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Featured Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by precepts, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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    Okay, I would reply, "That is the second coming" to which I presume you don't need to ask "What second coming"?

    But if you're saying "That is the rapture which happens X years prior to the second coming in which people are removed from the earth to escape the tribulation" I would ask, "What rapture which happens X years prior to the second coming in which people are removed from the earth to escape the tribulation?" Again, before you "see" something into the scripture that something must first be taught.
     
  2. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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    Yes, everyone agrees there is a catching up. "The rapture" adds a lot of other things into the equation, other than a "catching up"; usually a time of X length prior to the second coming for the purpose of causing people to vanish from the world in order to not be present to endure some tribulation or another.
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There are two raptures. How so?

    At the rapture, the LORD calls His church up to a wedding/marriage:

    Matthew 25:10

    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.​

    But at the second coming to earth, He is returning from a wedding:

    Luke 12:36

    And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.​


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  4. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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    Actually, that should indeed be enough to tell us when the "catching up" occurs; at the coming of the Lord. Without "rapture doctrine" interfering, we would all natural and rightly understand the "coming of the Lord" to be the second coming. But most rapturists will try to say that the "coming of the Lord" there isn't the second coming we all know about and don't have to ask "What second coming?" but is a "coming of the Lord before the coming of the Lord"; this is why Paul can clear it all up by teaching further about this one "coming/parousia" of the Lord in his 2nd letter when he explains that this "coming/parousia" of the Lord is a bright event which destroys "that Wicked": thus the "catching up" occurs at the same time as the destruction of "that Wicked" as is the final event. I.e. the second coming.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Revelation 3:10

    Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


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  6. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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    What rapture?
     
  7. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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    Part of my first post, I presume it was missed:

    Meaning, before we can cite a scripture like "I will keep you from the hour" and claim "That's the rapture", we have to first actually have a teaching of said rapture in order to conclude 'there it is' Because when a person points at a scripture and says "There is the rapture" the only real question is "What rapture?" and it is that question's answer which is not in the scripture.
     
  8. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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    What rapture?
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Actually, Paul says the Day of the LORD will not come until there is a falling away. The Day of the LORD is a period or age that starts with the breaking of the sixth seal. This is confirmed by numerous Scripture. Dark or black skies and a blood moon is associated with the 6th seal and the signs leading to the age or period of time known as the "Day of the LORD."

    The people Paul was talking to had thought they missed out on the Rapture and they were going into the Day of the LORD. But Paul was reassuring them that certain things need to happen before even the Day of the LORD can take place. So they need not to worry.

    For God's people are not appointed unto "wrath."

    The great wrath is mentioned as part of the Judgments in Revelation within the Great Tribulation.


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  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    That's okay. Have a nice day.
    I really do not like debating Eschatology with others.


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  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Names just help us to distinguish things. When one talks about the Rapture, they are referring to the event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. You can call it the "Event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18" if that makes you feel better. But to say that the "Event of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18" does not exist is silly. That is what Christians are referring to when they say the Rapture. It is the same thing when we use the word "Bible."


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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Here it is one more time.

    1st Rapture:

    Matthew 25:10

    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.​

    But at the second coming to earth, He is returning from a wedding:

    2nd Rapture:

    Luke 12:36

    And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.


    So the first entering is the marriage itself and the second entering takes place after the Lord returns from the wedding.

    Pretty simple to me.


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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  13. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Really? Wouldn't it be great for you who expecting a rapture, to be able to laugh at those who didn't and yet suddenly arrived in Heaven?
    On the other hand we who don't expect a rapture, are physically and spiritually prepared for what is prophesied to happen and you will be shocked and terrified on the Lord's Day of wrath. Because scripture doesn't actually mention that God will take the Church to heaven, in fact Jesus refutes it. John 3:13, John 7:34

    Capitalize and underline your IF
     
  14. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Fully refuted as a rapture proof in #82
    You are getting desperate to cite that as meaning a removal of the Church to heaven. Wouldn't it be better to know what the Lord actually does plan for His people?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  15. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi precepts,

    Well, if you're looking for the word 'rapture', you won't find that anywhere in the Scriptures. However, the Scriptures do fairly clearly explain that there will be a taking away first of those who belong to Jesus before the wrath of God is released upon the world. In the Revelation, you will find it in chapter 14. The harvest of the earth. First Jesus comes to take those who are his and then the second angel comes to deal with all the rest. To throw them into the wine press of God's wrath.

