FaithT said:

You don’t think Ken Ham is genuine? My drama teacher from high school just visited his Ark Encounter.

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I have to say, I went there, along with the Creation Museum last month, I found both quite enjoyable. I took a lot of their "conclusions" with skepticism, but it was still a good time.

FireDragon76 said:

Deepfakes are ethically and morally problematic, especially if they are used to spread misinformation, and they should be curtailed by law unless the content has an explicit disclaimer than the images are not real, computer generated, or for the purposes of satire.

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Everyone knows from looking at the Babylon Bee moniker that they are looking at satire. Overturning this law was right. Or should Kathy Griffin have been jailed for holding up a fake severed head of Trump?

eclipsenow said:

The USD seems to be losing its status as the global currency reserve.
Many nations are selling off BILLIONS in US bonds - China sold off over $340 billion.
The debt keeps climbing.

$1 TRILLION a year just to service the interest!

Trump's ever changing tariffs - based on whether or not he got soap in his eyes in the shower that morning - are not helping the global economy and American trade.

His insane BBB which gives $3 TRILLION in tax cuts over the next decade to billionaires while kicking the bottom 16 MILLION Americans off healthcare is not only a breach of election promises to curb the debt, but it is economically suicidal.

The world is watching - and starting to prepare for the end of American economic hegemony.
The end of the American advantage as the global currency reserve.

This brilliant analysis shows the weird way international borrowing of US bonds has propped up the US economy.
But if confidence in the US dollar vanishes - everything changes.
Inflation kick starts, importing all those manufactured goods and a quarter of your food all becomes more expensive - and the interest rates could rise. Then you're paying even MORE to service your debt.

Annually - the US is paying MORE ON DEBT than your entire military budget!
And that is unprecedented in developed economies.

Login to view embedded media

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Over the past two decades, I have consistently observed that when a Republican holds the presidency, liberal economists assert that the BRICS nations are strengthening and may soon challenge the dominance of the US dollar. Conversely, when a Democrat is in office, conservative economists make similar predictions.

The US dollar will remain the dominant global currency, as no other currency currently has the capacity to replace it.

However, economic challenges arise in global trade. President Trump's policies have pushed US allies to develop new trade relationships among themselves and with former adversaries, often excluding the US. For example, Canada and Mexico are seeking closer ties with China and Europe, while Brazil has signed a decade-long agriculture and beef deal with China, previously a US market. Similarly, tariffs on India have led it to cooperate more with China, once an adversary. President Trump will leave office in 2029, but these shifting trade alliances could endure for generations.

Hentenza said:

Israel continues to help the United States deal with traditional security threats. The two countries share intelligence on terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and Middle Eastern politics. Israel's military experiences have shaped the United States' approach to counterterrorism and homeland security. The two governments work together to develop sophisticated military technology, such as the David's Sling counter-rocket and Arrow missile defense systems, which may soon be ready for export to other U.S. allies. Israel has also emerged as an important niche defense supplier to the U.S. military, with sales growing from $300 million per year before September 11 to $1.1 billion in 2006, due to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Israel's military research and development complex has pioneered many cutting-edge technologies that are transforming the face of modern war, including cyberweapons, unmanned vehicles (such as land robots and aerial drones), sensors and electronic warfare systems, and advanced defenses for military vehicles.

The U.S.-Israeli alliance has paved the way for the countries to cooperate on far more than just traditional security issues. In part because of the long-standing political and security relationship between the United States and Israel, most Israelis know the United States and harbor positive feelings toward it. Israeli companies looking for a global market for their products have often viewed their American counterparts as partners of choice. So today, Israeli civilian technological innovations are helping the United States maintain its economic competitiveness, promote sustainable development, and address a range of non-military security challenges.

