The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[FineLinen]

"The Restitution of ALL things" = horsefeathers! and unScriptural.

The Final eternal spiritual state and realm for BELEVERS ONLY...The New Heavens and the New Earth and the New Jerusalem. Rev. 21

Rev. 21
8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Dear Ron: I will repeat, the ta pante of the all (the Source), is the Goal of the all. You cannot see it, but alas, it is a fact!

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

 

[Ron Gurley]

1 TIMOTHY 4 (NASB)
8B ...godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.
10 For it is for this (godliness) we labor and strive,
because we have fixed our hope on the living God,
who is the Savior of all men, (WHO ACCEPT HIM) especially of believers.

Not all ACCEPT Him spiritually when called. = UNbelievers

 

[needhugs]

1 TIMOTHY 4 (NASB)
8B ...godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.
10 For it is for this (godliness) we labor and strive,
because we have fixed our hope on the living God,
who is the Savior of all men, (WHO ACCEPT HIM) especially of believers.

Not all ACCEPT Him spiritually when called. = UNbelievers

REALLY???? you will really add to the Word???
watch this durned video, it's PROOF, or lose your right to express an opinion... if you won't educate yourself, there is no excuse

 

[Ron Gurley]

God is perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL.
God is ALSO perfectly JUST and renders JUDGMENTS.
He hates sin. He loves sinners and wants them to accept Him.

 

[needhugs]

Dear Ron: I will repeat, the ta pante of the all (the Source),is the Goal of the all. You cannot see it, but alas, it is a fact!

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

you forgot 're-gurgitation' for some of our brothers here lol (aaaawwww thank you for the blessings!!)
jk, you forgot re-generation ...that's a KJV word

Matthew 19:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[FineLinen]

God is perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL.
God is ALSO perfectly JUST and renders JUDGMENTS.
He hates sin. He loves sinners and wants them to accept Him.

Dear Ron: From Abba whose essence is Light/Fire/Spirit/Faithful & Love, all of His other attributes flow in perfect harmony. God is NOT perfectly loving, God is love, the perfect expression of love. God not only loves sinners. His perfect Essence is working in perfect sync to bring His will to bear in every last life. All judgement of all His fallen creatures can be trusted with a capital "T"!

 

[FineLinen]

The Destruction Of The Wicked

The "Destruction" of the Wicked

Roger Tutt

Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt

Prof. Keith DeRose The Really Good News

Universalism and the Bible – Keith DeRose

"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."

The Purpose of God By Vladimir Gelesnoff

In PAUL'S letters repeated reference is made to God's "purpose" (Rom.8:28; 9:11; Eph.1:11; 3:11; 2 Tim.1:9). In all these scriptures the word is prothesis. Its force may be gathered from the fact that the twelve loaves which were placed on the Tabernacle table before the Lord are styled "loaves of purpose" (Matt.12:4; Mark 2:26; Luke 6:14; Heb.9:2).

Hence the scriptures which speak of God's prothesis tell us that He has set before Himself a definite aim or object which He is bent on achieving.

In Eph.3:11, occurs the phrase, "according to the purpose of the eons which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The Purpose Of God, by Vladimir Gelesnoff

George Hawtin: The Restitution Of All Things

https://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html

A.P. Adams

http://sigler.org/adams/

Christ Triumphant (Thomas Allin)

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

The Second Death & The Restitution Of All Things (Andrew Jukes)

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html

 

[FineLinen]

Because He Is Risen

Because he is risen
Spring is possible
In all the cold hard places
Gripped by winter
And freedom jumps the queue
To take fear’s place
as our focus
Because he is risen

Because he is risen
My future is an epic novel
Where once it was a mere short story
My contract on life is renewed
in perpetuity
My options are open-ended
My travel plans are cosmic
Because he is risen

Because he is risen
Healing is on order and assured
And every disability will bow
Before the endless dance of his ability
And my grave too will open
When my life is restored
For this frail and fragile body
Will not be the final word
on my condition
Because he is risen

Because He is Risen |Gerard Kelly

 

[Hillsage]

you mean that Rood guy from Rood Awakenings? He is a Messianic dude i think... he seems to accept that he cannot help Nehemia see the truth of Christ... must be hard for him.

