Agreed. The last scripture you posted says it all.Everyone (all Men) "Saved"???
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God???
CONTEXT!!!
Luke 3 (NASB)...John the Baptist Preaches
2 in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness.
3 And he came into all the district around the Jordan,
preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;
4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet,
“The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
‘Make ready the way of the Lord,
Make His paths straight.
5 ‘Every ravine will be filled,
And every mountain and hill will be brought low;
The crooked will become straight,
And the rough roads smooth;
6 And all flesh will see the salvation of God.’”
Isaiah 1 ...Rebellion of God’s People: Judah
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem,
which he saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, >>>kings of Judah<<<.
Isaiah 40 (NASB)...Prophecy of The Greatness of God to Judah
40 “Comfort, O comfort My people,” says your God.
2 “Speak kindly to Jerusalem;
And call out to her, that her warfare has ended,
That her iniquity has been removed,
That she has received of the Lord’s hand
Double for all her sins.”
3 A voice is calling,
“Clear the way for the Lord in the wilderness;
Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.
4 “Let every valley be lifted up,
And every mountain and hill be made low;
And let the rough ground become a plain,
And the rugged terrain a broad valley;
5 Then the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
And all flesh will see it together;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
Matthew 24 ...Jesus' Prophecy of His Glorious Return
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and
then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and
they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His ELECT (ONLY SAVED BELIEVERS) from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Matthew 25...Jesus' Prophecy of His JUDGMENT of the NATIONS (ethnos)
46 These (unbelieving goat NATIONS) will go away into eternal punishment, (SEPARATION)
but the righteous (believing sheep NATIONS) into "eternal (SPIRITUAL)life".”
Matthew 13...Jesus Parable of the Wheat (believers) and the Tares (unbelievers)...EXPLAINED
“The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38 and the field is the world;
and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil,
and the harvest is "the end of the age" (of Grace?);
and the reapers are angels.
40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at "the end of the age".
41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels,
and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire;
in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
He who has ears, let him hear.
I'll go with Jesus.
You may feel free to follow "Univeralists".
"Christian Universalism" is the theological position that: ALL of mankind will ultimately be "saved" through Jesus whether or not spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF leads to salvation in this life.
It claims that God's qualities require that ALL people be saved and that eternal punishment is a false doctrine.
There is no distinction between those who ACCEPT God and REJECT God.
Salvation is not from "hell" and eternal spiritual separation / death,
but Salvation is ONLY from sin.
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It is contrary to the very heart of orthodox Christ-following.
John 3: 17-18, 36
...For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might be SAVED THROUGH Him.
He who BELIEVES in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God...
He who BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Agreed.… Jesus taught there are only two types of people prior to death: John3:18 \ Mark16:16 ...
Agreed.So you can't answer that question? A person with Godly faith is more than able to answer the question because he knows Who created him, where he came from, who he was before receiving Christ as Saviour, and who he is now having passed from death to life in Christ. The issue is, on what am I basing all this on? What is the foundation? The thing is that a person who is depending on an existential leap of faith is unable to discuss this because he doesn't know on what foundation he has his faith.
Agreed.GOD WANTS / DESIRES ALL TO BE SAVED ...but He FOREKNOWS that some will reject His spiritual calling / drawing.
1 Timothy 2 (NASB)
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who DESIRES all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all (WHO ACCEPT) ,
the testimony given at the proper time.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.” (WHO ACCEPT) ,
GOD OFFERS. Man accepts or rejects.
Revelation 17:14b
...and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.
God calls / draws all. A few hear and accept.
CALL/DRAW/KNOCK...to ALL!
John 6:44
No one can come to Me
unless the Father who sent Me
(spiritually) DRAWS him;
and I will raise him up on the last day.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means:
‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’
for I did not come to CALL the righteous, but sinners.”
Matthew 22:14
For many are CALLED, but few are chosen.” (by ACCEPTING!)
Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions,
MADE us (spiritually) ALIVE together with Christ
(by grace (through spirit-led FAITH/BELIEF) you HAVE BEEN saved),
Matthew 7:8 ...Man's spiritual JOBS
For everyone who asks receives,
and he who seeks finds,
and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock;
if anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
CHOOSE / CHOICE / "FREE WILL"
Man SPIRITUALLY CHOOSES whether he want to be a "child of God" (saved believer)...or...NOT.
God spiritually calls/draws/knocks to ALL.
EACH Man's spirit must accept or reject.
