Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

[fhansen]

Like the Pastor Peter who denied Christ three times. . .human emotion overcoming him?

He could've remained in denial, or not. We can remain in our sins, or not.

 

[Clare73]

He could've remained in denial, or not. We can remain in our sins, or not.

And this relates to those pastors' sin, how?

 

[fhansen]

And this relates to those pastors' sin, how?

Persistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom as it reveals and consitutes a heart turned away from God and love regardless of any talk to the contrary. And that pastor claimed to be in close contact with the HS. And perhaps he was...previously. And...perhaps he repented and returned to God later.

 

[fhansen]

Which does not address the "duplicitousness" of God with Pharaoh; i.e., commanding him to obey and willing him not to obey.

It would be duplicitous for God to command Adam to obey while wanting him to disobey. It would be duplicitous for God to command Pharaoh to let His people go while not wanting His people to be let go. God wanted His people to be let go, as He commanded. Otherwise His plan of salvation would not come to fruition, of course. We don't know for certain why God hardened Pharaoh's heart-maybe only to test the Jews a bit more.

 

[Clare73]

Persistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom as it reveals and consitutes a heart turned away from God and love regardless of any talk to the contrary. And that pastor claimed to be in close contact with the HS. And perhaps he was...previously. And...perhaps he repented and returned to God later.

I'm not seeing much difference between Peter and the pastor.

 

[fhansen]

And Peter's persistence in denial would have the same results. . .perhaps he repented and turned to God.

He obviously had a change of of heart.

 

[Clare73]

It would be duplicitous for God to command Adam to obey while wanting him to disobey. It would be duplicitous for God to command Pharaoh to let His people go while not wanting His people to be let go. God wanted His people to be let go, as He commanded.

And yet God prevented Pharaoh from doing what God had commanded.

Sorry, intellectual honesty cannot avoid here what you call "duplicitous."

 

[Clare73]

He obviously had a change of of heart.

As the pastor could have. . .

 

[Clare73]

Persistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom

As Peter's sin would have. . .

as it reveals and consitutes a heart turned away from God and love regardless of any talk to the contrary. And that pastor claimed to be in close contact with the HS. And perhaps he was...previously. And...perhaps he repented and returned to God later.

 

[fhansen]

As the pastor could have. . .

And so?? The point is that he could have... and he could not have.

" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:9-10

 

[Hentenza]

Just me. I still strugge with sin IOW, And sin is to continue to be prideful, covetous, etc, in some way or another, still challenged to value or be attracted to lesser, created things above God at times.

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

bible.com

All of us struggle with sin.

This really means that I'm not perfected in love which means that the bond between myself and God is not as sure or complete as it could and should be. This doesn't mean that I'm not His, it only means the door is open.

No one is perfected in this life. But you have already been justified.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we

bible.com

“But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your | New American Standard Bible - NA

But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your

bible.com

Do you believe in your heart that God raised our Lord from the dead? If you do then what does the verses say?

Meanwhile I do the best I can with the gifts He's given me to strive to do His will and grow nearer to Him. I know He's perfectly trustworthy and true and has only my highest interest at heart, ever-seeking to draw and keep me nearer but I'm the potentially weak link in the relationship. And this is why, for example, we're told to 'work out our salvation', or to 'make our calling and election sure'.

You can never do your best. You already told me at the beginning of your post that you still sin. You will continue to sin (albeit not live in sin) until you are perfected in the next state. As you can see you can not and will not be good enough to save yourself by your works. You and me are getting better as we work out our sanctification not our salvation. We work from salvation because we will never be good enough to work for salvation. Enter Jesus rest.

 

[Clare73]

And so?? The point is that he could have... and he could not have.

" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:9-10

Add so the pastor, being no different than Peter in that regard ( for both the pastor and Peter, persistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom) is not a call-out.

 

[fhansen]

Which makes the pastor no different than Peter in that regard; i.e., for both the pastor and Peter, persistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom

Yep

 

[Clare73]

Yep

So the pastor is not a call-out anymore than Peter is a call-out regarding the fact that resistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom.

 

[fhansen]

No one is perfected in this life. But you have already been justified.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

You have to understand what justification means. Again, it's not some get-out-of-hell-free-card as long as I recite some truths, perhaps passing a divine litmus test of professed beliefs. Justification involves the repentance you've cited above. It's a turning away from sin/the world and a turning to God and His values. If justification only means forgiveness of sin, then why do I even need to confess and be purifed of unrighteousness? Grace means God's life in us as we're now directly connected to the Vine. It's a life, a state of being, not just a legal status. If we turn away from that life, from that grace, from that "gift of righteousness", from God the Spirit indwelling us, then we've failed to remain in Him, and that metanoia, that change of heart/mind, must take place again with repentance forthcoming.

Justifcation is the making just/righteous of the ungodly, the unjust. Then we must continue to walk in that justice, that righteousness, possible only by virtue of being with Him. That "with Him" is the difference. "Apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). If I return to the flesh, if I become engaged in wanton, persistent grave sin, I'm not with Him.

 

[fhansen]

So the pastor is not a call-out anymore than Peter is a call-out regarding the fact that resistence in such sin, as Scripture tells us, results in death, non-inheritance of the kingdom.

So what's the point? Some will abandon their faith, abandon God, made apparent by how they live their lives, and stay that way, and some will not.

 

[Clare73]

So what's the point? Some will abandon their faith, abandon God, made apparent by how they live their lives, and stay that way, and some will not.

Which is precisely what I am asking you. . .(post #119)

 

[fhansen]

Which is precisely what I am asking you. . .(post #125)

Ok. Peter apparently repented. The pastor may or may not have repented. If we turn from our sins we'll be forgiven and purifed. If we do not then we won't. Is there something more to know than that? As I said before, it's a matter of our willingness. We can't know much more than that. God wants all to come to Him. Some will and some won't. Some will remain, and some won't. Some will fail to produce good fruit, and produce bad fruit, meaning they haven't remained.

 

[Clare73]

So what's the point? Some will abandon their faith, abandon God, made apparent by how they live their lives, and stay that way, and some will not.

Your laboring the obvious. . .(post #123).

 

[fhansen]

Your laboring the obvious. . .(post #123).

State the obvious then. My point hasn't changed from the beggining-while, since then, I honestly don't even know what point you're trying to make here.