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NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-07-21T06:27:08-0500

HIM said:
No one said any different. We are set from our bondage to sin, which is the law of sin. And we are set free from the consequences of our sin, death. Your intial post to which instigated this conversation only spelled out being set free from the consequences.

Yes, you are right. Both are true.

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. (Ro 7:25–8:1)

HIM said:
No it doesn't.

I had second thoughts as soon as I sent it, but I was hoping you would give me the correct answer anyway.

stevevw · 2025-07-21T06:26:27-0500

JohnB445 said:
There are ads on this website with a woman talking about God and the Bible, I am trying to find more of the videos and found them to be very helpful does anyone know where it can be found.

I find Wes Huff informative and interesting. I only came across him in another video giving some good knowledge and history on the bible. He is big on tracing the word meanings and context of the bible. But usually he is discussing a controversial verse or debunking false interpretations or assumptions about the bible meanings.

He also adds the tradition and history as well so you get to understand the context and put yourself back into that time and how the church and Christians would have understood the scriptures.

There are others like from Willian Lane Craif who is an apologist. He doesnpt have many videos apart from debating Christianity. But his works are very helpful in understanding the bible and giving rational basis for how it should be interpreted in the proper way.

Wes Huff

Wesley Huff (BA. MTS. PhD candidate) was born in Multan, Pakistan and spent a portion of his childhood in the Middle East. Wesley has participated in numerous talks and interfaith dialogue events at universities across North America and has been participating in public dialogues on issues of...

www.youtube.com

Normandt · 2025-07-21T06:25:27-0500

175. Jesus in our hearts

It must have been so difficult for the people who know Jesus to recognize him in his new mission. Jesus changed according to their eyes. From one day to the next, Jesus is on a mission and he must be very different before them. He says and he does what others can’t do.

They perceive here and there fragments of what Jesus realizes and it’s difficult to place the few pieces of the puzzle in a frame, especially when there are many missing pieces. In addition, they may receive conflicting messages of what they hear about Jesus.

Even today, the ambient message about Jesus, in general, in the world, is sometimes discordant. But it’s sometimes easy to trust the fears, rather than what Jesus tells us and realizes.

The people from his home, watching him go, came to seize him because they said:

“He is out of his mind.” Mark, chapter 3, verse 21

They want to protect their idea of Jesus. They can’t imagine for a moment that Jesus entered another stage of his life.

It’s a bit like that when a person causes problems in an environment. If people don’t check the foundation of a person’s mission, fear may be taking hold of some people and it may further harm the mission, instead of helping to build a more just, better world, merciful and true.

If we begin, in the immediate future, a mission in the name of Jesus, there is a good chance that our surroundings will find us different. It’s also possible that some people won’t recognize who we are, since we’re experiencing a transformation by following Jesus. It is a sign that we’re moving forward and a testimony of our faith to them.

Let’s give them some time to join us and understand, in faith. Let’s pray that they will also discover Jesus in their hearts. Let’s give them time to adjust to this novelty.

It’s then necessary to meet with other people who have faith in Jesus, to truly enter the mission that allows us to live and achieve goodness.

Let’s listen, discern, then encourage and help those who evangelize honestly in the name of Christ, with Christ.

The new American Bible, 2011-2014

Book: The Fruit that lasts, Normand Thomas

Neogaia777 · 2025-07-21T06:23:48-0500

BelieveItOarKnot said:
I would also object to the term bound. Not really possible to "bind" the Holy Spirit Grieve, yes. Bound, no.

John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

@David Lamb also.

I do hope you guys realize the problem(s) with language, and how it can be deceptive, and can sometimes be used to warrant more or less attention?

God Bless.

Neogaia777 · 2025-07-21T06:02:55-0500

BelieveItOarKnot said:
IF you accept the fact that devils occupy people, that does complicate how we read and understand the scriptures.

How so?

BelieveItOarKnot said:
We almost invariably read Mark 4:15 and a thought almost instantly comes to mind, that "this doesn't happen to me because I'm a believer." When the fact is, it's TRUE.

What's true?

