The Liturgist said:

@rusmeister I don’t post threads on current events but i’ve been praying fervently for Irnya Zarutska, memory eternal, and her loved ones, who was the victim of a terrible violent act, and for Charlie Kirk, memory eternal, and his loved ones, as well as the victims of the crash of the Elvador da Gloria in Lisbon. These events cause me great distress and all I really want to talk about on ChristianForums is the liturgy and a few other subjects of mutual interest; I also defend from unwarranted attacks, most of which seem to come from Seventh Day Adventists and Pentecostals (whose opposition to us and rapid growth were prophesied by Fr. Seraphim Rose) the traditional liturgical churches such as the Roman Catholics, the traditional Anglicans and confessing Lutherans and conservative liturgical Methodists, the Eastern Catholics, the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East, and naturally the canonical Eastern Orthodox and our Oriental Orthodox friends.

I hope you don’t think the fact that I haven’t made posts on those issues to indicate a lack of care or concern - far from it. I am in an unpleasant situation with my health which is interfering with my work and creating problems almost as unpleasant as some of those you have had to deal with, and I am just doing my best. But I want you to know I’m praying for you, I love you very much along with all other Eastern Orthodox members, and my main hope for the Orthodox forum is that we continue to love one another here and not allow this forum to become like a now-defunct Orthodox forum which I never joined, where the members seemed to be cruel to each other for recreational value.

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Hi! I wasn’t meaning to pick on anyone in particular.
Anyway, it was an aside, and I don’t want to derail the thread.

Godcrazy said:

the judging others too harsh too soon too much is a problem I think. the ones that do not fit the mould. no attempt rarely to reach down and find out why or think deeper about it, like why is it I do not understand or react this way. rare.

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We should judge all things, just not after the flesh ...

rjs330 said:

Im talking the big picture. This incident of evil is not isolated. Something is happening in the country. Its a rise of evil. And while the majority of it is happening in our inner cities it's a violence that is rising.

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So you’re contending that the most violence occurs where the most people are? Sounds reasonable - more people, more violence.

But violence actually seems to be falling in the cities somehow, not rising. Most school shootings, for some reason, do not take place in the inner cities. That’s why your conflation seems a bit of a stretch.

Who is celebrated in our popular culture? Very often it is the one who solves problems with violence. There are occasional heroes such as Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, etc who glorify peaceful means but offhand I can’t think of any series or blockbuster movies that do, can you?

Is American culture evil? While a case can certainly be made, I don’t think so. I also don’t think the left is evil as too many here have argued nor do I think that the right is. But we can do better.

ViaCrucis said:

The inevitable conclusion from this logic is that Americans are uniquely more evil than all other people.

This particular problem is uniquely American; and if guns have nothing to do with it, and if it is solely a matter of the human condition, then we must--by necessity--conclude that Americans are uniquely and especially evil.

-CryptoLutheran

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Maybe there IS an evil that is rising in America. Maybe there us something happening in America that is doing more to radicalized people into believing violence is the answer. "I killed a white girl" was said by a mm and who used a knife. A radical used a molatove cocktail. People have used cars. Yes guns are a very efficient tool. We can't deny that.

The only way to stop gun violence is to get rid of ALL guns. Remove every gun from this country. That would do it.

But the rise in radicalization and seeing violence as the answer is the ROOT cause. And until that gets addressed, the violence will continue.

Delvianna said:

Here's my 2 cents:
We have to remember a few things.
1) Israel is lost.

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No, Israel is not "lost" but is facing significant challenges, including the aftermath of the Oct 7, 2023, attacks and economic strain from the ongoing conflict with Hamas. Christians actively supports Israel through humanitarian aid, first responder equipment, housing for evacuated families, trauma counseling, and rebuilding efforts, asserting that a strong bond of friendship and support exists between Israel and Christians worldwide.

Delvianna said:

Okay, I'm just going to give one at the moment or this message is going to be too long. Let's take the idea of praying to others. This can be Mary or to people who you classify as "saints". Let's first start with the idea of prayer. Jesus says,

Matthew 6:5 says - " But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."

There is no verse that tells you to pray to anyone else. This is why Jesus gave us an example through the Lords prayer. But the word for pray, is proseuchomai which holds the definition of "supplicate" or "worship". Supplicate means to beg or ask something earnestly or humbly but I want to focus on the fact that it specifically says "worship". So not only did Jesus tell us to pray to the Father and that there is no other verse that tells you to pray to anyone else, and since the definition is worship, that brings me to...

