What is the best "way" to, if possible, to work toward of follow in keeping the commandments...?

[1stcenturylady]

Just because some people don't have an overnight experience with the Holy Spirit like you did, that no longer sins anymore, and therefore has no need of repentance anymore after that, ect, does not mean that is the way it happens for everybody, nor is the one and only kind of experience one can have with the Holy Spirit either...

Unless your suggesting that if one that has it any other way, or does not have or experience it/Him exactly and just like you did; is not saved, nor is saved till they do, ect, ect, so on and so forth...?

You not suggesting that right...?

Because I don't think God is that limited, and is much more multifaceted than that...

God Bless!

Everyone has a personal, individual relationship with God. I think what you are talking about is grieving the Holy Spirit, not quenching the Holy Spirit. Quenching is a slap in the face.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Paul said that there is nothing good in him, that is in his flesh. This means that he was never a humanist and did not ascribe anything in him that would make him any better than he ever was. He said at the beginning of 1 Corinthians that he would not allow any man to judge him, and he would not even judge himself, but leave the judgment up to his Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Through that statement, he turned his back on the 'little god" of his flesh and concentrated on walking in the Spirit. He then depended on the Holy Spirit to determine for him what was good and what was not.

This is why it is part of of Adam and Eve's rebellion against God to try and follow the Ten Commandment or any other rule of holiness in the flesh. To do that to try and make ourselves closer to God is being a god and making our decisions about what we think is holy or profane. We need to turn away from that and turn to Christ and put our whole dependence on Him and walk in the Spirit, allowing God to make decisions for us about what He thinks is holy and what is profane in our conduct.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You make a lot of good points...

But I don't consider ones humbling themselves or choosing to humble themselves till they are truly out of it (sin) is a kind of false humility or anything...?

I think it is the way to true humility...

God Bless!

If we try to make ourselves humble in the flesh, we rebel against God and grieve the Holy Spirit. There is nothing that God likes in our flesh and to try to do things in the flesh is totally unacceptable to God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I was in church for 30 years without the Holy Spirit! I wasn't saved! I had to constantly repent, because I was always doing something wrong. That is I was powerless. But when out of integrity of heart and honesty that I acknowledged in my own mind that I was indeed helpless, only then did I receive the Holy Spirit and wham, my life took 180 degree about face.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You were being your own god and deciding what was good about yourself and what was profane, and so you kept on repenting from what you felt was profane. But that was not getting you anywhere because all your repenting was to intensify your rebellion against God and breaking that commandment that "Youi shall have no other gods before Me." Even being your own god is a breach of the commandment, and making your own personal judgment about what is good and what is evil about yourself is being your own god and aligning yourself up with the disobedient Adam and Eve who became their own gods as soon as they ate the forbidden fruit.

But as soon as you confessed your helplessness and acknowledged your complete dependence on Christ for everything, and turned away from trying to be good in your flesh, that is when you were filled with the Spirit and were genuinely converted to Christ.

When Paul said that there was no condemnation for those who are in Christ who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh, it had nothing to do with following the Ten Commandments at all, nor did it have anything to do with the quest for holiness or walking in the flesh being unholiness. Walking in the flesh had everything to do with making your own decisions about what was holy for you and what was profane. Being in the flesh is the act of being your own "little god", making judgments about yourself and others that only the Living God has the right to make.

 

[Neogaia777]

If we try to make ourselves humble in the flesh, we rebel against God and grieve the Holy Spirit. There is nothing that God likes in our flesh and to try to do things in the flesh is totally unacceptable to God.

I'm juts talking about choosing to humble yourself in the face of something in which you maybe should humble yourself, instead of choosing otherwise and getting upset, being offended, angry, walking in pride, lashing out, ect...

However there are some things maybe in which you should get or have these latter feelings or reactions about, but for all to many, it is just them defending themselves and their own pride... or protecting their own god made in their own image and likeness that they made, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

This is exactly what I am talking about. You were being your own god and deciding what was good about yourself and what was profane, and so you kept on repenting from what you felt was profane. But that was not getting you anywhere because all your repenting was to intensify your rebellion against God and breaking that commandment that "Youi shall have no other gods before Me." Even being your own god is a breach of the commandment, and making your own personal judgment about what is good and what is evil about yourself is being your own god and aligning yourself up with the disobedient Adam and Eve who became their own gods as soon as they ate the forbidden fruit.

