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Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

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  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That proves a conspiratorial act of Orthodoxy (large "O") against the church. (small "c")
    We read the anathema document earlier from the Council. --- Feel the love.

    Anathema is a curse. They went so far as to put a curse on those of us today that would even have a thought of Universalism. --- Welcome to the Dark Ages.

    Romans 12:14
    Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  2. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Yup.
    We're talkin' 18 hole gulf, not 9 hole gulf. - lol
     
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  3. Elixir

    Elixir New Member Supporter

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    I've lamented that perhaps punishment can be absolute but one would not be considered just "screwed" and utterly doomed with their consciousness either being consigned to eternal conscious torment against their will, or a kind of destruction in which there is no recycling of the consciousness into something else or a new soul - just absolute NOTHINGNESS (after one human life on a relatively technologically underdeveloped planet to boot - this must be the effect of sin), because God is not only Just but has tremendous Grace.

    Still, though, Universalism is starting to not gel with me. What's the point of the Bible being so heavy on the warnings of the wages of sin - death - and how does thinking that everything ultimately gets maximum bliss and glory and reward help me make myself and the world a better person (i.e. transform me into the likeness of Christ (now, while I'm alive on earth while I DEFINITELY have the chance))?


    So, the scriptures too, especially with the original language for analysis, seems to prove that there are some souls who will never taste salvation, because they will be destroyed / separate from God for eternity etc. Maybe outside of scripture there can be provisions for getting a new soul, and one's consciousness will ultimately end up being saved after how ever many cycles of creation or final judgments on their consciousness after having been, say, responsible for not just any sin that leads to death but great sin that probably does such as the Holocaust or mass murder. Who knows, but who cares? Who would want to go through something like that to find out? So, believing in Universalism (saved no matter what I do) would seem to be counter-productive to this end.


    I am very much in agreement with this view! I could find a loving God making such an arrangement to things!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Elexir: Every one of us must come to the place where we know within that our Father can be trusted to do all things well. May you know for yourself the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ is my prayer for you.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    That’s a good question I’m glad you asked.

    2. For as, in the New Testament, that faith of men [to be placed] in God has been increased, receiving in addition [to what was already revealed] the Son of God, that man too might be a partaker of God; so is also our walk in life required to be more circumspect, when we are directed not merely to abstain from evil actions, but even from evil thoughts, and from idle words, and empty talk, and scurrilous language: thus also the punishment of those who do not believe the Word of God, and despise His advent, and are turned away backwards, is increased; being not merely temporal, but rendered also eternal. For to whomsoever the Lord shall say, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, Matthew 25:41 these shall be damned for ever; and to whomsoever He shall say, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you for eternity, Matthew 25:34 these do receive the kingdom for ever, and make constant advance in it; since there is one and the same God the Father, and His Word, who has been always present with the human race, by means indeed of various dispensations, and has wrought out many things, and saved from the beginning those who are saved, (for these are they who love God, and follow the Word of God according to the class to which they belong,) and has judged those who are judged, that is, those who forget God, and are blasphemous, and transgressors of His word.

    St Iranaeus 170AD Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 28
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Anathema was excommunication not a curse.
     
  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Thanks for your support friend:)
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Thanks for your reply, but...
    Why would you quote the statement of ONLY ONE church father as the position of the WHOLE early church and then claim the early church writings (as a whole) tells you Universalism is wrong?
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How is excommunication not a curse?
     
  11. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I haven’t had the time to search thru the others.
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Because a person can be reinstated if they repent of their sin.
     
  13. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Clement of Rome Recognitions book 7 ch 35 (27-97 ad)
    So, then, if they were sure of this, that the punishment of eternal fire awaits those who do not worship God, when would they cease warning and exhorting?
    Justin Martyr 155ad Second Apology Ch 9 (100-165 ad)
    And that no one may say what is said by those who are deemed philosophers, that our assertions that the wicked are punished in eternal fire are big words and bugbears, and that we wish men to live virtuously through fear, and not because such a life is good and pleasant; I will briefly reply to this, that if this be not so, God does not exist; or, if He exists, He cares not for men and neither virtue nor vice is anything, and, as we said before, lawgivers unjustly punish those who transgress good commandments
    Hyppolytus Against Plato, On the Cause of the Universe par 3 (170-236 ad)
    since to those who have done well shall be assigned righteously eternal bliss, and to the lovers of iniquity shall be given eternal punishment. And the fire which is un-quenchable and without end awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which dieth not, and which does not waste the body, but continues bursting forth from the body with unending pain.
    Archelaus Acts of the Disputation with the Heresia par 12
    Therefore receive ye this third testimony, that I am an elect apostle of Christ; and if ye choose to accept my words, ye will find salvation; but if ye refuse them, eternal fire will have you to consume you.
    Cyprian of Carthage epistle 60 par 2 (200-270 ad)
    What more he may wish he must seek thence, from such gain as takes men away from the banquet of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and leads them down, sadly and perniciously fattened in this world, to the eternal torments of hunger and thirst
    Lactantius Divine Institutes book 6 (290-350 ad)
    We therefore speak better and more truly, who say that the two ways belong to heaven and hell, because immortality is promised to the righteous, and everlasting punishment is threatened to the unrighteous.
    John Chrysostom Homily 9 on 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (347-407 ad)
    THIS is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die.
    John Chrysostom Homily 6 on John’s gospel (347-407 ad)
    For though we have all faith and all knowledge of the Scriptures, yet if we be naked and destitute of the protection derived from (holy) living, there is nothing to hinder us from being hurried into the fire of hell, and burning for ever in the unquenchable flame. For as they who have done good shall rise to life everlasting, so they who have dared the contrary shall rise to everlasting punishment, which never has an end.
    John Chrysostom Homily 17 on Statues par 15 (347-407 ad)
    For the things present, whatever they are, are endurable, and have an end; but the torments there are immortal, and interminable!
    John Chrysostom Homily 3 on Second Thessalonians (347-407 ad)
    For the fear even from bare words is sufficient, though we do not fully unfold their meaning. But that it is not temporary, hear Paul now saying, concerning those who know not God, and who do not believe in the Gospel, that "they shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction. How then is that temporary which is everlasting?
    John Chrysostom Homily 9 on First Corinthians (347-407 ad)
    As I said then; that it hath no end, Christ has declared. Paul also saith, in pointing out the eternity of the punishment, that the sinners "shall pay the penalty of destruction, and that for ever" neither fornicators. nor adulterers, nor effeminate, shall inherit the the kingdom of God."
    John Cassian Conference 23 ch 15 (360-435 ad)
    For whoever after baptism and the knowledge of God falls into that death, must know that he will either have to be cleansed, not by the daily grace of Christ, i.e., an easy forgiveness, which our Lord when at any moment He is prayed to, is wont to grant to our errors, but by a lifelong affliction of penitence and penal sorrow, or else will be hereafter consigned to the punishment of eternal fire for them, as the same Apostle thus declares: effeminate, nor defilers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous persons, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God."
     
  14. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lutheran Messianic Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON

    This thread is now permanently closed for flaming/goading.

    MOD HAT OFF
     
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