The sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25: The Progressive Dispensationalist view

[Truth7t7]

I will tell you my understanding of the great city in more detail if only you would just answer my question about Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 first. Those verses indicate that Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem. Do you accept what those scriptures teach or not? If you answer that question, I will answer all of your questions.

I have answered your question, the crucifixion started at Pilates seat, proceeded through the streets of Jerusalem, then ended up at Golgotha, plain, clear, easy to understand

 

[Timtofly]

No, that is not what is being referred to there. Again, they said He would descend from heaven in the same manner that He ascended to heaven. The manner in which He ascended to heaven was bodily and visibly. He will descend from heaven in like manner. They said NOTHING about Him coming back to the same location from where He left. You are not interpreting the verse according to what it actually says.


What evidence do you have to back up what you're saying here, though? It's easy to make claims like this, but do you have any scriptural evidence to back it up? The passages themselves certainly do not say what you claim they are saying, so what other scripture do you have to support your interpretation of those passages?

Why would the angels neglect to mention the rapture when talking about Jesus descending from heaven in the same manner that He ascended to heaven? In the rapture He will be descending from heaven, right? What basis is there for thinking that they were not referring to the event written about in 1 Thess 4:14-17? None that I can see.

So coming back in like manner would be to return on the opposite side of the earth?

 

[Timtofly]

I agree with your thought on the two witnesses, however I believe they will be Enoch/Elijah who never experienced death, Moses died and was buiried

How did both Moses and Elijah appear together then? Moses was not dead and buried. He was as much alive as Elijah was on the mount of Transfiguration.

There are 4 witnesses. Two from the OT and 2 from the NT. One of the witnesses wrote the book of Revelation as a witness to the entire NT church. Two olive branches from the OT. Two candlesticks from the NT.

 

[Timtofly]

That's another non-answer. The correct answer is that there is no reason at all for us to meet Him in the air if we are then taken to heaven afterwards. If we were going to heaven when He comes then we would just be caught up directly to heaven. But, we are not going to heaven after being caught up to meet Him in the air. That is not taught anywhere in scripture.

The entire church body is glorified in the air for the entire earth to see, the accomplishment of the work of the Cross. Then the church remains in the firmament in Paradise. Jesus as King is headed to the Mount of Olives to set up His glorious throne per Matthew 25:31. The church does not come to earth at the Second Coming. The church is removed from the earth at the Second Coming.

Amil is not taught any where in Scripture, yet you seem to create a whole eschatology by cobbling together unrelated Scriptures. Then you have to teach and convince others, your views.

The majority of the church don't need "taken" to heaven. They are already there. Those on earth are not "taken". They are caught up to meet the rest of the assembly in the air to be glorified in view of all those on the earth. It does not matter how fast it happens. It will be forever burned into the minds of those left on the earth.

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

Paul is the one who points out this meeting is in the air.

You complain when we put Scripture together. You all do the same thing. You just come up with a different interpretation. There is a reason in Scripture why we meet in the air. Because that is how Scripture is written, before you all change it to say something else.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Who is the Lord? What is the Day of the Lord? Is Jesus as King, Lord? Is God on the throne since Genesis 1:1, Lord? Is the Holy Spirit, the Lord? Can we be with the Lord at the same time Jesus as King is on the earth? Are we with the Lord right now, even though Jesus is currently in Paradise? Is the Lord always present with us?

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[Truth7t7]

How did both Moses and Elijah appear together then? Moses was not dead and buried. He was as much alive as Elijah was on the mount of Transfiguration.

There are 4 witnesses. Two from the OT and 2 from the NT. One of the witnesses wrote the book of Revelation as a witness to the entire NT church. Two olive branches from the OT. Two candlesticks from the NT.

Were Moses and Elijah in physical human bodies at the transfiguration?

 

[Timtofly]

Were Moses and Elijah in physical human bodies at the transfiguration?

What is a physical human body to you? Did Adam and Eve have physical human bodies prior to Adam's disobedience?

Is there a physical difference in a human body, when an angel appears as human? Are Moses and Elijah angels or humans?

Why would a human appearing on earth not have a physical human body, especially if even angels appear in physical human bodies.

Are you asking if they had their old dead, corruptible, sin infested, physical bodies? No. Not a single soul appearing on earth after physical death can have their old dead, corruptible, sin infested, physical body back. Lazarus did not get his old, dead, corruptible, sin infested, physical body back either.

There is no reason to think that Moses and Elijah did not have a physical body. They were standing there with Jesus, Peter, James, and John. They were Moses and Elijah. They were not 2 angels who looked like Moses and Elijah.

The point is that if Elijah was not dead, standing on the mount of Transfiguration, then neither was Moses. You cannot have one dead and the other alive.