Bingo, that's him. I don't know how I came accross Rood, but he led me to Nehemia, as I said many years ago. After eating the meat to the bone, I left. Haven't been back since. I give up on the 'Messianic' POV. For me, it was more of a religious 'mess', than it was spiritually Messianic. Lost the fellowship of some long time brethren over 'it', and decided it's just another denominational and 'religious spirited' division.

hmmm, this is confusing lol ... do you think the church is rebuilding the tower? i have never heard that from anyone, did you get a revelation? i've often wondered even worse things about the church, like 'come out of her My people' type bad things... but i try to put it out of my mind, coz i don't want to feel any pride... esp since we ALL only know 'in part

If you read Eby you see he believes that the 'Babylon' of Revelation is 'the nominal church' of organized religion. So, "confusing" you say? Yes I suppose it is. But add to what I said, this fact; that the church not only is 'building the tower' 'it IS the tower. The spiritual truth is, we don't GO TO CHURCH.....we ARE the church. And according to Peter/Paul each of us is a "living stone" being built unto a "holy temple".

1PE 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

EPH 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The 'nominal church' of today is neither living as 'one' nor is it holy IMO. Most aren't accomplishing more than their local Lion's club and the 'greed, avarice, divorces, bankruptcies within its walls equal that of the world. BUT, within every brick and mortar religious building there CAN be those who are truly in 'the church' that Jesus said he'd build. And when God looks down from glory 'that' is 'the church' He sees and is intimate with.

So what I'm saying is this; we are "living stones" "fitly framed together" ...and not identical religious SQUARE BRICKS. Most churches aren't a temple of living stones. They're just a pile of living stones that haven't been built into something by the Spirit which they ignore to carnal mindedly worship 'the book'.

there are some UR peeps who admit to hating a god who can burn people for eternity... and they just try to leave the church, so God shows them as well.

Then their hearts are still sick IMO. A good theology stained with a corrupt application.

 

[needhugs]

Bingo, that's him. I don't know how I came accross Rood, but he led me to Nehemia, as I said many years ago. After eating the meat to the bone, I left. Haven't been back since. I give up on the 'Messianic' POV. For me, it was more of a religious 'mess', than it was spiritually Messianic. Lost the fellowship of some long time brethren over 'it', and decided it's just another denominational and 'religious spirited' division.



If you read Eby you see he believes that the 'Babylon' of Revelation is 'the nominal church' of organized religion. So, "confusing" you say? Yes I suppose it is. But add to what I said, this fact; that the church not only is 'building the tower' 'it IS the tower. The spiritual truth is, we don't GO TO CHURCH.....we ARE the church. And according to Peter/Paul each of us is a "living stone" being built unto a "holy temple".

1PE 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

EPH 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The 'nominal church' of today is neither living as 'one' nor is it holy IMO. Most aren't accomplishing more than their local Lion's club and the 'greed, avarice, divorces, bankruptcies within its walls equal that of the world. BUT, within every brick and mortar religious building there CAN be those who are truly in 'the church' that Jesus said he'd build. And when God looks down from glory 'that' is 'the church' He sees and is intimate with.

So what I'm saying is this; we are "living stones" "fitly framed together" ...and not identical religious SQUARE BRICKS. Most churches aren't a temple of living stones. They're just a pile of living stones that haven't been built into something by the Spirit which they ignore to worship 'the book'.


Then their hearts are still sick IMO. A good theology stained with a corrupt application.

yeah, tentmaker hated God when he thought that eternal torture was true... and so did doug batchelor an SDA preacher... i mean, if God did that, He would actually be.... well i can't say it lol

that would probably be the unpardonable sin? i don't know, i love God, so i can't say it i could say 'even if YOU DOOO burn everyone for eternity, i KNOW You would find a way to make it right' lol whatever THAT means... it means that i trust God so much that i can say nonsense like that

the Messianic/Hebrew Roots... i mean, didn't Peter and Paul get in a fight over that? wasn't it settled? the law got nailed to the cross, right? i wouldn't want that kind of bondage! I'm glad you are free of it. sorry you lost friends... i lost friends for becoming a UR person... total SHUNNING by most everyone... that doesn't feel like a Christian spirit either... shunning?? hating?? i mean, i still love THEM, where did their love go for me?

that living stones being used for the tower... i gotta say that kind of freaks me out!! You know, i think i'm starting to worry more about mainstreamers than i am about THE LOST!!! weird, i know.

thanks, i am enjoying our 'talks'

 

[ClementofA]

"The Restitution of ALL things" = horsefeathers! and unScriptural.