Dozens of leading U.S. companies have set up technology incubators in Israel to take advantage of the country's penchant for new ideas, which is why Bill Gates observed in 2006 that the "innovation going on in Israel is critical to the future of the technology business." Likewise, Israeli high-tech firms often turn to U.S. companies as partners for joint production and marketing opportunities in the United States and elsewhere, creating tens of thousands of American jobs. And although Israelis make up just three percent of the population of the Middle East, in 2011 Israel was the destination of 25 percent of all U.S. exports to the region, having recently eclipsed Saudi Arabia as the top market there for American products.

Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is Good for America

The bilateral relationship is based on tangible, steadily increasing security and economic interests, not just shared values.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

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The US-Israeli relationship is mostly a relic of the Cold War. Like the US involvement in Vietnam, it's part of a colonial legacy that has been bequeathed to the US. Now that the Cold War is over, and Israel is firmly in the hands of a government opposed to liberal democratic norms and international law, the calculus of the relationship has shifted more towards liability than asset.

Hentenza said:

So it all depends on how bad a person is, right?

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All people are saved. All devils, condemned

Hentenza said:

Can demons be saved? How about evil doers, like those that profess the devil as their god?

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That is overt activity of devils in the person. But all have the activity regardless, Romans 3:9

essentialsaltes said:

And how does that compare with the proportion before he did so?
What proportion of these new arrests involved feds?
Is the total number of arrests up or down?

The story says more than half the murders happen in these wards, so it's not that surprising that half the criminal arrests might come from there ordinarily. For an article allegedly based on numbers, it's not providing any useful ones to serve as a metric of change.

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This article appears to be aimed at the media coverage that accused Trump of not hitting the high crime areas, not to be a numbers-touting article.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Universal is also merely an encompassing like term.

One can believe mankind is "universally" atoned for and still believe for example that devils are also "universally" condemned and not atoned for, which answers to your positions. You just left out that other party to the equations.

For the record many universalists do not believe there is Satanic salvation, but some, like the thread opening author do promote that.

I don't think it's feasible or necessary.

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So it all depends on how bad a person is, right? Can demons be saved? How about evil doers, like those that profess the devil as their god?

Acts 9:15-20
The Lord said, “Go your way, for he is my chosen vessel to bear my name before the nations and kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for my name’s sake.” Ananias departed and entered into the house. Laying his hands on him, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord, who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he received his sight. He arose and was baptized. He took food and was strengthened. Saul stayed several days with the disciples who were at Damascus. Immediately in the synagogues he proclaimed the Christ, that he is the Son of God.

Ephesians 5:15-20
Watch carefully how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Therefore, don’t be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Don’t be drunken with wine, in which is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs; singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always concerning all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father.

Galatians 5:22-25
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

With the Holy Spirit filling us he will fill our lives. There is testimony to Jesus Christ to those we can have listening to us. So we do not then walk as the unwise, or remain among them, who deny the truth. We would desire knowing the will of God for us so as to do what is according to it. It would not be taking anything that would possibly intoxicate us. We should have psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs we can be prepared to sing, with those in our hearts, with thankfulness to God through Christ. And the fruit of the Spirit of God would be with us growing productively that will then show to others, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control. There is no good reason to keep any of these limited, with which we are growing in godliness.

Deepfakes are ethically and morally problematic, especially if they are used to spread misinformation, and they should be curtailed by law unless the content has an explicit disclaimer than the images are not real, computer generated, or for the purposes of satire.

fhansen said:

Yes, that’s as far as you can know.

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Is there anything that can separate you from your faith in Christ?

ozso said:

Were they lowered or removed?

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They have been removed but the lower court can place more appropriate fines, which it probably will not do until the appeal process has run it's course.

Ophiolite said:

Some people win the lottery by using the birth days of their family and pets. Their success is down to chance. Thus far science has worked in a vast and diverse range of instances, alternative approaches - not so much!

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Yes and I agree it does very well in what it measures and we have proof of this in how it improves our lives. In some ways thats the problem. Its been so successful that its easy to then claim the same naturalism as the only real thing we can know.

