The sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25: The Progressive Dispensationalist view

[Guojing]

What are you talking about? I have done that. But, you clearly misunderstand what I'm saying a lot of the time, as evidenced by your responses. Such as you seeing the word "also" in one of my responses and drawing all kinds of conclusions just from that which did not reflect what I was saying at all. That gets tiresome after awhile. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Participating in Christian forums, with strangers on the Internet, to me, is a very good way of developing patience as a fruit. That is my view so I won't use exasperating remarks like "this gets tiresome".

If you feel tiresome, you are free to stop commenting or participating. There is no need to announce that publicly as a form of virtue signaling.

To me, its like telling people, "I am putting you on ignore". I am always amused when I see people in Christian forum pages needing to virtue signal like that. =)

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Participating in Christian forums, with strangers on the Internet, to me, is a very good way of developing patience as a fruit. That is my view so I won't use exasperating remarks like "this gets tiresome".

Well, congratulations on having endless patience then. Pat yourself on the back.

If you feel tiresome, you are free to stop commenting or participating.

Of course. And that is why I'm not going to continue talking to you after this.

There is no need to announce that publicly as a form of virtue signaling.

To me, its like telling people, "I am putting you on ignore". I am always amused when I see people in Christian forum pages needing to virtue signal like that. =)

You are extremely sensitive and easily offended and that isn't my fault. I have no interest in dealing with that any longer. Take care.

 

[Guojing]

Of course. I did not say otherwise. This seems hopeless. If you can't even understand what I'm saying, then what is the point?

Back to this point, I quoted your paragraph when you stated

It seems to me that you think if only I could understand what you believe and why, then I would agree with you, but that's just not the case. Maybe you don't actually think that, but I'm just saying it seems that way.

I quoted literally what you said, and explain why what you said was wrong, that your conclusion (I would agree with you), doesn't follow from your premise (if only I could understand what you believe and why).

You then reverse and claim "Of course. I did not say otherwise". Do you understand what a logical argument is?

 

[Marilyn C]

Do you understand what all whose names are not written in the book of life being judged at the same time means? You have some whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire before the GWT judgment, do you not? You have Matthew 25:41 being fulfilled 1,000+ years before Revelation 20:15, right? Yet, scripture indicates that all of the wicked will be judged and condemned at the same time (John 5:28-29, Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50, Matthew 25:31-46, Acts 17:31, Rev 20:15).

Why do you assume that the `goats` are put into the lake of fire immediately. Many scriptures have spaces of years even in one sentence. eg. Isa. 61: 2, and Luke 4: 18 & 19)

 

[Marilyn C]

Do you understand what all whose names are not written in the book of life being judged at the same time means? You have some whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire before the GWT judgment, do you not? You have Matthew 25:41 being fulfilled 1,000+ years before Revelation 20:15, right? Yet, scripture indicates that all of the wicked will be judged and condemned at the same time (John 5:28-29, Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50, Matthew 25:31-46, Acts 17:31, Rev 20:15).

Hi SJ,

You may like to consider these points -

First I agree that Jesus will be the judge of all, and at the GWT we read of those not in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire.

In John 5: 28 & 29 we read how ALL WHO ARE IN THE GRAVES come forth to judgment. (GWT)
In Rev. 20: 15 we also read about ALL WHO ARE IN THE GRAVES come forth to judgment. (GWT)

However -

In Matt. 13: 36 - 43 and 47 - 50 we read of the angels gathering out of the (millennial) rule of the Lord those that are lawless.
This is shown in Matt. 24: 40 & 41, (as in the days of Noah those taken went in the flood).
In Matt. 25: 31 - 46 we see the Lord gathering the nations that are left on the earth after the great trib, and He judges then as to how they looked after His brethren, (the Jews).

All these are NOT IN THE GRAVES but are judged (as to whether fit for the kingdom rule of the Lord in the millennium) on the earth while they are alive. They die and go to their graves till they are brought forth for final judgment at the GWT.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Hi SJ,

You may like to consider these points -

First I agree that Jesus will be the judge of all, and at the GWT we read of those not in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire.

In John 5: 28 & 29 we read how ALL WHO ARE IN THE GRAVES come forth to judgment. (GWT)
In Rev. 20: 15 we also read about ALL WHO ARE IN THE GRAVES come forth to judgment. (GWT)

However -

In Matt. 13: 36 - 43 and 47 - 50 we read of the angels gathering out of the (millennial) rule of the Lord those that are lawless.
This is shown in Matt. 24: 40 & 41, (as in the days of Noah those taken went in the flood).
In Matt. 25: 31 - 46 we see the Lord gathering the nations that are left on the earth after the great trib, and He judges then as to how they looked after His brethren, (the Jews).

All these are NOT IN THE GRAVES but are judged (as to whether fit for the kingdom rule of the Lord in the millennium) on the earth while they are alive. They die and go to their graves till they are brought forth for final judgment at the GWT.

Hi Marilyn. I've been away from this forum for awhile, so I didn't see this until now.

First of all, I need to correct your understanding of who Jesus's brethren are. They are not "the Jews" (though there are Jews among His brethren - just not all of them, which I will explain).

I'm sure you understand that the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus railed against and called hypocrites (and other things) in Matthew 23 were Jews. Surely, you would not claim that Jews like them are Jesus's brethren? I would certainly hope not. Here is a description of those who Jesus considered to be His brethren (we need to interpret scripture with scripture):

Luke 8:20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. 21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So, His brethren are all those who belong to Him, which includes Jew and Gentile believers.

The other thing I want to address is you saying that Matthew 25:31-46 has something to do with judging whether living people on the earth are "fit for the kingdom rule of the Lord in the millennium". We can see in Matthew 25:34 and Matthew 25:46 that the sheep (the righteous) inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" at that time. In your view Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about mortal people inheriting the kingdom of God for a thousand years.

How does inheriting "ETERNAL life" equate to inheriting a kingdom for a thousand years? That does not make sense.

Also, how can mortal human beings inherit the kingdom of God in light of what Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Paul indicated that people with mortal, corruptible flesh and blood (mortal bodies) cannot inherit the kingdom of God. They must be changed to have immortal bodies like he talks about immediately after 1 Cor 15:50. So, the sheep/righteous who inherit the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:31-46 cannot possibly be mortal human beings since that would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:50. We cannot interpret one verse or passage in such a way that contradicts another verse or passage of scripture. I believe many people are not careful enough about avoiding that.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Why do you assume that the `goats` are put into the lake of fire immediately. Many scriptures have spaces of years even in one sentence. eg. Isa. 61: 2, and Luke 4: 18 & 19)

Show me any indication at all anywhere in Matthew 25:31-46 that allows for the possibility of the goats being cast into the lake of fire long after they are gathered before the throne when Christ comes? Anything. If you can.

Also, please explain to me why the goats would be gathered before the throne to be judged when He comes only to not actually be judged until 1,000+ years later. Please explain how that makes any sense at all. This scenario has the goats just standing there for 1,000+ years before the throne waiting to be judged. Do you think it is reasonable to believe such a thing? I surely don't.

 

[keras]

Paul indicated that people with mortal, corruptible flesh and blood (mortal bodies) cannot inherit the kingdom of God. They must be changed to have immortal bodies like he talks about immediately after 1 Cor 15:50. So, the sheep/righteous who inherit the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:31-46 cannot possibly be mortal human beings since that would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:50. We cannot interpret one verse or passage in such a way that contradicts another verse or passage of scripture. I believe many people are not careful enough about avoiding that.

Where you and many others make a mistake is in thinking the Prophecy of Paul's in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, happens at the Return of Jesus.
That Prophecy must be fulfilled after the Millennium, proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

Of course as an AMill believer, you conflate those events. So until AMill believers realize their error, they wrongly think that Immortality comes at the Return. Isaiah 65:20 shows there are mortals in the Millennium.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn. I've been away from this forum for awhile, so I didn't see this until now.

First of all, I need to correct your understanding of who Jesus's brethren are. They are not "the Jews" (though there are Jews among His brethren - just not all of them, which I will explain).

I'm sure you understand that the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus railed against and called hypocrites (and other things) in Matthew 23 were Jews. Surely, you would not claim that Jews like them are Jesus's brethren? I would certainly hope not. Here is a description of those who Jesus considered to be His brethren (we need to interpret scripture with scripture):

Luke 8:20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. 21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So, His brethren are all those who belong to Him, which includes Jew and Gentile believers.

The other thing I want to address is you saying that Matthew 25:31-46 has something to do with judging whether living people on the earth are "fit for the kingdom rule of the Lord in the millennium". We can see in Matthew 25:34 and Matthew 25:46 that the sheep (the righteous) inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" at that time. In your view Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about mortal people inheriting the kingdom of God for a thousand years.

How does inheriting "ETERNAL life" equate to inheriting a kingdom for a thousand years? That does not make sense.

Also, how can mortal human beings inherit the kingdom of God in light of what Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Paul indicated that people with mortal, corruptible flesh and blood (mortal bodies) cannot inherit the kingdom of God. They must be changed to have immortal bodies like he talks about immediately after 1 Cor 15:50. So, the sheep/righteous who inherit the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:31-46 cannot possibly be mortal human beings since that would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:50. We cannot interpret one verse or passage in such a way that contradicts another verse or passage of scripture. I believe many people are not careful enough about avoiding that.

Hi SJ,

Lots of good questions that make us look further into God`s word for clarification. Thank you for asking.

1. Brethren. The Body of Christ revelation was not known while Jesus was on earth. Thus, He was not referring to them as His brethren. See in Malachi where the Lord is talking to Israel, (Mal. 1: 1) and there are those who feared the Lord and meditated on His name. (Mal. 3: 16) The Lord will purify them, (Mal. 3: 2 & 3 and Zech. 13: 8 also, Zech. 12: 7 - 10).

2. The `sheep & goats` nations. When Jesus was manifest on earth He came to (among other things) confirm the promises made to Israel, (Rom. 15: 8) And part of those promises was that Israel would rule the nations of the world under the Lord. This is the Lord`s rule in the millennium.

Those of the nations (sheep) that acted `righteously,` were given entrance into that rule in the world and learnt more of the ways of the Lord and worshipped the King. (Mic. 4: 1 - 3) They would eventually go on to the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

Those of the `goat` nations did not act righteously and were thus cast out.

These judgments are NOT the GWT where ALL the dead are brought to life and judged. The Matt. 25 judgments are for the nations on the earth after the trib.

3. That is right that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. And the kingdom/rule of God is over all from the highest to the lowest. That will be the New Heavens and New Earth.

The kingdom rule of the heaven is a different time, it is the millennium. It is the Lord`s rule of heaven through Israel over the earth.

`And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed.` (Dan. 2: 44)

`Then the kingdom (rule) and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.` (Dan. 7: 27)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Show me any indication at all anywhere in Matthew 25:31-46 that allows for the possibility of the goats being cast into the lake of fire long after they are gathered before the throne when Christ comes? Anything. If you can.

Also, please explain to me why the goats would be gathered before the throne to be judged when He comes only to not actually be judged until 1,000+ years later. Please explain how that makes any sense at all. This scenario has the goats just standing there for 1,000+ years before the throne waiting to be judged. Do you think it is reasonable to believe such a thing? I surely don't.

`Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was no place for them. And I saw the dead small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. And another book was opened which is the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged each one according to his works. (Rev. 20: 11 - 13)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them as one from the other, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats. ` (Matt. 25: 31 & 32)

Quite a different picture there! And the `goats,` will be part of the `dead,` at the GWT.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Well, there is no such thing as an "afterlife" in a torment of Hell for the unsaved dead "now" waiting for judgment. THey haven't stood for judgment yet! The goats, who have been dead, haven't been raised up from silence (Psalms 115:17-18) and the books haven't been opened yet! The graves haven't been opened yet to bring up the dead from the sea and earth to stand before the White Throne and receive according to their works whether good or bad yet! Thus to claim that the dead are waiting in hell tormented for their sins "already" (past tense) is distinctly "UNBIBLICAL." Because many people never have understood Christ's parables concerning Hell and Judgment:

Revelation 20:11-13

• "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
• And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
• And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Here's the News. The dead are raised to stand before the open books and be judged out of them. It hasn't happened yet! And yes, it includes the goats! Unorthodox? No, it is very orthodox if we mean by that conforming to "established doctrines from the scriptures." But a rose called by any other name besides "Biblical," would still smell as sweet.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. So, somehow I'm assuming things with my interpretation but you're not assuming anything with yours. I see. LOL.

What is there to interpret? Satan, the beast, and the FP show up at Armageddon. The beast and FP are cast into the LOF. Satan is bound in the pit for a thousand years. No interpretation is necessary.

Your interpretation wants me to assume the chapters are not chronological, and literally don't follow each other. That goes against the plain reading of the book.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Where you and many others make a mistake is in thinking the Prophecy of Paul's in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, happens at the Return of Jesus.
That Prophecy must be fulfilled after the Millennium, proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

As I've told you many times when this has come up, I also believe that 1 Cor 15:50-56 occurs after the thousand years. The difference in our views is not when that prophecy occurs in relation to the thousand years. The difference is that I believe that occurs after the thousand years when Jesus returns and you believe it occurs 1,000+ years after He returns.

Of course as an AMill believer, you conflate those events. So until AMill believers realize their error, they wrongly think that Immortality comes at the Return. Isaiah 65:20 shows there are mortals in the Millennium.

Isaiah 65:20 shows no such thing unless you believe there will be no crying or mourning during the Millennium (Isaiah 65:19), which would be a ridiculous thing to believe. You are interpreting Isaiah 65:20 in such a way that makes nonsense out of Isaiah 65:19 and also in a way that contradicts Revelation 21:1-4. Do you care about that? Apparently not.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

`Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was no place for them. And I saw the dead small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. And another book was opened which is the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged each one according to his works. (Rev. 20: 11 - 13)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them as one from the other, as a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats. ` (Matt. 25: 31 & 32)

Quite a different picture there! And the `goats,` will be part of the `dead,` at the GWT.

How is it different? Are you saying you think that Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgment of nations? It clearly is not. It's talking about all people being gathered before Him. Nations will not inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world. Individuals will. Nations will not be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". Individuals will. Just like is portrayed in Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What is there to interpret? Satan, the beast, and the FP show up at Armageddon. The beast and FP are cast into the LOF. Satan is bound in the pit for a thousand years. No interpretation is necessary.

Your interpretation wants me to assume the chapters are not chronological, and literally don't follow each other. That goes against the plain reading of the book.

Your interpretation is that the book is all chronological. That is highly debatable whether you acknowledge that or not. We know for sure that Revelation 11 and 12 are not chronological, so to conclude that the rest has to be chronological is quite a stretch.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Hi SJ,

Lots of good questions that make us look further into God`s word for clarification. Thank you for asking.

1. Brethren. The Body of Christ revelation was not known while Jesus was on earth. Thus, He was not referring to them as His brethren. See in Malachi where the Lord is talking to Israel, (Mal. 1: 1) and there are those who feared the Lord and meditated on His name. (Mal. 3: 16) The Lord will purify them, (Mal. 3: 2 & 3 and Zech. 13: 8 also, Zech. 12: 7 - 10).

You're not interpreting scripture with scripture here. Again...

Luke 8:20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. 21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus made it clear that His brethren are those who obey God's word. His brethren are His followers. That includes all of us.

2. The `sheep & goats` nations. When Jesus was manifest on earth He came to (among other things) confirm the promises made to Israel, (Rom. 15: 8) And part of those promises was that Israel would rule the nations of the world under the Lord. This is the Lord`s rule in the millennium.

Those of the nations (sheep) that acted `righteously,` were given entrance into that rule in the world and learnt more of the ways of the Lord and worshipped the King. (Mic. 4: 1 - 3) They would eventually go on to the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

The sheep will inherit the kingdom of God. But, you believe they will inherit the kingdom as mortals. That contradicts what Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

As Paul taught, people with mortal "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God", but you say they will.

Those of the `goat` nations did not act righteously and were thus cast out.

These judgments are NOT the GWT where ALL the dead are brought to life and judged. The Matt. 25 judgments are for the nations on the earth after the trib.

Where does it say that? The word "nations" is not a good translation of the Greek word "ethnos" in that verse. The word can also mean people in general, heathen or Gentiles. In this case, it is referring to people in general. All people will be judged at the same time as is taught in other passages like this:

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Jesus will return at the end of the age (Matt 24:3) and He indicated that is when the righteous will inherit "the kingdom of their Father" and the wicked will be cast into the fire, which lines up with what He taught in Matthew 25:31-46.

There is only one judgment day as we can see here:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

3. That is right that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. And the kingdom/rule of God is over all from the highest to the lowest. That will be the New Heavens and New Earth.

The kingdom rule of the heaven is a different time, it is the millennium. It is the Lord`s rule of heaven through Israel over the earth.

`And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed.` (Dan. 2: 44)

`Then the kingdom (rule) and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.` (Dan. 7: 27)

Is "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" not the kingdom of God? Of course it is. So, I see no basis for trying to say that the kingdom being inherited in Matthew 25:34 is a different kingdom than the one Paul referenced in 1 Cor 15:50.

 

[Marilyn C]

How is it different? Are you saying you think that Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgment of nations? It clearly is not. It's talking about all people being gathered before Him. Nations will not inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world. Individuals will. Nations will not be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". Individuals will. Just like is portrayed in Revelation 20:11-15.

Matt. 25: 31 - 46 is yes, a judgment of people`s of the nations. Matt. 24: 40 & 41 reveal that one is taken away, (as in the flood v 39) and one person is left on the earth to go into the millennium.

 

[Marilyn C]

You're not interpreting scripture with scripture here. Again...

Luke 8:20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. 21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus made it clear that His brethren are those who obey God's word. His brethren are His followers. That includes all of us.



Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

The sheep will inherit the kingdom of God. But, you believe they will inherit the kingdom as mortals. That contradicts what Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

As Paul taught, people with mortal "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God", but you say they will.


Where does it say that? The word "nations" is not a good translation of the Greek word "ethnos" in that verse. The word can also mean people in general, heathen or Gentiles. In this case, it is referring to people in general. All people will be judged at the same time as is taught in other passages like this:

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Jesus will return at the end of the age (Matt 24:3) and He indicated that is when the righteous will inherit "the kingdom of their Father" and the wicked will be cast into the fire, which lines up with what He taught in Matthew 25:31-46.

There is only one judgment day as we can see here:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”


Is "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" not the kingdom of God? Of course it is. So, I see no basis for trying to say that the kingdom being inherited in Matthew 25:34 is a different kingdom than the one Paul referenced in 1 Cor 15:50.

It is the `kingdom of heaven,` the rule of heaven through Israel promised to them. (Dan. 2: 44, 7: 27) That is the earthly rule of the Lord in the millennium. Matt. 24: 40 & 41 show that some will be taken away as in the flood while others will be left on the earth.

Then at the final `sorting out for all in the graves, that will be for those righteous to go into the eternal kingdom. That is the Lord judging the world, all in the graves from all time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I was listening to this podcast by the Grace Evangelical society If a Man is Saved by Faith Alone, What is Happening in Matthew 25 With the Sheep and the Goats? – Grace Evangelical Society

Now I understand why and how some Christians believe that Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.", saved there refers to only physical salvation, as in saved from dying physically during the Tribulation, and not eternal salvation.

To support that belief, they cross reference to Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

So they reason that, since the elect there, by definition, represents those who are eternally saved by God, the saved in vs 22 must therefore represent something else other than eternal salvation, allowing them to believe that it therefore must be physical.

By holding to that doctrine, they are able to reconcile the sheep and goat judgement with their core doctrine that salvation is always by faith alone without works.

If I understand their reasoning correctly, here is their argument:

Premise 1: 100% of those unfaithful believers would have physically died during the Tribulation
Premise 2: Those who face the sheep and goat judgement after the Tribulation are 100% faithful believers
Conclusion: They are therefore deemed as sheep, by definition.

This argument seems tautological, true by definition.

My question is "Who then will be the goats in that judgement? Will those unfaithful believers who physically died, be resurrected to face that judgement as well, and thus they will be those goats?"

Any comments on their reasoning?

We are dealing with metaphor here. The answer is simple: The sheep are those who have accepted the Gospel of Christ and who are trusting in Christ as their Saviour. The goats are those who have rejected the Gospel and ignored the offer of salvation through Christ.

There are only two kinds of people - those who are dead in sin and those who are dead to sin. Therefore the sheep are those who are dead to sin, and the goats are those who are dead in sin.

 

[Marilyn C]

We are dealing with metaphor here. The answer is simple: The sheep are those who have accepted the Gospel of Christ and who are trusting in Christ as their Saviour. The goats are those who have rejected the Gospel and ignored the offer of salvation through Christ.

There are only two kinds of people - those who are dead in sin and those who are dead to sin. Therefore the sheep are those who are dead to sin, and the goats are those who are dead in sin.

Hi Watchman,

The Lord is NOT talking about the Body of Christ which He doesn`t reveal to the Jews in the gospels.