Was Ceremonial Law Abolished?

[HARK!]

Gentiles were give 4 commands, repeated 3 times in Acts. and were specifically told only these 4 things.

Wrong again!

(CLV) 1Co 6:9
Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,

(CLV) 1Co 6:10
nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; not revilers, not extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.

 

[Scott Husted]

Does Yahshua call you to follow him?

He asks that I pick up my cross first before I follow him ... this is probably redundant to say but do I now go construct a wooden cross that I might pick it up as a prerequisite of following him ... of course not this would be silly really ... it's a, do I worship in this mountain or that mountain ... Jesus did not condone either. In spirit and in truth is the key. God is a spirit his law is spirit, a living experiential truth ie. relationship, fellowship, just as the three feasts one is called up to Jerusalem every year to keep.

The law with it's feasts, times, weeks, years of times are relational truths of the inner man, no less then how God began with one and ended it with one man.

 

[Dkh587]

Read your Bible.

(CLV) Ac 18:4
Now he argued in the synagogue on every sabbath and persuaded both Jews and Greeks

So much for Gentiles not being in the synagogues. Glad you posted this.

Gentiles in the synagogues ON THE SABBATH. Slam dunk.

 

[Scott Husted]

Acts
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: ... But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Why?

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Der Alte]

Wrong again!
(CLV) 1Co 6:9
Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,
(CLV) 1Co 6:10
nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; not revilers, not extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.

You have never proved me wrong and I'm sure you never will. You missed some. These are all unlawful offenses not part of the ceremonial law.

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:5
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
​

 

[HARK!]

So much for Gentiles not being in the synagogues. Glad you posted this.

Gentiles in the synagogues ON THE SABBATH. Slam dunk.

Which poses the next logical question... Why were the gentiles in the synagogues every Shabbat, listening to the Torah being read; if the Torah had been abolished?

Goes back to Abraham. Faith precedes obedience to YHWH's Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

 

[HARK!]

You have never proved me wrong and I'm sure you never will.

Be honest with yourself. Yes I did. It's there for all to see. You can't change your argument now to retroactively defend your failed position.

These are all unlawful offenses not part of the ceremonial law.

Drinking the blood of goat demons has everything to do with ceremonial law. Those ceremonial acts were at the foundation of your original argument. Are you arguing with yourself now? Your next statement leaves no question:

nor unclean person

Sounds ritualistic to me!

You're not arguing with me. You're arguing with Yahshua:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

 

[Der Alte]

Be honest with yourself. Yes I did. It's there for all to see. You can't change your argument now to retroactively defend your failed position.

You have not proved this. Here or anywhere else.

Drinking the blood of goat demons has everything to do with ceremonial law. Those ceremonial acts were at the foundation of your original argument. Are you arguing with yourself now? Your next statement leaves no question:

Please show me where Acts 15 says anything about "goat demons? Blood can transmit diseases. Try to pay attention here I said the offenses Paul listed were not part of the ceremonial law.

Sounds ritualistic to me!

Unclean person is a health issue not ceremony. A person with a sore which has a discharge might infect someone else. A person with leprosy might infect someone else.

You're not arguing with me. You're arguing with Yahshua:

Nope, I'm arguing with someone who does not know what he is talking about. The name Jeshua in Hebrew ישׁוע/Yeshua occurs thirty times in the OT. Both Jeshua and Joshua are transliterated Ἰησοῦς/Iesous in the 225 BC LXX

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall

.

What is your point? The law still exists and anyone who wants to can follow them. Jesus said cme to me all who are wearky and I will give you Shabbat. Jesus is the Passover lamb so I don't observe a yearly Passover. Jesus is the first fruits so I don't observe an annual ceremony. etc.

 

[Der Alte]

Which poses the next logical question... Why were the gentiles in the synagogues every Shabbat, listening to the Torah being read; if the Torah had been abolished?...

Uncircumcised gentiles were not in the synagogues every Sabbath. The persecution that Paul was a a part of never ceased.

Matthew 10:17-18
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Matthew 23:34
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mark 13:9
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.​

 

[Dkh587]

Which poses the next logical question... Why were the gentiles in the synagogues every Shabbat, listening to the Torah being read; if the Torah had been abolished?

Goes back to Abraham. Faith precedes obedience to YHWH's Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Maybe @Der Alter can explain why, since he persists on peddling his error that you have shown.

Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

I find it interesting that they weren’t begging for him to come to their church on Sunday. Wonder why?

 

[HARK!]

Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Good one! I'll add it to my list for those who reject the truth. Thanks!

 

[HARK!]

I find it interesting that they weren’t begging for him to come to their church on Sunday. Wonder why?

Maybe the sun worshipers were using the building on that day.

 

[Der Alte]

Maybe @Der Alter can explain why, since he persists on peddling his error that you have shown.
Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
I find it interesting that they weren’t begging for him to come to their church on Sunday. Wonder why?

I think I posted about 4 verses/passages where Jesus said Christian would be persecuted and even killed and you got one verse that does not say what you think it does. Your argument makes Jesus a liar. So you can peddle your false judaizing.
If gentile Christians were in the synagogue why would they ask Paul to preach separately to them after the Jews left? You stopped reading too soon.

Acts of the apostles 13:44-45
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.​

So the kicked Paul and Barnabas, both Jews, out of the city but welcomed uncircumcised gentile Christians in their synagogues? I don't think so.

 

[HARK!]