BelieveItOarKnot said:
And if so, then the Word is both for and against us all because we are a bundle, of the child of God and the spirit(s) of disobedience that God Himself bound us all with to bring THEM into final judgments. Romans 11:32

"That He might have/show (His) Mercy (Love/Fogiveness) upon All"

It is against our sin, or our sin nature, but not all of us as people, or people who still sometimes sin, etc.

God Bless.

Platte · 2025-07-21T05:56:06-0500

FaithT said:
So what we’ve learned thus far is all the evidence shows that the universe and earth are billions of years old, there is no proof or logical evidence that it’s 6,000 years old, some of the YEC here acknowledge that that’s where the evidence points but because THEIR INTERPRETATION of the Bible says otherwise, people go with a YEC point of view anyway? Correct?

There is no proof or logical evidence that the earth was created 6000 years ago? Is that what you are saying?

Are you ignoring Recorded History?

Neogaia777 · 2025-07-21T05:54:59-0500

David Lamb said:
But the verses you mention are in the context of The Pharisees arguing that Jesus cast demons out of possessed people by the prince of demons:

“24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 “If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?” (Mt 12:24-26 NKJV)

The verses and their context certainly don't say that Jesus was possessed by Satan or by a demon.

As for the Holy Spirit being only in Jesus for a time, I don't agree that the bible says that.

Anyway, thanks for replying, and God bless you.

I believe that God the Holy Spirit is Yahweh God from the OT, and never did he ever choose to dwell inside anyone bodily before Jesus, due to being so utterly repulsed by most men's sins, or sinful nature, etc, but that that all began to change with Jesus, etc, and that either by Holy Spirits choice (or maybe not) he was restricted for a temporary time to Jesus.

But, yeah, thanks for the conversation.

God Bless.

stevevw · 2025-07-21T05:53:11-0500

I think we can see after Christ the disciples were scared and disheartened as their Master was gone. Christ was teaching them but the full implications of that were not realised until after Penticost.

Then we see different disciples bold and like Christ willing to die for Him. This ignited the church and especially when opened to the Gentiles we see Christianity growing quickly and many attracted to what was happening in the church.

Then we see this long slow moving away from this initially presense of Christ that was captured in the early church before the true message was subverted. Once that was allowed though there was always Christs church lingering usually quietly in the background. The church has never been the same.

The Medievil time was still a time where the western world at least lived under God and the bible. There were always Christlike teachers and leaders. But they were overwhelmed by the machine that the church had become unbtil this day once they got in bed with the world powers and pricipalities.

So generally I think there was this initially Christlike church due to the closeness of the actual events. Then as we move away from this like many things its begins to be forgotten and then its questioned whether it is the truth and the challenges come.

This coincided wat the same time with the rise of the secular State. Which today has replaced the church. Now its the other way around where the State is the dominant power and dictator of peoples norms and worldview.

So we have just about had a complete flip on how it was for most of our history and especially the early church. Which to me seems to mean we are entering once again a time when the church was the minority and persecuted by the surroounding pagan world.

BelieveItOarKnot · 2025-07-21T05:50:57-0500

Neogaia777 said:
The passages I am referring to is controversial as to what they are really about, but they are Matthew 12:29 and Mark 3:27. Most people will say that they were about Satan, but that would then also mean that Jesus was also possessed by/with Satan, which I do not believe, or that his powers/goods/knowledge also came from Satan, which I also don't believe, and Jesus also did not specifically say it was Satan that he was talking about there in those passages either, etc. The fact that it was Satan that was being talked about before that, doesn't really matter, etc. And in the passage in Matthew 12, Jesus actually talks about doing everything he was doing by the Spirit of God before the words about the strong man/spirit/person is mentioned, etc. And that his powers came only from the Holy Spirit of God, and not from Satan, etc. If the strong man was Satan, and Jesus was talking about plundering/using Satan's goods, then that would mean that Jesus powers/abilities were coming from Satan, which not only did Jesus say wasn't even ever possible ever, but also that his powers/abilities were not coming from Satan, etc. So Jesus was talking about God the Holy Spirit, or YHWH from the OT, etc.

"The Holy Spirit" became restricted to just only being in Christ at one point, and after that, was restricted to Jesus Christ until he (Jesus) died at the cross, but after that, then became available to being in/with everybody again after that point, etc. Holy Spirit always could be inside of people before that, but just didn't ever choose to before that (because of sin) until Jesus, and then chose to a lot more after that, or after Jesus, but irregardless of sin after that, or after Jesus, etc.

