What is the best "way" to, if possible, to work toward of follow in keeping the commandments...?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So, he or she is saved or not saved, or what...?

Like your posts BTW...

God Bless!

A person can take hold of the promises of God and receive Christ on that foundation and God will always keep His promises. But he or she is not actually saved yet. What has to happen, and it will happen to a genuine believer, is that a total transformation of heart and spirit takes place. This is called Christian conversion. If there is no transformation, then the person has just got religion and is not converted and therefore not saved yet. The truly converted Christian has absolutely no doubt that a total recreation has taken place in him or her, because it has actually happened. He doesn't have to pretend it has happened or taken it "on faith" without the actual evidence in him or herself that the change has really happened.

I am not a fan of "easy believerism" where a sinner can waltz up to the altar, pray a prayer and then walk around, "I am saved now" without substantive evidence of a total transformation.

But once Christian conversion has taken place, then the whole sin question is totally sorted, because the believer has become a totally new creature in Christ. He has passed from death to life. The sins of the flesh no longer dominate him. He loves holiness and hates sin, especially in himself. Although sinfulness still remains in his mortal flesh, he knows that it is under the sentence of death, so he turns away from it and being alive in the Spirit and dead to the flesh, he starts to walk in the Spirit. This is because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set him free from the law of sin and death in his flesh.

He then has the power to choose to turn away from the deeds of the flesh to the works of faith and power in the Spirit.

I believe that most who say they have struggles with sin is because they have favourite, enjoyable sins they don't want to give up. They desire to have their sins and Christ as well, but it doesn't work that way. One has the choice to turn away from all known sin. The struggle is in the will, because the desire to sin is still there and the person desires to get away with their favourite sinful habit patterns and try to be religious at the same time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What if a person dies with sin in their life...?

God Bless!

If a person continues in willful sin and hides it from God and from others, it means that their conversion is not genuine, therefore they will be lost. But every genuinely converted believer will have a battle with the flesh. Every time they succumb to unwelcome temptation, they will go to God's throne of grace and confess their failure and they will be totally forgiven and cleansed. A genuinely converted believer will never try to hide their faults but will make God aware of them every time.

A religious hypocrite, although keeping a very believable profession of Christianity and doing everything a genuine Christian does, will hide their sinful habit patterns and will practice their sins in secret, attempting to hide them from God. They make excuses for sin instead of plainly declaring them to God as sin and asking forgiveness and cleansing.

We have seen some prominent TV evangelists whom we would think are great Christians, but then we find that they have embezzled funds from their organisations, committed adultery with prostitutes and have only been found out when they got caught. Only then have they gone on TV and wept their hypocritical tears and feigned repentance. I have doubts as to whether these ones were truly converted to Christ at all, but just had religion and gone on to hoodwink people to think they are true representatives of Christ.

But God sees all, right into our hearts. He knows what is in there. The Scripture is plain, "The foundation stands sure: God knows who are truly His."

 

[Gregory Wilson]

The way I see it, Matthew 5:19 says keeping the commandments (of the Law of Moses, apparently) will lead to one being called GREAT in the Kingdom of God. So I think we should study the Law and seek to apply it, as well as the rest of the bible! Shalom - שלום! (God's peace to you).
-Greg

 

[ToBeLoved]

A person can take hold of the promises of God and receive Christ on that foundation and God will always keep His promises. But he or she is not actually saved yet. What has to happen, and it will happen to a genuine believer, is that a total transformation of heart and spirit takes place. This is called Christian conversion. If there is no transformation, then the person has just got religion and is not converted and therefore not saved yet. The truly converted Christian has absolutely no doubt that a total recreation has taken place in him or her, because it has actually happened. He doesn't have to pretend it has happened or taken it "on faith" without the actual evidence in him or herself that the change has really happened.
.

This is a false gospel.

To say that after Christ has saved a person they are not saved yet and that they have to regenerate themselves is false.

Christ regenerates the new Child of God, seals them in the New Covenant with the Holy Spirit and creates the new creature in Christ.