"And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ” - Luke 4:8

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; " - Philippians 4:6

So praying to literally anything or anyone else is actually in violation of the 1st commandment because we are not supposed to worship anything else but God and only have 1. Regardless if you want to argue that praying to other people aren't "gods", its still an idol. An Idol is literally anything that you give worship to. So, still in the act of sin and because Catholics do this practice on the regular, this is just one aspect that is driving a giant wedge between you and your relationship with God, when he isn't the only one you worship.

Now for your argument that they're mediators...

"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus," - 1 Timothy 2:5

The word "mediator" is mesites which also means, go-between-intermediary. That verse needs no other, there is only one and that's Christ. Salvation is a relationship with God and not one where you wedge other people in between when you are supposed to be putting your faith ONLY in God. Pray to him alone, worship him alone, or you might find that Jesus says he never knew you.

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Are you denying the doctrine of the Trinity? Since Jesus Christ is God incarnate, one with the Father according to the Gospel of John, prayers can absolutely be addressed to Him, but you seem to be referring to him as a Man distinct from God, as opposed to being God incarnate as a Man, which according to John 1:1-18 he absolutely is

By the way @SabbathBlessings with regard to the Incarnation - this absolutely can be proven biblically; the doctrinal errors I was referring to which lean on the Nicene Creed for refutation are rather errors such as Sabellianism, Eutychianism, Nestorianism, Monothelitism and so on.

I would note we have examples in Scripture of prayer to Christ our True God as well as the Father, and all traditional churches have prayers addressed to all three persons of the Trinity, primarily the Father but also in many cases the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Delvianna said:

Okay, I'm just going to give one at the moment or this message is going to be too long. Let's take the idea of praying to others. This can be Mary or to people who you classify as "saints". Let's first start with the idea of prayer. Jesus says,

Matthew 6:5 says - " But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."

There is no verse that tells you to pray to anyone else. This is why Jesus gave us an example through the Lords prayer. But the word for pray, is proseuchomai which holds the definition of "supplicate" or "worship". Supplicate means to beg or ask something earnestly or humbly but I want to focus on the fact that it specifically says "worship". So not only did Jesus tell us to pray to the Father and that there is no other verse that tells you to pray to anyone else, and since the definition is worship, that brings me to...

"And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ” - Luke 4:8

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; " - Philippians 4:6

So praying to literally anything or anyone else is actually in violation of the 1st commandment because we are not supposed to worship anything else but God and only have 1. Regardless if you want to argue that praying to other people aren't "gods", its still an idol. An Idol is literally anything that you give worship to. So, still in the act of sin and because Catholics do this practice on the regular, this is just one aspect that is driving a giant wedge between you and your relationship with God, when he isn't the only one you worship.

Now for your argument that they're mediators...

"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus," - 1 Timothy 2:5

The word "mediator" is mesites which also means, go-between-intermediary. That verse needs no other, there is only one and that's Christ. Salvation is a relationship with God and not one where you wedge other people in between when you are supposed to be putting your faith ONLY in God. Pray to him alone, worship him alone, or you might find that Jesus says he never knew you.

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I agree with you that praying to saints can be a big stumbling block, but I’m not sure it can lead to damnation. However, repeating the same prayer to the same saint in a ritual over and over again distracts from the saving grace of Christ and give the impression of working one’s way into heaven by saying the rosary plus other rituals. Even if the Roman Church does not teach this explicitly, it comes across to some Catholics implicitly. The other problem is Mary overshadowing Christ. Even if she could hear our prayers, she is not more merciful and forgiving than Christ. Again, Catholics say that it is not formal church doctrine, but many Catholics act like it is.

iluvatar5150 said:

I’m glad we’ve gotten past the point of being angry about politics being inserted into our athletic events.

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I see that you think that honoring Charlie Kirk and his family is a political thing to do.

(staff edit)
Politicians truly do disgust me. I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ will save their souls. FTFY.

While I have no problem with Boebert calling for open prayer, her doing so immediately after an observed moment of silent prayer seems more performative and legalistic than anything.

The terrorist organisation Hamas has spoken out for the first time since the Israeli air strike in Qatar and is attempting to demonstrate strength. However, the silence surrounding the whereabouts of its leaders reveals a deep sense of uncertainty.