The Final eternal spiritual state and realm for BELIEVERS ONLY...

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

Revelation 5:13 speaks of a time beyond the punishment in the lake of fire.


Rev.15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

This sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Rev.21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making all new!”

"In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). I cannot find any scriptural evidence that these kings of the earth are any different than the previous references. Therefore the only conclusion I can arrive at is it that appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem."


That recalls some other passages about kings:

Psalm 72:11
Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

Psalm 102:15
So the nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth Your glory.

Psalm 138:4
All the kings of the earth will give thanks to You, O LORD, When they have heard the words of Your mouth.

Isaiah 60
2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you. 3"Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate.

Revelation 21:24
By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.


https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[needhugs]

I was on this other thread of someone asking why Jesus was not still dead or in eternal torture, if He was REALLY to pay the price for our sins...

And in the answers i have never seen such a mish mash of lies, false doctrine, or tom foolery lol

I said that He HAD TO raise from the dead, to release us of the consequences of sin, that He did much more than just forgive us... that if He didn't raise from the dead, He would have paid our bail but left us in prison...

simple, yes?

but as usual, i got ignored, and everybody went on with the nonsense.

thank you for the blessings FL xoxox

 

[FineLinen]

I was on this other thread of someone asking why Jesus was not still dead or in eternal torture, if He was REALLY to pay the price for our sins...

And in the answers i have never seen such a mish mash of lies, false doctrine, or tom foolery lol

I said that He HAD TO raise from the dead, to release us of the consequences of sin, that He did much more than just forgive us... that if He didn't raise from the dead, He would have paid our bail but left us in prison...

simple, yes?

but as usual, i got ignored, and everybody went on with the nonsense.

thank you for the blessings FL xoxox

 

[FineLinen]

They better not ignore you. Do you want me to go bang on their empty heads and be ignored as well? Just speak the word of the Master & let Him do the work!

A.P. Adams

The Atonement

ARTICLES BY

Why did Christ Die?

https://www.godfire.net/why_did_christ_die_by_a_p_adams.htm

The Second Death

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Adams/second_death.htm

Judgement

http://kingdom-resources.com/2017/10/02/judgment-by-a-p-adams/

 

[needhugs]

They better not ignore you. Do you want me to go bang on their empty heads and be ignored as well? Just speak the word of the Master & let Him do the work!

A.P. Adams

The Atonement

ARTICLES BY

Why did Christ Die?

https://www.godfire.net/why_did_christ_die_by_a_p_adams.htm

The Second Death

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Adams/second_death.htm

Judgement

http://kingdom-resources.com/2017/10/02/judgment-by-a-p-adams/

haha!! yeah, go hit 'em wid that stuff!!

some were saying that Jesus didn't have to pay the same price as we do.

some were saying that God changed His mind about who goes to hell.

some were even saying that Christ's death did nothing for us, that 'by His wounds we are healed' is all He did for us.... GAH!!

all sorts of weird stuff.

also, there is a subject that i have been meaning to study... they call it 'the doctrine' of the immortal soul

it's something that i'm not 'at rest' about, and Martin Zender goes crazy saying that obviously Jesus was not God, COZ GOD CAN'T DIE!! and if we all have a soul that lives on after death, then that weird stuff about Jesus going to hell to preach is no problem, but i also have to research whether He did that before or after His resurrection... but whether before or after, there were 'souls' there, alive...

and the book of Enoch talked about there being 3 places in hades, one where the bad go, one where the good go, and one that i forget.

plus in the book of revelation, it talks about THE SOULS of those beheaded for the faith, crying out to God to avenge them, and God says they have to wait for them that will die a similar death.

what are souls doing there, if there is no soul? or if this is after the rapture, then that cinches it for the pre-trib rapture, right?

and if there IS a soul that lives on after death, then why would Zender have a problem with Jesus Christ not dying in that way???

that stuff about not believing in the trinity seems to just be the next trick the devil plays to discredit UR.