Then and only then, does our will come into play. That we choose to listen and heed the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sin and leads us in the ways of righteousness.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is a false gospel.

To say that after Christ has saved a person they are not saved yet and that they have to regenerate themselves is false.

Christ regenerates the new Child of God, seals them in the New Covenant with the Holy Spirit and creates the new creature in Christ.

Then and only then, does our will come into play. That we choose to listen and heed the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sin and leads us in the ways of righteousness.

The point that I am making is that just deciding to make a profession of Christianity is not salvation. It is just getting religion until the Holy Spirit does the work of conversion in the person's spirit and heart. Anyone can go to church, live a moral life, use Christian words, learn the Bible, but none of those make a genuinely converted Christian.

You are right. A person cannot regenerate themselves, which proves my point. Easy believerism is when a person does the religious stuff and then presumes they are saved. That is presumption and not faith in God's promises.

After making the profession of Christianity, the new believer has to press into God for Him to do the transforming work of genuine conversion. It is not automatic at the time of making the profession. It has to be sought for on ones knees before God. It is not enough to pretend to be converted if there is no substantive evidence of it in the person's life, conduct, and demeanour.

Just because a person says they are a Christian doesn't mean that they actually are one. A person can put on the "white suit" of Christian profession and appear to one and all that they are in the faith, when, until God does the work of conversion in the person, their heart still remains as black as the Ace of Spades.

 

[thesunisout]

If a person dies while still a sinner or is not or does not become sinless before they die at maybe a ripe old age, but is professing believer but that still or still did sin some, are they saved, or were they ever saved, or can they truly be saved either after that or right before that, ect...?

And if they can, how or what has to happen before they go, or what has to present with them and in them before they go, ect, if anything...?

And if they cannot, then explain please, if you would please, or elaborate a bit...?

Much thanks,

God Bless!

Romans 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Does the Spirit of God dwell in you? Then you are saved and you will be with the Lord. If not, you are not saved and you won't be with the Lord when you die.

If you live a backslidden unrepentant life then I believe the Lord will cut you off at some point as it says in John 15. If you struggle with sin, like we all do, I believe the Lord will continue to work with you until He takes you home. It's our hearts that He is after, and even though we may struggle, He can take even that mustard seed of faith and make something beautiful out of it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

This is a false gospel.

To say that after Christ has saved a person they are not saved yet and that they have to regenerate themselves is false.

Christ regenerates the new Child of God, seals them in the New Covenant with the Holy Spirit and creates the new creature in Christ.

Then and only then, does our will come into play. That we choose to listen and heed the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sin and leads us in the ways of righteousness.

Hey, sis -

Isn't that Calvinism? That when God chooses to save someone, He regenerates them, and THEN they are able to repent by irresistible grace? Or is that Lutheran? I thought I read you say, you weren't Calvinist. Or was that someone else? My memory is getting bad.


Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

If God commands all men everywhere to repent, then according to Calvin or Luther, everyone is saved if He regenerates all men everywhere.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Someones got receiving the Holy Spirit before repentance. Can't remember which. But the Holy Spirit calls everyone, but it is up to us to repent. To say we aren't able to, is opinion, not scripture. It also implies that we can never walk away, but will always be saved. That again is not scriptural.

 

[1213]

What is the best "way" to, if possible, to work toward of follow in keeping the commandments...?

What does keeping the commandments mean to you...? ...

To me, it means:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

 

[corinth77777]

Just trying to narrow it down where your belief comes from. You see, I'm a writer, and need to know other doctrines. When a belief is against scripture, and you hear it over and over, it must have come from somewhere. Where? It is nothing against you. You are probably repeating doctrines you've heard. It is just that my curiosity was piqued. And your profile's generic "Christian" doesn't tell me anything.