You have not proved this. Here or anywhere else.

(CLV) Ac 18:4
Now he argued in the synagogue on every sabbath and persuaded both Jews and Greeks

(CLV) Ac 18:4
Now he argued in the synagogue on every sabbath and persuaded both Jews and Greeks

Please show me where Acts 15 says anything about "goat demons?

James was referencing Leviticus 17 in reference to the ger toshav. This was covered in post 392.

A ger toshav is a gentile who accepts the authority of the Torah and the rabbis upon himself, but specifically as applied to gentiles. The term ger toshav may be used in a formal or informal sense.

In the formal sense, a ger toshav is a gentile who officially accepts the seven Noahide Laws as binding upon himself in the presence of a beth din (Jewish rabbinical court). In the Talmudic discussion regarding the ger toshav, there are two other, differing minority opinions (Avodah Zarah, 64b) as to what the ger toshav accepts upon himself:[6][7]

1. To abstain from idolatrous practices of any kind (detailed in Exodus 20:2–4, Deut 5:6–8).[2]
2. To uphold all the 613 commandments in rabbinical enumeration,[2] except for the prohibition against eating kosher animals that died by means other than ritual slaughter, or possibly[6] (Meiri) any prohibition not involving kareth.

The accepted legal definition is the majority opinion that the ger toshav must accept the seven Noahide Laws before a rabbinical court of three.[2][6] Such a ger toshav receives certain legal protections and privileges from the community, the rules regarding Jewish-Gentile relations are modified, and there is a Biblical obligation to render him aid when in need. The restrictions on having a gentile do work for a Jew on the Sabbath are also stricter when the gentile is a ger toshav.[8]

In the informal sense, a ger toshav is one who accepts the Noahide Laws on his own, or alternatively, simply rejects idolatry[2][6] (the latter issue is in particular brought up regarding Muslims.)[6] More formally, a gentile who accepts the Seven Mitzvot, although not before a beth din, is known as chasid umot ha'olam, which means "Pious People of the World."[9] There is discussion among the halakhic authorities as to which of the rules regarding a ger toshav would apply to the informal case.[2][8]

The procedure has been discontinued since the cessation of the year of Jubilee, and hence, there are no formal gerim toshvim (plural) extant today. However, it can be argued that a great deal are "informal" ones,[6] especially since it is possible to be a chasid umot ha'olam even when the Jubilee Year is not observed.[10]

ger toshav - Yahoo Search Results

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.



Leviticus 17
7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

 

[Der Alte]

...The accepted legal definition is the majority opinion that the ger toshav must accept the seven Noahide Laws before a rabbinical court of three.[2][6] ...
(CLV) Ac 15:21
For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

Were there rabbinical courts in the hinterlands where Paul preached to make ger toshav? If they were ger toshav they were technically Jews NOT Christians. I guess Jesus was lying about Christians being thrown out of the synagogues and killed.
The requirement for gentiles Christians was 4 specific things and only 4 specific things.
Only gentiles needed specific instructions not Jews for they had Torah being read on every Sabbath.

Act 15:5
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, [keep the law vs. 5] which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:19-20
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:24
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 21:24-25
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, [keep the law vs. 24] save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.​

Not once in any of the time the 4 requirements for gentiles is given is there a commandment to attend synagogues and learn Torah. Twice it is written that they gave no commandment to keep the law. vs. 15;24, 21:25.

 

[HARK!]

Were there rabbinical courts in the hinterlands where Paul preached to make ger toshav? If they were ger toshav they were technically Jews NOT Christians. I guess Jesus was lying about Christians being thrown out of the synagogues and killed.

Poor guess. Try again.

 

[HARK!]

The requirement for gentiles Christians

Is this a typo; or is it an oxymoron?

 

[HARK!]

Only gentiles needed specific instructions not Jews for they had Torah being read on every Sabbath

Gentiles who were interested in being grafted into Israel were given four basic instructions to begin learning Torah. This wasn't a license to reject the message of Yahshua's entire ministry. It was a starting point to even share table fellowship with believers.

 

[Der Alte]

Gentiles who were interested in being grafted into Israel were given four basic instructions to begin learning Torah. This wasn't a license to reject the message of Yahshua's entire ministry. It was a starting point to even share table fellowship with believers.

Nonsense none of the NT writers were proselytizing gentiles to become Jews, they were proselytizing Christians. There is not one single command anywhere in the NT commanding gentiles Christians to join synagogues and become Jews. The NT letters were addressed to churches in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Colossae Thessalonia etc. not one letter to a synagogue. The churches were told to appoint pastors, elders, and deacons not rabbis and cantors. From Romans thru Revelation church is mentioned 114 times, synagogue 25.

Gal 5:1-6
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.​

 

[Dkh587]

I think I posted about 4 verses/passages where Jesus said Christian would be persecuted and even killed and you got one verse that does not say what you think it does. Your argument makes Jesus a liar. So you can peddle your false judaizing.
If gentile Christians were in the synagogue why would they ask Paul to preach separately to them after the Jews left? You stopped reading too soon.

Acts of the apostles 13:44-45
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.​

So the kicked Paul and Barnabas, both Jews, out of the city but welcomed uncircumcised gentile Christians in their synagogues? I don't think so.

Why would the Gentiles ask Paul to come back and preach again, if they weren’t in the synagogues to hear it preached the first time?

were they peeking in a window and listening in?

Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

It’s not disputable that Gentiles were in the synagogues.