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All true Christ-followers should flee this twisted, heretical, and Non-Scriptural OP.
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I have no problem with the trinitarian points you just made. Yes, Jesus is God. But scripture also says "God IS spirit". I believe that means always was, always is, always will be. But, "In the beginning was the Word"....not Jesus.it's ok, man... you clarified what we were talking about... and my head is hurting haha
we don't have to go on any further...
i'll just say that Jesus is God and I know that because i said the sinner's prayer back in 2001 totally afraid coz i 'knew' it was no good to worship a man, but it was only a few days later that God grabbed hold of me with a full body electric buzz and said 'JESUS IS GOD!!!!' and i slumped down but my mind went right back to not believing it again, so i got ANOTHER full body buzz of JESUS IS GOD!!! and He may have even had to do it a third time, to install the knowledge... but i finally slumped down on the couch and whimpered 'ok... ok' breathing heavy and shocked that I now believed it lol so it's never a discussion for me whether Jesus is God now, and sure He emptied Himself of it to become man while He was here, but so what? He's still God, and full back up again
anyway, thanks for answering me!
haha... you are fine, that's trinitarian... With God all things are possible, including emptying Himself, and taking Himself back up again after...I have no problem with the trinitarian points you just made. Yes, Jesus is God. But scripture also says "God IS spirit". I believe that means always was, always is, always will be. But, "In the beginning was the Word"....not Jesus.
And in the beginning the Father was spirit, the Word was spirit and the Holy Spirit was spirit...God IS spirit. But the Word "did not consider equality with God as a thing to be grasped" by humans. So the Word gave up the equality of being eternal spirit and "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". The eternal spirit became mortal flesh capable of dying ....and The Word did not come as 'perfected flesh'. "The Father sent His son in the likeness of sinful flesh" born from a sinful woman and having a sin nature (no offense intended to my Catholic friends). A 'nature' which the man Jesus never gave in to. He never sinned.
The only thing Jesus had over US at His birth was 'the spirit' which the Father and the Holy Spirit gave to "the Word became flesh". And 'that spirit' was the 'Christ spirit'. And it was 'that spirit' which Jesus surrendered at the cross. And 'that' is the same spirit which is birth into everyone of us who is "born again". And it is when we are 'born again' that we are a "brethren" to our Lord Jesus who "was made like unto His brethren in every respect."
That's my "yes I believe in the trinity" POV. Upon His resurrection, the body of Jesus was no longer a body of sinful flesh. It became a 'spirit' body, capable of walking through walls. Today he sits beside the Father on a throne He shares as one being fully man and fully God.
I hope this gives you a bit more 'hope' for me and the 'litmus' of orthodoxy, as well as the right to be here on this forum.
All true Christ-followers should flee this twisted, heretical, and Non-Scriptural OP.
I don't have to look it up, but yes I considered that verse in coming to the 'revelation' IMO that I received from the Spirit of truth as I was led IMO to coming to the understanding I now have.haha... you are fine, that's trinitarian... With God all things are possible, including emptying Himself, and taking Himself back up again after...
He prayed, while still on earth for the Father to restore His glory to Him, remember? i can't think of enuff of the scripture to look it up
Yes, even more fleshly glory than Jesus had as mortal flesh. But the same earthly glory Moses manifested when he was "transfigured".... even as Jesus was "transfigured" on the mountain with the three apostles.and the Father said He will give Him even more glory...
something like that....
The 'key word' being WALK. And unfortunately Spirit should have never been capitalized in that verse because we're talking about 'the spirit of Christ in you the hope of glory'. And the spirit of Christ is not The Holy Spirit, but it most certainly is 'A holy spirit'. It is the same spirit Jesus surrendered to the Father on the cross. But in that verse translators correctly used the lower case. 'Oh consistency, thou art a jewel to be sought for.'but paul said 'you walk not according to the flesh, if indeed you have the Spirit of Christ in you...'
Absolutely.so obviously He is back to being God fully omni-everything.
Thank God, the peace that passes all understanding of the carnal mind has dealt with your 'nervousness'. Oh, BTW "stinking WEIRD" I, as a tongue talking Charismatic, expect to be called...but only by 'the nominally spiritual.so yeah, you make perfect sense, and i wasn't nervous at all lol just kidding, i was totally nervous! what with how URers are so stinkin' WEIRD about the trinity! lolol
I am curious as to your testimony brother. When did you come to fully accept UR, or Universalism (and FYI from now on I'm just going to type UR. 10 less keystrokes )? I know it took me 10 years of seeking 'the truth' of this doctrine? A doctrine which I only 'hoped' was true, during those years of seeking and knocking. How did you 'first hear' and how long to accept totally?Dear Ron: This is the deal. I have been a follower of the Lamb longer than you have been born. When you can come on this link and show us what is twisted, heretical and non- Scriptural we will engage you, Where shall we start?
