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Curious as to what precisely makes Full-Preterism considered an non orthodox heresy?

The web 'summary' seems proper/ accurate:
re Titus 3:9
"advises against engaging in "foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law" because they are "unprofitable and worthless". The verse is a directive from the Apostle Paul to Titus to avoid pointless disputes and debates that distract from the core message of the Gospel and cause unnecessary conflict within the church.

  • "Foolish controversies" and "quarrels about the law":
    These refer to debates over legalistic interpretations of Jewish law that were becoming divisive in the early church.

  • "Genealogies":
    This could refer to endless lists of names from the Old Testament or other myths and debates that were seen as a distraction from the main message of faith and salvation through Christ.

    • "Unprofitable and worthless":
      The verse emphasizes that these kinds of disputes are a waste of time and energy that do not lead to spiritual growth or benefit the community.
    • Context:
      The verse is part of a broader letter from Paul to Titus, who was leading the church on the island of Crete. Paul's instructions are about building a healthy, functional church community focused on sound doctrine and godly living. "
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Who then can be saved?

This is true. Love is the true motivator for good works. Faith is involved as it connects us to the Source of that very love. That love, in other words, blossoms in direct proportion to our nearness to Him. To the extent that we turn to Him in faith and then remain in Him, we will produce much good fruit, John 15:5
Amen but this isn’t automatic, it comes thru our cooperation with His will.
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Who then can be saved?

There are only two kinds of people in the world, those who are alive in Christ and those who are dead in their sin. Those of us who re alive in Christ, are under Gods grace, and those who are dead in their sin are under Gods wrath and judgement. He's angry with them everyday.

God doesn't decide to show His grace or mercy to someone, because they have done some good work or earned merit points. The Bible never teaches that anywhere, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

So God only shows grace, mercy and love to those He chose to save, the wrath of God abides on the rest. Nobody finds favour with God, through their works.
Why do you keep bringing up works based salvation? That’s not even remotely associated with the topic of my post.
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Who then can be saved?

My understanding is that Eastern Orthodox Theology, claims that a saved person can lose his salvation. I reject that view, because Jesus opposed it, when He said in, ---

John 6:39 "all that the Father gives Me shall come to Me Now this is the will of the One having sent Me, that all that He has given Me, I should lose none of it, but will raise it up in the last day.

I'm not sure how the Eastern Orthodox get around this verse which clearly exposes their theology. I'm sure you agree that Jesus is speaking about the "elect of God" here. Who else would have the Father given Him to save, surely not the children of the Devil.

The Roman Catholic & Eastern Orthodox Church, hold to the same theology, which holds to the works based salvation, version of the gospel. While the Protestant Church holds to the grace based gospel. I can find may verses to support the "saved by grace" gospel, but I can't find a single evrse to support the "saved by works" version of the gospel.
I don’t know how we got on works based salvation other than that’s the typical derailment from the real issue. The fact is that Jesus specifically said that some will believe for a while then fall away. And the EOC doesn’t teach that we are saved by works that’s just a misrepresentation of their actual theology.
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Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

I didn't propose public executions; I said I don't think private executions are so much better. It is you who wants executions, not I.
We are talking about Hamas executing, without a trial, 7 to people by shooting them in the head in a public setting. You did not object to that and are still think that there is no difference. I find that problematic and hypocritical. You have still nit condemned Hamas for killing their own people.
Animals are a part of society.
Not the human animals that murder men, women, and children. Unless you think that those should live among us.
No, you didn't say why then, but you have now.