IF you accept the fact that devils occupy people, that does complicate how we read and understand the scriptures.

The fact is, Mark 4:15 is real for everyone.

All have sin, Romans 3:9

and

Sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

We almost invariably read Mark 4:15 and a thought almost instantly comes to mind, that "this doesn't happen to me because I'm a believer." When the fact is, it's TRUE.

And if so, then the Word is both for and against us all because we are a bundle, of the child of God and the spirit(s) of disobedience that God Himself bound us all with to bring THEM into final judgments. Romans 11:32

Larniavc · 2025-07-21T05:47:29-0500

Of all time it’s a toss up between SNES or Xbox 360.

Now it’s PS5

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-07-21T05:44:11-0500

Ligurian said:
From whom are the newer books getting their histories if not the ancient historians? I always go to the source, when possible. I don't want to know what someone thinks about what someone thinks about what someone thinks, etc ad nauseam. If I ever go to someplace like Wikipedia, I'm looking for the references, not their take on what the references have to say. It may be unusual to conclude for oneself, but if you're wrong you can always go back to the beginning, correct the conclusion, and thereby learn from the experience. Taking a fully-baked conclusion as fact dismisses the opportunity to learn a truth which may not have been apparent to the conclusion-writer.

But why are the ancient authors, writers who did have a full and clear picture of the world and knew significantly less about the world than we do today, held in more esteem by you than current authors?

Like, all I'm seeing from you is the single strangest version of the appeal to authority and confirmation bias imaginable.

You clearly know how to do referencing, which is the only positive that can be given to this whole thread, but come on! We have learnt so much about the world since the Ancients, that to ignore what everyone has written after them is just... it's ludicrous.

Ligurian said:
Modern scholarship bases what they write on what they believe to be true...

And the ancient writers didn't?! Hyperborian isn't a real place.

David Lamb · 2025-07-21T05:40:22-0500

Neogaia777 said:
The passages I am referring to is controversial as to what they are really about, but they are Matthew 12:29 and Mark 3:27. Most people will say that they were about Satan, but that would then also mean that Jesus was also possessed by/with Satan, which I do not believe, or that his powers/goods/knowledge also came from Satan, which I also don't believe, and Jesus also did not specifically say it was Satan that he was talking about there in those passages either, etc. The fact that it was Satan that was being talked about before that, doesn't really matter, etc. And in the passage in Matthew 12, Jesus actually talks about doing everything he was doing by the Spirit of God before the words about the stong man/spirit/person is mentioned, etc. And that his powers came only from the Holy Spirit of God, and not from Satan, etc.

"The Holy Spirit" became restricted to just only being in Christ at one point, and after that, was restricted to Jesus Christ until he (Jesus) died at the cross, but after that, then became available to being in/with everybody again after that point, etc. Holy Spirit always could be inside of people before that, but just didn't ever choose to before that (because of sin) until Jesus, and then after that, or after Jesus, etc.

But the verses you mention are in the context of The Pharisees arguing that Jesus cast demons out of possessed people by the prince of demons:

“24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 “If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?” (Mt 12:24-26 NKJV)

The verses and their context certainly don't say that Jesus was possessed by Satan or by a demon.

As for the Holy Spirit being only in Jesus for a time, I don't agree that the bible says that.

Anyway, thanks for replying, and God bless you.

BelieveItOarKnot · 2025-07-21T05:37:50-0500

David Lamb said:
Thanks for replying. I agree that all three persons of the Trinity were involved in our salvation, and in particular, in the life of Jesus while He was on earth. I agree too, that the Holy Spirit was with Him. What I don't find in the bible is your contention that the Holy Spirit was somehow "bound" inside Jesus.

I would also object to the term bound. Not really possible to "bind" the Holy Spirit Grieve, yes. Bound, no.

John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Jack Terrence · 2025-07-21T05:34:09-0500

Jonaitis said:
Substitutionary atonement is the biblical teaching that Jesus Christ died in the place of sinners, taking on Himself the punishment we deserved, so that we could be forgiven and reconciled to God through faith.

