zippy2006 said:

If we are using that definition, then is someone who thinks rape is always intrinsically wrong a moral absolutist? Yes or no?

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B: You asked earlier if rape was wrong. By rape you mean..?
A: Sexual intercourse without consent.
B: So it's sexual intercourse in that context.
A: Yes. The woman didn't give consent.
B: So that was the context of the alleged crime.
A: Correct.
B: And with regard to the circumstances?
A: He forced himself onto her.
B: So those were the circumstances of this alleged crime?
A: Yes.
B: And to be clear, you want an answer as to whether that act was absolutely wrong.
A: Yes.
B: May I refer you to the definition of absolute morality which you tendered earlier. Can you read the highlighted section?
A: '...certain actions are intrinsically right or wrong, regardless of context, culture, or circumstances.'
B: Yet when I asked you if you'd given due regard to the context, you answered 'Yes'. You gave the specific context. Quote: 'She refused consent'. And when I asked you if you'd given due regard to the circumstances, you answered 'yes'. You gave the specific circumstances. Quote: 'He forced himself upon her'. So you regarded both context and circumstances in determining, in your opinion, whether the act was morally right or wrong. So it plainly wasn't 'regardless of context, culture or circumstances', was it...

B: Your honour, whether the act was right or wrong was plainly determined with due regard to both context and circumstances, as admitted by our learned friend. The determination was obviously relative to those factors. So it cannot be a case of absolute morality as that requires a determination regardless of both context and circumstance. I thereby move to dismiss, your honour.

H: Granted. Case dismissed.

Strong in Him said:

We don't have to go through life thinking, "have I done enough/achieved enough/believed enough to be given eternal life?"

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But we do have to go thru life as a righteous, faithful believer. We must pass thru many tests as 1 Peter 4:12 says.
Our name CAN be erased from the Book of Life. It IS possible to lose your Salvation. Psalms 69:28. OSAS is not true.

I know of several people who were converted, very sincerely, but fell away. back to their old unrighteous and criminal ways. They are doubly guilty, and their fate is annihilation.

Carl Emerson said:

Personally I think a big part of the problem is that Churches have lost touch with the healing grace available through the Cross and abdicated responsibility for the flock to 'professional services'.

Elders are not seen as the 'go to' source of healing prayer because of poor or little biblical teaching.

The ministry of Jesus cannot operate in fellowships that have lost touch with the reality of the healing power available through the Cross and become a social event commemorating a faith that once was.

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Most of what you’ve written in this thread is nothing more than toxic, over-spiritualized nonsense that does nothing but shame people into not seeking help for legitimate medical conditions. Stop.

That is because Christianity is full of followers of the Christianity they have created and not believers of the promises that God has given.

I would not crawl out of bed to hear what 95% of what, these churches are teaching.

BCP1928 said:

DEI has nothing to do with socialism or single payer health care.

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Hard socialism is Marxism and that is exactly the DEI ideology. The 'E; representing 'Equity'. That is that there should be equal outcomes for all. Classic socialism.

BCP1928 said:

Nor does trans ideology.

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Believe it or not in a strange way it is related. Thats why we see Queers for Palestine and Hamas. Everyone is a victim of the Colonialist and white supremicists and cis norms of the oppressors. Its all part of the Marxist ideology that the more extreme Left adheres to.

Thats why Gretta turned her attention for the bad whites who are polluting the world to the Palestinian andf Hamas cause. Its all related and all seen as oppression of the minorities by the elites and colonialists and all very Marxist and socialist.

BCP1928 said:

Your conservatives supported gun control?

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Heck yeah they brought the laws in. John Howard then conservative prime minister in 1994 brought in gun laws and had a massive buy back on guns.

BCP1928 said:

Single payer just means that a single entity will cover your health care costs--the government, usually. The term is used in contrast with our present system where there are numerous insurance companies to interact with.

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Single payer sounds silly anyway. If you restrict the payer to one payer then they have a monopoly and can charge what they want. Whereas allowing the government or competition in the market for any health insurances pushes the costs down.

Anyway you seem to have similar national health cover. So anyone can go into a hospital emergency and get help.

BCP1928 said:

It sounds like you didn't make the mistakes we did. What happened is that we bundled too many issues together. The culture war issues--DEI, CRT, LGBT, etc. with the economic and foreign policy issues. There is no room at all in our system for, say, a pro-life politician who favors gun control.

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Thats the problem then. You are breaching your own long held principles of freedom of speech and religious belief. Guns is a different issue and one for the US that goes back to their pioneering days. Its in their DNA regardless of political or religious affiliations and a hard thing to remove.

stevevw said:

So now your appealing to politics to explain how a human can defy reality. It doesn't matter if your indigenous or anglo, protestant, catholic or scientology lol. A human cannot see to that level of precision in the first place.

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That's why they measure things they are working on.

stevevw said:

Yes just like we know that a craftman today cannot achieve the precision of precision tooling and thats why we use machining. Its nothing person but reality.