Hamas spokesman Fauzi Barhum appeared before the press on Thursday and declared that Israel's attack had not only targeted individual officials, but was a blow to the entire negotiation process. In doing so, the organisation is attempting to politicise the attack, a pattern that has been part of its propaganda strategy for years.

While Hamas is demonstrating toughness in its rhetoric, crucial questions remain unanswered. Barhum admitted that the wife and daughter-in-law of senior Hamas figure Khalil al-Hajja were injured in the air strike, but the organisation remains silent about his fate. He was also conspicuously absent from the funeral of those killed in Doha, an indication that he may have been more seriously injured than Hamas is publicly admitting.

Israel, for its part, is keeping a low profile. Official sources emphasise that the evaluation of the bombing, the so-called BDA (Bomb Damage Assessment), has not yet been completed. Experience shows that Hamas is quick to conceal its own losses, while Israel remains cautious until clear image and intelligence analyses are available.

In terms of content, Barhum repeated the familiar maximum demands: complete withdrawal of the Israeli army from the Gaza Strip, a comprehensive prisoner exchange, international aid and reconstruction under Hamas control. The fact that the terrorist organisation presents these conditions as ‘non-negotiable’ fits the pattern: Israel is to be forced to legitimise Hamas' rule over Gaza.



The reality, however, is different. The air strikes in Doha have hit Hamas hard, if only because its inner circle of leaders, hitherto safe in Qatar, has been directly targeted. The image of inviolability is gone. The fact that the Emir of Qatar, of all people, appeared alongside Hamas officials at the funeral also raises questions about the role of the Gulf state. While Doha presents itself as a mediator, it also allows Hamas to set up a negotiating team on its soil, an open contradiction.

From Jerusalem's perspective, the strike in Doha sends a clear message: those who wage war against Israel cannot feel safe outside Gaza. At the same time, the operation makes it clear that the Israeli leadership does not view the ceasefire negotiations as an end in themselves. If terrorist leaders use the talks as a cover to cement their power, Israel will take away that protection.

Hamas is now trying to interpret the attack as proof of its own victimhood. But its accusations against the US seem like a diversionary tactic. At its core, the terrorist organisation has suffered a severe blow. Whether its leadership has actually been weakened will only become clear in the coming days. One thing is already clear, however: Israel has expanded the theatre of war and Hamas must recognise that no place of retreat is permanently safe.

@rusmeister I don’t post threads on current events but i’ve been praying fervently for Irnya Zarutska, memory eternal, and her loved ones, who was the victim of a terrible violent act, and for Charlie Kirk, memory eternal, and his loved ones, as well as the victims of the crash of the Elvador da Gloria in Lisbon. These events cause me great distress and all I really want to talk about on ChristianForums is the liturgy and a few other subjects of mutual interest; I also defend from unwarranted attacks, most of which seem to come from Seventh Day Adventists and Pentecostals (whose opposition to us and rapid growth were prophesied by Fr. Seraphim Rose) the traditional liturgical churches such as the Roman Catholics, the traditional Anglicans and confessing Lutherans and conservative liturgical Methodists, the Eastern Catholics, the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East, and naturally the canonical Eastern Orthodox and our Oriental Orthodox friends.

I hope you don’t think the fact that I haven’t made posts on those issues to indicate a lack of care or concern - far from it. I am in an unpleasant situation with my health which is interfering with my work and creating problems almost as unpleasant as some of those you have had to deal with, and I am just doing my best. But I want you to know I’m praying for you, I love you very much along with all other Eastern Orthodox members, and my main hope for the Orthodox forum is that we continue to love one another here and not allow this forum to become like a now-defunct Orthodox forum which I never joined, where the members seemed to be cruel to each other for recreational value.

FireDragon76 said:

Democrats were right to call out an appeal to prayer weaponized.

Granting a moment of silence has more than enough symbolic weight. Turning prayer into a partisan spectacle should offend any serious Christian.

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The praying and moments of silence was not weaponized at all. Democrats in Congress are stupid in suggesting that it was.

Michie said:

I’ve written in CP before that I believe once a Christian is saved through the sacrifice of Christ, they cannot lose their salvation. This doctrine is most often called the perseverance (sometimes labeled “preservation”) of the saints.

On this topic, the Westminster Confession of Faith says: “They whom God hath accepted in His beloved Son effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit can neither totally nor finally fall away from a state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved.”

There are plenty who disagree with this.

