Wife and I are starting over, help?

[Scott Grissom]

This is so hard for me. This morning was a good note. This afternoon, not so much.

 

[tall73]

I think we got off track. My wife told me about this guy the first time he texted her. She was transparent. This was not something I found out about in that way. And my wife chose to stay, not to leave. She told me her limerance of feelings faded away. I'm not saying she didn't stray, I'm saying I don't believe she's continuing to stray. But I do think she still thinks about him. If that were not so we wouldn't have any issue.

I understand that type of confrontation is not pleasant for anyone. It is good that you found nothing on the phone. And while I would have thought she would do it earlier, it is good she removed him from Facebook. Again, it is a process in her mind to go through all the different aspects, so it will take time.

That having been said, her response in regard to the phone thing could be taken as problematic. I would recommend differently than Endeavor in regards to asking for passwords, etc. rather than just snooping. No one likes snooping, but someone who is repentant will understand the need to willingly open up for a time (not forever) in a way they normally would not to rebuild trust.

As was said there is no perfect solution. Yes, anyone could come up with ways to cheat that get around things. But an openness to accountability is also a sign of repentance, and a protection.

Where you go with this from here is up to you. I do think spending time together is the main thing. That is what will help her resolve a number of these issues. And you mentioned she is prayer journaling and you are also praying. Some of this she has to work through Spiritually on her own.

I think the reason Endeavor was so concerned was that if she is feeding the other relationship, it undermines all the other efforts.

There are, just from an outside perspective, some things that are pretty odd about some of her responses in this. The spinning of the trust issue back on you, her indicating that none of the things you did to show love before are going to be enough, her repeated statements that she doesn't feel in love with you, etc. They just do not match up with someone repenting from an emotional connection with someone else.

Someone who is repentant realizes they have broken trust, and are interested in what they can do to make it better. Going on about all you have to do seems to miss the point.

You mentioned she stated how she wanted to feel. But she needs to tell you what she wants you to do. And you need to do the same. This can't be just one way demands from her. It needs to be talking about what the relationship would be, what would constitute acting in a loving way toward her, etc.

 

[tall73]

I just really feel like when I do something it either sets us back or puts us forward for just a moment. And I hate that I feel like I'm working to get my wife back. What about my wife working to get us back on track? I'm just so confused and frustrated. We were having a decent day but after the phone thing her demeanor switched up a bit.

She told me last week that I can trust her and that she has integrity, she won't do anything. I'm just really confused. I've really got to give this up to God and stop trying to do things to fix us.

Read unfinishedclay's post on blameshifting carefully. If she is constantly making it seem like you are the problem, that is to deflect from her being a major part of the problem. If you were refusing to do things with her, refusing to spend time with her, refusing to try to rebuild things, then she could perhaps say you were the problem.

That is not the case. If her attitude is bad after you called her to accountability, that may be because she resents accountability.

 

[Endeavourer]

This is so hard for me. This morning was a good note. This afternoon, not so much.

An affair is one of the most painful things someone can experience in their life.

I spent a good part of my afternoon posting to you because my heart went out to you; based on a number of things you have reported, I firmly suspect you do not yet know the full extent of this relationship.

Having it deepen/continue would even be more painful and diminish the chances of recovery.

 

[Scott Grissom]

I agree. I feel like my wife needs time and space at this moment. To get thru this in her time. She's said she's not 100% here. She's said she wants us to work. She's also said some days she can't find hope or motivation.

She's said she feels like her prayers aren't helping. I told her she needs to pray and then act in faith. She can't pray to be happily married AND refuse to delete him from Facebook.

I believe she is genuine in trying to make us work but she does not know what to do. I'm afraid with each day passing this becomes harder to resolve.

We are going to Las Vegas tomorrow just us, she's not too excited about the trip because she's afraid what if she's not feeling up to do anything. What if she's not in a good mood like yesterday. But I'm truly truly praying we just have fun and spend time together. I'm really hoping we can reconnect over a show or an activity. We aren't the clubbing type or gambling but we might try blackjack once for the first time.

I'm trying to stay solid and be a rock for her. I am most the time, but every now and then I think I show weakness by going through her phone or whatever. I just wish there was a manual to marriage. Universally. But really what works for one doesn't always work for another.

 

[Scott Grissom]

An affair is one of the most painful things someone can experience in their life.

