The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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FineLinen

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Immortality grants the believers endless life at Christ's return. "And so we will always be with the Lord." (1 Thess.4:17). OTOH Mt.25:46 is contrasting eonian destinies, not final destinies, with eonian life to the righteous & eonian chastening to the wicked.

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Does aionios always mean eternal in ancient Koine Greek? (paradise, Gospel, hell) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Is aionion necessarily coequal in duration with aionion (in Mt.25:46)?

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?
My brother F.L is on the East coast you on the West. I am heading back to bed leaving this discussion in able hands.
 
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FineLinen

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Thank you :) I long for deliverance!! My website only tells about the good stuff, not the unspeakable pain.
Dear lady the whole of created life longs for deliverance! You will not venture far from where you dwell before encountering the cry rising up before you. Most of our broken species are unaware of why they are groaning and travailing. They are simply lost and needing Intervention. We cannot meet the groan, only the Father who loves every last one can! What we can do is proclaim the coming glorious Intervention, and seek to spread something of value to His needy subjects. I have a little video that details the life of a man who in the most deplorable conditions turned agony into glory, coming up next>>>>>>>

 
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needhugs

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Dear lady the whole of created life longs for deliverance! You will not venture far from where you dwell before encountering the cry rising up before you. Most of our broken species are unaware of why they are groaning and travailing. They are simply lost and needing Intervention. We cannot meet the groan, only the Father who loves every last one can! What we can do is proclaim the coming glorious Intervention, and seek to spread something of value to His needy subjects. I have a little video that details the life of a man who in the most deplorable conditions turned agony into glory, coming up next>>>>>>>

Do you know what a demon told me one time? of course you don't, so i will tell you, it said 'christianity is our religion, it makes people accept hell' i have seen demons tricking people in near death experiences, these people would actually believe they deserved hell for eternity for wearing makeup, or whatever sin they can accuse a Christian of...
There is a call, Universalists must answer, to tell the truth about hell, so Christians no longer have to be in the devil's territory... or atheists for that matter.
There is a universalist guy on youtube who says that Mainstream Christianity who doesn't believe Jesus is REALLY the Saviour of the World, who believe in eternal punishment, he says they are serving a false god... i PANICKED when i heard that!! I threw myself onto my knees and resaid the sinner's prayer to THE REAL JESUS, THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, and after that, I lay on the couch and it was like an angel was putting a soft crumpled piece of paper in my ear, and it had a line from a song on it, it was muffled and I strained to hear... 'A new Wind is blowing through these streets' and it took me a couple minutes to figure out what song it was... it was this ===>>>>
 
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FineLinen

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Fear is the instrument of the enemy. The scripture says "perfect love casteth out all fear." At the base of salvation is the Love of God- He is love, not torment. It takes the Spirit of the Lord to open our minds to realize what God the Father has offered us in Jesus Christ - Salvation - in every part of our lives - the restitution of all things. This is the Good News the angels proclaimed. He does not condemn us, but receives as our Heavenly Father. Some people cannot believe that we are not damned to a Christless eternity, but we commit them to God and ask Him to open their eyes. There is no condemnation. The Lord must reveal these truths to us. I trust this person can help you - just keep committing yourself to the Father, knowing that He is with you - He will never forsake you. Don't listen to the enemy. Ask the Lord to fill you with His Holy Spirit and surround you with His presence.
 
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needhugs

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Fear is the instrument of the enemy. The scripture says "perfect love casteth out all fear." At the base of salvation is the Love of God- He is love, not torment. It takes the Spirit of the Lord to open our minds to realize what God the Father has offered us in Jesus Christ - Salvation - in every part of our lives - the restitution of all things. This is the Good News the angels proclaimed. He does not condemn us, but receives as our Heavenly Father. Some people cannot believe that we are not damned to a Christless eternity, but we commit them to God and ask Him to open their eyes. There is no condemnation. The Lord must reveal these truths to us. I trust this person can help you - just keep committing yourself to the Father, knowing that He is with you - He will never forsake you. Don't listen to the enemy. As the Lord to fill you with His Holy Spirit and surround you with His presence.

yes, I know that it takes God to open peoples' eyes to The Victorious Gospel... He had to open my eyes about it... i mean i knew about it for years, and even wrote a book on the subject, but i didn't believe it fully in my heart, until Jesus gave me the faith for it... I think it's a test, for all of us...

Like when Jesus said 'Why do you call Me good? There is none good but God'... people either gloss over that scripture, or out and out say 'see??? He's admitting He's not God!'... but it was a test... He didn't say 'DON'T call Me good' He asked him WHY, coz it was 'Do you KNOW I'm God? or don't you? what's it gonna be boy, I can wait all night, YES.. or NO??'

