Would God Really Send Someone to Hell?

[Der Alte]

I found an error in the 1611KJV.
This, 'mount Sion' should be this, 'Mount Sion'.
Good help is so hard to find.

There is a companion reference in the OT that fits with the warning about changing any word in the whole Bible.
De:4:1-2:
Now therefore hearken,
O Israel,
unto the statutes and unto the judgments,
which I teach you,
for to do them,
that ye may live,
and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you,
neither shall ye diminish ought from it,
that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

The original manuscripts did not have any capital letters.

 

[Der Alte]

Verse ten changes everything if you're trying to prove eternal suffering with that verse.
Who was Jesus instructing? Revelation was "near" to being fulfilled (beginning with the destruction of the temple in 70AD). Revelation has been an unfolding of God's judgement and there are parts yet to be fulfilled. But that particular verse means let everyone continue as they are, (don't do anything) for it is God who will be executing justice.

I was not trying to prove "eternal punishment," which is the Biblical term not "eternal suffering." I was arguing against universal reconciliation.

Revelation 22:11​

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Ten more vss. the end! No more death, no more salvation, only, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still."

 

[YahuahSaves]

I was not trying to prove "eternal punishment," which is the Biblical term not "eternal suffering." I was arguing against universal reconciliation.

Don't you believe the lake of fire is an eternal torture chamber? Correct me if I'm wrong about my assumption.

Yes, the biblical term is punishment not suffering, Thank you for the distinction.

 

[Der Alte]

Don't you believe the lake of fire is an eternal torture chamber? Correct me if I'm wrong about my assumption.
Yes, the biblical term is punishment not suffering, Thank you for the distinction.

Irrelevant. That particular comment did not address "eternal punishment." As I said, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:" No universal reconciliation.
Rev 21:4 no more death Rev 21:8, eight groups of sinners thrown into the lake of fire, which is still called the second death, if there is no more death after vs. 4 what happens to them?

 

[Jipsah]

Matthew 10:28 states that God is able, but does that mean that God does.

So you reckon our Lord's warning was meaningless, then? "Yeah, He can destroy you!", then turning aside He says "but He won't".

Me? I reckon He meant precisely what He said. I'm willing to let my doctrine follow the Scripture rather than finagling the Scripture to favor my doctrine.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Irrelevant. That particular comment did not address "eternal punishment." As I said, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:" No universal reconciliation.
Rev 21:4 no more death Rev 21:8, eight groups of sinners thrown into the lake of fire, which is still called the second death, if there is no more death after vs. 4 what happens to them?

I addressed it.

I was not trying to prove "eternal punishment,"

Answer the question below.

Who was Jesus instructing? Revelation was "near" to being fulfilled (beginning with the destruction of the temple in 70AD). Revelation has been an unfolding of God's judgement and there are parts yet to be fulfilled. But that particular verse means let everyone continue as they are, (don't do anything) for it is God who will be executing justice.

Read Revelation 21:1-8 it talks about what the children of God will inherit if they are victorious.

Revelation 21:7-8

7 All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.

8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[Wayne Gabler]

I didn't ask a question, I made a comment simply as a conversation starter.. All of this is very easy for us. We have multiple electronic devices with a plethora of available resources and we can take vss. from various books and make them say almost anything. Rev. was addressed to seven churches; Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea filled with former pagan Christians. The book of Rev. had to make sense to them, as is.

The 7 Churches were created by the beloved Disciple of John the Baptist that left Judea when Stephen was killed. Paul was prevented from teaching there, he was sent to Rome instead.
Do we agree on that part?

M't:28:1:
In the end of the sabbath,
as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

The original manuscripts did not have any capital letters.

Or reference text like Ge:1:1 The 1611KJV used all caps when it was a holy name. Anybody with authority over you was 'lord', being Christ or God it was Lord. If it was all caps, it war referencing Ge:1:1 only. Such as God and GOD. Jesus plays a role when He resurrects all the ones Eze:37 is referencing.
Psalms:110:1:
The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

My version has the spelling update, but it kept the original preface, you know, the one that starts out like this:
THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER
Zeal to promote the common good, whether it be by devising anything ourselves, or revising that which hath been laboured by others, deserveth certainly much respect and esteem, but yet findeth but cold entertainment in the world. It is welcomed with suspicion instead of love, and with emulation instead of thanks: and if there be any hole left for cavil to enter, (and cavil, if it do not find a hole, will make one) it is sure to be misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned.

 

[returntosender]

Then, you need to read scripture more deeply my friend.