Ophiolite said:

Science does not say there is no God. Some indiivduals choose to use some findings of science to make that declaration.

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It is those who use the science to refute God in debates like this. They say if you cannot show a peer reviewed paper or some empiricle evidence then its unreal.

They defeat the alternative view with the science. Thus stepping over the line into philosophical claims about epistemics and ontological truths it cannot verify with science.

Ophiolite said:

Assuredly there is no substantive evidence of God - this is why faith is a cornerstone of many religions. My belief in Christianity was founded on faith. My rejection of Christianity had nothing to do with science, but was entirely down to my rejection of faith as a valid and valuable concept.

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That seems illogical when we live by faith everyday. We know that in some things at least it is by faith that we proceed or based how we behave or choose in certain matters. So rejecting the idea of faith as a valid and valuable concept is impossible really when we live by faith and accept its reality in our lives. Even without religion.

You obviously put faith in your spouse or partner. You do the same with others in certain positions. You believe the sky won't fall in and that we are not living in some simulation. You believe you have real choices and control in your life.

Ophiolite said:

Science can, and does, realistically assert that there is no evidence for consciouness beyond the brain.

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Actually it cannot as a matter of category. The physical processes that are activated and signal such as brain activity, flushing of skin. goose bumps ect can be measured. But the experience of consciousness itself cannot.

This can only be measured by the experiencer who can attempt to express the feelings of awe, or fear or pain. But the awe and pain does not reside in the physcial processes such as brain activity. No more than they would in the physical wires of a computer.

So therefore our conscious experiences and phenominal beliefs give us a different kind of knowledge about reality that science (methological naturalism) cannot. It is this kind of knowledge such as that Indignous peoples speak of when they speak of spirituality and knowledge of say the environment or nature itself. Its based on spiritual experiences and beliefs.

Ophiolite said:

You had better explain what you mean by belief, for your sentence makes no sense using my understanding of the word. Science is making excellent strides in its investigation of consciouness. As I previously noted, it is a tough nut to crack, but research continues to edge forwards.

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Science can never work out consciousness because like I said its a completely different category. Its like trying to use say mathmatics to workout how to solve a relationship problem. Science describes and measures objective quantities independent of the subjective.

Conscious experiences are themselves subjective and can only be understood and explain by the subject, the experiencer in qualitative terms. What you are talking about is meausring all the possible physical quantative processes. But they will only descibe the activity happening as a result of those experiences. Not the experiences themselves.

There is no color red or bright orange sunset contained in the physical brain. Its cotained in the non physical mind. You cannot put the brain under the microscope and see a yellow sunset in the neurons lol.

Ophiolite said:

You need more patience. Perhaps you are upset that it is only your great, great, great grandchildren who will know the results of the research.

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I don't think it will ever happen because its impossible really. That you cannot realise I think this is part of what I am saying. That there is this metaphysical worldview divide between materialist and atheists and those who believe in some transcedent reality or being beyond what we see or the physical naturalistic causes.

This I think is trying to force something into the material science box that will not go because the idea is that absolutely everything must reduce to these material physical ontologies and all else is unreal and make believe. So therefore even though we cannot workout consciousness now no matter what the answer is in the futuire is it only going to be a physical one according to methodological naturalism.

You could apply this same divide to our history in general as we have seen with how Indigenous knowledge and other religious beliefs are treated as superstition and the only real history is the one fed by scientific materialism.

Ophiolite said:

See above.
And, the use of "science materialism" in the way you describe is not the work of science, just as using "science" - as some do - to support their belief in God, is not science. Yes, please stop conflating the use (and abuse) of science, with science. That appears to be one of the more egregious of your errors.

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I am not and have specified several times that I am not criticings the science method itself. It is good at what it measures within a limited area of phenomena. But its the use of that science by some to deny and deminish alternative ways of knowing for which science cannot comment on in the first place.