In other words:

1. We broke God’s law.

2. We deserve judgment (Romans 6:23).

3. Jesus stepped in as our substitute, taking the penalty in our place.

4. Because of His sacrifice, God’s justice is satisfied, and His mercy is freely given to us through faith.

So the cross is both justice and love meeting together. Let us not forget this beautiful gospel message.

Substitutionary atonement is a Calvinist myth. Justice and love do not meet together in the cross because it is neither just nor loving to punish an innocent man.

HIM · 2025-07-21T05:29:00-0500

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Hmmm. Romans 8:2 says we have been set free from "the law of sin and death". The nexus between "sin" and "death" does not go away because of things said about "the law of sin" in chapter 7. On the contrary, the nexus between sin and death is there on purpose because it is one of the main themes of the entire book of Romans. And the main theme of Romans is that the nexus between sin and death is broken by God sending His Son to die on a cross for our sins so that we would not face His wrath if we placed our trust in Him. That is also the point of Romans 8:2.

No one said any different. We are set from our bondage to sin, which is the law of sin. And we are set free from the consequences of our sin, death.

Your intial post to which instigated this conversation only spelled out being set free from the consequences.

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Not in so many words. But Romans comes very close...

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Ro 8:2)
We have been set free from having to pay the wages of sin (which is eternal death) because by the Spirit we have received new life in Christ Jesus. This is the good news of the gospel, and we should all be able to rejoice in that. Amen?

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Who is "we"? SDA? Your arguments sound like theirs.

No it doesn't.

fide · 2025-07-21T05:27:31-0500

Lady Bug said:
Sadly, I didn't really get any teaching on this. That "what is lacking" verse always confused me. No one seems to teach what it really means. It seems as if Paul is saying that he is not yet done going through afflictions for the sake of Christ, but who am I to say?

Hello Lady Bug,

I'm sorry this is so long - please be patient. God's wisdom encompasses much.

We, the Church, are the Body of Christ. Jesus promised us that, because the world hated Him they will also hate us, His Body, because He is our head and our heart. Thus if the world bought suffering to Him (as it did!) it will bring suffering to us also. The world will bring suffering and rejection to any who, like Him, would reject the world in love for God in Christ.

It is no accident that the Greek word for “witness” is “martyr”, which in common understanding means “one who gives up his life for the Faith”. But more exactly, there are two ways that one can be a true witness of Christ - a true martyr - for the Holy Faith:

a witness like the Apostle James, brother of John, who was the first apostle to be killed for the Faith - and a “red martyr” among many of the Church, a witness by his blood.
A witness like the Apostle John (brother of James), the only apostle known with certainty to not have been killed for his Faith. John lived a long and fruitful life, lived in total self-gift for God, a beautiful example of a “white martyr” of the Church. [A brief but good article about white martyrdom is found in Catholic Exchange.]

The Apostle John was called, interestingly “the disciple Jesus loved”, or “the Beloved Disciple”. His Gospel presents, in remarkable simplicity, perhaps the most spiritual account of the Gospel, an account rich with nuances and hidden wisdom, pointing uniquely to the supernatural dimension of the work and mission of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Each of the four Gospels is rich and meaningful, but John’s is “different.” His witness and mission were unique.

Every true disciple - martyr/witness - hears and receives from Jesus a cross:

Mt 10:38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mt 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Lk 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

And St. Paul testified:

1Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Gal 6:14 But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

And also, Paul wrote of the part of the faithful in the Mission:

Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Phil 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

For some, his cross brings his physical death. For all, one’s sufferings and cross bring the death of his natural life - his old and worldly life - but the growth and maturity of his supernatural, spiritual and eternal New Life in Christ!

Why, all this? Why is suffering essential in the Gospel? Because we must die to the “old man” in us, in order to live in the “new man in Christ”. ONLY the pure, the holy, the true can enter the Kingdom of God. The old, the self-centered in us, must die. This fallen creation will perish, because Christ came to make all things new. We must come to trust Him absolutely, completely, with nothing held back. Our self-gift to God must be complete, to receive and live in His Self-Gift to us. There - in Him - is the peace, joy, and Glory God made us to seek and to find. God will embrace us for this, the imitation of Christ the Son, and the world will hate us and reject us precisely for that same reason.