Why is that a fail? You're comparing a battlefield execution - which is not necessarily either illegal or without cause particularly in a place without any courts or courthouses left standing - nothing but rubble. Most private places have been blown to smithereens. I thought the cause given was collaborating with the enemy, which, as treason, would be cause for execution here as well, theoretically.
Hamas did not conduct a battlefield execution. They murdered people that they thought were against them without a trial. You do not condone any kind of execution according to your earlier post but condone the murder of seven people accused, not convicted, for being collaborators. That is why your argument fails.
How is being shot in the head more barbaric than South Carolina's firing squad? Is it really so much more civilized to shoot them in the torso? Texas still hangs people - how is that less barbaric?
Because these are judicial, legal executions. Look, as I stated before, if you are opposed to capital punishment that us your choice but at least be consistent.
And I want to see world peace. I condemn Hamas for executing their own citizens just as I condemn all nations that do so.
Great. That wasn’t that hard was it?
Apparently, it's not the "executing their own citizens" that is the real sticking point, as you support it when it's done "properly". Again, I think executing neighboring citizens or even citizens from the other side of the world is more egregious than executing one's own.
It’s all about the context and legality.
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U.S. Releases Video of Attack on Semi-Submersible and Sends Survivors Home

That doesn’t sound like you agree that users are to blame for the drug problem. But many illegal narcotics don’t leave you relatively sane, especially meth
But meth is (mostly) a homegrown drug.
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Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

Know who you are supporting:

The original 1988 Hamas Charter includes deeply antisemitic language, referencing conspiracy theories and calling for the destruction of Israel. It states that “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it” and refers to Jews in hostile, conspiratorial terms.
The charter also promotes jihad as a religious duty and glorifies martyrdom, stating: “Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”.

  • Fathi Hammad, a senior Hamas official, said in a 2019 speech:

  • Oh, you Jews, the curse of Allah upon you, you who have angered Allah. The day of your slaughter and annihilation is near.”
From the Hamas 1988 charter:

“The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, killing the Jews.”
1) Do you even know what a jihad is?

2) Sunni Arabs well understand just how bad Hamas is. That is why they were shocked when ISRAEL helped them to come to power in Gaza.

That is why the Sunnis have quietly celebrated the defeat of Shia terrorist by Israel (and sometimes even ISIS Sunni terrorists).
==========
The US has been trying to broker a long-term truce for decades and only has succeeded with Egypt and Jordan. A Palestine state was offered to Arafat; he refused.

TRUMP has ignored the internal politics of the Arab countries and has focused on world interest for a lasting peace. With God's help, the Abraham Accords will expend to Suadi Arabia and the Arab countries will be willing to CONTINUE to oppose Shiite terrorists in Gaza and the West bank/
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U.S. Releases Video of Attack on Semi-Submersible and Sends Survivors Home

If they actually contained large quantities of illegal drugs I can see how you could argue that destroying them is a good thing, but the legality is questionable and I don’t think that Venezuela is where the majority of drugs come from
Okay we’re more-or-less in agreement here.
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The Economist: Trump's approval rating crashes!

How is that supposed to demonstrate that the right engages in little else other than sensationalism? It just shows the left has a clutter of media sources most likely trying to out do one another. Is the Wall Street Journal and Christianity Today supposedly known for sensationalism?

Did you read the whole graph when I linked to it earlier?

The horizontal axis is what you would think of with regards to left-right political orientation.

The vertical axis is the spectrum of facts-opinion, with pure fact reporting (e.g. AP, Reuters) at the very top and conspiratorial nonsense at the bottom. That the region I circled is so empty points to the fact that there are few outlets on the right doing traditional journalism or thoughtful, fact-based analysis. The whole right side of the graph is skewed lower.


Also Sky News being over on the left makes to sense whatsoever. One of their most popular segments is called "Lefties Losing It".
I don't know. They have Jimmy Dore over on the left, and he's pretty Trumpy.
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Not quite sure of the cultural references there?
I don’t much care for President Trump various policies, but he’s still my President and will defend him as the incumbent president to do the job he does where I can, from good, well-meaning foreigners.
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About Jesus being the only way?

-
No nothing about nations just the dead which are unbelievers

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Well, Christians are divided on this issue, just so you know, ok. Some think that Matthew 25:31-32 (and on from there) (about the sheep and the goats) is also about the GWTJ just so you know, etc.

I told you what I think in post #53, and I'm sticking with that because it's the only thing that fits with the rest of (entirety, taken as a whole) God's Word, etc.

God Bless.
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Orthodox Anglicans create new communion renouncing ties to archbishop of Canterbury

GAFCON are mostly Evangelical Anglicans, and the most likely to be actually anti-Catholic.

You're actually more likely to find more sympathies for Roman Catholicism among those critical of GAFCON, to the contrary.

GAFCON, and even the Archbishop of Canterburry, have very limited influence on actual Episcopalians and Anglicans worldwide. Anglican ecclessiology is not dependent on having uniformity or even fellowship or communion with any particular primate. GAFCON is strictly a case of party politics, principally driven by certain radicals, attempting to assert themselves as "authoritative", "orthodox" voices.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

My theology is in line with 2000 years of Church history,

Yes, I agree. The philosophy that a Catholic priest can make water Holy is also in line with 2000 years of Church History. The teaching that mortal men will never die or be destroyed, but will live forever, is also a theology that is in line with many different religions and churches and has for centuries. There are many traditions and philosophies that are in line with "church" history. The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time also promoted a theology that was inline with thousands of years of "church history".

But what I am advocating is that a man consider what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures. Not just one verse here or there that can be separated from the rest of the Bible, them "wrested" to support whatever religious philosophy that has been adopted. But to consider "Every Word of God" knowing that God doesn't contradict Himself.

What exists that God didn't create, besides Himself? How can I exist "apart from God"? Where does all conscious life come from? Where can I live, that God cannot see me? There is nowhere in the Bible where it is written that God raises a man from the dead who know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;

And then grant them eternal conscious LIFE to suffer with the same immortal who deceived Eve into believing, "thou shall surely not die".

The God "of the Bible" doesn't sup[port such a theology.
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About Jesus being the only way?

Yeah, but it says all nations will be gathered before him at the GWT, and that he will separate the sheep from the goats and that the sheep from among those will be saved though?

Whether it's already known which are which before that happens or not doesn't matter, since the sheep from among those ones will be saved, unless you're saying they won't be, etc?
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No nothing about nations just the dead which are unbelievers

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
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Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

Really? I guess all executions should happen in front of people including kids. I agree with the death penalty and you have your right to your opinion but proposing public executions again is reverting back quite a few years. Animals that kill people have no business being part of society.
I didn't propose public executions; I said I don't think private executions are so much better. It is you who wants executions, not I.

Animals are a part of society.
I told you why but you dismissed it without explanation.
No, you didn't say why then, but you have now.
It is a fail because you are comparing a legal, for cause criminal execution with a barbaric, illegal execution in a public place.
Why is that a fail? You're comparing a battlefield execution - which is not necessarily either illegal or without cause particularly in a place without any courts or courthouses left standing - nothing but rubble. Most private places have been blown to smithereens. I thought the cause given was collaborating with the enemy, which, as treason, would be cause for execution here as well, theoretically.

How is being shot in the head more barbaric than South Carolina's firing squad? Is it really so much more civilized to shoot them in the torso? Texas still hangs people - how is that less barbaric?
No. I want to see you condemn Hamas for their barbaric actions.
And I want to see world peace. I condemn Hamas for executing their own citizens just as I condemn all nations that do so.

Apparently, it's not the "executing their own citizens" that is the real sticking point, as you support it when it's done "properly". Again, I think executing neighboring citizens or even citizens from the other side of the world is more egregious than executing one's own.
There is a difference between executions after a judicial process with several decades worth of appeals and just accusing people and shooting them like dogs in the street.
Yeah, a lot of people here don't get several decades worth of appeals while others do. Three decades is the record so far for longest and less than a year the record for shortest in Texas:

According to TDCJ's Death Row Facts page, the average length of time spent on death row prior to execution is 11 years, the shortest time on death row prior to execution was 252 days and the longest time spent on death row before an execution was 31 years. The average age of inmates executed is 39 and the youngest man executed was at age 24.
(Beaumont Enterprise link)
I don't agree with either, but I recognise that they are not equivalent.
There is also a difference between a [somewhat] stable, first world country at peace and a occupied, war torn country that's been largely destroyed. Even the US has separate laws for peacetime and wartime battlefield executions.
Do you believe Hamas implementing capital punishment to its citizens without trial is equivalent to the US judicial process, where a unanimous verdict from twelve jurors is required for capital punishment?
Do you think the situations of the two governments are equivalent? Does Gaza even have courts now?

