Would God Really Send Someone to Hell?

[David Collins]

Let's try this again.
I'll try to be more clear this time. - LOL

Yes, God is love.

I don't accept the Janus-faced idea that God has an evil flip side. (a God of Wrath and Vengeance)

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

Read the Bible. God definitely is a God of wrath.

 

[Saint Steven]

Read the Bible. God definitely is a God of wrath.

That's a cheap shot. (ouch)
Don't you wonder why I don't buy that?

 

[Der Alte]

What Bible did he use, the 1611KJV?

The YLT was supposedly translated from the original languages by self-taught Robert Young.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Read the Bible. God definitely is a God of wrath.

Really? He also knows how to reform sinners.
Re:7:17:
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:
and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Re:21:4:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death,
neither sorrow,
nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.

 

[Jipsah]

You will have to make a case from The Bible that second death means ceasing to exist.

The wages of sin is what again? The Bible says it's death. Believers in eternal conscious torment say it's eternal life in torment. The Bible contrasts Eternal Life and Death. ECT folks say everybody has eternal life no matter what, some in Heaven, most in hell.

Be good enough to show me anywhere in the Bible where it says that everyone has eternal life.

Just saying that, that is what it means can not be a reason to believe that unbelievers will cease to exist.

Dead is, like, you know, dead. As in "the soul that sins will die". Remember our Lord's admonition: "Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.". Destroy means destroy, although ECT folks will argue that God either can't destroy body and soul so "destroy" as use there must Really Mean something else, or that God would never actually destroy anyone, which means our Lord was either wrong or was making an idle threat. I think it means what it says.

 

[Saint Steven]

Dead is, like, you know, dead.

Do you differentiate between physical and spiritual death?

 

[Der Alte]

Really? He also knows how to reform sinners.
Re:7:17:
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:
and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Re:21:4:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death,
neither sorrow,
nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.

Several years ago I was flying to the east coast on official business for my employer DOD, the person sitting in the seat next to me was reading the Bible. To start a conversation I said, "That's a good book I like how it ends." He smiled then I said "You are a military aviator." He was surprised and said "Do I have a sign on my forehead?" I said "No, the glasses and haircut." I had the same glasses and haircut.
Now having said all that. I have read the end of the book.

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Ten more vss. the end! No more death, no more salvation only, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still."

 

[YahuahSaves]

Where is The Bible clear that second death means an unbeliever no longer exist.

Other than the previous scripture I noted that says the lake of fire [is] the second death, here it says it plainly what happens to those who don't believe.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Luke is unclear when it says:

Luke 12:5

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

But Matthew is clear:

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Destroy definition: to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Robert Young who "wrote" the YLT was self-taught in Hebrew and Greek. Would you go to a doctor who was self-taught? I wouldn't. The Young's Literal Translation is called "literal' by the author not by any body of learned scholars. Caveat emptor.

I didn't say his translation was literal, I said it's the closest English translation, and so is the KJV, but there are errors in both.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Several years ago I was flying to the east coast on official business for my employer DOD, the person sitting in the seat next to me was reading the Bible. To start a conversation I said, "That's a good book I like how it ends." He smiled then I said "You are a military aviator." He was surprised and said "Do I have a sign on my forehead?" I said "No, the glasses and haircut." I had the same glasses and haircut.
Now having said all that. I have read the end of the book.

Revelation 22:11​

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Ten more vss. the end! No more death, no more salvation only, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still."

I would have said the Bible never ends. New Jerusalem landing on this earth (when it looks like a polished ball of glass thanks to the fire God used when sending fallen angels to the lake) The area outside of New Jerusalem will be called the 'courtyard'. The people that enter thanks to the Great White Throne exit the city. They would be 'a small group' and they are given in marriage and taken to starts all across the universe to start a home that is the sinless version of what Adam and Eve were tasked with. Fast-forward to when the Universe looks like Eden and the group assembled there would fill the courtyard so full not another person could be added. It is at that point the people that have been in the city all that times ascend to Mount Sion from Hebrews:12 as that is where sinless angels ascend to.
Isa:65 new earth verses pick the story up from where Re:22 leave it.

Asked the same question, I would hand him the Bible and ask him to read Ge:1-2 ad Re:20-22 and ask him if the beginning is better than the ending as that covers the sinful earth's beginning and end. When he gives me the Bible back I would then add, 'If you want to read more, Ge:3:15 has two bruises mentioned, Ge:4-Re:19 is how God goes about setting things up so both are completed before the day He resurrects the two witnesses.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

You are taking that verse out of context.

Revelation 22:10-11

10 Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”

 

[Wayne Gabler]

I didn't say his translation was literal, I said it's the closest English translation, and so is the KJV, but there are errors in both.

