Would God Really Send Someone to Hell?

[Der Alte]

With people translating variously the things about eternity and other seemingly endless continuation, there's no end to the confusion , even sometimes for the young and naive who may really want to know the truth, but cannot find it in what they are reading , yet. Eventually, As God Is Pleased , He May Reveal to them, albeit the truth comes with pain, suffering and persecution.

I am retired X3, one might say this is my full time "occupation." Some folks will uninformedly argue that the Greek word "aionios," which is most often translated "eternal" does not mean "eternal" but "really means age" or some such nonsense. But that is impossible "aionios" is an adjective and "age" is a noun. An adjective cannot be translated as a noun. No way, no how!
Since I have a plethora of time, I decided to review every occurrence of "aionios" in the NT. Part of the results of that review.

“aionios” occurs 71x in the N.T.​

“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]​

“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]​

“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]​

Despite some uninformed arguments “aionios” is never translated “age(s)” in the N.T. That is impossible. “aionios” is an adjective and “age” is a “noun.” The noun “aion” is translated “age(s)” ​

= = = = = = = = = =​

Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.​

In the following verses αἰώνιος/aionios is defined/described as eternal, everlasting etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.​

= = = = = = = = = =​

…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,”​

However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the N.T., as in the following verses.​

…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.​

It is often argued that “aionios” “really means “age(s)” but that is impossible. “Aionios” is an adjective and age is a noun. An adjective cannot be translated as a noun.​

…..In the following two [2] verses Jesus defines/describes “aion” as “eternity/for ever.”​

[1] Luke 1:33​

(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας/lit. unto the eternity [aionas [PlMas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos] ​

In this verse the reign/basileusei, the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here definitely means eternity.​

[2] John 6:58​

(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever. [εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/aiona [lit. unto eternity]​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live forever” with “death.” If “live unto aiona” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiona” by definition here means “eternity.”​

…..In the following eight [8] verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal/for ever/everlasting” by juxtaposition with other adjectives/descriptive phrases.​

[3] John 10:28​

(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never​

[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα[font]/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. ​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aiona” means “age(s), a finite period,” “age(s) is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”​

[4]John 3:15​

(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.​

[5] John 3:16​

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life. ​

In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion life” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.​

[6]John 5:24​

(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen]I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. ​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.​

[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. ​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.​

[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​

In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” Aionios cannot mean an indefinite age since "aionios" is an adjective and "age" is a noun. By definition aionios means eternal. ​

[9]John 6:27​

(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. ​

In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.​

[10]John 8:51​

(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][unto eternity][fn] see death."​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.​

I have 14 more vss. but these 10 should be all that is necessary.

 

[Jipsah]

-
​

It is not that God sends people to hell (actually the lake of fire). But going to the lake of fire is the only option people leave themselves

And who created everything that exists, and designed it with hell being the default option? T'weren't me. Or you. Or any sinner that evert lived.

Me? I don't think God designed the universe (I know you don't like that word. but it's easier to type than "everthing that exists") so that most of the people we're told He loves are tortured forever. I believe, and Scripture repeatedly says, that the "the soul that sins will die". Oh, that doesn't really mean death, what it really means is eternal life in torment. "But the wages of sin is death!" No, once again death doesn't really mean death. What it really means is eternal life in torment.

I say nonsense. The wages of sin is DEATH, as in DEATH, as in the state of being DEAD, like a bug on a windshield, dead. To, in effect to never have existed at all, in all eternity. Gone, forgotten, extinct, not even a memory left to trouble the hearts of the saints. Deleted and over-written with binary zeroes. We don't keep dirt about so we can hate it for being nasty and offensive, do we? Not unless we're extraordinarily strange, no, we don't. Why would God keep the failed creatures whose sins have offended Him arround to pollute His creation?

when they do not trust in Jesus The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

But in your belief, that have eternal life, don't they? They're given that gift of God so they can be tormented without end. Sounds awfully like something that the Cosmic Loser (that's old Nick, BTW) would come up with as a petty "I'll show them" deal if he had the power to do it. Doesn't sound like God at all.

Did God destroy siner all thtough the Bible? Yep, sure did. Just as He had given them life, He removed it. But did He torture anyone? Nope. The pagans, however, did. All the time. Isn't that interesting?

 

[Der Alte]

Some definitions today are not accurately identical to the definitions yesterday, let alone 2000 years ago.

To whom is this addressed? If you wish to discuss "definitions" with me. I have the latest editions of the Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon, which represents about 90-120 years of combined scholarship and Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon, which represents about 120-160 years of combined scholarship.
Scholars don't sit around making up definitions, but they study ancient documents to determine the correct definitions. For example, here is how Jesus, Himself defined the Greek word "aionios," correctly translated "eternal" and "for ever" in the N.T. 69 times.

