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ROC Declares War Against ISIS A 'Holy Battle'

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by St Herman's Ghost, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I almost didn't reply, as this thread has gone on, and more in its intended direction. But the truth is, I think sometimes a great deal of money is spent, in cases where one student may have a specialist teacher assigned only to them, all day every day, along with other professionals working on their behalf. Sometimes much more than is needed is spent (but I'm not really in a position to judge, as I have no more than a few days' contact with the students, though I do have a background in psychology and child development). And sometimes serious needs are not well met. It's not all bad. Sometimes they get it right as well, but those cases where there is great disparity stand out. And I see no real cause - it does not run along socioeconomic or district or racial lines. I suspect it probably has to do with the person in charge at each location and the budget allocated - that makes the most sense anyway.

    But I only meant t reply out of politeness. I don't mean to derail the thread on this very minor point.
     
  2. Trying_to_be_Orthodox

    Trying_to_be_Orthodox Newbie

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    @St Herman's Ghost
    why would the Patriarch and others use such - I didnt find information that Patriach used these words. If ya have link - give it to me,pls.
    @Holy war: There is one person - Vsevolod Chaplin. He is not last person in ROC hierarchy. He said (word to word translation http://gordonua.com/news/worldnews/...-Borba-s-terrorizmom-svyashchenna-100158.html):
    "Fight with terrorism, for the fair world, for dignity of people,which are treated by terror, - its very moral, if you want, saint/holy(in meaning: righteous) fight, and our country is, may be, most active power in world, which resist terror,nowadays."
    Very adequate journalists translate it like "ROC declares war to ISIS". Ok. Let it be ;)
     
  3. Cappadocious

    Cappadocious Well-Known Member

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    In any case, the requirements for Just War have not been met.
     
  4. St Herman's Ghost

    St Herman's Ghost Orthodoxy or Death

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    I would like to update this thread with the news that the US has declared it will not clear the skies for the Russian military, it will continue all present military operations in Syria and there is now increasing concerns of American-backed "rebel forces" (read: Dr Evil quotations) clashing with the Russian military.
     
  5. St Herman's Ghost

    St Herman's Ghost Orthodoxy or Death

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    The systematic genocide of our Christian brethren doesn't fit the requirements? It's not just Orthodox but also Catholic and Protestant folk as well. The fate of our shared faith in the region is quite literally hanging in the balance.
     
  6. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

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    A big help to much of the upheavals that are only advancing radical Islam and spreading death & destruction to nations like Nigeria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Syria etc. would seem to be the arrest and war crime trials of criminal USA presidents Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, & Obama. This should also include former vice presidents like Cheney & Gore and the current Biden and former & current secretary of states like Clinton & Kerry. Various other officials in this generation long apparatus of corruption, death, decadence need to be rooted out and put on trial for war crimes. I realize that this is impossible but seems to be a justifiable option.

    As an American, my secular stance is isolationist and nationalist. Whatever we could have or still might accomplish with humanitarian aid should always be pursued through non governmental organizations. Alleged high minded individuals who speak of building a fool's paradise in this world with their New World Orders or It Takes A Village do nothing but spread death & destruction to others.

    I guess someone might ask what would you do in the current situation with Syria, Iran, Russia, Israel etc. ? Opposing the so called nuclear "treaty" with Iran and leaving Syria alone except for humanitarian aid would seem to be the best policy. Naturally, everything is done ass backwards.


    We must remember what our Lord says about the world in John 16:33.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  7. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    The first thing that we Americans revealed within an hour of Russia's first strikes was, "they may not be targeting ISIS they are targeting CIA trained moderates".

    So we have admitted that we broke international law.
     
  8. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    How much of what we hear of Assad is Western propaganda?

    Whenever you speak to Syrians here in Australia, the love and respect they have for him is palpable, especially among the Christians.
    Personally, I put reports of barrel bombs being used against his own people in the same file as Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, because they are diametrically opposed to the views presented by people who met him and saw his efforts for the Syrian people in person.

    I was living in Greece when the effluent hit the ventilator in Kosovo, and I can say with complete confidence that most of what the Western media presented about Serbia was total fabrication. We were fed falsehoods about Iraq too, so why should I believe what we are being told by the media about Syria?
     
  9. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    There were not attacking Arabs, at the time. It was the Seljuk Turks who had conquered Arab lands, not Arabs who were threatening Asia Minor. And had the Crusaders actually focused on liberating Asia Minor the Crusades might rightly have been called a 'just war.' Unfortunately the Crusaders could not care less about Asia Minor; they marched right through it largely ignoring the Seljuks along the way and went straight to the Levant. If you call slaughtering all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, including the Jews who were herded into the synagogue which was then burned to the ground 'liberating' you have funny notion of liberation.

    And if you think that is what the Russians are doing in Syria you are as deluded about this as you were the Crusades. They are bombing all the rebel forces whether they are jihadists or not in order to keep Assad in power.


    So long dominated Asia Minor? The Seljuks had barely got there!

    Except it wasn't a fact. Muslims had never tried to stop Christians from going on pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Even back then people knew the value of a tourist dollar. But after the Seljuk Turks took to fighting among themselves Christians found themselves walking in to the middle of a war zone, and sometimes they got hurt.
     
  10. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    A lot of people don't realize that the Baath Party of Assad and Sadam was started by Arab Christians in the first place. That may be one of the reasons they are being targeted.
     
  11. Cappadocious

    Cappadocious Well-Known Member

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    Not according to Just War theory, no. You don't have to subscribe to Just War theory, but there it is. In fact, Just War theory could have been applied much earlier before the genocide started.
     
  12. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    We already know this, Putin said so in his Charlie Rose interview. He is not keeping it a secret or anything. Secondly ALL the rebels against Assad are indeed terrorist. Have you not been reading the news these past few years? Here is what General Petraeus has said just a few short weeks ago:
    David Petraeus pitches plan to use al Qaeda in ISIS fight - NY Daily News

    Charlie Rose needs to take a break. He has been used to push an agenda, and has been utterly embarrased in the past few weeks. He knows his reputation as an independant journalist has taken a bruising. Here are three headlines written after his 60 minute interview with Putin:

    Putin Demolishes Neocon Mouthpiece Charlie Rose On 60 Minutes | SOTN: Alternative News & Commentary
    Putin Knocks Charlie Rose and Other NWO Agents Out in a Second! | Veterans Today
    Kunstler Rages "Perhaps America Has Gotten What It Deserves" | Zero Hedge

    Thats the thing, the propaganda is so visible now that you cant take anything the supposed 'good guys' say as serious. After Syria gave up their chemical weapons it was revealed that the strain used on the civillians could not have come from the Syrian army!
    Let me give you one other example, that angered many people yet maybe untrue. Kayla Mueller was a U.S. hostage most likely killed by collateral damage when a Jordanian fighter jet bombed an ISIS facility.
    Later on the story changed saying she was personally raped by the ISIS leader Caliph Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi. Besides the story being odd such as having this guy traveling to have sex with her like a common john going to a brothel. It says he forcibly married her and the story gets a bit sketchy etc. Everyone involved with this Harem was captured and ended up dead except for Baghdadi of which they were not even able to find a lead for his whereabouts. This is a man which we only from a few photos. He seems to be so elusive, no one knows where he is, etc etc. Now take a look at this news article from the prestigious New York Times written in July 2007: (notice this article is of one called abu rashid al baghdadi not abu Bakr al-baghdadi
    Leader of Al Qaeda group in Iraq was fictional, U.S. military says - NYTimes.com

    In 2014 article it is said this Al-Baghdadi (and probable fictional character) was killed and his successor became another (previously unknown) man also named al Baghdadi who is even more elusive:
    Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi formerly a U.S. captive - Washington Times
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  13. St Herman's Ghost

    St Herman's Ghost Orthodoxy or Death

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    This, I remember when I was covering this for a couple of labor/Anarchist zines there being evidences that would suggest the chemical weapons were used by al-Qaeda/Free Syrian Army as a false flag operation in order to ramp up Western backing against Assad which the American government happily lapped up like the mangy dogs they are.

    Assad fanboyism? If Assad was the leader of say Greece or the US or something I would be highly critical however considering the situation and context, strategically he must be supported. Both as a national liberation struggle against Western imperialism but also the lesser of two evils as ISIS is clearly the 'dog with rabies in the room.'