Everytime someone on this thread uses the science, demands scientific evidence to defeat say a belief in God or gods or a transcedent reality and knowledge. They are stepping from the science and into belief themselves. They are using the science to then claim first an epistemic truth that science is the only way to understand reality.

Second an ontological truth that there is only a material reality. That is beyond science. And if you say that this is not happening I can easily go back and give you dozens of examples.

stevevw said:

On what basis do you claim this. You say the architecture style and yet the architecture style of at least some of the pillars and granite works are more in line with old kingdom works.

We know for a fact that there were works from the old kingdom in Karnak because we have the pillar bases under the existing pillars. One which has a priests name on it from the 4th dynasty. So we know that there was a Temple at Karnak as early as the 4th dynasty and maybe earlier.

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Try reading my post carefully, "There are no Old Kingdom ruins standing today". In other words it refers to the visible ruins which are New Kingdom or later.

stevevw said:

The fact is we find sandstone copies from the new kingdom and we rarely find such large granite works from the new kingdom. Look at all the works and we will find the majority and best examples in granite from the old kingdom.

The point is they are found in abundence at Karnak and other similar sites from the new kingdom. The very obelisk we are talking about is in pink granite and not sandstone or limestone which the new kingdom used. The same with the pillars and statues and other fine works.

Which compared to new kingdom works is far superior. As though there are two destinct industries at the same site. One being of high quality and in the hardest stones and the other less quality in softer stone trying to copy these earlier works. In fact we see this through all the new kingdom sites.

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This is just plain wrong using your obelisk example completely destroys your argument.
New Kingdom obelisks were carved from a single blocks of red granite from Aswan, Old Kingdom obelisks were much smaller composed of stacked limestone blocks.
There's no doubt which is the technologically superior and your tired forgery argument doesn't work either as the existing Old Kingdom obelisks would to been carved from red granite.

stevevw said:

It seems logical like we see with most of these sites that there is always a previous works being built over or added to. Ramesses II was notorious for rebuilding and using other pharoahs works. Its no coincident that his name is often found on works that were not his.

Statue of Ramesses II
The statue was usurped by Ramesses VI (1143-1136 BC) and later by Pinedjem a High Priest (1070- 1032).

https://discoveringegypt.com/karnak-temple/karnak-temple-great-court/

Not that it matters as this does not change that even middle or new kingdom Egyptians had use of some circular saw to make those fine cuts. Even you said the same signature in the other example must have come from a modern tool like a circular saw to be able to cut into the stone. Rather than try to pass through it with a saw which would need access from both sides.


View attachment 369445



Why. Lets just compare the old kingdom works with the new kingdom works. Here we clearly see two different signatures. One in the hardest stones and near perfect from the old kingdom. The other in softer stone and less perfect from the new kingdom.

This suggests superior knowledge and tech. It would be silly to say they both used the same tools or that the new kingdom has better tools with steel and yet produced completely different qualities.

In fact the old kingdom superior works have never been repeated in later time. The exact opposite of what we would expect with the progression of tech and knowledge.

So it implies a superior knowledge of some sort to achieve such a high level of quality in the very first dynasties that has never really be repeated by all the later dynasties.

This is why when we see a high quality granite works on a new kingdom site whose signature is in softer stone and less quality we have to question that this is not actually an old kingdom works. Flinders Petrie who was the first archeologists at the site described Ramesses II as the great usurper as his name was stamped on obvious old kingdom works.

Look at his poor work on these ancient precision boxes. You would think if the original maker was so perfect on the box they would at least get the lines straight when putting their signature on it lol.

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I've shown obelisks destroy your argument here is another one The Standing Statue of Thutmose III which is the pinnacle of 18th dynasty art.