 

[Hillsage]

it's something that i'm not 'at rest' about, and Martin Zender goes crazy saying that obviously Jesus was not God, COZ GOD CAN'T DIE!! and if we all have a soul that lives on after death, then that weird stuff about Jesus going to hell to preach is no problem, but i also have to research whether He did that before or after His resurrection... but whether before or after, there were 'souls' there, alive...

The body/soul of Jesus didn't go preach, His spirit did...the spirit of Christ. And He didn't preach to 'souls in hell' He preached to 'spirits'. And it was during the three days His body was entombed, but after his spirit had ascended to the Father from the cross.

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

1PE 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

What you might still should research though, is this; Look for a verse anywhere in the bible saying Jesus saves souls. I've never found one.

plus in the book of revelation, it talks about THE SOULS of those beheaded for the faith, crying out to God to avenge them, and God says they have to wait for them that will die a similar death.

Your theology is looking at the Revelation from the 'Futurist' POV. There is also a 'Preterist' interpretation, as well as a 'Historist' and 'Symbolic' interpretive theological POV. If you study EBY you may just decide they're all wrong. Preston's understanding is this; "John was IN THE SPIRIT when he received the Revelation, and you are going to have to be 'in the Spirit' in order to truly plumbs the depths of understanding it correctly." I for one, happen to agree with brother Preston's POV.

what are souls doing there, if there is no soul? or if this is after the rapture, then that cinches it for the pre-trib rapture, right?

It has been said that coming into the revelation, that the rapture is a lie, is often the first big step one can ever make to see an opening up of yourself to allow the Spirit to much more freely speak life concerning so many of the dead theologies which 'nominal Christianity' continually clings to.

that stuff about not believing in the trinity seems to just be the next trick the devil plays to discredit UR.

The church fought about the 'trinity' until 325 AD. Do you realize that is longer than the United States has even been in existence? Doesn't that seem a bit weak for a doctrine to be such a litmus today, when it was never even agreed upon, in the 'Christian Church' until that council of Nicea met?

Maybe this post will help to see why I really haven't engaged you earlier Needhugs. Even now I'll just wait to see if some of those judgments you made of others, might just now find there way to me. And if not you, maybe from some others here, whom I truly do respect. I do love your zeal for UR though.

 

[needhugs]

The body/soul of Jesus didn't go preach, His spirit did...the spirit of Christ. And He didn't preach to 'souls in hell' He preached to 'spirits'. And it was during the three days His body was entombed, but after his spirit had ascended to the Father from the cross.

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

1PE 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

What you might still should research though, is this; Look for a verse anywhere in the bible saying Jesus saves souls. I've never found one.


Your theology is looking at the Revelation from the 'Futurist' POV. There is also a 'Preterist' interpretation, as well as a 'Historist' and 'Symbolic' interpretive theological POV. If you study EBY you may just decide they're all wrong. Preston's understanding is this; "John was IN THE SPIRIT when he received the Revelation, and you are going to have to be 'in the Spirit' in order to truly plumbs the depths of understanding it correctly." I for one, happen to agree with brother Preston's POV.


It has been said that coming into the revelation, that the rapture is a lie, is often the first big step one can ever make to see an opening up of yourself to allow the Spirit to much more freely speak life concerning so many of the dead theologies which 'nominal Christianity' continually clings to.


The church fought about the 'trinity' until 325 AD. Do you realize that is longer than the United States has even been in existence? Doesn't that seem a bit weak for a doctrine to be such a litmus today, when it was never even agreed upon, in the 'Christian Church' until that council of Nicea met?

Maybe this post will help to see why I really haven't engaged you earlier Needhugs. Even now I'll just wait to see if some of those judgments you made of others, might just now find there way to me. And if not you, maybe from some others here, whom I truly do respect. I do love your zeal for UR though.

oh my dog!!!!! what judgements did i make??? lol i don't waaaant to judge... i know i called somebody a 'git' the other day for being obtuse lol i also called someone obtuse for being a 'git' lololol oh gosh, lol you are right, i'm a terrible person when i get irritable!! i'm sorry lol

do you not believe in the trinity either? le sigh... there's always some weird thang that make UR peeps not believe in the trinity!! it's bizarre... Zender says that 'God can't die thing, and Jesus died'... but obviously his doubting existence after death, well his logic has a hole in it, esp with the scriptures you gave me about 'spirit' and going to speak with the other 'spirits' in hades... thanks for that btw!... so this is my go-to scripture for the trinity, however mysterious it is... this scripture says it..
1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

you know, that i have read the ENTIRE BIBLE, not just revelation, as a personal journey each of us have to take... but after further consideration i reckoned my cheese had slipped off my cracker... tho i am open to at least taking the book of revelation that way... so the rapture is a lie, i had not heard that before, what about all those 'catching away' type scriptures? what do they mean then? even Martin Zender believes in the rapture, and he's bonkers

I have stopped watching for the rapture, on kind of 'a hunch' but have had no revelation on the subject... however I had a dream, about being in the dark, in sort of an army tent, and the air was thick with palpable evil, and i could tell it was there, but it couldn't 'get in' me... i assumed this was the end, and there was no rapture.

so why don't YOU believe in the trinity? L. Ray had something against the Holy Spirit, and Zender has something against Jesus... now i had to have a HUGE revelation from God that Jesus IS God, coz i didn't believe it... and i'm not about to commit the unpardonable sin by saying The Spirit isn't God... so i'm wondering about it all... Jesus said He had to go, or the the Holy Spirit couldn't come... The way I see that is that before Jesus ascended, only HE had the Holy Spirit, you know? He was God in the flesh, and only He could have the Spirit of God... But if He went back to heaven, in the former glory He asked the Father for, then the Holy Spirit is free to be in us, with Jesus in His place as intercessor, and having made US the righteousness of God thru Him, etc.... but i'm just babbling about it, i have no real understanding of the trinity.

oh and Jesus IMPLIED He saves souls in the scripture 'what good does it do a man to gain the whole world, but lose his soul?'
and 'do not be afraid of man who can kill the body but not the soul, but be afraid of God who can destroy both body AND SOUL in hell'... which also implies that the soul goes on after death of the body. do you think that soul and spirit, those two words are used interchangably?

anyway, i'm sorry for being a jerk on the forum

 

[FineLinen]

The body/soul of Jesus didn't go preach, His spirit did...the spirit of Christ. And He didn't preach to 'souls in hell' He preached to 'spirits'. And it was during the three days His body was entombed, but after his spirit had ascended to the Father from the cross.

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

1PE 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

What you might still should research though, is this; Look for a verse anywhere in the bible saying Jesus saves souls. I've never found one.


Your theology is looking at the Revelation from the 'Futurist' POV. There is also a 'Preterist' interpretation, as well as a 'Historist' and 'Symbolic' interpretive theological POV. If you study EBY you may just decide they're all wrong. Preston's understanding is this; "John was IN THE SPIRIT when he received the Revelation, and you are going to have to be 'in the Spirit' in order to truly plumbs the depths of understanding it correctly." I for one, happen to agree with brother Preston's POV.


It has been said that coming into the revelation, that the rapture is a lie, is often the first big step one can ever make to see an opening up of yourself to allow the Spirit to much more freely speak life concerning so many of the dead theologies which 'nominal Christianity' continually clings to.


The church fought about the 'trinity' until 325 AD. Do you realize that is longer than the United States has even been in existence? Doesn't that seem a bit weak for a doctrine to be such a litmus today, when it was never even agreed upon, in the 'Christian Church' until that council of Nicea met?

Maybe this post will help to see why I really haven't engaged you earlier Needhugs. Even now I'll just wait to see if some of those judgments you made of others, might just now find there way to me. And if not you, maybe from some others here, whom I truly do respect. I do love your zeal for UR though.

My brother: When I started this thread a few weeks ago it never occurred to my simple mind a few choice stones would drop in. We are on the exact same page. Your insight into our Father's loving goodness, and ways past finding out, F.L. appreciates more than words can express!

"The whole of created life shall be set free/ delivered/ emancipated.."

 

[needhugs]

My brother: When I started this thread a few weeks ago it never occurred to my simple mind a few choice stones would drop in. We are on the exact same page. Your insight into our Father's loving goodness, and ways past finding out, F.L. appreciates more than words can express!