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I can, and have, worked with hand tools to +/- 0.0001" It takes patience and time, but it can be done.

stevevw said:

Theres a threashold where its beyond humans. Not because they are bad or wrong or less worthy or not good craftsman. But because its technically impossible. Humans don't have micron level eyesight or senses in their fingers that have detectors on them that send a signal that the precision line has been reached lol.

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That's why they measure things they are working on. The ancient Egyptians did it, too.

stevevw said:

Everyone recognised that precise symmetry and circularity is achieved by a lathe. Is that denying the individual craftman that a lathe and not his freehand naked eyes or feel could achieve such precision. If its good enough to accept that the tech helped achieve it then why not the entire vase.

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Working "freehand naked eyes or feel" is not what is being suggested. Nobody has suggested that..

Didst thou starteth the fire?

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rjs330 said:

It's not the only place they are and not yhe only place they have been violent. Heck we have leftist politicians talking about putting bullets in opponents brains and wishing their children are killed.

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Never had right wingers be so offensive have we?

rjs330 said:

We have a LARGE amount of leftists who support political violence and assassinations.

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And look how it's panning out.

Charlie Kirk Fan Vincent Battiloro Stalked and Brutally Murdered Two Girls After a Livestream Rant
his name can be found on many other news sites if this one doesn't pass muster.

rjs330 said:

So Im really wondering who should be considering leaving and why and who is really causing problems here.

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In Portland, almost nobody, almost no where. No reason to send Americans against each other; Just because your president wants to.

It's shocking what folks are willing to make America look like.

SabbathBlessings said:

Got it. So because Jesus lived in the "OC" according to you, we do not believe or follow His teachings, He was talking to "other people" . He is not our example to follow because He lived in the "old covenant" despite clear Scripture 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

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Well, if God gave a contract with someone else, it wouldn't be binding on you, would it? Even if you were told about that contract so that you can learn something about contract law, it still wouldn't apply directly to you, would it?

You completely ignore the fact the Old Covenant was given to Israel, and that Paul argued the requirements of the Law were nailed to the cross. Paul argued repeatedly that the OT Law does not apply to Christians.

This is not "opinion." This is what Paul taught and what most Christians see as his teaching. To call it "opinion" is ludicrous, since your view would be no different. Then what is your point, that you use Scripture and I don't? On the contrary, I use Scripture as much as you do. But you seem to argue against Scripture by using Scripture!

So, when I say that Jesus spoke while the Old Covenant was still in effect, what about that wasn't true? It has nothing to do with whether we can learn from what Israel experienced under the Old Covenant. The fact is, NT teaching informs us that we are *not* under the old contract, and you are very wrong to imply or argue that we are!

SabbathBlessings said:

The New Covenant according to you, does not contain Gods Laws despite what God said the NC is Heb8:10

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You've heard me explain this, but you want to remove what I said in the interest of focusing on one small Scripture, when you don't do that yourself. I said that the spirituality and the morality of God's Law preceded the Law, existed within the Law, and post-dated the Law, and is resident in the New Covenant in the form of Christ's work--not our own.

We participate in it as a free gift. But he succeeded in fulfilling it on his own such as he cannot be delegitimized or invalidated in his work. We could never claim to do that. We can only participate in it as a free gift. Following the Sabbath Law is not a free gift. It is external law which will not accomplish Eternal Life for any one of us.

SabbathBlessings said:

Like I said one can't reason with opinions which is all you provided yet again over the clear Scriptures

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I think you know that's dishonest. I've given you plenty of Scriptures, and everything you've given me is opinions, as well. Obeying the Sabbath Law will never cover over your personal sins. You need to abide in Christ for your spiritual life and Salvation.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Actually the devil killed Jesus, just so ya know

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So when you sleep with your neighbours wife, you just say; 'The Devil made me do it'!

The Jews belong to the synagogue of Satan and they did his bidding. They were punished by conquest and exile in 70 - 135 AD
But their continued rejection of Jesus, will be punished by a third depopulation by death and exile. Ezekiel 20:14, Jeremiah 12:14, Matthew 3:12

BCP1928 said:

Why? Does measurement of the work as the craftsman proceeds require more skill than you will allow someone who is not a product of anglo-Protestant culture?

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So now your appealing to politics to explain how a human can defy reality. It doesn't matter if your indigenous or anglo, protestant, catholic or scientology lol. A human cannot see to that level of precision in the first place.

BCP1928 said:

Yes, it's all speculation. But depite that, you know for sure that whatever methods or tools were used they could not achieve the results observed if they relied on the skill of the individual craftsmen.

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Yes just like we know that a craftman today cannot achieve the precision of precision tooling and thats why we use machining. Its nothing person but reality.

Theres a threashold where its beyond humans. Not because they are bad or wrong or less worthy or not good craftsman. But because its technically impossible. Humans don't have micron level eyesight or senses in their fingers that have detectors on them that send a signal that the precision line has been reached lol.