According to the experts it is on par with the pinnacle of 4th dynasty art the "Khafre Enthroned" statue which you included in your images.
Whereas the Khafre statue was carved from diorite, the Thutmose statue was carved from harder basalt.
How did they do this if they no longer had the technology and the forgery conspiracy theory doesn't work either as there is no evidence of tampering of the Pharaoh's cartouche shown on the belt of his kilt.
The most important ingredient which you constantly ignore is the skill of the craftsman. A bad workman blames his tools and a craftsman's skill is not solely determined by the tools he uses.

stevevw said:

We have these 100 ton boxes in the Sarapeum which are precise in all geometric relations within 1,000ths of an inch. Then we get some pharoah come along later and scribble his name on it like kids have done it with crooked and broken lines and claims they made the box. Two completely different levels of tech.

View attachment 369446 View attachment 369448

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So what, this nothing more than cherry picking to fuel a nonsensical conspiracy theory that the New Kingdom was never able to match or exceed the accomplishments of the Old Kingdom as it was all result of forgeries.

stevevw said:

Maybe, I don't know like I said. No one has come forward with any evidence that its a later addition. This is a signature of a modern tool like a circular saw that was not in existence until the 19th century.

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Since you throw around the word logic, which is the more logical conclusion, the sharp cuts were made after the relief was produced as there was no technology at the time to do it, or the sharp cut is contemporary with the relief even though there is no evidence of the technology while the existing technology confirmed by evidence could not produce a sharp cut.

Jerry N. said:

This is an excellent post. It probably won’t have any effect on the two adversaries in this thread, but I’m sure others who read it will appreciate your effort and learn. I certainly have. Thanks.

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It’s not an excellent post. Someone referencing quotes that agree with their position is not uncommon at all. The point is, no matter who the author of the article is, those things were written by those people and the only reason someone would have to hide them (or refuse to reference them) is because the quotes disprove their theological (in this case) position.

A2SG said:

Do you consider disagreeing with the government, or the policies of the government, to be a crime?

-- A2SG, there's a term for governments which criminalize anyone who disagrees with them.....

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No. Do you?

Vambram said:

The progressive left wing liberal judge said he committed fraud. This is yet another example of the weaponization of lawfare during the years of the Biden administration.

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No. Weaponization of lawfare is what Trump is doing now. He has directed his DOJ or others to find something that they can charge Trump's enemies with.

This is unlike what has happened to Trump. He was investigated for a possible crime. Some of those failed to find enough evidence while others found crimes did occur.

sfs said:

I, too, am interested in these logical arguments

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First Principles:

1) The principle of sufficient reason: the existence of being is accountable either in itself or in another. (A being cannot give what it does not have.)
2. The principle of proportionate causality: the effect cannot be greater than the cause.

My faith permits belief in evolution of the body, not the soul. The animation of creatures and especially rational creatures -- man, requires special acts of God. However, the probability that God worked through secondary causes, ie., chemical and biological, to bring about His plan while possible is not mathematically probable. Evolution theory is less an empirical science than an historiographical one. The way in which empirical scientists arrive at new and better theories has little in common with the way in which historians make new findings and revise earlier views of what happened in the past. The former include repeatable experiments and deductive reasoning to arrive at alternate hypotheses. The latter on less cogent indirect evidence and inductive reasoning.

I entered this "Christians Only" debate thread expecting a civilized discussion on the merits demerits of evolution theory. I find the evolution ideologists here not very different than the atheist/secular evolutionists in the threads on the same topic in the open forum so I'll leave you as I found you.

Vambram said:

Trump did not committ fraud. The banks were happy with the total repayment of the loans. Hopefully, the next level of appeals will completely reverse the lower court ruling of fraud.

NY appeals court throws out $500M penalty against Trump in Letitia James civil case

An appellate court has thrown out the nearly $500 million civil fraud penalty against former President Donald Trump in the high-profile case brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James.

www.foxnews.com

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The court didn't say a crime didn't occur. It ruled that the fines for those crimes were excessive. They need to be lowered to match the crime.

The US economy is being meddled with by a bloke who went bankrupt running casino.

Hentenza said:

The poster that I replied to claimed:

“Re-distributed.

Which is different from redistributed.”