    I mean some posters here have pointed to US involvement in the conflict reaching 4 years now. 5 years ago people were accusing me of hysteria claiming that ISIS and the rebels must be crushed immediately using 'extreme prejudice.' Now here we are, ISIS controls huge amounts of land and is now more of a threat than other puppet, al-Qaeda! Whom we also funded, backed and trained!

    Rather have that mousey twit Assad than Christian genocide, but that's just me. Every military engagement in history has had politico-economic facets to it. Take even the Israelites conqueroring of the land of Ca'anan. So what?

    What about when our Lord commanded time Israelites to wipe these people all of the face of the Earth? Every man, woman, children; in fact, God said not to even let their livestock live. What about that and this 'just war' theory?

    "But they said: Nothing. Then said he unto them: But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip; and he that hath not, let him sell his coat, and buy a sword."-Gospel according to St. Luke 22:36, Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  14. Cappadocious

    Cappadocious Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 1:1-2
     
  15. St Herman's Ghost

    St Herman's Ghost Orthodoxy or Death

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    "Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword."-Gospel according to St Mathhew, 10:34, Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims

    "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. Wherefore he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the contrite of heart, To preach deliverance to the captives, and sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of reward.

    And when he had folded the book, he restored it to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.

    And he began to say to them: This day is fulfilled this scripture in your ears."-Gospel according to St Luke, 4:18-21, Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims.

    "But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.

    Wherefore he saith: Ascending on high, he led captivity captive; he gave gifts to men.

    Now that he ascended, what is it, but because he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"-Ephesians, 4:7-9, Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims.

    "He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

    For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names:

    That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

    And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father."-Phillipians, 2:8-11, Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims.

    "Although one is not supposed to kill, the killing of the enemy in time of war is both a lawful and praiseworthy thing. This is why we consider individuals who have distinguished themselves in war as being worthy of great honors, and indeed public monuments are set up to celebrate their achievements. It is evident, therefore, that at one particular time, and under one set of circumstances, an act is not permissible, but when time and circumstances are right, it is both allowed and condoned."-St Athanasius, The Letter of St Athanasius to Amun.
     
  16. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    two of the seminarians here last year said the same thing, and both are from the Middle East (one being one of the Patriarch of Jerusalem's subdeacons).
     
  17. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Indeed he has not. His forces have imprisoned Syriac nationalists and raided Syriac political organizations, however. The truth is that those who see him as more pro-Christian tend to be Arabists anyway, which fits your communion better than mine (so perhaps you'll find more Assad loyalists among EO than OO, but there are probably enough in both because everybody recognizes he's better than the Islamists). Still, you'd have to be crazy to think that a secular leader should be removed when the alternatives really are the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS, and the like.
     
  18. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    I'm a Middle East Historian by profession. My colleague and friend Dr. Will McCants just literally wrote the book on ISIS:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-ISIS-Apocalypse-Strategy-Doomsday/dp/1250080908



    Ahem. Rebel groups in Syria are not limited to al-Qaeda or ISIS. What about the Free Syrian Army? Aside if by terrorist you mean the deliberate targeting of non-combatants, Assad has done more than his share of that.

    Source?

    What I heard is that in 2015 the OPCW-UN Joint Mission in Syria disclosed previously undeclared traces of sarin and VX precursor compounds in a military research site where use of those compounds had not been previously declared.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...linked-chemicals-at-Syrian-military-site.html
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...-syria-chemicals-exclus-idUSKBN0NT1YR20150508

    I'm not sure what the point is in the rest of your post. Are you trying to deny that al-Baghdadi even exists?
     
  19. ALoveDivine

    ALoveDivine Saved By Grace

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    If the Assad regime falls, what kind of regime do you imagine will take its place? I would wager that most of the FSA are Islamist as well, though granted perhaps less extreme than Al-Nusra and ISIS. Regardless, I have a hard time imagining that a rebel regime would be pluralistic or tolerate of non-Muslims. More like an oppressive Islamist dictatorship.

    Quite frankly I think a secular dictatorship is preferable to an Islamist dictatorship.
     
  20. St Herman's Ghost

    St Herman's Ghost Orthodoxy or Death

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    By terrorist we mean Islamist theocratic lunatics to be precise.

    ISIS/FSA/Al-Nusra/Al-Qaeda ain't got no humanity, why they're the foot soldiers of a Jew-hatin', mass murderin' maniac and they need to be dee-stroyed.

    image.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
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