOX.

And on bias? Somehow they're just a smidge further right than FOX - and I didn't think that was possible!

When so many Americans choose to watch Fox as a source of "news" - let alone all these other amazingly biased and extremely low brow online sources - is it any wonder that America is struggling to even agree on which reality they live in?

Politics used to be disagreeing about what to do about a crisis. These days it's disagreeing that they're even is a crisis, what the crisis might be, and basically which reality we live in.

According to the Republicans there's no climate change, vaccines are some sort of conspiracy, immigrants are a source of all the crime in America, and Donald Trump won the 2020 election!

WND made me laugh at first - but just 5 minutes later and it's so sad
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How much of your income are you willing to have taken for taxpayer funded healthcare.

Sorry for the bad link.
Michelle Obama fights GOP attempts to weaken school nutrition rules - CBS News Michelle Obama fights GOP attempts to weaken school nutrition rules

The link about the GOP encouraging smoking in the Capitol is factual.
The real reason Michele Obama's school lunch initiative was scuppered was that the three big food service companies that supply most school lunches didn't like it.
it could be 300% higher - like in Australia


Search Assist
For the 2025 financial year, the personal income tax rates for Australian residents are as follows: 0% for income up to $18,200, 16% for income between $18,201 and $45,000, and 32.5% for income between $45,001 and $120,000. Income over $120,000 is taxed at higher rates, reaching up to 45% for income over $190,000, not including the Medicare levy of 2%
I'd have to make 600k+ a year to pay that much in taxes -

and I'm paying too much!

Here is a challenge:

Name a country that has 'free' health care that has a personal income tax at the same level or lower than the US.

There is no such thing as free healthcare - if the government is paying for it - you, the taxpayer is paying for it.
Yes indeed, and despite the denials from the Left, the Sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It looks like you will have to explain that to them, too.
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Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

Proponents of this doctrine believe that once a person with a sincere heart truly confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior, he is guaranteed Heaven. They believe that from that moment on, God will hold onto that believer and nothing — not even the person's own free will — can cause him to forfeit his eternal standing with God.
I sense that I have eternally security in Christ. But the characterization above resembles my views only in a cartoonish way. This doesn't give me much reason to read the pros and cons that follow.
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How much of your income are you willing to have taken for taxpayer funded healthcare.

He's paying too much.
it could be 300% higher - like in Australia


Search Assist
For the 2025 financial year, the personal income tax rates for Australian residents are as follows: 0% for income up to $18,200, 16% for income between $18,201 and $45,000, and 32.5% for income between $45,001 and $120,000. Income over $120,000 is taxed at higher rates, reaching up to 45% for income over $190,000, not including the Medicare levy of 2%
I'd have to make 600k+ a year to pay that much in taxes -

and I'm paying too much!

Here is a challenge:

Name a country that has 'free' health care that has a personal income tax at the same level or lower than the US.

There is no such thing as free healthcare - if the government is paying for it - you, the taxpayer is paying for it.
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Greta Thunberg alleges torture in Israeli detention after Gaza flotilla arrest

Is there a news article that summarizes what was supposedly on the boats? (I'm not downloading a 2gb file from a random google drive link)
Here are a couple of articles. One mentions 500 tons was collected, but it appears not all of it could be carried on the boats, and another puts the value of the aid that was on the boats at $110,000.

How the Gaza aid flotilla used cameras and data to win global attention

The organisation had huge support from the start. When it sent out an invitation for people to participate, it received 20,000 applications, Faras said. In Italy, a charity called Music 4 Peace began collecting aid donations, with a target of 40 tons. In five days they collected more than 500 tons.

Across Europe, missions started to prepare. The Greek contingent sourced 25 boats from across Europe. When it asked for donations, it received more than it could carry.


Gaza Aid Flotilla Says IDF Intercepted Its Boats; Israel Vows Activists' Swift Deportation

The flotilla reportedly carried humanitarian aid worth over $110,000, including medicines, respiratory equipment, and nutritional supplies, intended for Gaza hospitals.


Israel claims it was only 2 tons.