Everyone recognised that precise symmetry and circularity is achieved by a lathe. Is that denying the individual craftman that a lathe and not his freehand naked eyes or feel could achieve such precision. If its good enough to accept that the tech helped achieve it then why not the entire vase.

ThatRobGuy said:

Perhaps it's different in Australia, but I don't perceive there being much a middle ground over here on the issue at the moment.

We still have certain states that declare themselves to be "Trans Refuge" states (like Minnesota, home of Gov. Walz who signed the bill for it), where if a minor travels to Minnesota to receive affirming treatment, and the parents try to get them back, the state of Minnesota will refuse to do so, and bars state courts from complying with requests from authorities in other states. (which seems like it flies in the face of the full faith & credit clause of the constitution, but that's a different aspect)

"Middle ground" positions seem to exist only briefly, and then get pushed over into the "right wing" category by progressives.

I would be an example of that.

In the context of this topic.

My position was/is:
There are two genders
There are some people who have a dysphoria in which they feel like they were born in the wrong body
I'll be polite and address them as the opposite gender if it's clear that that's how they're trying to identify
They can use whichever bathroom they want, I'm not concerned about where people poop
Special considerations do need to be made for changing facilities and sports
Minors shouldn't be undergoing these kinds of treatments
Clinical due diligence needs to be exercised to make sure we're separating the "fad" component from actual cases of gender dysphoria, there shouldn't be such a thing as a "fast tracked transition" (socially or medically)

That was my position before, and that's still my position.

My position would've been considered "centrist" (or even a touch center-left) in 2016. But it's been perpetual moving of the goalposts ever since then and now my position gets labelled as "right wing regressive" by the same people today.

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No, your position is merely inaccurate. Most trans-gender individuals are not gender dysphoric, nor are they"faddists" although I am sure some exist.

ThatRobGuy said:

Look how much the pronoun rules changed

It went from
"You have to respect which of the two sets of pronouns they want to go by based on which of the two genders they identify with"
to
"Well, actually, there could be more than two, so you'll need to ask people which set they prefer"
to
"Actually, you can't use the word preferred pronouns anymore" ('preferred' is offensive, because it implies it's a choice Ze/Zir is who they are)
to
"Pronouns can change frequently, so you'll need to regularly ask people what their pronouns are"

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Where did this occur? What kind of workplaces?

ThatRobGuy said:

That was another key distinction between the movements advocating for sexual orientation vs. gender identity.

I don't recall ever being asked at a work conference to introduce myself with (or wear a nametag or Zoom meeting notation advertising) my sexual proclivities.

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No, one does not generally include such information on name tags. I suppose you could put "Friend of Dorothy" under your name.

ThatRobGuy said:

The topics I've seen on social media have ranged from
"how low class it is that he'd disgrace the white house south lawn with a low brow UFC bout"
to
"look how snobby and over-the-top that ballroom is that he's going to be building on the south lawn"

Where's the happy middle ground? Obviously it exists somewhere between MMA and swanky Ballroom dancing...


You mentioned the concept of "standards"...

I think that's a valid point. And I'm not even denying that there could be tit-for-tat politics behind some of it.

Would it be fair to say that between 2015 and present, Democrats have taken some actions that either directly or indirectly conveyed the notion of "we don't care about your standards" to conservative and non-college educated people?

Especially with the backdrop of them engaging in defenses and promotions of things that wouldn't even meet the so-called "fancy standards" if not being done by someone they deemed to be in an "allied group".

What I mean by that is
Telling conservatives "sorry, but your outdated religious traditions, traditional values, and your decorum demands are outdated and irrelevant... we should be holding ourselves to a more elevated, modern-thinking standard... now if you'll excuse us, we have to get Joe over to his high-profile interview with the rapper that sang about how she's a "certified freak, seven days a week" with a "wet <private part>" that'll "make that pull-out game weak"

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Biden didn’t invite her to perform WAP on the South Lawn, did he? No.

Does your heart say yes?

best policy

retired firefighter said:

the Holy Ghost is needed for an armor to battle Satan

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Yes, that and so much more. I was fortunate to see this video yesterday. It is tough to hear that we are too void of God.
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Monetary policy

Bradskii said:

The art of the deal, I guess. 'Show me you're good (not that there's any reason to be good) and there'll be something in it for you'.

I can't believe that anyone voted for him, let alone enough people to win an election.

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I still can’t believe it either.

Goes really fast, wind does.

BPPLEE said:

Sure, if that's all they were doing

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You tell me:
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WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) today shared the violent criminal history of some of the worst of the worst criminal illegal aliens U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) arrested in Portland last month. These criminals include pedophiles, murderers, sexual predators, and drug traffickers.

“Pedophiles, murderers, sexual predators, and drug traffickers. These are the heinous criminals Antifa domestic terrorists are trying to obstruct law enforcement from removing from our communities,” said Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin. “We are not allowing domestic terrorists to slow us down from removing the worst of the worst.

RocksInMyHead said:

Because protesting remains legal in the good 'ol US of A.

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Sure, if that's all they were doing

monetary species