I found an error in the 1611KJV.
This, 'mount Sion' should be this, 'Mount Sion'.
Good help is so hard to find.

There is a companion reference in the OT that fits with the warning about changing any word in the whole Bible.
De:4:1-2:
Now therefore hearken,
O Israel,
unto the statutes and unto the judgments,
which I teach you,
for to do them,
that ye may live,
and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you,
neither shall ye diminish ought from it,
that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

 

[Saint Steven]

You are taking that verse out of context.

Revelation 22:10-11

10 Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”

Curious as to what you think that scripture means. Thanks.

 

[Der Alte]

You are taking that verse out of context.
Revelation 22:10-11
10 Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”

You have not demonstrated that my quote is "out-of-context." Vs. ten does not change anything.

 

[Der Alte]

I would have said the Bible never ends. New Jerusalem landing on this earth (when it looks like a polished ball of glass thanks to the fire God used when sending fallen angels to the lake) The area outside of New Jerusalem will be called the 'courtyard'. The people that enter thanks to the Great White Throne exit the city. They would be 'a small group' and they are given in marriage and taken to starts all across the universe to start a home that is the sinless version of what Adam and Eve were tasked with. Fast-forward to when the Universe looks like Eden and the group assembled there would fill the courtyard so full not another person could be added. It is at that point the people that have been in the city all that times ascend to Mount Sion from Hebrews:12 as that is where sinless angels ascend to.
Isa:65 new earth verses pick the story up from where Re:22 leave it.
Asked the same question, I would hand him the Bible and ask him to read Ge:1-2 ad Re:20-22 and ask him if the beginning is better than the ending as that covers the sinful earth's beginning and end. When he gives me the Bible back I would then add, 'If you want to read more, Ge:3:15 has two bruises mentioned, Ge:4-Re:19 is how God goes about setting things up so both are completed before the day He resurrects the two witnesses.

I didn't ask a question, I made a comment simply as a conversation starter.. All of this is very easy for us. We have multiple electronic devices with a plethora of available resources and we can take vss. from various books and make them say almost anything. Rev. was addressed to seven churches; Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea filled with former pagan Christians. The book of Rev. had to make sense to them, as is.

 

[d taylor]

Other than the previous scripture I noted that says the lake of fire [is] the second death, here it says it plainly what happens to those who don't believe.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Luke is unclear when it says:

Luke 12:5

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

But Matthew is clear:

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Destroy definition: to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.

Matthew 10:28 states that God is able, but does that mean that God does.

 

[d taylor]

The wages of sin is what again? The Bible says it's death. Believers in eternal conscious torment say it's eternal life in torment. The Bible contrasts Eternal Life and Death. ECT folks say everybody has eternal life no matter what, some in Heaven, most in hell.

Be good enough to show me anywhere in the Bible where it says that everyone has eternal life.

Dead is, like, you know, dead. As in "the soul that sins will die". Remember our Lord's admonition: "Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.". Destroy means destroy, although ECT folks will argue that God either can't destroy body and soul so "destroy" as use there must Really Mean something else, or that God would never actually destroy anyone, which means our Lord was either wrong or was making an idle threat. I think it means what it says.

-​

Matthew 10:28 states that God is able, but does that mean that God does.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Curious as to what you think that scripture means. Thanks.

There are 66 "books" in the bible. So, it's a "compilation" of writings, yes?

Read what the verse actually says, to not add or subtract from "this book" the words of prophecy.

Do you think everything written in the bible is considered "prophecy"?

In the scripture a poster quoted further up, it's talking about the Israelites following the instructions set by God.
"decrees and regulations" are not prophecy.

Deuteronomy 4:1-2
Moses Urges Israel to Obey

4 “And now, Israel, listen carefully to these decrees and regulations that I am about to teach you. Obey them so that you may live, so you may enter and occupy the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 Do not add to or subtract from these commands I am giving you. Just obey the commands of the Lord your God that I am giving you.

P.s. I'm not suggesting we do add or subtract from scripture, but it says what it says.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Matthew 10:28 states that God is able, but does that mean that God does.

Numbers 23:19

19 God is not a man, so he does not lie.
He is not human, so he does not change his mind.
Has he ever spoken and failed to act?
Has he ever promised and not carried it through?

 

[YahuahSaves]

You have not demonstrated that my quote is "out-of-context." Vs. ten does not change anything.

Verse ten changes everything if you're trying to prove eternal suffering with that verse.

Revelation 22:10-11

10 Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”

Who was Jesus instructing? Revelation was "near" to being fulfilled (beginning with the destruction of the temple in 70AD). Revelation has been an unfolding of God's judgement and there are parts yet to be fulfilled. But that particular verse means let everyone continue as they are, (don't do anything) for it is God who will be executing justice.