Israel deports Greta Thunberg and 170 other Gaza flotilla activists

Israeli authorities said they enforced a legal blockade and called the flotilla a "publicity stunt" because it was transporting only two tons of aid in total.


A few images from the file I shared:

flot2.jpg


And while I'm not going to download a file from an unfamiliar google drive link, if the load of supplies is as big as your claiming, that means they wasted other peoples' money and resources as well that could've been used for other more realistic endeavors.
According to Israel's Foreign Minister, the aid will likely be delivered to Gaza, so not all may be lost.

'Greta and her friends are safe and healthy,' ministry says as Israel intercepts Gaza aid flotilla

Prior to the interception, Israel's Foreign Minister Gideon Sa'ar called the flotilla a provocation and warned them to stop and transfer their aid through other channels into Gaza.

"Greta and her friends are safe and healthy," the ministry stated. It reiterated its offer to transfer the aid to Gaza through other channels.



Either way, it still seems like this was a vanity project "for show".

40 unarmed sailboats thought they were somehow going to sneak past one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world into an active combat zone?
The odds of successfully breaching Israel's blockade were slim at best, but this attempt and others like it do make the headlines and bring attention to the blockade and its role in adding to the suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza.

I'm saying this as a someone who's revised their viewpoints and become much more "Israel-critical" over the past 3 months -- "Professional protestors" and "media harlots" need to stay way from this situation and not do stupid stuff to "prove some sort of point". It delegitimizes real criticisms.
I don't know, activists with name recognition are more likely to get news coverage than those without, which in turn brings more attention to the cause. For example, there have been more than a dozen flotillas that have attempted to breach Israel's blockade since 2007. Most people probably didn't hear about a majority of them, but a lot of people have heard about the last two because of Greta Thunberg's involvement.

If I said "I'm going to try to sneak canned food and medicine into North Korea by way of 40 sailboats, you want to chip in?" would you do it, or would that charity be put to better use domestically or some other international effort that had better than a 0.000000001% chance of success?
There have been a few humanitarian projects that I've devoted my time and money to in the past that I knew going in had little chance of achieving the desired results, so I would seriously consider giving to a project that I'm passionate about regardless of what the chance of success is. Even failed attempts at helping others have value in my opinion.

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Three ICE detainees shot, 2 dead, at ICE facility in Dallas; suspected shooter committed suicide.

Here's the what he said:

"That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world."

asserting on Truth Social that "illegal immigration is poisoning the blood of our nation. They’re coming from prisons, from mental institutions — from all over the world.”
Slander is when a person says something bad about others without any evidence. Devil =accuser/slanderer

There's no evidence that the illegal immigrants are coming from mental institutions and prisons. The above in bold qualifies as slander.
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Border Patrol calls for help, Chicago PD does not respond

Chicago police records shared with the Sun-Times show that a Border Patrol agent had called for assistance, reporting that roughly 30 agents had been “surrounded by a large crowd of people.” But police officials weren’t sent to help, the records show.
Given that they have a history of crying "wolf" and making phony 911 calls, it's no surprise that the PD ignored them.
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NSPM-7

Also included are things deemed "anti-Christianity". How far would that go?
Maybe this counts as anti-Christian?

In Chicago, clergy and faith-based protesters say ICE is threatening their religious freedom
(RNS) — Despite potential danger, religious leaders and faith activists have been a visible presence at Chicago-area ICE protests, some waving signs with slogans such as ‘Love thy neighbor’ and ‘Who would Jesus deport?’

Last month, the Rev. David Black stood in front of a Chicago-area U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility and spread his arms wide. Adorned in all black and wearing a clerical collar, the pastor looked up at a group of masked, heavily armed ICE agents on the roof and began to pray.

“I invited them to repentance,” Black, a minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA), said in an interview. “I basically offered an altar call. I invited them to come and receive that salvation, and be part of the kingdom that is coming.”

But when Black began to lower his arms a few seconds later, the agents responded to his spiritual plea by firing pepper balls, or chemical agents that cause eye irritation and respiratory distress, video footage shows. One struck Black in the head, exploding into a puff of white pepper smoke and forcing him to his knees. Fellow demonstrators rushed to his aid, and as the pastor rubbed his face in pain, the agents continued to fire.

