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The 10 Commandments are done away!

jason1

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Keep betting, as Ezekiel18 is the passages I quote most in the OT part of the bible. You seem to be missing the point... the torah Moses laid out, doesn't offer David mercy for what he did, it damned him to death and so God obviously never used Moses' laws to enact Mercy: as there was none under Moses' laws for David; Moses' laws condemned David and through them David should be stoned and if that happened there would be no Christ; so therefore, God shows mercy and through mercy a New Covenant is brought forth, as through David, Christ is brought forth into this world.


Eze 18:21 “But the wrong1, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. Footnote: 1Similar passages in 3:18-21, 33:8-20.

Does David fit in here? He indeed received mercy because he repented.


Under Moses' Law, I think I already clearly showed, you have no forgiveness for the sins you've knowingly committed and no hope of forgiveness.
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Mercy is offered through Christ and prophesied through the Prophets who saw the need for Christ and God's mercy, as they knew the Torah of Moses offered no hope for Israel, but rather offered only condemnation and separation from God, which is something that you fail to see.

You are correct that mercy was offered through Messiah, big time mercy. I believe you are part right and part wrong with your statement. The torah serves multiple purposes:

1. Terms of the covenant
2. Path of obedience (and thus to the Father and life)
3. Reveals sin when we don't keep it
4. Shows that Elohim is set apart and flesh is weak and defiled.
5. Sets Israel apart from the rest of the nations

There is nothing wrong with torah at all, but the problem was the people who wouldn't keep it. The new covenant came not to replace the laws, but to help the people keep them through a helper and ingraining those commandments on our hearts so that we love and do them. It also offers us a better mediator than mortal humans.

Rom 7:12 So that the Torah truly is set-apart, and the command set-apart, and righteous, and good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Torah of Elohim1 according to the inward man


(Excellent posts BobRyan - spot on)
 
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Albion

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One of your own pro-sunday posters on this section of the board...



He seems to consider that threads such as this one and its OP -- are so little regarded by mainstream pro-sunday scholarship as to hardly be noticed.
No, he "seems to consider that" your questions have been answered several times over, so that there's no point it revisting them all again. ;)
 
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Sophrosyne

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No, he "seems to consider that" your questions have been answered several times over, so that there's no point it revisting them all again. ;)
That would be an understatement, his "Sunday scholars" topic has been spammed endlessly in this forum for years and years and years here with no argument that totally proves him wrong being credited as valid while he harps on that nobody has refuted him. It is hard to tell a deaf man who depends on hearing the truth.... the truth.
 
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BobRyan

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No, he "seems to consider that" your questions have been answered several times over, so that there's no point it revisting them all again. ;)

So then these questions have been answered?

3 easy questions --


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what LAW did Jeremiah and his readders know about as being God's LAW?

hint: It includes the LAW of God known to the authors of the "Baptist Confession of Faith", "The Westminster Confession of Faith", D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, Matthew Henry, C.H. Spurgeon, Andy Stanley)

===================

And ... might "you" consider this to be one of the better "answers"??

Jesus did not do away with the Commandments, even while he freed us from the consequences of failing to keep them 100% of the time. That's an important distinction.

But on the other hand, moving to Sunday worship is explicitly permitted, according to the New Testament
...
so it's not that the Christian churches are saying that keeping holy the Sabbath is of no importance anymore.
 
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BobRyan

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That would be an understatement, his "Sunday scholars" topic has been spammed endlessly in this forum for years and years and years here with no argument that totally proves him wrong...

You are talking to someone that posted this --

Jesus did not do away with the Commandments, even while he freed us from the consequences of failing to keep them 100% of the time. That's an important distinction.

But on the other hand, moving to Sunday worship is explicitly permitted, according to the New Testament
...
so it's not that the Christian churches are saying that keeping holy the Sabbath is of no importance anymore.


details matter -- as it turns out.
 
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disciple1

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It never ceases to amaze me how people don't read the bible. If one doesn't understand that the 10 commandments are done away they can not understand what Christ came to do.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The term "Christ" represents "the King of the Jews":
"Where is he that is born "King of the Jews"? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where "Christ" should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come "a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel".

Notice how Herod uses the term Christ synonymously with the term King of the Jews and how the chief priest and scribes respond to Herod's question of where the Christ is to be born (In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come "a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel"). It is clear that the term "Christ" was used to reference the anointed Heir to David's throne, the Messiah: the rightful heir to Rule God's people. If you are going to have a proper relationship with Jesus, you must relate to him as your Ruler: in obedience.

The 10 Commandments are absolutely done away as Jesus' Rule replaced the 10 Commandments.

The law is not a reference to the Torah, almost always the law is a reference to mankind's obligation to live right before God on any moral plain of existence. I know many of you that believe the Torah is still relevant are screaming inside yourself but let me ask you this question: why don't you stone adulterers to death as Moses commanded in the Torah?