Woe

 

[corinth77777]

A person can take hold of the promises of God and receive Christ on that foundation and God will always keep His promises. But he or she is not actually saved yet. What has to happen, and it will happen to a genuine believer, is that a total transformation of heart and spirit takes place. This is called Christian conversion. If there is no transformation, then the person has just got religion and is not converted and therefore not saved yet. The truly converted Christian has absolutely no doubt that a total recreation has taken place in him or her, because it has actually happened. He doesn't have to pretend it has happened or taken it "on faith" without the actual evidence in him or herself that the change has really happened.

I am not a fan of "easy believerism" where a sinner can waltz up to the altar, pray a prayer and then walk around, "I am saved now" without substantive evidence of a total transformation.

But once Christian conversion has taken place, then the whole sin question is totally sorted, because the believer has become a totally new creature in Christ. He has passed from death to life. The sins of the flesh no longer dominate him. He loves holiness and hates sin, especially in himself. Although sinfulness still remains in his mortal flesh, he knows that it is under the sentence of death, so he turns away from it and being alive in the Spirit and dead to the flesh, he starts to walk in the Spirit. This is because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set him free from the law of sin and death in his flesh.

He then has the power to choose to turn away from the deeds of the flesh to the works of faith and power in the Spirit.

I believe that most who say they have struggles with sin is because they have favourite, enjoyable sins they don't want to give up. They desire to have their sins and Christ as well, but it doesn't work that way. One has the choice to turn away from all known sin. The struggle is in the will, because the desire to sin is still there and the person desires to get away with their favourite sinful habit patterns and try to be religious at the same time.

I like some of what you said....
But maybe you need to explain step by step the conversion process?

I believe when people look to Jesus as who He says He is they are forgiven...of past sins.....
And when they believe on Him they will possess life eternal.
These are just my thoughts though...
The question really should be ...what is salvation as a noun, verb, or adjective? And what are people saved from?For people can be saved from many things.

For example a person can be saved from passed sins, in order...or to be saved from future sins.

Salvation to me Is then: Jesus's death and in or through Jesus's life.

Regeneration I would say is ongoing. For we are saved by His death to be saved by His life.

Saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the spirit.
What does the above mean? It sounds like Lord Jesus...Christ, His death burial and resurrection.

So there are a few ways to think about this.
Either He gave us all of this through His Spirit. And passed sins were forgiven. [Saved]
So the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Spirit is [christ's Life] in us.

Or the washing of the regeneration is by Looking to Christ as Lord [forgiven of sins]
And trusting in His resurrection [renewal of the Holy Spirit]

These are just thoughts...one can argue them if they like .

Some passages that led me to these views are; WHO EVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

WHO EVER BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED

IF ANY ONE LOOKS TO THE SON AND BELIEVES HE WILL HAVE LIFE AND RAISED ON LAST DAY

AND THIS IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES US NOW 1 PETER 3- ANSWER TO A CLEAR CONSCIENCE BEFORE GOD

Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. <11>And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Note:wrath of God ....is not in all tranlation

"But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
2peter1:9

I'LL STOP THERE FOR A WHILE...TO SEE IF ANY ONE HAS ANYTHING TO SAY ON THIS

 

[corinth77777]

This is exactly what I am talking about. You were being your own god and deciding what was good about yourself and what was profane, and so you kept on repenting from what you felt was profane. But that was not getting you anywhere because all your repenting was to intensify your rebellion against God and breaking that commandment that "Youi shall have no other gods before Me." Even being your own god is a breach of the commandment, and making your own personal judgment about what is good and what is evil about yourself is being your own god and aligning yourself up with the disobedient Adam and Eve who became their own gods as soon as they ate the forbidden fruit.

But as soon as you confessed your helplessness and acknowledged your complete dependence on Christ for everything, and turned away from trying to be good in your flesh, that is when you were filled with the Spirit and were genuinely converted to Christ.

When Paul said that there was no condemnation for those who are in Christ who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh, it had nothing to do with following the Ten Commandments at all, nor did it have anything to do with the quest for holiness or walking in the flesh being unholiness. Walking in the flesh had everything to do with making your own decisions about what was holy for you and what was profane. Being in the flesh is the act of being your own "little god", making judgments about yourself and others that only the Living God has the right to make.