I spent a good part of my afternoon posting to you because my heart went out to you; based on a number of things you have reported, I firmly suspect you do not yet know the full extent of this relationship.

Having it deepen/continue would even be more painful and diminish the chances of recovery.

Do I need to know? Honestly. If she wasn't physical with him, would that help us or hurt us? The thought terrifies me but it kind of makes sense because of her behavior. This can't all spawn out of just feelings...I feel like she feels guilt. But other times I look at her and we talk and I believe her.

On one hand if she did physically cheat, I want to know so we can address that issue and work to move past it if possible. But if she keeps it from me it may forever hinder our reconciliation efforts.

 

[Scott Grissom]

I really need hope. A message of hope. Something I wish to hear or know that would give me hope in the future. I feel powerless and sometimes hopeless. It's both hard and heart breaking to talk to my wife and not feel that she's my wife. She stopped saying I love you as much. Almost completely. I tell her, though it's awkward when I don't hear it back. But there's little pockets of a good time we're having where she calls me babe and says she loves me. It's like windows into some truth underneath this all.

 

[Endeavourer]

Do I need to know? Honestly. If she wasn't physical with him, would that help us or hurt us? The thought terrifies me but it kind of makes sense because of her behavior. This can't all spawn out of just feelings...I feel like she feels guilt. But other times I look at her and we talk and I believe her.

On one hand if she did physically cheat, I want to know so we can address that issue and work to move past it if possible. But if she keeps it from me it may forever hinder our reconciliation efforts.

Yes, you do need to know if contact is ongoing so you can block it.

You do need to know what the avenues of her affair are so you can shut them down.

You need to run the other man off so he stops sniffing around. Confront him, even if you have to drive 100 miles to do it. (Do not do violence. Do not do something stupid that would cause you to land in jail.) Make the price too high for him to contact your wife again. At the VERY minimum, his wife needs to know because she deserves the truth about her life AND because she will be your best bet at watching for contact being initiated from his side. I would consider exposing beyond his wife if possible. You want to make it very p.a.i.n.f.u.l. for him to pursue your wife (and thereby the privilege of playing father to your daughter).

After you run him off, have her hand write a letter telling him that she never wants him to contact her again, that you seal in an envelope and mail. Make sure the letter does not leave any interpretation for a future connection, i.e. if things don't work out in my marriage I'll be back.

With respect to your next actions, it doesn't matter if the affair was yet actually physical or not. If you don't do these things and it was not physical, it will become physical.

Her attraction to him is an addiction that grew strong enough for her to throw her regard for her daughter's future overboard.

 

[tall73]

Do I need to know? Honestly. If she wasn't physical with him, would that help us or hurt us? The thought terrifies me but it kind of makes sense because of her behavior. This can't all spawn out of just feelings...I feel like she feels guilt. But other times I look at her and we talk and I believe her.

On one hand if she did physically cheat, I want to know so we can address that issue and work to move past it if possible. But if she keeps it from me it may forever hinder our reconciliation efforts.

Well I think the biggest issue is not what happened already but what Endeavor things is still happening.

However, it does matter if it was physical, as you may need to get tested for STD's if that was the case, and it raises other rather gut level trust issues.

 

[Scott Grissom]

Well how the heck am I ever going to find out if it was physical? I've asked, she emphatically says no, multiple times. She's admitted to being tempted and she's admitted to wanting to go see him.

All I have it a gut feeling.

 

[Endeavourer]

I really need hope. A message of hope. Something I wish to hear or know that would give me hope in the future. I feel powerless and sometimes hopeless. It's both hard and heart breaking to talk to my wife and not feel that she's my wife. She stopped saying I love you as much. Almost completely. I tell her, though it's awkward when I don't hear it back. But there's little pockets of a good time we're having where she calls me babe and says she loves me. It's like windows into some truth underneath this all.

Scott, you can have ENORMOUS hope. This affair is very young.

There is a proven, strategic plan to kill an affair, run the other man off. Dr. Harley' is this country's #1 expert in recovering marriages that have experienced affairs. He has seen EVERYTHING and has developed a plan that is literally fool proof when followed.

I've personally witnessed the journey of 100's of marriages that have recovered from affairs and restored to a far better condition than pre-affair. These couples are madly in love with each other - far more so than before.

Go to their forum and there will be about 5 long time experts that have personally helped 100's of marriages bust up affairs, step by step. They are volunteers with jobs and families, but in gratitude for the help they received, they volunteer to help others.

 

[Scott Grissom]

I don't want to do that. I want my wife to CHOOSE me. Ok I run through some affair self help guide and "run this man off" am I to do that the rest of my marriage the next time a guy gets an idea? It's not sustainable.

 

[tall73]

I really need hope. A message of hope. Something I wish to hear or know that would give me hope in the future. I feel powerless and sometimes hopeless. It's both hard and heart breaking to talk to my wife and not feel that she's my wife. She stopped saying I love you as much. Almost completely. I tell her, though it's awkward when I don't hear it back. But there's little pockets of a good time we're having where she calls me babe and says she loves me. It's like windows into some truth underneath this all.

There is no way around what you are feeling.When you love someone else you open yourself up to pain based on the other person's decisions. But there is hope. Many couples are able to re-connect spiritually, emotionally, and move on from such circumstances. As with most things, if there is commitment together you can go through it.

Well how the heck am I ever going to find out if it was physical? I've asked, she emphatically says no, multiple times. She's admitted to being tempted and she's admitted to wanting to go see him.

All I have it a gut feeling.

A. what is the gut feeling?

B. why do you think you have it?

C. if it was it will likely come out at some point.

 

[Endeavourer]

and "run this man off" am I to do that the rest of my marriage the next time a guy gets an idea? It's not sustainable.

Yes, I hope you would.

However, the "self help" guide will help you and your wife set boundaries that make future affairs impossible. After setting these boundaries, events like the one you are experiencing would be highly unlikely to ever happen again.

Edited to add: I know my husband would not tolerate any fools sniffing around my skirt. My total confidence in this makes me feel very treasured and cherished.

 

[Scott Grissom]

There is no way around what you are feeling.When you love someone else you open yourself up to pain based on the other person's decisions. But there is hope. Many couples are able to re-connect spiritually, emotionally, and move on from such circumstances. As with most things, if there is commitment together you can go through it.




A. what is the gut feeling?

B. why do you think you have it?

C. if it was it will likely come out at some point.

My gut feeling is that there's more to what went on than I know. My gut is that they're not talking now, but that SOMETHING physical happened. I don't know what.

I think this because 1. She's said she loves me 2. She's listed all these things she loves about me last night (I did the same for her) 3. She's still here and not leaving. So with that being said, why is there difficulty in working things out with us? I am willing and able to meet her needs emotionally and sexually. We both want the same thing from our marriage and we both want to be passed this. So if there's love, things we love about each other, I'm willing, why is she hesitating? What is difficult?

I rationalize that based on this, she should be excited about moving forward. If it was just feeling caught, 1. Those should be gone or fading significantly (she did say they've faded) and 2. If it's just feelings I don't understand how feelings could cause all this damage and difficulty. I feel like there's something she's having to deal with on her own that's she's not told anyone and it's making it very difficult for her to be 100% here. Something that's making her feel guilty that Satan is reminding her of. That she cannot tell me for fear I'll leave and for fear that it'll be out that she is the one that ruined everything and she knows she has a good thing.

 

[tall73]

I don't want to do that. I want my wife to CHOOSE me. Ok I run through some affair self help guide and "run this man off" am I to do that the rest of my marriage the next time a guy gets an idea? It's not sustainable.

I think the "running the guy off" language, while helpful to some, might be less helpful here. We are not talking a cave-man confrontation with clubs.

And we are not talking about running off every guy or snooping out every threat Obviously at some point she has to choose to be with you or not. But the hesitancy she feels is because she has mixed feelings. Some part of her wants the experience she had from talking to him, but the rest of her knows she should not do that.

You have the advantage of clarify here. You see that your wife, were she to pursue these other thoughts, is endangering your family, her own spiritual life, your shared child's life, etc.

To you it is sheer folly. And of course you want her to choose you. And she is in fact choosing you, because she is there, she said she wants to work on things etc.

But you can have the clarity she cannot as she deals with these feelings. And helping her to cut off all avenues that would limit this other guys influence is in fact helping her.

 

[Endeavourer]

My gut feeling is that there's more to what went on than I know. My gut is that they're not talking now, but that SOMETHING physical happened. I don't know what.

