• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Do Your Actions Speaks Louder then your knowledge?

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,042
5,650
USA
✟735,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I guess I’ll take this as you being unable to post a post crucifixion verse that commands the Christian to follow the 4th commandment.
Every time we see keeping God's commandments in the NT it includes the 4th commandment. Exo20:6 Deut4:13 No man has the ability to delete part of God's Testimony they don't like. Mat5:18-19 Deut4:2 Choosing to ignore it does not make it go away; it just covers it Pro28:13 John3:19-21

I do not need a commandment to obey God, He wrote His laws in my heart. Obedience is about love. Why we see Sabbath keeping pre-and post the Cross for God's faithful and for eternity in Scripture.

Be well.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
36,683
4,955
On the bus to Heaven
✟135,855.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Every time we see keeping God's commandments in the NT it includes the 4th commandment. Exo20:6 Deut4:13 No man has the ability to delete part of God's Testimony they don't like. Mat5:18-19 Deut4:2 Choosing to ignore it does not make it go away; it just covers it Pro28:13 John3:19-21
Jesus was a man and He was fully God. He can change what He pleases and he did. As we have spoken many times before the old covenant is finished and completed and the new covenant has different terms.
I do not need a commandment to obey God, He wrote His laws in my heart. Obedience is about love. Why we see Sabbath keeping pre-and post the Cross for God's faithful and for eternity in Scripture.
You don’t see it at all after the crucifixion. The redurrrction ushered in the new covenant and the time if the gentiles. Obey Jesus two commandments which do not include the old 4th commandment.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,042
5,650
USA
✟735,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Jesus was a man and He was fully God. He can change what He pleases and he did.
But yet He promised He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 why would He, He promises it continues for eternity Isa66:22-23 because it connects to His identify as the God who has the power to Create heaven and earth and the only God who has the power to sanctify man. Eze20:12 Exo20:11 this is the God we are told to get back to worship in the NC Rev14:7 before its too late. Rev22:11
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
36,683
4,955
On the bus to Heaven
✟135,855.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
But yet He promised He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 why would He, He promises it continues for eternity Isa66:22-23 because it connects to His identify as the God who has the power to Create heaven and earth and the only God who has the power to sanctify man. Eze20:12 Exo20:11 this is the God we are told to get back to worship in the NC Rev14:7 before its too late. Rev22:11
What you are not understanding is that actually not a letter of the law will pass for those still in the old covenant. All promises to the house of Israel including those in Heb. 8 are still unfulfilled until the end of the time if the gentiles. But none of the law applies to the Christian (Gal. 3).

All OT scripture is Christological and teaches us why we need Christ. However, the audience was always Israel. Jesus preached to the Jews first (Rom. 1:16) so most of the pre crucifixion scriptures emphasize teachings to them. Matt.5 is a perfect example. The terms of the new covenant in blood for the Christians began at the time of the crucifixion and resurrection. This covenant of blood has its own terms including Jesus as our sabbath rest. So find a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the old covenant 4th commandment.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,042
5,650
USA
✟735,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
What you are not understanding is that actually not a letter of the law will pass for those still in the old covenant. All promises to the house of Israel including those in Heb. 8 are still unfulfilled until the end of the time if the gentiles. But none of the law applies to the Christian (Gal. 3).

All OT scripture is Christological and teaches us why we need Christ. However, the audience was always Israel. Jesus preached to the Jews first (Rom. 1:16) so most of the pre crucifixion scriptures emphasize teachings to them. Matt.5 is a perfect example. The terms of the new covenant in blood for the Christians began at the time of the crucifixion and resurrection. This covenant of blood has its own terms including Jesus as our sabbath rest. So find a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the old covenant 4th commandment.
There is no Scripture that says Jesus turned into the 4th commandment so we do not need to keep it.

Mat5:17 Jesus told us He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill.

What prophecy did Jesus fulfill

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

The definition for the word He used to magnify His law

gâdal
gaw-dal'
A primitive root; properly to twist (compare H1434), that is, to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride): - advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be (-come, do, give, make, wax), great (-er, come to . . estate, + things), grow (up), increase, lift up, magnify (-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly [spoken], tower.