The Law is not the source of salvation...but it is the course....

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Roman's 8:4

 

[corinth77777]

It didn't replace the OC though, but it "drew a bigger circle around that circle" basically, if you get what I mean by that...

And I wish to understand that aspect of it...?

God Bless!

I see what you are saying,
But it did replace the old.
Think of a covenant contract as a marriage contract.

The First Husband dies, and the wife can be married to a new one.

Will the new husband have the same contract or rules?

Yet some of the rules can be in the new that were in the old.

We couldn't keep God's commandments..because of the weakness of the flesh...Israel was an example of this.

But the word of God, Jesus could. We can through or in the word[Jesus] too. Jesus lived by words proceeded by the father and we live by words proceeded from the son to access the Father.
Recall how things are created or made
Everything that was created was created by Him, for Him and through Him.
Even now...we are His workmanship created in Christ unto Good works that God preordainended beforehand that we should walk in them.

More so in my thinking,...Did Jesus die for the sins of the flesh and the Spirit? Or did He die for the sins of the Flesh so that our spirits [lives now,or life we are living now can be saved in this world[lifetime we are living in now] where his beautiful display of Love...
Could keep us from falling now so that if we feared not here we would not fear at His coming- Knowing of our relationship now.???

 

[ToBeLoved]

The point that I am making is that just deciding to make a profession of Christianity is not salvation. It is just getting religion until the Holy Spirit does the work of conversion in the person's spirit and heart. Anyone can go to church, live a moral life, use Christian words, learn the Bible, but none of those make a genuinely converted Christian.

You are right. A person cannot regenerate themselves, which proves my point. Easy believerism is when a person does the religious stuff and then presumes they are saved. That is presumption and not faith in God's promises.

After making the profession of Christianity, the new believer has to press into God for Him to do the transforming work of genuine conversion. It is not automatic at the time of making the profession. It has to be sought for on ones knees before God. It is not enough to pretend to be converted if there is no substantive evidence of it in the person's life, conduct, and demeanour.

Just because a person says they are a Christian doesn't mean that they actually are one. A person can put on the "white suit" of Christian profession and appear to one and all that they are in the faith, when, until God does the work of conversion in the person, their heart still remains as black as the Ace of Spades.

I’m not sure how you can justify a false gospel with this.

The gospel should be the one thing we all get right.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It didn't replace the OC though, but it "drew a bigger circle around that circle" basically, if you get what I mean by that...

And I wish to understand that aspect of it...?

God Bless!

No. It literally replaced the Old Covenant and was always meant to.

Do you think that the entire Old Testament was a foreshadow of the Messiah and they wanted the Messiah to come to not have a new and better Covenant?

The Old Testament prophesized the New Covenant

 

[ToBeLoved]

Oh, yes, I do believe He is a God of second chances. And third. But what is scary to me is that I was in church for 30 years without the Holy Spirit! I wasn't saved! I had to constantly repent, because I was always doing something wrong. That is I was powerless. But when out of integrity of heart and honesty that I acknowledged in my own mind that I was indeed helpless, only then did I receive the Holy Spirit and wham, my life took 180 degree about face.

From then on we may grieve the Spirit, at which point we are out of fellowship with God, and must truly repent all over again. But once you've suffered enough from going your own way, you finally agree, it is just better to be obedient and not grieve the Spirit. Hebrews 5:8. And we never want to quench the Spirit. At that point, I think Hebrews 6 comes into play.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

The one thing I really have an issues with with Christians is how they mold their theology based on their own experience.

If you personally mislead yourself for 30 years in your walk with God, I am glad that you eventually have come to the truth. Praise God!

But as I read your posts, it seems based off of your experience, that you chose in your heart and mind to do is then reflected in posts as a reality for others in which you choose to respond to others based off your own biases, because of your own choices.

This is why I take most posts with a grain of salt because Christians overall are very biased and put the problems of their own Christian walk upon others.