    Now, we don't know how much time might pass on the earth between these two events, but the wrath of God does seem to be released upon the earth. So, it would be logical to think that pretty shortly after Jesus removes his, the wrath of God, the bowl judgments, will be released shortly thereafter.

    God bless you,
    In Christ, Ted
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The hypothesis that believers will fall away from the faith because there will be no Rapture is really thin. If that is what it takes to make them fall away from the faith, then they will fall away from the faith at the first sign of trouble in their life. The only position that truly matters is the Pre-Trib Rapture view. For you have the most to lose by not believing in it. Jesus says He comes in an hour in which you will know not. At Christ's 2nd Coming, it is pretty simple to have an idea of when He is coming. It is at the 6th vial or bowl judgment (Read Revelation 16:12-16 with a special focus on verse 15).

    As for John 3:13:
    This is not an eternal truth. Jesus was stating a fact in the present tense of his time. Yes, no man has still yet to ascend into heaven. But we see an allusion to a description of something like this taking place in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. For why rise to meet the Lord in the air if the LORD is like... Ha, ha, ha. Sorry. Too bad. You gotta go back now.

    Actually, John 14:2-3 says,

    "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

    As for John 7:34: Wow. That is truly reaching. This was said to the Pharisees when Christ was going to be crucified and then resurrected. They could not follow Him because they were not saved believers who were going to die around the same time He was going to die.


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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I don't have to look at your list to know it is false. I already have more than enough evidence for the Pre-Trib Rapture. One day when it happens, and your left behind, you will have wished you had believed.


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  18. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The list of Bible verses in #82, make it quite clear that God will protect His people on His Day of wrath by fire. Here's another:
    Proverbs 3:25-26 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side and He will keep you safe.

    Anyway, I am a Christian believer, why should my disbelief in a rapture to heaven disqualify me to go there IF that is Gods plan, as you think? You are being judgemental and unchristian to consign me to tribulation because I have differing beliefs to you.
     
  19. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    Matthew 13:10-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
    10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

    11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

    ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
    And seeing you will see and not perceive;
    15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
    Their ears are hard of hearing,
    And their eyes they have closed,
    Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
    Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
    So that I should heal them.

    16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


    It's there, you just can't see it. Some will be given more, some will be given less and others will even have what they already have taken away. One is now constantly promoting God's throne room as a place on earth.

    Not every Christian is equal.


    Matthew 13:15 New King James Version (NKJV)
    For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
    Their ears are hard of hearing,
    And their eyes they have closed,
    Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
    Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
    So that I should heal them.’

    Romans 11:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
    Just as it is written:

    “God has given them a spirit of stupor,
    Eyes that they should not see
    And ears that they should not hear,
    To this very day.”



    Isaiah 6:10 New King James Version (NKJV)

    “Make the heart of this people dull,
    And their ears heavy,
    And shut their eyes;
    Lest they see with their eyes,
    And hear with their ears,
    And understand with their heart,
    And return and be healed.”


    Jeremiah 5:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
    ‘Hear this now, O foolish people,
    Without understanding,
    Who have eyes and see not,
    And who have ears and hear not:


    Ezekiel 12:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
    “Son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house, which has eyes to see but does not see, and ears to hear but does not hear; for they are a rebellious house.

    Acts 28:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
    For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
    Their ears are hard of hearing,
    And their eyes they have closed,
    Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
    Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
    So that I should heal them.”’







    .
     
  20. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    Aren't you the one who posted the OP asking about the rapture in Revelation?

    Someone gave you the correct answer and you're rejecting it. I'm showing you he's correct with evidence, a verse from the bible, but you're rejecting this too.

    So are you seeking answers from people or are you looking for someone to scratch thy itchy ears? 2 Timothy 4:3

    It's fine, you don't have to answer. Just look at these verses and figure out what it means.

    One group was given white robes with palm branches, but they are not bright.

    One group was given fine linen, clean and bright but no palm branches.

    One group was given just a white robe, not bright and no palm branches.

    There's a purpose for everything God does. What do you think it all mean?

    Revelation 7:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
    9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

    Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
    7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

    Revelation 6:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.







    .
     
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