John 3:15-16
(15) so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal [aionios] life.”
(16) For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal [aionios] life.​

Some people argue that "aionios" never means "eternal." but really means "age" or some such nonsense. First "aionios" is an adjective and "age" is a noun. And an adjective cannot be translated as a "noun."
Jesus defines "aionios life" as "shall not perish," twice.

 

[Jipsah]

Agreed
View attachment 326222

Again dodging the fact that y'all believe that God designed everything so that the default fate of everyone who ever lived is hell. "High regard" my hind leg. If designed software where the default response to any question was executing the Halt & Catch Fire instruction I would hardly he hailed as a great UI designer. "But I gave them a choice!" is a pretty lame defence, innit? And if I had the temerity to claim that I did it because I respected my users too much to question their response I'd be fired in about 2 seconds by the clock. But that's what you lot are saying, with broad grins.

(Obviously doesn't trouble old Max all that much that in his belief most people will be tortured forever to somehow preserve their dignity. You can't make this stuff up.)

 

[d taylor]

And who created everything that exists, and designed it with hell being the default option? T'weren't me. Or you. Or any sinner that evert lived.

Me? I don't think God designed the universe (I know you don't like that word. but it's easier to type than "everthing that exists") so that most of the people we're told He loves are tortured forever. I believe, and Scripture repeatedly says, that the "the soul that sins will die". Oh, that doesn't really mean death, what it really means is eternal life in torment. "But the wages of sin is death!" No, once again death doesn't really mean death. What it really means is eternal life in torment.

I say nonsense. The wages of sin is DEATH, as in DEATH, as in the state of being DEAD, like a bug on a windshield, dead. To, in effect to never have existed at all, in all eternity. Gone, forgotten, extinct, not even a memory left to trouble the hearts of the saints. Deleted and over-written with binary zeroes. We don't keep dirt about so we can hate it for being nasty and offensive, do we? Not unless we're extraordinarily strange, no, we don't. Why would God keep the failed creatures whose sins have offended Him arround to pollute His creation?


But in your belief, that have eternal life, don't they? They're given that gift of God so they can be tormented without end. Sounds awfully like something that the Cosmic Loser (that's old Nick, BTW) would come up with as a petty "I'll show them" deal if he had the power to do it. Doesn't sound like God at all.

Did God destroy siner all thtough the Bible? Yep, sure did. Just as He had given them life, He removed it. But did He torture anyone? Nope. The pagans, however, did. All the time. Isn't that interesting?

Using The Bible to support your belief and not human philosophy, tell me what happens to the person who never trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. While they are alive on earth, what happens to this person (unbeliever) after they die.

 

[Der Alte]

Again dodging the fact that y'all believe that God designed everything so that the default fate of everyone who ever lived is hell. "High regard" my hind leg. If designed software where the default response to any question was executing the Halt & Catch Fire instruction I would hardly he hailed as a great UI designer. "But I gave them a choice!" is a pretty lame defence, innit? And if I had the temerity to claim that I did it because I respected my users too much to question their response I'd be fired in about 2 seconds by the clock. But that's what you lot are saying, with broad grins.
(Obviously doesn't trouble old Max all that much that in his belief most people will be tortured forever to somehow preserve their dignity. You can't make this stuff up.)

How do you interpret this passage spoken by Jesus, Himself?

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.​

(22) On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many powerful deeds in your name?’​

(23) Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’​

Unlike the UR crowd Jesus does NOT say all mankind will enter heaven, instead Jesus says "Not everyone...will enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Then Jesus says, "On that day,"[i.e. judgement day] "many", NOT a few, "will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we ... do many powerful deeds in your name?’"
Then Jesus will say to those "many," "I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!"
When Jesus says "never" He means never not someday by and by.

 

[Jipsah]

Using The Bible to support your belief and not human philosophy, tell me what happens to the person who never trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

They die, as in actually die. They not only don't exist, they never existed. They never received the gift of eternal life, so they don't live eternally, in any form, anywhere. Saying "they don't have eternal life but they're gonna live forever anyway" is nonsense.

 

[Jipsah]

How do you interpret this passage spoken by Jesus, Himself?

Matthew 7:21-23​

They die, and are deleted from time and space. That why our Lord never knew them. They''re gone from eternity.

(21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.​

Stipulated.

(22) On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many powerful deeds in your name?’​

The Word of the Lord

(23) Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you.​

How could He not know them if they're going to live forever in torment?

​

Unlike the UR crowd

I'm a conditionalist. The damned don't have eternal life, so they can't live forever, in any sense. No one has eternal life by default, it is a gift of God.

Jesus does NOT say all mankind will enter heaven,

Nor do I. Neither does He say that everyone ever born will live eternally. The soul that sins will die.
The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torment. They don't have eternal life. Our Lord will never even have known them.

The rest of your post is devoted to attacking beliefs that I don't subscribe to in the first place.