The US with all its courts and lawyers have nevertheless executed innocent people even if it did take its own sweet time with it. Remember, the Supreme Court ruled that actual innocence is not sufficient cause to stay the death penalty if procedure was followed.

Please note, I am not defending Hamas' executing its own citizens but equally condemning our doing so. "Its own citizens" is not the sticking point; obviously, the actual problem with so many are defending executions per se, it's perhaps the lack of due process?
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Is Romans 3:25 in the Greek in ANY manuscript version the same? (Some who knows greek - help)

We need to take all of scripture into account, lest we come up with multiple gospels.
I do agree that we need to take all of scripture into account, so that we aren't creating opposing views. Truth has to be consistent.

Faith in christ is general, faith in the blood is more specific, it's the mechanism so to speak of receiving the propititaion and hence, salvation, no?
There are other instances where Christ alludes to a relationship as being key too when it comes to salvation (abiding in the vine so you don't wither and die, where Jesus tells those who practice lawlessness that he doesn't "know" them). I view it like this...
  • Salvation = Relationship with Christ (Which at the core includes faith. You can't have a relationship without faith. That makes no sense.)
  • Understanding atonement/justification is for knowledge and not a requirement of salvation.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." -John 5:24

Jesus never taught about his blood. He gave symbolic references to it and essentially tied it in passover with him being the sacrificial lamb during the last supper but he never once said to believe in atonement of what he does, he constantly says to believe in Him. Could you believe in his blood that cleansed us? Sure, but it's not necessary or a requirement for salvation, just a nuance for understanding what Christ did on the cross and how it applies to the laws requirements.

If understanding the nuances of what Christ did/does for us is a requirement for salvation, then that would have been repeated several times, at least by Jesus. Because then the question of how successful his ministry was comes into question when you have instances of his preaching and teaching crowds that he never mentions anything about his blood, or atonement. Instead, he consistently just refers back to himself being the way the truth and the life.
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Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

I am a child of Abraham by faith. I am of the elect, spiritual seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I am a child of the promise like them. Race has nothing to do with this.
I agree.
But many people cannot get over how ethnic Israel is no longer of any value or purpose for Salvation. In fact it never was.

God will keep His Promises to the Patriarchs of their descendants inheriting all of the Holy Land, by their faith in God. ALSO by their actual descent, as everyone alive now, has some of their genes.
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What does the Temple in Ezekiel 40-41 represent?

It points to a time future to the days of Ezekiel where God would still have been promoting animal sacrifices as being a type pointing forward to the time when Christ would come and die for our sins, the once for all sacrifice for sins.

Since the temple described was never built before Christ died (and ended all sacrifice and offerings,) then this text above describes one of the two future scenarios (the success path) that did not happen due to God's people rejecting his purpose for them, similarly to what we see them doing in Luke 7.

Luke 7:
30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Are there any other prophecies you can think of that promised something conditionally, but the conditions were never mentioned? It would make this option more plausible if there are such conditional promises given without explicitly stating the condition.


Another question: do you believe in the unlimited omniscience of God or in limited omniscience? This connects to the prophecy in the sense that if God has unlimited omniscience, then He would have known that the sacrifices would end before this temple was ever built.
Notice that Heb 10 declares the end of all animal sacrifice and offerings

Heb 10:
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The text clearly says all animal sacrifices and offering lose their legitimacy at the cross because they were taken over by the once for all sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

Heb 10 goes on to say this.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, (NASB)

It says animal sacrifices were still going on in Jerusalem as of the writing of Heb 10 but they did nothing. The Heb 8 third temple , in heaven, with Christ as High Priest
This tends to lead me toward the metephore interpretation of the passage.
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Do Your Actions Speaks Louder then your knowledge?

There is no Scripture that say one command deletes everything God ever said Jesus told us to live by Mat4:4 but suit yourself.
But for those with eyes to see, there is a new command (Jn 13:34) that is greater (love one another as I have loved you) than the law of Moses (do no harm), and which completely supercedes it as it necessarily fulfills it (Ro 13:8-10).
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