But as soon as you confessed your helplessness and acknowledged your complete dependence on Christ for everything, and turned away from trying to be good in your flesh, that is when you were filled with the Spirit and were genuinely converted to Christ.

When Paul said that there was no condemnation for those who are in Christ who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh, it had nothing to do with following the Ten Commandments at all, nor did it have anything to do with the quest for holiness or walking in the flesh being unholiness. Walking in the flesh had everything to do with making your own decisions about what was holy for you and what was profane. Being in the flesh is the act of being your own "little god", making judgments about yourself and others that only the Living God has the right to make.

Certainly we have to decide for ourselves or have to know what is right and wrong, good or bad, for ourselves, and try to walk in what is good and avoid and choose to reject what is bad, right...?

Because, or after all, without that, what do you/we have...?

Or is it not really about good or bad at all, or what...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

If a person dies while still a sinner or is not or does not become sinless before they die at maybe a ripe old age, but is professing believer but that still or still did sin some, are they saved, or were they ever saved, or can they truly be saved either after that or right before that, ect...?

And if they can, how or what has to happen before they go, or what has to present with them and in them before they go, ect, if anything...?

And if they cannot, then explain please, if you would please, or elaborate a bit...?

Much thanks,

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Certainly we have to decide for ourselves or have to know what is right and wrong, good or bad, for ourselves, and try to walk in what is good and avoid and choose to reject what is bad, right...?

Because, or after all, without that, what do you/we have...?

Or is it not really about good or bad at all, or what...?

God Bless!

This is the point I am making. We don't decide for ourselves. That would be in the flesh. We are not our own gods to have the right to do that. We walk in the Spirit and are led by the Spirit. It is not what we think of ourselves, it is what Jesus thinks of us. Paul said, "We have the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead." If we decide to be our own gods and judge for ourselves what is right or wrong, we are coming from death and not life in the Spirit.

This is the whole point. Before Adam and Eve fell through disobedience, they had no discernment of good or evil at all. They walked with and fellowshipped with God. It was only when they were tricked by the devil and fell that they knew good from evil. That's what the devil told them, that they would become "as God", to know good from evil. They took the side of the devil who wanted to dethrone God and become God himself. Therefore even to know good from evil to be able to decide is a result of the Fall, that men and women have become their own gods.

This is why the converted Christian turns his or her back on personal "godship" and no longer thinks about good and evil, but keeps their eyes on Christ who is the author and finisher of their faith.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm juts talking about choosing to humble yourself in the face of something in which you maybe should humble yourself, instead of choosing otherwise and getting upset, being offended, angry, walking in pride, lashing out, ect...

However there are some things maybe in which you should get or have these latter feelings or reactions about, but for all to many, it is just them defending themselves and their own pride... or protecting their own god made in their own image and likeness that they made, ect...

God Bless!

If we have our eyes on Christ and are walking in the Spirit then are minds are transformed to have the mind of Christ, and we trust that what God doesn't like about us, He will change. We don't even have to worry about it. The Scripture says that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. This means that we don't have to think about being anything at all. We just put our trust in Christ that He will transform us into the persons He wants us to be. We then put the whole business of good and evil on His desk and leave it there, because it is none of our business any longer, but His. If we start talking to the Lord about good and evil, He will say to us, "What is that to you? Mind your own business and follow Me."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If a person dies while still a sinner or is not or does not become sinless before they die at maybe a ripe old age, but is professing believer but that still or still did sin some, are they saved, or were they ever saved, or can they truly be saved either after that or right before that, ect...?

And if they can, how or what has to happen before they go, or what has to present with them and in them before they go, ect, if anything...?

And if they cannot, then explain please, if you would please, or elaborate a bit...?

Much thanks,

God Bless!

How much of a Saviour is Jesus to those who have accepted Him as Saviour and Lord? Is He just half a Saviour or a complete one? And if He is a complete one does that mean the whole sin issue is dealt with by His death on the cross, or just some of it?

