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Featured Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by precepts, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

    Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

    If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

    Food for thought

    A falling away has definitely begun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
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  2. Green5

    Green5 New Member

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    Some believers (not myself) consider the Second Coming of Christ and the Day of The Lord to be two different events happening in the End Times even though the Bible says Matthew "Immediately after the tribulation of those days"

    One verse that pre-tribulation rapture believers use is in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4. The heading of this verse is only
    "The Comfort of Christ’s Coming" It doesn't refer to a pre-tribulation rapture from my understanding of the Word

    For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

    One thing that i'm uncertain about is the order of events in the Book of Revelation, whether it is in chronological order or not. In Chapter 7 of the Book of Revelation verse 9 the heading is "A Multitude from the Great Tribulation" - some people use this Chapter verses 9-17 to support the idea of the pre-tribulation rapture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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  3. Stillicidia

    Stillicidia Revanche Flower Supporter

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    When people are removed. One person is taken, and the other left. That's the rapture.

    Those who speak prophecy know there is a rapture. So, although I have no idea where the word rapture came from, it doesn't seem far from being an imparted bit of knowledge God passed to his people. Shouldn't be against this.

    The rapture is different from Christ's return or any resurrections.
     
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  4. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    I understand the verse but that has nothing to do with the fact the 2nd advent is the 2nd resurrection. The gathering of the elect, as described in the Olivet discourse, is when and where "that generation" and "those standing there" taste death after witnessing the 2nd advent, which is the 2nd death, the lake of fire death, which is the fact.
     
  5. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    There is no rapture since Christ doesn't return until the 2nd resurrection, described as some witnesses tasting death at His return, which is the lake of fire death, which proves His return is at the 2nd resurrection.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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  6. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    its not really there. Its a huge scam, lol.
     
  7. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    your pointing to a great forgotten truth. There is no word meaning to be taken up as in the modern undersanding of the word rapture.
    The word is a harpazo, a taken away, and its usually a spiritual "rapture" as in "caught up", not physically but as in a trance or whatever (not trance, but you know what i mean). Read "rapture" in mirriam wesbter finst, its "expression of ecstacy"..has nothing to do with a physical ride upwards.

    It was the word used about philip when he was taken to another city in the spirit. He was just relocated.
    The mos famous rapture verse is where we will all meet him in the air. Ppl mistakenly think this means a taking up unto a heaven far above, but it literally says air as in the space above the crust of the earth, its literally what the word means. It literally means on the earth. This was the promise the jews were all waiting for when the man who should be called "god" would come into earth as the messiah. Well, they are still waiting, and so are christians LOOL

    So what kind of rapture to meet the lord will happen that keeps us on earth? lol Anyone can study this for real and get the real answer, the modern rapture related eschatology is not known troughout church history, its jus something that made some writers of christian left behind novels multi millionaries (and then nicolas cage starred in their movie, but thats a whole other story)
     
  8. stephen583

    stephen583 Well-Known Member

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    I don't actually expect I'll survive to see the end of the Tribulation Period.. so from a personal perspective, even a Post Trib Rapture holds little interest for me.

    I am however most heartened by the fact there will be a "general" resurrection of the dead at the Second Coming of Christ.

    Having said that.. In my view, the chronology and events described in the Revelation even begs the question whether the souls of believers in Christ aren't "immediately" resurrected when they die. Are Christians subject to "death" like everyone else ?

    "And he said to me, "These are they which came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 9:14).

    I thought everyone who dies is supposed to be asleep awaiting the "general" resurrection at the Second Coming ? This passage from the Revelation appears to contradict that widely accepted idea, doesn't it ?

    Could it be biblical references to deceased believers being "asleep" or "at rest" might not necessarily refer to an unconscious state of death, but a figurative description of spiritual "inactivity" ?.. As in a soul being separated from the world of the living ?

    Why does the Scripture say, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord" ?
     
  9. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    The body sleeps, the spirit goes to be with the Lord.

    John 11:10-15New King James Version (NKJV)
    10 But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.”11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

    12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

    14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”
     
  10. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    To the OP

    What you call a "rapture" is a resurrection to immortality of both the dead in Christ and those of His true ecclesia living at the time

    The event: Revelation 3:10; 18:4

    Here is the proof of the event which will occur just before the coming tribulation in Revelation's unfolding

    Those made immortal are seen in heaven during the tribulation period [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those already on thrones]]
     
  11. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    Though I might have mixed up how the rapture occurs in the OP, there's still nothing in Revelation that suggests a rapture.