I think this because 1. She's said she loves me 2. She's listed all these things she loves about me last night (I did the same for her) 3. She's still here and not leaving. So with that being said, why is there difficulty in working things out with us? I am willing and able to meet her needs emotionally and sexually. We both want the same thing from our marriage and we both want to be passed this. So if there's love, things we love about each other, I'm willing, why is she hesitating? What is difficult?

I rationalize that based on this, she should be excited about moving forward. If it was just feeling caught, 1. Those should be gone or fading significantly (she did say they've faded) and 2. If it's just feelings I don't understand how feelings could cause all this damage and difficulty. I feel like there's something she's having to deal with on her own that's she's not told anyone and it's making it very difficult for her to be 100% here. Something that's making her feel guilty that Satan is reminding her of. That she cannot tell me for fear I'll leave and for fear that it'll be out that she is the one that ruined everything and she knows she has a good thing.

Honestly, Scott, the sooner you can get this monkey of doubt off your back the sooner you can put it behind you, never bring it up again and move on.

You are probably right; and I know for a fact that finding everything out right now, all at once, would be the very best rather than for your marriage to be trickle truthed to death.

This is a major milestone that must be accomplished early in the plan I've been advocating. It is easier than you think to get the truth out in the open, but you have to step up to the procedures needed to get it done.

 

[tall73]

If it's just feelings I don't understand how feelings could cause all this damage and difficulty. I feel like there's something she's having to deal with on her own that's she's not told anyone and it's making it very difficult for her to be 100% here. Something that's making her feel guilty that Satan is reminding her of. That she cannot tell me for fear I'll leave and for fear that it'll be out that she is the one that ruined everything and she knows she has a good thing.

Whether it is physical or not there are feelings of betrayal, and there is the spiritual reality that she not only betrayed you but God if she seeks a relationship outside of marriage.

And if she is otherwise repentant, then sometimes retreating into herself and not seeming here may be her processing all of this in her mind.

No one likes to feel like a spiritual and relational failure. But she has to face that in some ways that is what happened here.

Keep in mind, it may not still be physical. Note the current thread of another poster who was in the position of having an emotional affair. She is still dealing with the guilt, but the relationship did not get physical, and apparently not even really overtly sexual.

Even in cases where someone is repentant there may be times they feel withdrawn. This is not pleasant for you, but it is also not for her, even though she was the one caught up in it. She has to deal with a new self-picture that may not be to her liking.

It is when she starts blame shifting, though, or puts it all on you to win her over that there is concern. Only you are there and can see what the situation is. There is an element where you have to trust God and her. There is also an element where if something doesn't sit right you may need to make sure of what is really going on. It is not an enviable position.

 

[Scott Grissom]

Whether it is physical or not there are feelings of betrayal, and there is the spiritual reality that she not only betrayed you but God if she seeks a relationship outside of marriage.

And if she is otherwise repentant, then sometimes retreating into herself and not seeming here may be her processing all of this in her mind.

No one likes to feel like a spiritual and relational failure. But she has to face that in some ways that is what happened here.

Keep in mind, it may not still be physical. Note the current thread of another poster who was in the position of having an emotional affair. She is still dealing with the guilt, but the relationship did not get physical, and apparently not even really overtly sexual.

Even in cases where someone is repentant there may be times they feel withdrawn. This is not pleasant for you, but it is also not for her, even though she was the one caught up in it. She has to deal with a new self-picture that may not be to her liking.

It is when she starts blame shifting, though, or puts it all on you to win her over that there is concern. Only you are there and can see what the situation is. There is an element where you have to trust God and her. There is also an element where if something doesn't sit right you may need to make sure of what is really going on. It is not an enviable position.

What is the concern with the blameshifting?

 

[Endeavourer]

I think the "running the guy off" language, while helpful to some, might be less helpful here. We are not talking a cave-man confrontation with clubs.

Exactly.

We mean making the price too high for him to want to pursue her. Do not have any sympathy for him - he certainly was not having sympathy for you when he was attacking your marriage and daughter's future.

This can include but is not limited to:
a) (and absolutely essential) telling his wife
b) (absolutely essential) confronting him and letting him know you'll tolerate no fools after your wife
c) exposing to his friends and family
d) putting him up on cheater websites and sending him the link
e) taking out a billboard in his neighborhood with his face and "cheater!" on it

.... some of these were serious; all are if necessary (lol).

You get the idea.....