For those of you that believe Paul's writings are inspired of God, why don't you believe Paul:

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones (what was written and engraved in stones? THE 10 COMMANDMENTS), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory (This is a reference to the 10 Commandments being the ministration of condemnation), much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious (Paul clearly is saying the 10 commandments are DONE AWAY), much more that which remaineth is glorious.

This isn't the only place Paul addresses this

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Paul says the first Covenant leads to bondage)
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman (The Law) and her son (And those who follow it): for the son of the bondwoman (those who follow the law) shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman (those who follow Christ).
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman (those who follow the law), but of the free.

Matthew 5:17 is very poorly written in English. Jesus was saying that he came to raise the standards of the law, not to lower them, but he didn't preach the Torah. If you think salvation is in the 10 commandments you have totally missed Jesus message: Jesus raised the standards of the law and replaced its teachings with a higher set of rules.
All we need to do is love.
Jeremiah chapter 22 verse 16
He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?”
declares the Lord.
 
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disciple1

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1Jn_2:4 The one who says, "I know Him," and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I don't know what your saying everyone sins and so do you, am I misunderstanding you.
Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as your self.
 
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jason1

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Who teaches this stuff? All we have to do is love? That is not what it says.

That is the SUMMATION of the law. That means if I dont kill my brother or steal from him it is an act of love. If I keep the sabbath on the 7th day that is an act of love towards my creator. (just a couple examples).

Emotional love is not what it is talking about there. The Creator requires that we live by every word coming out of His mouth and its a lot more than just "love" or "believe".
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Who teaches this stuff? All we have to do is love? That is not what it says.

That is the SUMMATION of the law. That means if I dont kill my brother or steal from him it is an act of love. If I keep the sabbath on the 7th day that is an act of love towards my creator. (just a couple examples).

Emotional love is not what it is talking about there. The Creator requires that we live by every word coming out of His mouth and its a lot more than just "love" or "believe".
Sadly, the universalist message is very appealing to people...
 
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disciple1

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Who teaches this stuff? All we have to do is love? That is not what it says.

That is the SUMMATION of the law. That means if I dont kill my brother or steal from him it is an act of love. If I keep the sabbath on the 7th day that is an act of love towards my creator. (just a couple examples).

Emotional love is not what it is talking about there. The Creator requires that we live by every word coming out of His mouth and its a lot more than just "love" or "believe".
If that's the case why do you sin, look at this.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own they did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
 
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disciple1

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Sadly, the universalist message is very appealing to people...
But no one has ever obeyed the law except Christ, and no one ever will, we don't have his strength and that's not what he wants anyway.
Galatians chapter 2
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[
 
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disciple1

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I'm not sure what your question is exactly. The verse you quoted says that the Jews tried to attain righteousness through oral law and man-made religion. If they followed what the Creator told them to do then it would have been by faith and they would be blameless.
But they still would have sinned, as we all do.
And love is greater than faith.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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But no one has ever obeyed the law except Christ, and no one ever will, we don't have his strength and that's not what he wants anyway.
Galatians chapter 2
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[
No we cannot but through Christs Grace we are to strive for the mastery... what mastery do you think was Paul speaking of? It was our characters, sanctified into the image of Christ. He begins the work in us at redemption and completes it at resurrection...
Through Christ, all things are possible, even for us to be as Enoch, Moses, Abraham, the Apostles... day by day walking with God.
 
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jason1

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So you are saying it is ok to steal, kill and destroy now as long as you have love in your heart?

Its ok to be gay because that is the ultimate expression of love? (yark)

Its ok to covet someone's wife for even more love?

Its ok to break the sabbath because you "love" sunday?

Its ok to love an idol?

Its ok to make love potions and practice astrology based in love?

Its ok to eat pork because you "love" it?

Are not ALL of these blasphemies?
 
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disciple1

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So you are saying it is ok to steal, kill and destroy now as long as you have love in your heart?

Its ok to be gay because that is the ultimate expression of love? (yark)

Its ok to covet someone's wife for even more love?

Its ok to break the sabbath because you "love" sunday?

Its ok to love an idol?

Its ok to make love potions and practice astrology based in love?

Its ok to eat pork because you "love" it?

Are not ALL of these blasphemies?
I THINK YOU HAVE SEX CONFUSED WITH LOVE.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Romans chapter 7 starting with verse 4
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
 
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disciple1

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Galations = oral law = man-made religion (Paul wasn't talking about torah)

Romans 7 = 1 particular law = law of remarrage = Jesus's act of redemption


Rom_3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.
But what you forget is you don't obey the law.
2 Corinthians chapter 3
4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
 
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disciple1

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So you are saying it is ok to steal, kill and destroy now as long as you have love in your heart?

Its ok to be gay because that is the ultimate expression of love? (yark)

Its ok to covet someone's wife for even more love?

Its ok to break the sabbath because you "love" sunday?

Its ok to love an idol?

Its ok to make love potions and practice astrology based in love?

Its ok to eat pork because you "love" it?

Are not ALL of these blasphemies?
Its ok to eat pork because you "love" it?
It is OK to eat pork.
 
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