[/quote][/QUOTE]I don't have to look it up, but yes I considered that verse in coming to the 'revelation' IMO that I received from the Spirit of truth as I was led IMO to coming to the understanding I now have.
Yes, even more fleshly glory than Jesus had as mortal flesh. But the same earthly glory Moses manifested when he was "transfigured".... even as Jesus was "transfigured" on the mountain with the three apostles.
The 'key word' being WALK. And unfortunately Spirit should have never been capitalized in that verse because we're talking about 'the spirit of Christ in you the hope of glory'. And the spirit of Christ is not The Holy Spirit, but it most certainly is 'A holy spirit'. It is the same spirit Jesus surrendered to the Father on the cross. But in that verse translators correctly used the lower case. 'Oh consistency, thou art a jewel to be sought for.'
LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.
Not the 'the Holy Spirit', not the 'God Spirit'. But the 'spirit of Christ' which dwelt in the triune man JESUS! And that was a holy spirit just like we; "he who is joined unto the Lord is ONE spirit."
Absolutely.
Thank God, the peace that passes all understanding of the carnal mind has dealt with your 'nervousness'. Oh, BTW "stinking WEIRD" I, as a tongue talking Charismatic, expect to be called...but only by 'the nominally spiritual.
One caveat; all the above is just my opinion...right or wrong. God knows.
OK, 'bunny trail run' is over, back to UR or Universalism and the point of the thread.
oh oh!! I want to answer this too... don't worry, i will make it short... ish.I am curious as to your testimony brother. When did you come to fully accept UR, or Universalism (and FYI from now on I'm just going to type UR. 10 less keystrokes )? I know it took me 10 years of seeking 'the truth' of this doctrine? A doctrine which I only 'hoped' was true, during those years of seeking and knocking. How did you 'first hear' and how long to accept totally?
I started a 'ditto' post like FL. But searched your 'profile' and found that I could not, you've aged better than I....but 'only unless' that hair is not dyed. But I do hope you can at least accept me as a 'brother in arms' (having seen in your Profile that we both served in Viet Nam in 1970). Even though we probably would disagree with plenty in 'that regard' also. I now kind of suspect you might have even been an 'officer' then, I was not. But there always seemed to be little bit of 'holier than thou' judgmental attitude there too, based upon my experience with officers....especially so with 'newbie' officers. It was they who 'thought' they were 'sharper' than lowly ole Spec 5 me...a rank achieved after being 'in this man's Army' just over a year. I hope that doesn't make me sound like I'm thinking more highly of myself than I ought. I just don't appreciate being judged more 'twisted, heretical, and Non-Scriptural' than I am either.All true Christ-followers should flee this twisted, heretical, and Non-Scriptural OP.
I am curious as to your testimony brother. When did you come to fully accept UR, or Universalism (and FYI from now on I'm just going to type UR. 10 less keystrokes )? I know it took me 10 years of seeking 'the truth' of this doctrine? A doctrine which I only 'hoped' was true, during those years of seeking and knocking. How did you 'first hear' and how long to accept totally?
Beautiful testimony. I've never read any of George Hawtin, other than those many quotes of his, from Preston. George McDonald I read a little of way back when, but mostly I heard of him from another brother who was reading his works. Back then our home church consisted of 'most' of those, who had left our home in western Kansas to trek across the state for a retreat in Arkansas. It was there that we first heard 'one' of the multiple speakers that weekend share 'the real gospel'. I believe I had 'the revelation' of the truth at that moment, in my heart of hearts. But being a 'thinker' I believe I honestly spent my 10 years of researching to convince myself as to how it was possible that 'the church' could have been so deceived. Of course, I did find support for the fact that in those first few centuries, most were not deceived and did believe, as we have come to believe.My brother: Many moons ago I walked with giants of faith in a fellowship that received hundreds of spiritual songs. A number pointed to a day when all creation was coming Home. Never once was the restitution of all things preached (although later I discovered there were those who did not feel free to do so). But we sang of the glory of a new glorious Day. The years went by when a young lad I had given the books of George Hawtin (the blue books) asked if I had considered the restitution of all things? I knew in that moment I did not need to consider it, it was part of what I was.