“We could hear them laughing,” Black said.

Dozens of faith groups and denominations have also filed lawsuits challenging Trump’s various immigration policies, and the treatment of religious demonstrators at the Chicago facility has become a legal flashpoint. Black is listed as a plaintiff in a lawsuitfiled this week against Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem alleging violations of the First and Fourth Amendments. Although most of the plaintiffs are journalists, Black is named as one of multiple clergy and faith-based demonstrators who, lawyers argue, have fallen victim to violence that violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

But DHS continued its negative characterization of protesters on Friday (Oct. 3), when Noem visited the Broadview facility. In a speech to agents recorded by right-wing activist Benny Johnson, the secretary argued the protesters outside the facility were “advocating for violence against the American people” and were “victimizing people every day by the way that they’re talking, speaking, who they’re affiliated with, (and) who they’re funded (by).” [I note that none of those things are violent acts that 'victimize' anybody.]

[same guy, but apparently a different incident]

1759936119402.png
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The Schumer Shutdown

Maybe they feel that retaining health care subsidies for those who need it is worth it.

-- A2SG, though, had the GOP been willing to negotiate, it needn't have happened this way....
No, it did not need to happen this way - it could have happened in November when it was originally scheduled and agreed upon - hmmm.. why the need to change? I wonder.
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram

The displaying of violence

I live in the United States and I've spent way too much time analyzing the economic system here. It looks like it's collapsing. It's not a very productive exercise.
I just completed a new version of my work/hobby, that aims at finding balance for an articulated tricycle. The concept of cathedral guided my researches, as you can see on the following picture, which i hope can reach both balance and stability.
The tricycle should, i hope, perform gardening or leisuring functions.
Tricycle en cathédrale.jpg

i hope, too, this device can allow healthy competition at human scale, without fossil fuel in the equation. May be you would share this hope
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Border Patrol calls for help, Chicago PD does not respond

Although I am not Catholic, I agree with the Pope on these matters because he articulates principles that are consistent with biblical teachings.

A biblical perspective holds that abortion is considered a sin.

According to New Testament teachings, the death penalty has been abolished in favor of mercy and forgiveness.

Biblical principles also assert that supporting inhumane treatment of immigrants is inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus.
Supporting inhumane treatment of anyone is inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus.
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The Brokenness of Christianity

I suspect in the end, all of us will learn we were wrong about something.
100% agree with this and that's been my stance in the last few years. I do not think there is a single denomination out there that is 100% accurate. This is why I've categorized myself as non-denominational because I want to just read the scriptures and talk about whats in it and not stick myself into a box. I end up agreeing to various topics from various different denominations and hell, I even agree with Jehovah's Witnesses on certain points even though a lot of people don't accept them as "Christian". My stance is, does the bible back it up? Then that's where I'm at and I'm not worried if the Baptists agree with me or if it aligns with the Presbyterian doctrine.
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How much of your income are you willing to have taken for taxpayer funded healthcare.

I remember how former NYC Mayor Bloomberg was reviled for his attempts - no-smoking laws, bike lanes, soda size restrictions, etc. Michelle Obama's crusade against childhood obesity was also mocked.
People will need to stop eating so much fast food (which, today, is not the same fast food as 60 years ago) and start cooking at home more.

That's going to require a full overhaul even of family relationships. And the food supply.
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

And those who persevere in remaining in Him to the end, producing good fruit, overcoming sin, doing good, will fully realize that life that begins in nascent form in the here and now. They will have shown themselves to be good soil; they will have shown that the verses you've quoted along with others actually apply to them. Until then it's all just talk.
I think it is more than just talk. There was a Catholic lady from Italy on this site, or maybe a different site, that seemed to speak for the Catholic Church. She corrected one person and said something like this: "Do not misrepresent Catholicism. We believe that we can know that we have eternal life right now. We just can't be sure we will possess it to the end." Is that the sentiment you are expressing here? Or are you saying there is no way to know we have His life in the here and now?
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