If what I have been saying about good and evil in my posts is true and that the issue of good and evil is no longer our business but His, and He has dealt with the whole issue of good and evil in our flesh (because that is where it all lies), we no longer walk in the flesh but in the Spirit, then is God going to judge us by the good and evil in our flesh, or our walk in the Spirit?

The fact is, we are either in the flesh or in the Spirit. We can't be in both at the same time. And there is no such thing as being half in the flesh and half in the Spirit. If we are in the flesh, it is because we are not genuinely converted to Christ. but if we are genuinely converted to Christ, then we are not only living in the Spirit but are walking in the Spirit as well.

If indeed we are living and walking in the Spirit, the good and evil in us becomes a total non issue with God, because He views us through the righteousness of Christ and there is no perception of good and evil in that.

If we are still looking at ourselves in terms of good and evil, we do not believe the Scripture that Jesus was made sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him. But if that Scripture is true, then it shows that God does not look on us in terms of sinfulness, but in terms of the righteousness of Christ. In fact, He does not see the sinfulness of our flesh, because as far as He is concerned the flesh is dead in Christ. This is why the Scripture says that we should reckon ourselves as dead in ourselves and alive in Christ.

So, being alive in Christ means that there is no perception of good and evil because it is no longer an issue.

The problem is that the devil brings up the shortcomings and failures of our flesh to corrupt our minds and prevent us to having faith in our standing with Christ. But the devil is a liar, so any accusation that is levelled at us of sin is a total lie because he is the accuser of the brethren.

 

[thesunisout]

What is the best "way" to, if possible, to work toward of follow in keeping the commandments...?

What does keeping the commandments mean to you...? What does it look like...?

And/if because if you do have a different view, then, "What is it, basically or IOW's...?"

Or some of you might think keeping the commandments is not the main point, and if so, could you explain that maybe...?

Or some of might think it/that is not the point at all, and if so, could you explain that maybe...? Or tell us what is the point then maybe...?

Is is possible to keep the commandments or not...? And, if not, should we pursue or work toward keeping them at all...? And then if so, or if that answer is yes, then, "how"...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

John 14:15

If you love Me, keep My commandments

Our love for the Lord is the basis for keeping His commandments. If we love Him, we will keep them and we don't, we won't.

Abiding in Christ, which is explained in John 15, is the how of it. He said if we abide in Him, He will abide in us. It's the power of Christ working in us which gives us the ability to obey His commandments. Without Christ working in us, we will be unable to obey His commands.

Our love for Christ causes us to draw near to Him, which causes Him to draw near us and He will empower us to obey His commands.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yet multitudes claim to love God, and they deny His Word, they deny Jesus, they never have Jesus as Lord of their heart or soul or mind or life,
and they never keep His commandments. They never obey Him, only doing what they do for show. (as written in Scripture)

Choosing to obey Him, choosing to follow Him, choosing to do as He says,
all by sheer grace as Yahweh accomplishes salvation ,
is love.
Choosing to hate Him, choosing to disobey Him, choosing to stay selfish, serving demons, keeps one condemned, under judgment , doomed.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Certainly we have to decide for ourselves or have to know what is right and wrong, good or bad, for ourselves, and try to walk in what is good and avoid and choose to reject what is bad, right...?

Because, or after all, without that, what do you/we have...?

Or is it not really about good or bad at all, or what...?

God Bless!

Don't forget, that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Not just Evil. Everyone knows right from wrong, but it is only through the Holy Spirit IN us, can we truly become righteous, for the righteousness of man is as filthy rags.

 

[1stcenturylady]

If we try to make ourselves humble in the flesh, we rebel against God and grieve the Holy Spirit. There is nothing that God likes in our flesh and to try to do things in the flesh is totally unacceptable to God.

I can't accept this statement, or maybe it is just semantics, but "in the flesh" to me means while unsaved. Romans 8:9 says we who have the Spirit are NOT in the flesh. And if you don't have the Spirit, you are not a Christian. Therefore, you can't be "in the flesh" and "in the Spirit" at the same time. To me it is either black or white, not black and white.