The afflictions of Christ will be incomplete as long as His Mission is not yet finished. His Body will suffer as He did until the Mission is finished, when the last soul to be saved enters the ark.

Jack Terrence · 2025-07-21T05:26:30-0500

Rescued One said:
He saves all that He will save.

Romans 9
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,b but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

That's all I can share tonight.

Chapter 9 is not the whole story. Chapter 10 says that faith was made accessible to every Jew because God had put the word of faith in the heart of every one of them. And chapter 11 says that the hardening of those who were cut off was only temporary, and that they would be grafted in again if they continued not in unbelief. Verse 32 says that God had consigned them all of them to disobedience that he might have mercy on all of them.

Tell the WHOLE story.

Neogaia777 · 2025-07-21T05:20:12-0500

David Lamb said:
Whether you say "bound" or "restricted", where is such a think taught in the bible?

The passages I am referring to is controversial as to what they are really about, but they are Matthew 12:29 and Mark 3:27. Most people will say that they were about Satan, but that would then also mean that Jesus was also possessed by/with Satan, which I do not believe, or that his powers/goods/knowledge also came from Satan, which I also don't believe, and Jesus also did not specifically say it was Satan that he was talking about there in those passages either, etc. The fact that it was Satan that was being talked about before that, doesn't really matter, etc. And in the passage in Matthew 12, Jesus actually talks about doing everything he was doing by the Spirit of God before the words about the strong man/spirit/person is mentioned, etc. And that his powers came only from the Holy Spirit of God, and not from Satan, etc. If the strong man was Satan, and Jesus was talking about plundering/using Satan's goods, then that would mean that Jesus powers/abilities were coming from Satan, which not only did Jesus say wasn't ever possible ever, but also that his powers/abilities were not coming from Satan, etc. So Jesus was talking about God the Holy Spirit, or YHWH from the OT, etc.

David Lamb said:
I find that we are taught that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit, and he died before Jesus. Elderly Simeon had the Holy Spirit:

“25 ¶ And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law,” (Lu 2:25-27 NKJV)

"The Holy Spirit" became restricted to just only being in Christ at one point, and after that, was restricted to Jesus Christ until he (Jesus) died at the cross, but after that, then became available to being in/with everybody again after that point, etc. Holy Spirit always could be inside of people before that, but just didn't ever choose to before that (because of sin) until Jesus, and then chose to a lot more after that, or after Jesus, but irregardless of sin after that, or after Jesus, etc.

Jack Terrence · 2025-07-21T05:19:42-0500

Brightfame52 said:
All men are slaves to sin, ethnicity has nothing to do

Brightfame52 said:
All men are slaves to sin, ethnicity has nothing to do with it

First, where did Jesus say that all men are slaves to sin? He said that whosoever commits sin is the slave of sin (John 8:31) "Whosoever" is not every man. Second, he was speaking to believers being set free from sin by continuing in his word.

31Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed in Him, “If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

stevevw · 2025-07-21T05:14:05-0500

I don't think it matters if there was humans walking the earth long ago beyond the 6 literal days. I think this is what can help understand the verse and not trying to decide an entire meaning on one words definition.

This seems to happen a lot including in the Greek and new testament where the entire interpretation comes down to a word meaning. I think if we expand the criteria and include anthroplogy, archeology, culture, sociology, we will understand better what is going on.

For one regardless of the word meanings it is the context for which those words were written in. The worldview of those people who did not see the world as we do today. So their use of particular words is premised on their worldview and their worldview was completely different to ours today.

Jack Terrence · 2025-07-21T05:06:08-0500

Brightfame52 said:
They were never condemned, Christ was condemned/accursed in their stead

Yes, they were condemned. You are a gospel denier.

Jack Terrence · 2025-07-21T05:05:26-0500

GoldenKingGaze said:
How does this matter return to the OP interest in being responsible regarding grace and destiny?

I was answering a claim by another poster.

MarkRohfrietsch · 2025-07-21T05:03:33-0500

Hentenza said:
This makes absolutely no sense. I’m not nor will I ever be an universalist but Jesus here is in fact saying the the kingdom of God is for such as these. And these are the children. You can’t change the scriptures to suit your theology,

Hi Henry, it has been a while!!
Mark :wave:

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