I worked building satellite earth stations around the world. My dear friend, and owner of the company had a precious mother who was a devout Baptist. She believed that hell was an eternal, non ending experience for the masses who have never had the intervention of being born again. My dear friend was absolutely pounding on her as I sat over in the corner praying for her in my heart.
The following day, I was alone in the CNN antenna site involved in a filthy job that required zero thought to accomplish. As I thought of the previous night, the Presence began to move upon me, I thought I am going to die. In that awesome moment I heard 6 words I had never ever remotely considered or heard relating to The Lake Of Fire. I trembled, unable to eat for days, as the glory continued on and on and on. 15 years went by and the man of God George MacDonald's unspoken sermons (The Consuming Fire) came into my hands. And there it was, written 100 years prior to my little experience. If you go to the final page of "the consuming fire" you will behold what the Living One disclosed to my broken life that wonderful day.
This is no feel good experience of a belief system, but a revelation that must come through the unction of the Glorious One! When I read of the path you have come by His grace, and others indeed, I am filled with the awe of our God who draws us to Himself! I am so grateful you are here on this link!
Beautiful testimony. I've never read any of George Hawtin, other than those many quotes of his, from Preston. George McDonald I read a little of way back when, but mostly I heard of him from another brother who was reading his works. Back then our home church consisted of 'most' of those, who had left our home in western Kansas to trek across the state for a retreat in Arkansas. It was there that we first heard 'one' of the multiple speakers that weekend share 'the real gospel'. I believe I had 'the revelation' of the truth at that moment, in my heart of hearts. But being a 'thinker' I believe I honestly spent my 10 years of researching to convince myself as to how it was possible that 'the church' could have been so deceived. Of course, I did find support for the fact that in those first few centuries, most were not deceived and did believe, as we have come to believe.
Thank you for your post, and the reminder that it still is going to require 'revelation from the Spirit of truth' to those still unable to see/hear. It is truly difficult to loosen one's grip on indoctrination, in order to even hear 'that still small voice' speaking through the 'winds of doctrines' that continue to blow today.
EPH 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
EDIT
P.S. define "spiritual songs" from your perspective. I know what that means from mine.
Take rest my friend, and know why I typically do not try to follow more than one thread. Especially when it's moving as fast as this one. In the lull here, and after getting home from the office, I went out and checked the forum. I found that I've missed a thread I'd truly like to have been in. It started three days ago and already has 15 pages of theological ET/Eternal Torment shuck and jive. Actually that's not true. It's just philosophical non scriptural shuck and jive to avoid answering the theological question you asked me to post. I just went and quickly checked a few more pages, and it doesn't look like you've been there either, or Clement, or Needshugs. Poor Inkfinger fighting alone, as far as I read, which is only the first page.My brother: My old being is exhausted at the moment. Tomorrow if any of my toes are still in this world I will attempt to address your post. Until then may Abba continue to expand all of us into Himself!
The Outcasts Comforted
The Outcasts Comforted by Elhanen Winchester
All believers love God and thankful for his mercy and salvation in Jesus Christ. But, we still read in scriptureYou must be kidding! Are you actually declaring the reason we follow God is out of fear? You, my friend, need to get rid of your present god fast!
All believers love God and thankful for his mercy and salvation in Jesus Christ. But, we still read in scripture
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Proverbs 2:5
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God."
Psalm 89:7
God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him."
Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom:..."
2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
Ephesians 5:21
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God."
Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;"
1 Peter 2:17
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king."
Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
Beautiful testimony. I've never read any of George Hawtin, other than those many quotes of his, from Preston. George McDonald I read a little of way back when, but mostly I heard of him from another brother who was reading his works. Back then our home church consisted of 'most' of those, who had left our home in western Kansas to trek across the state for a retreat in Arkansas. It was there that we first heard 'one' of the multiple speakers that weekend share 'the real gospel'. I believe I had 'the revelation' of the truth at that moment, in my heart of hearts. But being a 'thinker' I believe I honestly spent my 10 years of researching to convince myself as to how it was possible that 'the church' could have been so deceived. Of course, I did find support for the fact that in those first few centuries, most were not deceived and did believe, as we have come to believe.
Thank you for your post, and the reminder that it still is going to require 'revelation from the Spirit of truth' to those still unable to see/hear. It is truly difficult to loosen one's grip on indoctrination, in order to even hear 'that still small voice' speaking through the 'winds of doctrines' that continue to blow today.
EPH 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
EDIT
P.S. define "spiritual songs" from your perspective. I know what that means from mine.