For example, the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent declared: “If anyone says that a man once justified cannot lose grace and therefore that he who falls and sins never was truly justified, let him be accursed.” And at the 1610 Conference of the Remonstrants (what Arminians called themselves then) said, “Persons truly regenerate, by neglecting grace and grieving the Holy Spirit with sin, fall away totally, and at length finally, from grace into eternal reprobation.”

Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

All our sins past and future evaporated at the cross and can t be resurrected against us ever, and thus we re forever protected from them

www.christianpost.com

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The WCF is basically saying "if you're saved and one of the elect, you're going to prove it by remaining in the faith until you're called home."

That's a far cry from its current corruption of "once saved always saved," in which the individual once saved, can totally apostasize but God's still stuck with them: "Yes, the dear departed said a prayer back in April 1978, so they're in like Flynn." The idea is morphed from perseverance of the saints to preservation of the sinner.

durangodawood said:

I guess Americans have particularly bad hearts, and various other countries have hearts that are a lot better.

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Its not the guns, its the people. We are seeing that the evil within man's heart is leading them to these heinous acts. I don't think we can deny that guns makes it easier for these evil prople to carry out their wicked plans. The gun is the tool they use. The acts start and end with the person. As we have seen evil people will use whatever tool us available, guns, knives, molatove cocktails and vehicles.

1/3 of College students believe its okay to use violence to stop speakers from speaking on campus. There is a rise in acceptance of political violence. Violent radicalism is on the rise. We have fliers with pictures of Charlie Kirk bleeding out that read "Debate This", We have people writing on a wall at a Seattle college "kill all Charlie Kirks".

It sounds like this shooter at the high school was radicalized by something on line.

Ive said it before, the only way to stop people from dying by gun is to remove every gun. I mean every gun, all of them with no exceptions. People were killed with a revolver. Kirk was killed with a bolt action rifle.

But the TRUE problem isnt the gun. You know this.

MotoToTheMax said:

Also saying that he'll meet Charlie again in Valhalla or something like that. What the heck is that about? Unserious people leading serious departments is like 80% of this administration so far.

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I looked at my husband and said “they’re meeting in the pagan heaven of Norse warriors? Wasn’t he Christian? And not a warrior? Why would he be in Valhalla? Or is this a Marvel reference…? Was he a Marvel fan? Or is this an alpha male thing?”

I think he genuinely thought that would be his “that’s one small step for man” quote.

Jipsah said:

I think a Kahuna was/is a Hawaiian shamam of some sort.

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It was - but we American's hijack words

Here's my 2 cents:
We have to remember a few things.
1) Israel is lost. I don't know why some people think Israel can do no wrong. A lot of people who are pro-Israel, it's like they can't condemn something they do... it's weird, quite frankly. We have no qualms about correcting others or calling out others faults but it's like somehow, Israel becomes the poster child for perfection and can do no wrong. Israel will remain a lost country until their faith blooms in Christ.
2) The media throws out propaganda all the time. Arguing over it, is honestly a waste of energy. There is absolutely no way we can 100% know what is truth and what is false since I see conflicting articles ALL the time. I mean, just try and do research on "Did Israel commit genocide" and England just came out with a report saying no they didn't but other countries like Ireland, Spain says they are?? I mean... geeze....

Vanellus said:

I think you need to look up "tacitly"

Your post #4690 did not refer to Netanyahu

Pure speculation by you.

It is the IDF who use Palestinians as human shields:
https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields

There are more recent examples described in the above Jewish website.

e.g.

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You have indeed drank the kool aid. We are never going to agree so no sense on wasting my time. Have a blessed day.

Chesterton said:

Okay. Were you trying to make a point or something?

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Yes, I was commenting on your Orwell reference about claims that run counter to the plain interpretation of a piece of text. My point is that, right now, when taken together, the messages on the shell casings are nonsensical. By themselves, two would appear to have a clear interpretation (“ciao” and “catch this”), but when put in context of the others that appear to reference online memes, their meaning becomes muddled.

Tropical Wilds said:

That was one of many truly bizarre things said in that conference.

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Also saying that he'll meet Charlie again in Valhalla or something like that. What the heck is that about? Unserious people leading serious departments is like 80% of this administration so far.

JosephZ said:

From the live press conference:

The engravings on the bullet casings read: "hey fascist what's this," "Hey Fascist! Catch!," "Bella Ciao," and "If you read this, you are gay lmao."

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No… No trans whatever whatever as they reported?