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that
I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
1 Chronicles 28:9...KING David to wise son Solomon
“As for you, my son Solomon,
know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; BUT
if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
That's good. And let's add verse 20 to this passage.The word RESTITUTION does not appear in the NT.
restitution...(NOUN:
1. the restoration of something lost or stolen to its proper owner.
2 .recompense for injury or loss.
3. the restoration of something to its original state.
God sent His Son for RECONCILIATION of those who accept His gracious provisions for salvation.
RECONCILIATION
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
2 Cor. 5:21 ...imputed righteousness
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
God does not want us to return us to Eden / A&E.
He wants us to accept His Son and Jesus' works.
I'm with you on this comment.
And even our scriptures make it clear that there are two kinds of individuals. The default position is to be lost without a savior. I found an interesting connection between the Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus and an important scripture in the gospel of John that aptly illustrates this separation. There is a positional change for believers. Crossed over from death to life. And this happens in the land of the living, not in the realm of the dead.
Luke 16:26-28
And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Good point.God is perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL.
God is ALSO perfectly JUST and renders JUDGMENTS.
He hates sin. He loves sinners and wants them to accept Him.
Right.PER the Bible:
There are TWO spiritual realms which are CREATED and SEPARATED by God:
1. Believers who have ACCEPTED God's calling / drawing unto salvation (heavenly realms)
Matthew 6:10
‘Your (heavenly) kingdom (of God) come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
2.UNBelievers who have REJECTED God's calling / drawing unto salvation ("LAKE OF FIRE").
Revelation 20:15...SAVED BELIEVER'S
And if anyone’s name was not found written in the (Lamb's) "book of life", he was thrown into the "lake of fire".
Why not stand and fight. The Bible is on our side. All they have in emotionalism to stand on.All true Christ-followers should flee this twisted, heretical, and Non-Scriptural OP.
Why not stand and fight. The Bible is on our side. All they have in emotionalism to stand on.
That is exactly what I tried to tell Steve to 'not do' before sending him here. But he proved immediately that he is here to win. And he tries to do so with what man has taught, instead of seeking to learn what the Spirit would willingly teach, to anyone who is of a contrite heart. But after one PM post I 'felt' no future in entertaining him one on one. I thought you might do better' Fine Linen....sorry. But your first "spiritual judgment" after 'one post' from him, matched mine.Dear Saint: If you are here to fight with the Bible on your side, you will never engage poor old F.L. If however, you desire an expansion of your present grasp of the Holy, we will attempt to move in that direction.
PaulCyp1 said: ↑
If God is going to save all people, what is the purpose of this farce we call life on Earth?
Why 'do anything, but sin like hell' indeed? Since "out of the heart the mouth speaks" this quote doesn't speak well IMO. For what's in his heart is obviously not of God OR one pursuing salvation from the suicide of sin in THIS WORLD WE LIVE IN. For me, the whole purpose of being saved this side of glory was preached by Peter on the foundation day of the church.And, why shouldn't I do anything I feel like doing while I'm here, if I'm going to end up saved anyway?
That is exactly what I tried to tell Steve to 'not do' before sending him here. But he proved immediately that he is here to win. And he tries to do so with what man has taught, instead of seeking to learn what the Spirit would willingly teach, to anyone who is of a contrite heart. But after one PM post I 'felt' no future in entertaining him one on one. I thought you might do better' Fine Linen....sorry. But your first "spiritual judgment" after 'one post' from him, matched mine.So here WE are.
But maybe it will hopefully breathe new life here, in your favorite thread.After all he's rang the bell of every other 'anti' with his myriad onslaught of posts, before even hearing a first response from lowly and lonely you. The first thought I had seeing all his posts was that it looked a bit like emotional 'fear' to me. Because 'fear always rests in the strength of numbers.
Indeed his very first post here was to agree with another when he said;
I once had a pastor, upon finding out I was a UR/Uni believer, declare to me in disbelief...three years after we started coming; "How can you believe God will save everyone, you've brought more people into this church than almost anyone else." That totally baffled him. I told him it was because he didn't obviously did not understand Ultimate Reconciliation. And guess what? He never asked one question as to why I did.
Listen to the confession of the quote above. Is he even saved? I thank God my life in him isn't a farce only because I believe in eternal hell as he testifies. But then, I don't serve God out of fear of eternal hell any more than I stay married out of fear of divorce. I serve Him because He FIRST loved me and he also "predestined, called, drew and ordained me to believe." IOW it was Him and His work for me to be saved in this age and not the ages to come. And I love Him back in return by doing what he calls all to do.
