Was Ceremonial Law Abolished?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

One of us misunderstands Paul

Look in the mirror...

 

[not under law]

Can you say that you even know him?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

Lets go back to rom ch 7. You believe Paul the Christian was sold as a slave to breaking God's laws/sin, he could not do the good he wanted to do but the evil he did not want to do this he kept on doing. He was sins slave and sin was his master. How does verse 25 help you. You sin in the flesh. So I imagine you do not believe Paul knew God either

 

[HARK!]

Why are you quoting scripture to me?

For your benefit.

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

 

[not under law]

For your benefit.

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

continue on to verse29

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. Gal2:3&4

Again, you post scripture as if it somehow proves your point...and it doesn't because you do not understand it in context

 

[not under law]

Look in the mirror...

Again, you post scripture as if it somehow proves your point...and it doesn't because you do not understand it in context

Really?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Really?

Yes

 

[not under law]

Yes

why are sinfull passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5

 

[Dkh587]

Circumcision is not oral law

The circumcision being referenced is converting over to Judaism, and seeking righteousness through their teachings... it’s not a blanket statement warning against circumcision according to what God commanded Abraham. He uses the word circumcision to refer to the process of converting over, and joining their religion.

The context of letter to Galatians is disputing Judaizers trying to persuade the Galatians to convert to their religion(the one Paul left)... they taught righteousness through adherence to their teachings and rituals(works of the law).

Righteousness is through faith & obeying the Law of Moses, not obeying manmade commandments.

 

[HARK!]

Here is where we differ about the context. Verse 25 is the culmination of keeping the law with a sinful flesh that had been the only way it was done for centuries since Moses, but before Christ.

You haven't grasped yet that Jesus came to take us out of our sinful flesh nature and change it to a divine nature that keeps the law naturally, and not against our nature, without the struggle of Romans 7. That is becoming born again of the Spirit.

With the divine nature that loves righteousness, we are naturally moral and loving to our fellow human beings. We do what God does because we are children of God. When we absolutely know who we are in Christ with Him a part of us, we can heal the sick, hear Him tell us His will, and have sweet communion with Him moment by moment. And we are not bogged down with constantly fighting temptations, because like Christ they are not in our desire to commit anyway. All we want to do for the rest of our days is keep growing more and more like Christ.

I know we differ on what our obedience to Christ means. You believe in keeping all the feasts, and that is fine, and you honor God by doing so. I just believe that in Christ, He is all I need. And I honor God in that way. And He accepts me as a child of God, because He has given me His Own Spirit.

You and I are very close to agreement. If YHWH dwells within us, we should see abundant fruit.

However, I believe that Paul was strong in his faith; yet there was still spiritual war.

Here is what scripture says about Yahshua himself:

(CLV) Hb 4:15
For we have not a Chief Priest not able to sympathize with our infirmities, but One Who has been tried in all respects like us, apart from sin.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

... it’s not a blanket statement warning against circumcision according to what God commanded Abraham.

The context of letter to Galatians is disputing Judaizers trying to persuade the Galatians to convert to their religion(the one Paul left)... they taught righteousness through adherence to their teachings and rituals(works of the law).

Righteousness is through faith & obeying the Law of Moses, not obeying manmade commandments.

Well yes, that was my point Akhi! I just meant that circumcision was in the Torah, not originally from the oral law of the Pharisees...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

why are sinfull passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5

Again, you really do no understand any of this...

 

[martymonster]

Then why will they be practiced in the Kingdom to come.

By the way, the fall feasts have not been fulfilled. These are standing appointments with YHWH, forever, as it is written.

Give me an example of the feasts you think haven't been fulfilled.

 

[CharismaticLady]

However, I believe that Paul was strong in his faith; yet there was still spiritual war.

See, I don't believe Paul still had a spiritual war like those in Romans 7. In Romans 8:2 he says he is made free of the law of sin and death; IOW a spiritual war.

One problem I see with many who relate themselves to the struggle of Romans 7 is there is a chapter break before they see that Romans 8:2 is freedom from the struggle. Why? Because there is no struggle when a person has been born again of the Spirit. They are still in the flesh, and without the Spirit of Christ in them resolving this struggle with the carnal flesh, they do not belong to Christ.

 

[not under law]

Again, you post scripture as if it somehow proves your point...and it doesn't because you do not understand it in context

Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Gal6:12
Well I suppose you make context whatever you want

 

[HARK!]

Really?

Yes

 

[SkyWriting]

(CLV) Ja 2:21
Abraham, our father, was he not justified by works when offering up his son Isaac on the altar?

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Yes, faith >>>>> might result in good works.
But we all know that's a one way street.
A brick mason building a cathedral does not create a saved Christian.
My dad is an example.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Gal6:12
Well I suppose you make context whatever you want

I am circumcised. I believe in Yeshua. Do you understand now what he was saying?

 

[not under law]

Again, you really do no understand any of this...

Then explain it to me, as you believe you understand Paul and I do not. When specifically was he speaking of in the following. How was sin able through Paul's knowledge of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him. Why did the man mentioned become exceedingly sinfull through knowing that commandment:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion
by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom7:7-13

And why were sinfull passions aroused in the person mentioned through their knowledge of the ten commandments?

 

[not under law]

I am circumcised. I believe in Yeshua. Do you understand now what he was saying?

I believe you are blinded by your preconceived ideas.