God niggles at us, with our 'pet doctrine of hellfire for almost everyone' and ironically, people hang on to it, 'just in case it's true'... they think it's the SAFE thing to do, to run with the crowd, it's safe to believe in worse case scenario, coz then they won't be disappointed... BUT GOD IS DISAPPOINTED.... He wants us to see Him, know Him, love Him, BELIEVE in Him... He wasn't very kind to job's comforters who painted a pretty bad picture of God... He isn't pleased with bad pictures painted of Him today either.

'Who do YOU say that I am?' is a very important question, and you are right, it has to be revealed by the Spirit of God to people... but if universalists don't talk about it, they won't even know any other way of looking at God even EXISTS, i know i didn't know until i found a scrupulosity forum that had been cleared out of sufferers because of ONE GUY'S ONE POST on universalism!! he put a lot of links in there, and i devoured them all... but yeah, i needed God to make it for sure to me.
 
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thesunisout

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"Aionios" has the scope of ages, like the Hebrew "olam". Eternal life is based on a firmer foundation of "aidios". Both are life from God, one age lasting, the other rooted in the "aidios' God who only can be described as "eternal". The wicked (and Jesus Christ describes exactly what are the qualifications for "everlasting life" & "everlasting punishment in Matthew 25) does not remotely use the word wicked in that regards!

1 Timothy 6:16

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting(Aionios). Amen

Actually, Aionios does have the scope of eternity. Is Gods power limited to the Millennial kingdom? Is it ever limited in any way? The answer of course is that His power is everlasting, never limited in any sense. Your interpretive scheme is say every instance of Aionios only has to do with the coming Millennial kingdom, but you have no actual biblical justification for that. Here in 1 Timothy 6:16 Aionios clearly means forever and not just a coming age. 1 Timothy 6:16 settles the debate about whether Aionios has the scope of eternity. When Jesus says we have eternal life, He means forever, and not just certain ages. When He contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life in Matthew 25 He is using the same words and saying the same thing.

I am going to drop out of this debate about the meaning of words with you, because the scripture tells us it ruins the hearers. God bless
 
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FineLinen

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1 Timothy 6:16

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting(Aionios). Amen

Actually, Aionios does have the scope of eternity. Is Gods power limited to the Millennial kingdom? Is it ever limited in any way? The answer of course is that His power is everlasting, never limited in any sense. Your interpretive scheme is say every instance of Aionios only has to do with the coming Millennial kingdom, but you have no actual biblical justification for that. Here in 1 Timothy 6:16 Aionios clearly means forever and not just a coming age. 1 Timothy 6:16 settles the debate about whether Aionios has the scope of eternity. When Jesus says we have eternal life, He means forever, and not just certain ages. When contrasts eternal punishment with that in Matthew 25 He is using the same words and saying the same thing.

I am going to drop out of this debate about the meaning of words with you, because the scripture tells us it ruins the hearers. God bless
My friend, never have I mentioned the millennial Kingdom. Regarding aionios: there is indeed aionios life as there is aionios punishment. The word is in the exact time frame as the Hebrew olam. If you search a little more dramatically, you will find aionios life & aionios punishment have an end relating to age & ages. Adios (eternal), on the other hand, which is only found in two passages of Canon, is strictly rooted in the Aidios God. Eternal life eclipses aionial life by a magnitude off the charts. Coming up: the Hebrew olam

Olam=

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'
 
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thesunisout

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My friend,never have I mentioned the millennial Kingdom. Regarding aionios: there is indeed aionios life as there is aionios punishment. The word is in the exact time frame as the Hebrew olam. If you search a little more dramatically, you will find aionios life & aionios punishment have an end relating to age & ages. Adios (eternal), on the other hand, which is only found in two passages of Canon, is strictly rooted in the Aidios God. Eternal life eclipses aionial life by a magnitude off the charts.Coming up: the Hebrew olam

Olam=

I did search and I found 1 Timothy 6:16 in which aionios means Gods power is forever, and forever in that case is forever. In any case, I am really bowing out now. God bless
 
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FineLinen

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I did search and I found 1 Timothy 6:16 in which aionios means Gods power is forever, and forever in that case is forever. In any case, I am really bowing out now. God bless
1Timothy 6.16=

1 Timothy 6:16 - who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see.

Jonathan Mitchell N.T. Translation=

::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::

16. "the Only One ‑ the One continuously holding [thus: having control of] immortality (deathlessness), the One continuously making His home (dwelling) in inaccessible (unapproachable) light, Whom not one of mankind sees, saw or perceived, nor is able (has power) to see (perceive), in Whom [is] honor (value; worth), and eonian strength (might having the qualities and characteristics of the ages; enduring and pertaining to the Eons). It is so (Amen)!"
 
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FineLinen

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Judas? listen to his 'fate'...

Little lady: I woke up this morning with you upon my heart & in my prayers before our God. I am deeply concerned about you, and will continue the call of the Spirit in your regards. I do not believe this is the proper place to address your suffering. In the following link is a place where you can perhaps find some relief. I will attempt to meet with you there as time permits>>>>>>>>>

Anxiety, Panic & Agoraphobia
 
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ClementofA

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Here in 1 Timothy 6:16 Aionios clearly means forever and not just a coming age.

Not necessarily. God's power is not only in eternity but also in eons (i.e. ages) when He works in people's lives & demonstrates His power through creation & the resurrection of Christ, etc. Here God Himself is said to be aionion & epiaionion(more than aionion):

"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?" "

"In the Apostolical Constitutions, a work of the fourth century A.D., it is said, kai touto humin esto nomimon aionion hos tes suntleias to aionos, "And let this be to you an eonian ordinance until the consummation of the eon." Obviously there was no thought in the author's mind of endless time."

Chapter Nine


1 Timothy 6:16 settles the debate about whether Aionios has the scope of eternity.

Even if it meant eternity in that one verse, due to context, that tells us nothing about what it means in hundreds of other different contexts in the NT, the Greek OT & ancient Koine Greek in general. Here is a list of many examples where aionion is finite:

Two Questions

When Jesus says we have eternal life, He means forever, and not just certain ages.

Not necessarily. Consider the following quote:

"Origen even makes so-called "eternal life" ("eonian life" in literal translations) finite when he speaks of "after eternal life" & "beyond eternal life":

(19) "And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life. For Christ is life but he who is greater than Christ is greater than life." (Origen's Commentary on John 13:19).

Commentary on the Gospel According to John, Books 13-32, By Origen"

When He contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life in Matthew 25 He is using the same words and saying the same thing.

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...in-duration-with-aionion-in-mt-25-46.8069208/


I am going to drop out of this debate about the meaning of words with you, because the scripture tells us it ruins the hearers. God bless

Scripture tells us:

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; (1 Thess.5:21)

Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. (Acts 17:11)

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: (Prov.1:5)
 
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FineLinen

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Not necessarily. God's power is not only in eternity but also in eons (i.e. ages) when He works in people's lives & demonstrates His power through creation & the resurrection of Christ, etc. Here God Himself is said to be aionion & epiaionion(more than aionion):

"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?" "

"In the Apostolical Constitutions, a work of the fourth century A.D., it is said, kai touto humin esto nomimon aionion hos tes suntleias to aionos, "And let this be to you an eonian ordinance until the consummation of the eon." Obviously there was no thought in the author's mind of endless time."

Chapter Nine




Even if it meant eternity in that one verse, due to context, that tells us nothing about what it means in hundreds of other different contexts in the NT, the Greek OT & ancient Koine Greek in general. Here is a list of many examples where aionion is finite:

Two Questions



Not necessarily. Consider the following quote:

"Origen even makes so-called "eternal life" ("eonian life" in literal translations) finite when he speaks of "after eternal life" & "beyond eternal life":

(19) "And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life. For Christ is life but he who is greater than Christ is greater than life." (Origen's Commentary on John 13:19).

Commentary on the Gospel According to John, Books 13-32, By Origen"



Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

Is aionion necessarily coequal in duration with aionion (in Mt.25:46)?




Scripture tells us:

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; (1 Thess.5:21)

Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. (Acts 17:11)

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: (Prov.1:5)
 
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FineLinen

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Clement my friend, greetings again. I forgot all about being on this site many moons ago (near death experiences can badly interrupt our little life); at any rate, I am finding a fresh release of the Holy Ghost in resuming posting again. Perhaps it is the action of speaking of a God who overwhelms with His glory as we arise to testify of Him. Does it help anybody? Only Abba knows, but I know it will release a flood within us as we rise to do the Father's business. In the past couple of days on this very site, communication has been made with Sweden, Great Britain & New South Wales. Only Abba knows the lurkers. Again friend, may His sweet Presence be with you, and all of us, as we pursue a path marked out by glory.

The Doctrine Of The Ages

The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible
 

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needhugs

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Little lady: I woke up this morning with you upon my heart & in my prayers before our God. I am deeply concerned about you, and will continue the call of the Spirit in your regards. I do not believe this is the proper place to address your suffering. In the following link is a place where you can perhaps find some relief. I will attempt to meet with you there as time permits>>>>>>>>>

Anxiety, Panic & Agoraphobia
Sorry if i ruined your thread, i'll bow out...
i just say what's on my mind, heart on sleeve, i have no guile lol
 
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needhugs

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1 Timothy 6:16

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting(Aionios). Amen

Actually, Aionios does have the scope of eternity. Is Gods power limited to the Millennial kingdom? Is it ever limited in any way? The answer of course is that His power is everlasting, never limited in any sense. Your interpretive scheme is say every instance of Aionios only has to do with the coming Millennial kingdom, but you have no actual biblical justification for that. Here in 1 Timothy 6:16 Aionios clearly means forever and not just a coming age. 1 Timothy 6:16 settles the debate about whether Aionios has the scope of eternity. When Jesus says we have eternal life, He means forever, and not just certain ages. When He contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life in Matthew 25 He is using the same words and saying the same thing.