Why 'do anything, but sin like hell' indeed? Since "out of the heart the mouth speaks" this quote doesn't speak well IMO. For what's in his heart is obviously not of God OR one pursuing salvation from the suicide of sin in THIS WORLD WE LIVE IN. For me, the whole purpose of being saved this side of glory was preached by Peter on the foundation day of the church.
ACT 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!"
How sad, this brother, and apparently agreeing Steve, both think that they are suffering because they aren't allowed to sin as they confess they would really like to.
When I was 'truly' saved, I realized that I'd have been a Christian even if there wasn't any ETERNAL HELL, because my life in Christ was better than my life of sin in the world. Too bad most of Christianity doesn't experience the LIFE of Christ fully as I apparently do. They appear to be bound to give lip service motivated by the emotion of FEAR OF ETERNAL HELL.
That is exactly what I tried to tell Steve to 'not do' before sending him here. But he proved immediately that he is here to win. And he tries to do so with what man has taught, instead of seeking to learn what the Spirit would willingly teach, to anyone who is of a contrite heart. But after one PM post I 'felt' no future in entertaining him one on one. I thought you might do better' Fine Linen....sorry. But your first "spiritual judgment" after 'one post' from him, matched mine.So here WE are.
But maybe it will hopefully breathe new life here, in your favorite thread.After all he's rang the bell of every other 'anti' with his myriad onslaught of posts, before even hearing a first response from lowly and lonely you. The first thought I had seeing all his posts was that it looked a bit like emotional 'fear' to me. Because 'fear always rests in the strength of numbers.
Indeed his very first post here was to agree with another when he said;
I once had a pastor, upon finding out I was a UR/Uni believer, declare to me in disbelief...three years after we started coming; "How can you believe God will save everyone, you've brought more people into this church than almost anyone else." That totally baffled him. I told him it was because he didn't obviously did not understand Ultimate Reconciliation. And guess what? He never asked one question as to why I did.
Listen to the confession of the quote above. Is he even saved? I thank God my life in him isn't a farce only because I believe in eternal hell as he testifies. But then, I don't serve God out of fear of eternal hell any more than I stay married out of fear of divorce. I serve Him because He FIRST loved me and he also "predestined, called, drew and ordained me to believe." IOW it was Him and His work for me to be saved in this age and not the ages to come. And I love Him back in return by doing what he calls all to do.
Why 'do anything, but sin like hell' indeed? Since "out of the heart the mouth speaks" this quote doesn't speak well IMO. For what's in his heart is obviously not of God OR one pursuing salvation from the suicide of sin in THIS WORLD WE LIVE IN. For me, the whole purpose of being saved this side of glory was preached by Peter on the foundation day of the church.
ACT 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!"
How sad, this brother, and apparently agreeing Steve, both think that they are suffering because they aren't allowed to sin as they confess they would really like to.
When I was 'truly' saved, I realized that I'd have been a Christian even if there wasn't any ETERNAL HELL, because my life in Christ was better than my life of sin in the world. Too bad most of Christianity doesn't experience the LIFE of Christ fully as I apparently do. They appear to be bound to give lip service motivated by the emotion of FEAR OF ETERNAL HELL.
Seriously?That is exactly what I tried to tell Steve to 'not do' before sending him here. But he proved immediately that he is here to win. And he tries to do so with what man has taught...
Seriously?
It seems that it is man who has taught that "eternal" is not eternal and "punishment" is not punishment. Thus watering down the clear warnings of eternal separation from God in the afterlife. Preferring instead "a trip into the vast layers of the unspoken outer laminar spheres of the Father's glory." (hocus pocus)
And just to be clear, I have never suffered from a personal fear of hell for myself, but have instead been concerned with the very real threat of a Christless eternity for the lost. In fact I was called under that very circumstance. Thinking it good that others should "go forward" to receive Christ, the Father asked me, "If you think it is good for them, why haven't you done it?" A very captivating thought for an eight year old boy. I wasted no time to get down front and receive Him personally.
Why would you question someone's salvation?Listen to the confession of the quote above. Is he even saved?
That's a pretty heavy-handed conclusion/accusation to lay on the two of us, simply for questioning your point of view. Seems more like a kneejerk reaction to falsely accuse the opposition.How sad, this brother, and apparently agreeing Steve, both think that they are suffering because they aren't allowed to sin as they confess they would really like to.
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