I've studied it. Works or how good we are doesn't get us to heaven

 

[Lost4words]

I've studied it. Works or how good we are doesn't get us to heaven

Right...so, if i was a Christian and a serial killer i could get into heaven easily?

 

[Saint Steven]

There are 66 "books" in the bible. So, it's a "compilation" of writings, yes?

Read what the verse actually says, to not add or subtract from "this book" the words of prophecy.

Do you think everything written in the bible is considered "prophecy"?

I like how the NIV uses the word "scroll". Which makes it clearer to me.
Reason being, our Bible is a single bound book. But...

The scriptures of that time were separate scrolls. One or more for each book.
So, the scriptures have never been one single scroll.

Revelation 22:18-19 NIV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

 

[ozso]

They die, as in actually die. They not only don't exist, they never existed. They never received the gift of eternal life, so they don't live eternally, in any form, anywhere. Saying "they don't have eternal life but they're gonna live forever anyway" is nonsense.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". Romans 6:23

How is that to be interpreted?

The wages of sin is death, however everyone is going to live forever anyway?

Eternal life is a gift through Christ Jesus our Lord, however everyone is going to live forever anyway?

 

[David Collins]

Really? He also knows how to reform sinners.
Re:7:17:
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:
and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Re:21:4:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death,
neither sorrow,
nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.

He knows how to do that, yes. But that doesn't mean he isn't also a God of Wrath and Vengeance.

That's a cheap shot. (ouch)

How so?

Don't you wonder why I don't buy that?

Hosea 9:15​

“All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.”

Here he says he hates them and will love them no more. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

He knows how to do that, yes. But that doesn't mean he isn't also a God of Wrath and Vengeance.

The 7 vials are based on the plagues Moses was involved in as well as the same fire that melted Sodom. That is nothing compared to the wrath of God that sends Satan and the remaining fallen angels to the fiery lake.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Right...so, if i was a Christian and a serial killer i could get into heaven easily?

Here is the Scripture that goes with your comment, lol.

Ro:6:15:
What then?
shall we sin,
because we are not under the law,
but under grace?
God forbid.

 

[David Collins]

Right...so, if i was a Christian and a serial killer i could get into heaven easily?

Some people speculate Jeffrey Dahmer made it to heaven. Only God knows though.

 

[David Collins]

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". Romans 6:23

How is that to be interpreted?

The wages of sin is death, however everyone is going to live forever anyway?

Eternal life is a gift through Christ Jesus our Lord, however everyone is going to live forever anyway?

Eternal life for those who believe in Jesus.

 

[Der Alte]

The 7 Churches were created by the beloved Disciple of John the Baptist that left Judea when Stephen was killed. Paul was prevented from teaching there, he was sent to Rome instead.
Do we agree on that part?
M't:28:1:
In the end of the sabbath,
as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

I agree that Paul was sent to Rome but fail to see how it is relevant to this particular discussion. I also don't see the relevance of Matt 28:1.

Or reference text like Ge:1:1 The 1611KJV used all caps when it was a holy name. Anybody with authority over you was 'lord', being Christ or God it was Lord. If it was all caps, it war referencing Ge:1:1 only. Such as God and GOD. Jesus plays a role when He resurrects all the ones Eze:37 is referencing.
Psalms:110:1:
The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

My version has the spelling update, but it kept the original preface, you know, the one that starts out like this:
THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER
Zeal to promote the common good, whether it be by devising anything ourselves, or revising that which hath been laboured by others, deserveth certainly much respect and esteem, but yet findeth but cold entertainment in the world. It is welcomed with suspicion instead of love, and with emulation instead of thanks: and if there be any hole left for cavil to enter, (and cavil, if it do not find a hole, will make one) it is sure to be misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned.

You are correct but I was talking about the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. Capitalization and punctuation was not in the original it was added by translators and may or may not be correct.

 

[Der Alte]

I addressed it.
Answer the question below.
Read Revelation 21:1-8 it talks about what the children of God will inherit if they are victorious.
Revelation 21:7-8
7 All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.
8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

How does this refute anything I posted? Once again Rev 21:4 says "no more death." Four vss. later vs. 8 eight groups of the urighteous; cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars" and it is still called "the second death." If there is "no more death" after vs. 4 then the 8 groups do not die.

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Ten more vss. then The End, no more death, no more salvation only "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:"

 

[Der Alte]

Right...so, if i was a Christian and a serial killer i could get into heaven easily?

"Christian" and "serial killer" are mutually exclusive. You would be one or the other not both, at the same time.

Revelation 21:7-8
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​