We are not called to be bias of scripture or come to conclusion or judgement based off our own mistakes and/or spiritual failings or shortcomings.

That is lack of humility. To think that an individual or ourself is the pattern and God works the same through every other individual as He does with us.

When we realize our personal spiritual experience is personal and that God works with and through each individual according to His personal will and calling, we realize not everyone is like US and that God is a God of personal relationships and personal walks, with individual people.

Why people put their spiritual issues or shortcomings on others only confuses New Christians.

 

[Neogaia777]

No. It literally replaced the Old Covenant and was always meant to.

Do you think that the entire Old Testament was a foreshadow of the Messiah and they wanted the Messiah to come to not have a new and better Covenant?

The Old Testament prophesized the New Covenant

The NC of faith and Love "encompasses" fully and even goes above and beyond the OC, but/and so, does not nullify it completely...

Cause Perfect Love will lead to obeying the OC fully and easily... "Perfect Love" or once Love is perfected in you, that is...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hey, sis -

Isn't that Calvinism? That when God chooses to save someone, He regenerates them, and THEN they are able to repent by irresistible grace? Or is that Lutheran? I thought I read you say, you weren't Calvinist. Or was that someone else? My memory is getting bad.


Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

If God commands all men everywhere to repent, then according to Calvin or Luther, everyone is saved if He regenerates all men everywhere.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Someones got receiving the Holy Spirit before repentance. Can't remember which. But the Holy Spirit calls everyone, but it is up to us to repent. To say we aren't able to, is opinion, not scripture. It also implies that we can never walk away, but will always be saved. That again is not scriptural.

That post I replied to is not about repentance or Calvinism.

The point the other poster made was that a person makes themselves into a new creation. But that is false.

God makes His Children into a new creation.

If you want to go back and read the post I replied to, it should be clearer.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The NC of faith and Love "encompasses" fully and even goes above and beyond the OC, but/and so, does not nullify it completely...

Cause Perfect Love will lead to obeying the OC fully and easily... "Perfect Love" or once Love is perfected in you, that is...

God Bless!

Then you do not believe scripture. Scripture is clear on the subject.

What you need to decide is if scripture shapes your theology or if your opinions shape your theology.

What is your scripture references to support your theology?

 

[Neogaia777]

Then you do not believe scripture. Scripture is clear on the subject.

What you need to decide is if scripture shapes your theology or if your opinions shape your theology.

What is your scripture references to support your theology?

What is yours...? Since you say that I do not believe what the scripture clearly says, please show me the scripture where it clearly says the OC or OT Law was completely replaced and or done away with entirely, and I will concede to what you are saying, but if not, I will not, K...?

And I'll give you a few of mine, K...?

Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

1 Timothy 1:8 "But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully."

Romans 7:12 "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

Romans 7:16 "If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good."



Now what is yours saying it (the Law or the OC) was 100% and completely nullified and/or completely done away with, and/or replaced entirely, and I'll shut up, K...?

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I’m not sure how you can justify a false gospel with this.

The gospel should be the one thing we all get right.

So, you are saying that every single person who puts on a Christian "badge" is truly converted? Do we convert ourselves by adopting the Christian religion, or are we born of the Spirit?
What do you say about a person who says they are a Christian, goes to church, says all the correct words, knows the Bible - and then goes out and has a homosexual affair, or is a pedophile, and yet maintains a Christian appearance every Sunday at church. That person would have "accepted" Christ, but he has held on to his sins, He has not shown the evidence of a true conversion. What went wrong? Did he make a profession of Christianity by praying the sinners prayers, and yet continued on in his old lifestyle, hiding it from other church members who thought he had made an honest decision for Christ.

How do you know who is a true Christian and who is a hypocrite?

In 1672, Joseph Alleine wrote a book called "An Alarm To The Unconverted". It can be downloaded as a PDF. It shows what true conversion is and what it isn't. He says that it is a definite work of the Holy Spirit in a person that comes after making the profession of Christianity. Read it through and then come back and comment again.