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...and that is what I don't understand, because I have looked in several dictionaries, and they don't give a different meaning for redistributed and re-distributed.

Guojing said:

Before Paul, Gentiles who blessed Israel will be blessed by Israel's God, that has always been the case after the nation was formed, as promised to Jacob in Genesis 28:13-15.

And any nation that refused to bless Israel, or made life difficult for her, will also be cursed by God (Numbers 24:9, Deuteronomy 23:3-4), for many generations.

In time past, we cannot approach God independently, without Israel.

Even Jesus followed that rule during his first coming. (Romans 15:8, Matthew 15:24)

The Roman Centurion blessed Abraham's seed, by building Israel a synagogue. (Luke 7:4-5). That was why Jesus automatically agreed to meet with him and to grant him that miracle.

The Canaanite woman blessed Abraham's seed, Israel, by acknowledging her submission to Israel, that she was indeed a gentile puppy who have the right to be blessed from the bread crumbs falling from the children of Israel's table (Mark 7:28-29)

Both cases, Israel was honored, and Jesus could therefore bless them because they blessed Israel.

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Thank you for your reply. You are wrong in saying that in the OT the only way to God was to go through Israel. Yes, those who bless Israel will be blessed at the white throne judgment. But there were gentiles who learned of God without going through Israel.

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. NKJV


There was a Pastor of the Sheep Shed in Neosho Missouri that had a series about how the Zodiac spelled out the gospel. Each star sign had 2 or 3 decants associated with it. The 12 signs with it's decant spelled out a part and all 12 told the gospel message. Those in the OT who believed God through the zodiac could be saved by believing the zodiac message. As it states in Romans above the gentiles could be saved without the law.

Genesis 5:21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. NKJV

Enoch was not in Israel, yet he pleased God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Therefore, Enoch had saving faith without the law.

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; 26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God, 27 Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! NKJV

Job had no history of being a Jew, believed in His redeemer and looked forward to his resurrection with joy.

Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' ….............................................................................................................. 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." NKJV

Above are those who blessed Israel and will be judged at the white throne judgment at the end of the millennium.

Isaiah 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. 20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. NKJV

They live on the new earth, not in heaven. They do not get eternal bodies and will be renewed by eating the leaves and fruit of the tree of life. As you can read some will eventually commit sin and die.

sjastro said:

Chris Nuanton the Egyptologist/Archaeologist whom I have communicated with on a number of occasions was kind enough to give his comments.

View attachment 369442

Here is Chris Naunton's link.

Pyramid Mythbusting: further thoughts…

*I first drafted this piece in February 2023 but I’ve only just got round to finishing it, as a complement to my recent talk on ‘Pyramid Mythbusting’. Three phenomena I’ve been able to observe over…

chrisnaunton.com

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Nothing in his reply sorts out whether the saw cut examples were from the old kingdom or a modern 18th century forgery. That you have to explain these cuts as modern forgeries shows that you recognised the signature is different to the primitive method of copper hand saws and sand/quartz abrasion.

Like I said the finely sharp and straight cuts are not just seen in the overcuts on reminent pieces such as exampled. They are seen in the works themseves. The crisp, fine and straight lines of the stone built walls. the sharp, straight and precision flat surfaces of boxes. The perfect Symmetry and geometric relations in the boxes, statues and vases to machine control level.

All coming from the very earliest dynasties only to be followed by inferior works in later dynasties as though trying and failing to emulate these earlier works. Or finding these magnificant works and then usurping them into the later inferori though still amazing works of later dynasties.

If as you recognised the modern signatures in these off cuts. Then why not recognise the same level of modern signatures in the works I have been exampling.

I agree with your article. Its the science that can eventually establish the truth of these great works in how these signatures reflect modern tech. I welcome such science. More is needed.

Nowhere near enough work is being done on these works to measure them determine their originas and amazing level of tech involved. Which when understood I don't anyone would say they were created with the primitive tools on record.