I am going to drop out of this debate about the meaning of words with you, because the scripture tells us it ruins the hearers. God bless
you SAW what it meant in strong's, if you didn't, go back and reread my post on the subject, i put it in as an after thought... obviously the word has very little MEANING, and is used willy nilly to describe whatever mystery is indescribable at the time... PUNISHMENT without beginning or end?? LIFE without beginning or end???
ok, i'm going lol
 
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Ron Gurley

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Everyone (all Men) "Saved"???

And all flesh shall see the salvation of God???

CONTEXT!!!

Luke 3 (NASB)...John the Baptist Preaches
2 in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness.
3 And he came into all the district around the Jordan,
preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;
4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet,

“The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
‘Make ready the way of the Lord,
Make His paths straight.
5 ‘Every ravine will be filled,
And every mountain and hill will be brought low;
The crooked will become straight,
And the rough roads smooth;
6 And all flesh will see the salvation of God.’”

Isaiah 1 ...Rebellion of God’s People: Judah
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem,
which he saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, >>>kings of Judah<<<.

Isaiah 40 (NASB)...Prophecy of The Greatness of God to Judah
40 “Comfort, O comfort My people,” says your God.
2 “Speak kindly to Jerusalem;
And call out to her, that her warfare has ended,
That her iniquity has been removed,
That she has received of the Lord’s hand
Double for all her sins.”
3 A voice is calling,
“Clear the way for the Lord in the wilderness;
Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.
4 “Let every valley be lifted up,
And every mountain and hill be made low;
And let the rough ground become a plain,
And the rugged terrain a broad valley;
5 Then the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
And all flesh will see it together;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Matthew 24 ...Jesus' Prophecy of His Glorious Return
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and
then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and
they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His ELECT (ONLY SAVED BELIEVERS) from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Matthew 25...Jesus' Prophecy of His JUDGMENT of the NATIONS (ethnos)
46 These (unbelieving goat NATIONS) will go away into eternal punishment, (SEPARATION)
but the righteous (believing sheep NATIONS) into "eternal (SPIRITUAL)life".”

Matthew 13...Jesus Parable of the Wheat (believers) and the Tares (unbelievers)...EXPLAINED
“The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38 and the field is the world;
and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil,
and the harvest is "the end of the age" (of Grace?);
and the reapers are angels.
40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at "the end of the age".
41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels,
and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire;
in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
He who has ears, let him hear.

I'll go with Jesus.

You may feel free to follow "Univeralists".

"Christian Universalism" is the theological position that: ALL of mankind will ultimately be "saved" through Jesus whether or not spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF leads to salvation in this life.
It claims that God's qualities require that ALL people be saved and that eternal punishment is a false doctrine.
There is no distinction between those who ACCEPT God and REJECT God.
Salvation is not from "hell" and eternal spiritual separation / death,
but Salvation is ONLY from sin.

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

It is contrary to the very heart of orthodox Christ-following.

John 3: 17-18, 36
...For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might be SAVED THROUGH Him.
He who BELIEVES in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God...
He who BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
 
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Ron Gurley

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Christian Universalism | CARM.org

Conclusion
"Christian Universalism" really isn't Christian and it is meshed with many other unorthodox and erroneous teachings. This belief system should be avoided.
 
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needhugs

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well, after THAT
here is a cheery preaching, ever notice how some 'universalists', after they have this glorious truth revealed to them, the devil deceives them on the Trinity??

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, theWord, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 
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FineLinen

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Well done Needhugs! It is evident many cannot grasp the fact that "Our God is the Saviour of all men", and we are commanded to preach it!

But wait; there is more!

and especially of those who believe/trust in Him"

"..so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."
 
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FineLinen

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Christian Universalism | CARM.org

Conclusion
"Christian Universalism" really isn't Christian and it is meshed with many other unorthodox and erroneous teachings. This belief system should be avoided.
My friend welcome: let us hear what the apostle St. Paul has to say about the "erroneous teaching" of our Father's "cherished" purpose in the Son of His love, the Lord Jesus Christ.


"..so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."

By Richard Bauckham (Professor Of N.T. Studies)

Universalism: a historical survey by Richard Bauckham
 
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