To me, while unsaved is when we need to come to the place where we acknowledge our own weakness, and turn completely to Jesus - to be given the power of the Spirit. After receiving the power that is God, Paul says, "I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me." We are not boasting about ourselves, but boasting about the Lord. After, having been given the power, we need to remain humble knowing that what we do that is good only comes from Him, and not ourselves. (Maybe that is what you meant. The phrase, "in the flesh," throws me.)

I know there are some on the forum who think it is humble to claim to be like Paul and call yourself the worst sinner. Yikes! That is a person who doesn't know who they are in Christ. I think Paul's meaning is not that he is still a sinner, but from the depths he was redeemed. For if there is no evidence of power over sin in one's life, they cannot claim to be on the path to being saved, let alone be an apostle and preach the power of God to redeem and cleanse to the utmost. How can Paul claim to be a sinner still, and preach that we are dead to sin? No! Paul and John do not contradict each other. A Christian is not a sinner, but is a son of God, John 8:34-36. "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14.

 

[bangmegafan]

love your neighbor as you love yourself

 

[Bruce Leiter]

What is the best "way" to, if possible, to work toward of follow in keeping the commandments...?

What does keeping the commandments mean to you...? What does it look like...?

And/if because if you do have a different view, then, "What is it, basically or IOW's...?"

Or some of you might think keeping the commandments is not the main point, and if so, could you explain that maybe...?

Or some of might think it/that is not the point at all, and if so, could you explain that maybe...? Or tell us what is the point then maybe...?

Is is possible to keep the commandments or not...? And, if not, should we pursue or work toward keeping them at all...? And then if so, or if that answer is yes, then, "how"...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

And God bless you too! Part of the answer is in the very first part of God's commandments in Exodus 20. In that passage, it was God's own booming voice that he used to speak them, and the first words were a summary of his deliverance from Egypt's slavery. Many of us are not descended from Israel, to whom the ten commandments were spoken. However, the external form the Old Testament's laws was for the nation of Israel as their national laws, but the intentions and principles are for all Christians as well. For example, Jesus has delivered us from Satan's slavery as a NT parallel to Israel's rescue.

For example, the principles behind the commandments are for all believers. Jesus' sermon on the mount expanded on those ideas (self-centered anger = murder, lust = adultery).

Most of the commandments are negative as Israel needed them, but they involve many positive principles: respect for authorities (parents), protect life, respect for other people's possessions).

That being said, we all fall short of God's perfect standards for our conduct and inner life. Similar NT passages are Romans 12-16, Ephesians 4-6, Colossians 3, Hebrews 12 and 13.

So then, how can we make progress? To me, the key is Jesus' death and resurrection. In Paul's letters I just referred to, Romans 1-11, Ephesians 1-3, Colossians 1-2, and Hebrews 1-11 all describe the "already" of the gospel--what Jesus has already accomplished in presenting believers perfect in God our Father's sight as our Judge, who declares us right with him because of Jesus' victory. It's a little like D-Day in WW2. That day the war was over in principle as its turning point, but in practice it wasn't.

Similarly, the war between God and Satan was over in principle when Jesus died but not over in practice (the "not yet" of the gospel). The results had to take place in our lives.

Therefore, as believers, we need to claim in persistent prayer the victory of Jesus' death over our sinful nature qualities that remain in us and the triumph of his resurrection for their replacement with the new nature qualities such as the fruit of the Holy Spirit and God's principles in all of Scripture.

The bottom line is that we can't make any progress in our own strength but only in God's power through Jesus' victory by way of persistent prayer.

To the end of helping Christians' spiritual growth, I have published two devotional Bible studies with more to follow. Just type "Bruce Leiter" into Amazon search. You can see them there.

 

[Neogaia777]

How much of a Saviour is Jesus to those who have accepted Him as Saviour and Lord? Is He just half a Saviour or a complete one? And if He is a complete one does that mean the whole sin issue is dealt with by His death on the cross, or just some of it?

If what I have been saying about good and evil in my posts is true and that the issue of good and evil is no longer our business but His, and He has dealt with the whole issue of good and evil in our flesh (because that is where it all lies), we no longer walk in the flesh but in the Spirit, then is God going to judge us by the good and evil in our flesh, or our walk in the Spirit?