But sadly people twist this into the opposite, that He came to end the law, when Jesus so plainly said the opposite

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [b]jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Heaven and earth are still here, and not all is fulfilled like:

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Jesus did not destroy all the prophecies in the Book of Mat 24 or Isaiah or Revelation or Daniel etc, that has yet to be fulfilled, therefore not a jot or tittle shall pass from the law

Why He said plainly

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

According to the next verse least in heaven means not there.

Jesus went on to fulfill the prophecy in Isa42:21 to show what it means to magnify His laws which means make greater, not smaller

21 “You have heard that it was said to those [d]of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [e]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’[f] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

Jesus is teaching the heart of the issue, why He wrote His laws in the heart because if the heart is changed thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. This applies to all of the commandments why Jesus said plainly not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and they apply to all Ten because God wrote Ten Commandments, no any other number Deut4:13 Exo34:28 heaven and earth are still here, sin is still in the world, therefore so is God's holy and eternal laws the way He said. Exo31:18

If we are breaking the letter of the law its impossible to be walking in the Spirit. Paul contrasts this several times - not being subject to the law of God is the carnal mind Rom8:7-8 the spiritual mind has the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us where no one would be worshipping another god, or using His name in an unholy manner, or bowing to images, or breaking His holy Sabbath day, or stealing or lying or breaking the least of these just as Jesus said. Mat5:19
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
36,683
4,955
On the bus to Heaven
✟135,855.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There is no Scripture that says Jesus turned into the 4th commandment so we do not need to keep it.
Sure is. He is the Lord of the Sabbath and our sabbath rest. I already printed the scripture which you did not address.
Mat5:17 Jesus told us He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill.

What prophecy did Jesus fulfill

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
He did indeed magnify the law because He was the ONLY person that kept it perfectly. The prophesy is indeed realized in Jesus.

You keep defining the law incorrectly. The law includes all 613 of the Mosaic law including the Ten Commandments.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,042
5,650
USA
✟735,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Sure is. He is the Lord of the Sabbath and our sabbath rest. I already printed the scripture which you did not address.
You never posted one verse that says Jesus abrogated His Sabbath commandment and took back what He promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19
He did indeed magnify the law because He was the ONLY person that kept it perfectly.
You added what is not in the Scripture. Mat5:19 does not say because He kept the law, we do not need to. Jesus plainly said something else. He doesn't even make us do so on our own John14:15-18 but it does require our love and cooperation.
The prophesy is indeed realized in Jesus.

You keep defining the law incorrectly. The law includes all 613 of the Mosaic law including the Ten Commandments.
I think God said what He meant and meant what He said. I think God knows the difference between 613 and Ten or 9.

The number God said was Ten and He added no more- who are we to add to or take from the Testimony of God, written by God Exo31:18

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The law of Moses is a separate covenant Deut 31:24-31 God's Ten Commandments predates Moses according to the Testimony of God Exo20:11

Anyway, its time for me to move on. I wish you well.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
36,683
4,955
On the bus to Heaven
✟135,855.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You never posted one verse that says Jesus abrogated His Sabbath commandment and took back what He promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19
The whole of Hebrews 4 explains this. Secondly, He fulfilled (completed) the law not abrogated the law, wrong word and action.

You need to stop posting the same verses over and over again that I have already refuted. All of us have access to the same scriptures so the problem is not the scriptures but your interpretation of them.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,042
5,650
USA
✟735,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
but your interpretation of them.
Its best not to re-interpret, just believe as God plainly stated. You can search all of Hebrews 4 and you will not find one verse that says Jesus is our Sabbath, not one verse that says the Sabbath commandment is abrogated. Its mainly quoting OT and in order to make a change in Hebrews 30 years after the death of Christ would require His sacrifice all over again.

Also, God blessed, man can't reverse, so one would need a thus saith the Lord Num23:20 so back to what I said there is no one Scripture in the entire Bible that says the Sabbath commandment was abrogated.

I guess this will get sorted out at His soon return. I wish you nothing but love and happiness.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
36,683
4,955
On the bus to Heaven
✟135,855.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It’s best not to re-interpret, just believe as God plainly stated.
In other words as you interpret them.
You can search all of Hebrews 4 and you will not find one verse that says Jesus is our Sabbath, not one verse that says the Sabbath commandment is abrogated.
Wrong word again. Jesus IS our rest. It’s simple and clear. Read Heb. 4 without your rose color glasses and biases.
 
Upvote 0