"The whole of created life shall be set free/ delivered/ emancipated.."

FL, I thought you might like the following... and btw, thank you for the blessings, i feel so cared about

Francois Du Toit
Amazing thoughts to consider that our Father who knew us individually, completely, long before he formed us, is the same Engineer who knew every minute detail of our being as we grew mystically in the secret sanctuary of our mother's womb! And knows us now, and longs to introduce us to ourselves again, so that we may know, even as we have always been known! Jeremiah 1:5, 1Corinthians 13:12 ....." There is only one faith that matters, not what we believe about God but what he believes about us! "
In the face of the human race God says, Here I am. Not a new wave, new doctrine or a new idea, not even the grace idea! This is bigger than a movement. Because in him we live and move and he defines our being. Here I am. The Greek word parousia so often translated as a future tense coming, 'the coming of the Lord' points rather to the immediate presence of I am!! From para, a preposition indicating close proximity, a thing proceeding from a sphere of influence, with a suggestion of union of place of residence, to have sprung from its author and giver, originating from, denoting the point from which an action originates, intimate connection; and eimi, I am! - The invisible God made visible. Not in a philosophical guess, or some unknown future date, but in human form, in you, mirrored in Christ!

 

[needhugs]

The body/soul of Jesus didn't go preach, His spirit did...the spirit of Christ. And He didn't preach to 'souls in hell' He preached to 'spirits'. And it was during the three days His body was entombed, but after his spirit had ascended to the Father from the cross.

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

1PE 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

What you might still should research though, is this; Look for a verse anywhere in the bible saying Jesus saves souls. I've never found one.


Your theology is looking at the Revelation from the 'Futurist' POV. There is also a 'Preterist' interpretation, as well as a 'Historist' and 'Symbolic' interpretive theological POV. If you study EBY you may just decide they're all wrong. Preston's understanding is this; "John was IN THE SPIRIT when he received the Revelation, and you are going to have to be 'in the Spirit' in order to truly plumbs the depths of understanding it correctly." I for one, happen to agree with brother Preston's POV.


It has been said that coming into the revelation, that the rapture is a lie, is often the first big step one can ever make to see an opening up of yourself to allow the Spirit to much more freely speak life concerning so many of the dead theologies which 'nominal Christianity' continually clings to.


The church fought about the 'trinity' until 325 AD. Do you realize that is longer than the United States has even been in existence? Doesn't that seem a bit weak for a doctrine to be such a litmus today, when it was never even agreed upon, in the 'Christian Church' until that council of Nicea met?

Maybe this post will help to see why I really haven't engaged you earlier Needhugs. Even now I'll just wait to see if some of those judgments you made of others, might just now find there way to me. And if not you, maybe from some others here, whom I truly do respect. I do love your zeal for UR though.

you know, i was sitting there listening to Zender today, the way he talks about the body of Christ only being made up of a small number of UR people... and i began to wonder about that... and i thought about how i thought about God back when i just thought i was stuck with the eternal torture doctrine... God used to cry to me... 'TRUST ME!!!'... but i was soooo scared, the Bible only revealed punishment and condemnation when i read it... it seemed to me that i was always the wicked person they were speaking about... i was terrified... yet i thought i was trusting God... and I still think back to those first months with God... and i DO NOT think it's a 'different Jesus' that i have now, from the One that came to save me back then...

but honestly, it was only most recently, even tho i intellectually knew about UR for years, it was only a couple of months ago that i took the BIG LEAP OF FAITH... and i threw myself onto my knees and quickly RE-said the sinner's prayer 'to THE REAL Jesus, Who DOESN'T burn people for eternity!!!'

and then i went and lied on the couch, and a couple of Spirit fingers put a crumpled up piece of soft paper in my ear, that had a song on it... it was muffled and quiet and i could only get the first line of the song... do you want to hear it?

a new Wind is blowing thru these streets... isn't the Wind the Spirit of God? how could i have a new Spirit, without having a 'different God'?

now, i'm being healed up, and put to peace, in Him... what do you think? do you think mainstreamers are actually serving a 'different Jesus?'

the apostle paul said 'if any preach a different Jesus, let them be accursed'

i think that this may be a bigger issue than the definition of the word 'eternal'... and that scares me.