The fact is, we are either in the flesh or in the Spirit. We can't be in both at the same time. And there is no such thing as being half in the flesh and half in the Spirit. If we are in the flesh, it is because we are not genuinely converted to Christ. but if we are genuinely converted to Christ, then we are not only living in the Spirit but are walking in the Spirit as well.

If indeed we are living and walking in the Spirit, the good and evil in us becomes a total non issue with God, because He views us through the righteousness of Christ and there is no perception of good and evil in that.

If we are still looking at ourselves in terms of good and evil, we do not believe the Scripture that Jesus was made sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him. But if that Scripture is true, then it shows that God does not look on us in terms of sinfulness, but in terms of the righteousness of Christ. In fact, He does not see the sinfulness of our flesh, because as far as He is concerned the flesh is dead in Christ. This is why the Scripture says that we should reckon ourselves as dead in ourselves and alive in Christ.

So, being alive in Christ means that there is no perception of good and evil because it is no longer an issue.

The problem is that the devil brings up the shortcomings and failures of our flesh to corrupt our minds and prevent us to having faith in our standing with Christ. But the devil is a liar, so any accusation that is levelled at us of sin is a total lie because he is the accuser of the brethren.

So, he or she is saved or not saved, or what...?

Like your posts BTW...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

John 14:15

If you love Me, keep My commandments

Our love for the Lord is the basis for keeping His commandments. If we love Him, we will keep them and we don't, we won't.

Abiding in Christ, which is explained in John 15, is the how of it. He said if we abide in Him, He will abide in us. It's the power of Christ working in us which gives us the ability to obey His commandments. Without Christ working in us, we will be unable to obey His commands.

Our love for Christ causes us to draw near to Him, which causes Him to draw near us and He will empower us to obey His commands.

Can you answer post #87 on this page, or not...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

How much of a Saviour is Jesus to those who have accepted Him as Saviour and Lord? Is He just half a Saviour or a complete one? And if He is a complete one does that mean the whole sin issue is dealt with by His death on the cross, or just some of it?

If what I have been saying about good and evil in my posts is true and that the issue of good and evil is no longer our business but His, and He has dealt with the whole issue of good and evil in our flesh (because that is where it all lies), we no longer walk in the flesh but in the Spirit, then is God going to judge us by the good and evil in our flesh, or our walk in the Spirit?

The fact is, we are either in the flesh or in the Spirit. We can't be in both at the same time. And there is no such thing as being half in the flesh and half in the Spirit. If we are in the flesh, it is because we are not genuinely converted to Christ. but if we are genuinely converted to Christ, then we are not only living in the Spirit but are walking in the Spirit as well.

If indeed we are living and walking in the Spirit, the good and evil in us becomes a total non issue with God, because He views us through the righteousness of Christ and there is no perception of good and evil in that.

If we are still looking at ourselves in terms of good and evil, we do not believe the Scripture that Jesus was made sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him. But if that Scripture is true, then it shows that God does not look on us in terms of sinfulness, but in terms of the righteousness of Christ. In fact, He does not see the sinfulness of our flesh, because as far as He is concerned the flesh is dead in Christ. This is why the Scripture says that we should reckon ourselves as dead in ourselves and alive in Christ.

So, being alive in Christ means that there is no perception of good and evil because it is no longer an issue.

The problem is that the devil brings up the shortcomings and failures of our flesh to corrupt our minds and prevent us to having faith in our standing with Christ. But the devil is a liar, so any accusation that is levelled at us of sin is a total lie because he is the accuser of the brethren.

So, if were saved our sin does not matter or is no longer sin, or what...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

If we have our eyes on Christ and are walking in the Spirit then are minds are transformed to have the mind of Christ, and we trust that what God doesn't like about us, He will change. We don't even have to worry about it. The Scripture says that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. This means that we don't have to think about being anything at all. We just put our trust in Christ that He will transform us into the persons He wants us to be. We then put the whole business of good and evil on His desk and leave it there, because it is none of our business any longer, but His. If we start talking to the Lord about good and evil, He will say to us, "What is that to you? Mind your own business and follow Me."

What if a person dies with sin in their life...?

God Bless!