    Better yet, provide a verse that says people will be vanishing and not carried away/taken, because there is no disappearing act recorded in scripture.

    Rev 20:5 specifically says the "rest" of the dead lived not until after the thousand yrs, the "rest".

    00e6a328-19ad-461b-9019-3d88fa7faec3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  12. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    You know I saw one of these outside my window a day. I saw a picture of it on MSN either before or after it appeared and disappeared quickly one afternoon. I saw the picture on MSN like withing 24 hrs of seeing it.

    It was like a solar eclipse that just appeared and disappeared, a black solar disc surround by light, as if the sun was hiding right behind it.

    I just figured it must have been some sort of deity or something.

    And today you show up with it, and a newsletter I get from a stargazer site also showed up with it! What's the odds of that being a coincidence?

    That's some real creepy stuff.

    00e6a328-19ad-461b-9019-3d88fa7faec3.jpg

    Peace out!

    wolfman.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  13. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    "Though I might have mixed up how the rapture occurs in the OP, there's still nothing in Revelation that suggests a rapture.


    Did you rip out some pages?

    The evidence is there .... of you are alive at the time, don't miss it

    If you do you will be headed for things that you are not going to like [Revelation 6:12-17]
     
  14. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Everybody dies the first death, but believers escape the second death. Everyone is also resurrected, which makes the first death temporary and therefore likened to sleep. We do not have spirits that go to heaven or hell immediately upon death. Our final destination is not determined until judgment day.

    Revelation is definitely not written in Chronological order, but rather in a form of progressive parallelism. That verse regarding the multitude in heaven is actually in Revelation 7:14 (not 9:14) but that same multitude is again referenced in Revelation 19, after the seventh trumpet has blown. The seventh trumpet ushers in the day of the Lord, which is the return, the resurrection, the judgment, the new earth. That multitude is those who are found written in the book of life.
     
  15. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    • My comment

    Those seen in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17 are the Lord's pre-tribulation ecclesia

    These have come "away" from the tribulation .... the Greek "EK" can mean "away from" as "out of"

    Even then when one is not "in" a condition, he is out of it

    These same people are seen many times during the tribulation [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those already on thrones]]

    The only resurrections that will take place at the end of the days of the tribulation are the martyrs who become believers during the period and the Lord's two prophets [Revelation 6:9-11; 11:7-12]

    The gatherings of the mortal survivors after the tribulation are not resurrections

    Israel [Matthew 24:29-31]

    The nations of the Gentiles [Matthew 25:31-46]

    Those found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... those found in unbelief will be rejected

    And Last 7 is correct about Revelation's structure .... the prose is layered and repeating ass the narrative moves forward

    IF you do not get this truth you will never understand the Lord's prophetic word
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  16. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    No , we don't rip out pages of our Bibles, we read carefully all what is written. And NOWHERE does it say: God will take people to heaven. Your 'evidence' is false.
    It does say: we must endure trials and tribulation, only when Jesus Returns, will He gather His people to be with Him forever.
     
  17. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    We? ..... maybe you, but not we

    Have a ball in the tribulation
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  18. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    I misinterpreted what you were saying in my first response, so here's my second response.

    Nowhere in Revelation says anyone is redeemed from the earth alive. It only mentions the dead, hence the term the 1st resurrection.

    And the only verse, the verse you're quoting above, doesn't specifically say the taken away is a rapture, which I believe is just one version out of three.

    I did mix up the rapture with Christ return, but I still say there's no proof of a rapture since there isn't any evidence of a bodily transformation in said taken away.
     
  19. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    Well said except the book of life isn't opened until the 2nd resurrection. It's a replica, if I can call it that, of Israel's return from Babylon, when a registry was checked and some couldn't find their name in Nehem--h's book.

    And a note to the wise, the great multitude are all the righteous resurrected dead from the beginning of creation to the time of the 1st resurrection.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  20. precepts

    precepts Newbie

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    If the proof was there, there wouldn't be any arguments, but because it's not, is why we argue.

    There's nothing that suggest anyone is redeemed/raptured from the earth during the "1st resurrection" in Revelation, nothing at all but one verse (I think) about one taken and one left, and I'm beginning to thing it's speaking about the same situation from the old testament when Israel was besieged by Nebuchadnezzar, in the context of two being in the field and one being taken/slain and other escaping with his life. I'm beginning to think that way because the context of the NT verse is about the city being surround and besieged when it references this taken away! Food for thought!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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