 

[Der Alte]

*** How could He not know them if they're going to live forever in torment?
***

Jesus, Himself, said "I never knew you." I didn't make that up.

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus, Himself, said "I never knew you." I didn't make that up.

Obviously not. My belief is that our Lord says that He never knew them because they've been expunged from eternity. He never knew them because they have ceased to have ever existed. An eternal punishment, to have had God's gift of revoked eternally.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

Yes, we've been over that, haven't we? If they've never existed, they aren't in Heaven, or anywhere else. They're eternally dead. and always were.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Am I supposed to disagree with those things? If so, why? I get the impression that you haven't paid any attention to what I'm saying, you just assume that since I don't believe that the damned have eternal life to spend in hell or anywhere else, that I must believe they're in Heaven. They aren't. God has destroyed them, utterly, the penalty for which our Lord said we should fear God. You believe that our Lord was making an empty threat and that God can't or won't destroy anyone. I say the threat was real, and that that's the fate of the damned - to be destroyed in hell just as our Lord said.

They're nowhere. They do not exist. Not only do that not exist, they have never existed.

They do not have eternal life to spend in hell. Eternal Life is the gift of God bestowed only on the Blessed

 

[Saint Steven]

They die, and are deleted from time and space. That why our Lord never knew them. They''re gone from eternity.

How does that square with God's omniscience?

I know he forgets our sins. (doesn't remember them against us?)

 

[returntosender]

They send themselves by their choice.

 

[returntosender]

Agreed
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I love max!

Then God would simply blot that person out if that's what they choose. And all loving God would not burn someone for an eternity. When we read the bible, we see that's not his nature. He doesn't even take delight that the wicked shall "perish" so he certainly would not burn someone forever. That doctrine has turned a lot of people off Christianity. The punishment is eternal destruction. If someone still rejects him in the end God will give them that choice. Christ states the Lake of Fire is the second death, not eternal life in hell. And that coincides with his teaching in Matthew 10:28. And we see that the former things will pass away. And the Lake of Fire would be included in that.

Why would he speak of hell and the lake of fire. Are you questioning God's word? Or just the part you don't like?

 

[returntosender]

Yes indeed. Few seem to realize that and are always looking way off into the future, rather than focusing on here and now.

That won't get you to heaven either

 

[returntosender]

Then God would simply blot that person out if that's what they choose. And all loving God would not burn someone for an eternity. When we read the bible, we see that's not his nature. He doesn't even take delight that the wicked shall "perish" so he certainly would not burn someone forever. That doctrine has turned a lot of people off Christianity. The punishment is eternal destruction. If someone still rejects him in the end God will give them that choice. Christ states the Lake of Fire is the second death, not eternal life in hell. And that coincides with his teaching in Matthew 10:28. And we see that the former things will pass away. And the Lake of Fire would be included in that.

Have you read the old testament? God wasn't very nice and still the loving God you speak of.

I dont believe God sends anyone to hell.

No, it is us that make that choice through the lives we lead.

I don't agree, how we live our lives has little to do with the choice we have to make to go to heaven. We can live terrible lives and still go to heaven

 

[Lost4words]

Have you read the old testament? God wasn't very nice and still the loving God you speak of.

I don't agree, how we live our lives has little to do with the choice we have to make to go to heaven. We can live terrible lives and still go to heaven

Then, you need to read scripture more deeply my friend.

 

[IoanC]

God is All-Good and All-Powerful. We should never judge or condemn (even demons) because only God knows what these truly mean.

 

[YahuahSaves]

“Well, suppose a person rejects God and does not wish to be with him. Would an all-loving God coerce that person into being saved or would he respect the person’s free choice?”

Fair point. But "eternal" hellfire is a myth. God destroyed the "old world" with the flood, he will destroy this one with fire, before he creates a new heaven and earth.

2 Peter 3
The Day of the Lord Is Coming

3 This is my second letter to you, dear friends, and in both of them I have tried to stimulate your wholesome thinking and refresh your memory. 2 I want you to remember what the holy prophets said long ago and what our Lord and Savior commanded through your apostles.

3 Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires. 4 They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.”

5 They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water. 6 Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood. 7 And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

8 But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. 9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.[a]

11 Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live, 12 looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames. 13 But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.

14 And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.

15 And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— 16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

 

[YahuahSaves]

In the up and coming 1000 rule of The Messiah, not all will believe in The Messiah during His 1000 year rule on earth. They team up with satan to try and battle against the saints and the beloved city.

Share the scripture where it says that^

 

[YahuahSaves]

God is All-Good and All-Powerful. We should never judge or condemn (even demons) because only God knows what these truly mean.

Fair point^ reminds me of the scripture about false teachers.

Jude 9-10

9 But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels,[a] did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses’ body.) 10 But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction.