Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

[Hentenza]

Paul knew well that he could not identify any specific person as being delfintivel;y numbered among the elect. In Phil 3 He even said that he had not yet attained to the ressurection but was strivng towards that end.

Paul knew exactly who the elect were. In Phillipians he addresses his letter to:

“Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, T o all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, T o all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons

bible.com

Here he is even including the overseers and deacons. Are you really going to argue that Paul was not one of the elect? Really? Your argument is total nonsense.

We think His burden is light. You speak as if it's non-existent.

I’m just quoting the holy scriptures.

““Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 11:28-30 “Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke | New American Standard Bible -

“Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke

bible.com

You dont believe scriptures? Why do you think that His yoke is not comfortable and His burden not light? Is that because of your churches teaching‘s about faith plus works? Are you good enough to attain salvation? Are you works sufficient?

And our's isn't faith plus works of the law. It's faith plus good fruit, works of grace, good works that we were created in Chrsit Jesus to do, that God prepared in advance, works that are done not out of a sense of ovbligation but out of the love that's been poured into our hearts Rom 5:5. "...faith working though love" Gal 5:6

Yours is indeed faith plus works. The most famous verse in scripture will prove your church completely wrong.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16-18 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but | New American Standard Bible - NASB

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but

bible.com

I don’t see works here. Do you?

Depends on what you mean. Often love can be a hard chocie, involving self-sacrifice. And God's after more than just natural love, of course, but after a love that only he can produce in us.
"If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:46-48

And we shall be perfect. Just not yet. As I stated Glorification does not happen until our eternal state.

Getting back to the last part of Matt 5 quoted above: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Thats not happening until our eternal state. Hopefully you know this but you keep bringing this up.

If we're not on that road, that Way, that "jourrney to perfection" as it's been called; if we aren't closer to perfection, perfection in love to put it best, by virtue of our encounter and union with God than we were say, 5 or 10 years ago, then we should really question whether or not we're one of His.

Again, you deflected my post. Address my post instead of posting over what I wrote.

 

[fhansen]

Here he is even including the overseers and deacons. Are you really going to argue that Paul was not one of the elect? Really? Your argument is total nonsense.

I’ll argue that Paul had enough humility to not be rashly over-confident. That's the Christian way. We see ourselves as pilgrims, sojourners, but not quite yet there,

You dont believe scriptures? Why do you think that His yoke is not comfortable and His burden not light?

You didn't bother to read what you're supposedly responding to here?

I don’t see works here. Do you?

There's a reason that faith means salvation and no condemantion, because it means we've moved from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. Not some pretense at light but we become righteous ourselves:

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4

How does this happen?
"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

Thats not happening until our eternal state. Hopefully you know this but you keep bringing this up.

And we shall be perfect. Just not yet. As I stated Glorification does not happen until our eternal state.

It begins in the here and now for Christians. Otherwise we remain in our sins and that means that sin such as murder, theft, lying, idolatry, etc won't keep us out of heaven as Scripture says it will.

Again, you deflected my post. Address my post instead of posting over what I wrote.

Nah, I just reread it and posted the exchange below. The answer was fine:

Do you honestly think that the Paul and the saints who are at Ephesus, who were chosen and already received their inheritance, are going to loose their faith? Do you think that even the saints who are at Ephesus are perfect, love perfectly, forgive perfectly? Do you think that even those with saving faith do not still sin? No one, and I mean no one, in this world, even those with saving faith, are perfect.

Getting back to the last part of Matt 5 quoted above: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

If we're not on that road, that Way, that "jourrney to perfection" as it's been called; if we aren't closer to perfection, perfection in love to put it best, by virtue of our encounter and union with God than we were say, 5 or 10 years ago, then we should really question whether or not we're one of His.

 

[Hentenza]

I’ll argue that Paul had enough humility not be rashly over-confident.

But your argument has no basis. You are not addressing what I posted. I showed you FROM scripture where Paul knew exactly who the elect are.

You didn't bother to read what you're supposedly responding to here?

what? Did you address the scripture?

There's a reason that faith means salvation and no condemantion, because it means we've moved from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. Not some pretense at light but we become righteous ourselves:

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4

How does this happen?
"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

Once again you did not addressed the scripture that I posted. We can talk over each other all day. The basic fact is that it appears that you are unable to address my post.

Romans 8-1-4 begins with therefore so what came before? Hint: the conflict of serving two natures. We do not become righteous by ourselves. If we did then why did Jesus have to die?

Romans 8:12-14. But you just told me that we become righteous ourselves. How is your interpretation consistent with the earlier verses? How can there be no condemnation in verse 1 and then be condemnation in verse 12-14? Are you sure you want to make this argument?

It begins in the here and now for Christians. Otherwise we remain in our sins and that means that sin such as murder, theft, lying, idolatry, etc won't keep us out of heaven as Scripture says it will.

Christ died for our sins brother. His sacrifice IS sufficient. We are already justified, declared righteous. It began at the moment that God stirred our hearts and we chose Him. You will lI’ve a life of stress never knowing if you are good enough to be saved. I’ll pray for you that you indeed see the light.

 

[fhansen]

But your argument has no basis. You are not addressing what I posted. I showed you FROM scripture where Paul knew exactly who the elect are.

No he didn’t. He knows they’re followers of Christ and addresses them as such. It's not some wooden absolute knowledge, as if none could ever fall away. God, alone knows with perfect certainty who are His and who are not.

what? Did you address the scripture?

Yes, go back and read it.

Romans 8-1-4 begins with therefore so what came before? Hint: the conflict of serving two natures. We do not become righteous by ourselves. If we did then why did Jesus have to die?

Who said we become righteous by ourselves? Christ is the answer in Rom 7:25 because through Him I'm empowered to overcome the sin that condemns me to death.

Romans 8:12-14. But you just told me that we become righteous ourselves.

When, where? We don’t become righteous by ourselves, but only by virtue of union with God, by the power of the Holy Spirit. That vital union is the primary difference between the old and new covenants. 8:12-14 follow naturally from 8:1-4. We’re not condemned because we’re empowered to overcome the sin that earns us death, the righteous requirement of the law now being met in us.

Christ died for our sins brother. His sacrifice IS sufficient. We are already justified, declared righteous.

No, we we're more than aquitted sinners; we were made righteous, given the "gift of righteousness".
"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

Now we work our our salvation with that grace. God's not a fool-and He wants more from, and, more importantly, more for us, than we know.
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." Gal 6:7-8

Truth be known, you've swallowed a novel gospel, a fair bit skewed, with, again, little in common with the early fathers or early church teachings.